Aer Lingus threatens to suspend all pilots

el tel

To all those against the pilots' stance and against the unions:

All I can say is that if you were a pilot you'd take the same stance as your colleagues. You really have no appreciation of the issues involved and their future implications.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

omega man

I admire the group in general as they will not only defend their own conditions but that of future collegues. Many groups or sections within a company will sell each other out in a flash as long as 'Im ok' or 'is there something in it for me' types of attitude!

FlutterinBantam

Gentlemen...bit of sense here please.

Those kind of attitudes smack of the crew of the Titanic refusing to do anything even though it was perfectly obvious that the ship was sinking.

What the pilots were defending was stuff that would be fine back in the 1950s when air transport was a state run cartel and prices were relatively high.

It would be like Dunnes stores opening 0900-1700 Monday to Saturday and closing on Sunday.

Where would that get them in todays marketplace.??... Well done Omega.. what you say...Bankrupt sir ...yes bankrupt,thats the answer.

gentlemen check your calendars...2007... AD that the year we live in now.

have a good day now y'hear:cool:

Tenger

Muggy Dev wrote: »

We also know that the "auld" civil service idiom of seniority over ability will apply when it comes to promotions ....QUOTE]


Seniority does not mean automatic promotion. In EI you are "eligible for command" based on your seniority. You spend 2 months preparing then 1 month being tested. If you pass you become a captain. If you fail you must repeat within 12 months. If you don't repeat or fail again you do not get another chance,you can never be a captain. As with most commercial pilots the EI cockpit crew are constantly being tested, someone cannot fool the system to get promoted over a 'better' colleague.
EI only hire prospective 'captains' so your saying that merit is ignored is a misunderstanding of how pilots are promoted.

Muggy Dev

Bramble wrote: »

so your saying that merit is ignored is a misunderstanding of how pilots are promoted.

Neither said or suggested that.Read my post again.

Tenger

Muggy Dev wrote: »

Not quite true Foggy.We know that for all future bases outside Ireland the pilots will be represented by IALPA.We also know that the "auld" civil service idiom of seniority over ability will apply when it comes to promotions ( which would have been a hard one to swallow) but notwithstanding secondment, local terms and conditions and defined contribution pensions will apply.

I'm sorry but this sounds to me like you are saying that you get promoted based on your seniority not your ability.

In an airline there are no comparisons based on whether pilot A is 'better than pilot B. Their actions are so tightly controlled that personal aptitude very rarely comes into it. Different pilots can be seen as 'better' than others in certain things but these are not things that are counted when it comes to promotion (giving info to passengers) And as I stated any pilot who is underperforming in their regular simulator trials is shown the door or told they will never get a chance to make captain in EI.

FlutterinBantam

Is it not true that if pilot A and pilot B join EI on the same day,and if pilot B gets a command lhs job,say after 12 yrs,pilot A goes on the same pay scale,even if still a co-pilot.

highlydebased

Pilots have just voted 80% in favour of moving Shannon's LHR services to BFS.

Foggy43

A harsh way of putting it!

With the revelations from the Irish Examiner over the last 48 hours it looks as though you, Neon-Circles, may very well be correct.

jackofalltrades

Bramble wrote:

I'm sorry but this sounds to me like you are saying that you get promoted based on your seniority not your ability.

I'm going to have to agree with Bramble on this one the. They way your post was formatted and given your fairly one-sided pro-management stance in this thread your comments could easily be construed as implying that ability took a very second place to seniority, especially given the fact that you compared it to the civil service's way of promoting people.

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Is it not true...

If you can back your statement up with concrete proof then its true, otherwise its innuendo.

Tenger

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Pilots have just voted 80% in favour of moving Shannon's LHR services to BFS.

Would it not be more correct to say the pilots have agreed a system to allow EI to open foreign bases,the first of which is Belfast. That statement sounds like an Irish Indo headline!!!!!!

FlutterinBantam

Would it not be more correct to say "Pilots have reached an agreement with Aer Lingus on the opening of foreign bases"

There are more stakeholders in Aer Lingus than the pilots,a fact usually forgotten by them;)

Tenger

I was trying to say that the pilots have no say in moving services from SNN to BFS. Their agreement does however facilitate the management team doing so.