Muppets

eroo

no,not the popular tv show.i used this title because its the cleanest way of describing the people out there on bebo/myspace who have pics of IRA/CIRA/RIRA/INLA on their profiles or who become 'fans' of these 'bands' supporting terrorist scumbags.now i wouldnt mind if they knew a bit about the 'Ra' and had come to the conclusion that they supported their ideals but they only do it because of the whole 'bash the brits and blow them to bits' and 'english grrrrr..' sort of ****e.basically,because they think its cool.id just love to slap 'em!!they know nothing.
now i am very proud of the Old IRA(war of independence)and all of the men+women who took part in the fight for our freedom throughout the centuries.i am a peace loving patriotic guy and am delighted with the peace process.ive read a lot about the PIRA etc,and i cant stand them.bunch of money laundering,fuel smuggling,murderin' gangsters!!anyway,it jusy annoys me to see 14/15 year olds who have IRA albums etc on their profiles,yet ask them about 'Narrow Water' and you'll get the reply,'i dont do chemistry'

rant over:o
eroo

Shutuplaura

Hi, just to clarify before I ask, I don't support the IRA but I don't hate them either. I also love the peace process and all that and long may it last.

Anyway, With that out of the way why do you look on the PIRA as being any different to the 'Old' IRA or the United Irishmen in 1798? How can you wholly support one and not the other?

By the way, yeah mindless Up the 'Ra heads are annoying, republicans I know dislike them as much as you seem to.

the_syco

Used to like the 'RA, but not as much now. Mainly 'cos I found that they were as bad as the politicians that I dislike, in their bribery, protection scheme's, etc. Still have respect for how they went about most of their activities (mortaring, bombings, sniping, etc), though.

As for the bebo muppets, they know nothing more than the patriotic legend that is spewed by the Shinners. One of bombing the Brits, of "going against the system", among other things.

Meh. Mindless 'RA heads are annoying, but once they do their LC, they usually snap out of it (more recent info in History class, than "the IRB kicked out the brits").

Oh, and OP, they both (IRB & PIRA) got guns. And neither of them were all that rich, so you have to wonder where they got their funds.

Fratton Fred

I think four of them won't be updating their bebo sites for a while, not until they get out of Derry prison anyway.:rolleyes:

It reminds me of Britain in the 80s where kids thought it was cool to write NF everywhere, when in reality they had absolutely no idea what it was the National front stood for.

Erin Go Brath

So long as there is still serious concerns about policing in Northern Ireland, the paras such as CIRA etc will attain a degree of legitimacy from some quarters.

There are currently serious concerns about policing in some places, for example Portadown. The SDLP's Policing Board member, Dolores Kelly MLA, has publicly decsribed PSNI inaction there as 'scandalous' and has said that she has viewed CCTV footage which clearly shows loyalists sitting on top of a Catholic man and punching him with both fists before getting up and jumping on his head. A second Catholic man was attacked with a broken bottle. She added: "A Police Land Rover was parked at the top of the street when the men were attacked and the officers did not intervene."

In a very telling statement, the Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition has described sectarian attacks on two young Catholic men in Portadown at the weekend (October 6) as a direct product of unacceptable, partisan policing. It is understood by the GRRC that the Police Ombudsman's office is now investigating PSNI's response in the lead up to, during, and after both attacks. Video footage, which captures these incidents, was handed over directly to investigators from the Police Ombudsman's office by the owner of a local business premises on Monday.

It's anger from ordinary people who are subjected to this lack of police protection that gives these paramiliatries a measure of support, and ultimately is their raison d'être. If policing was sorted, they could have no excuses!

Fratton Fred

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

So long as there is still serious concerns about policing in Northern Ireland, the paras such as CIRA etc will attain a degree of legitimacy from some quarters.

There are currently serious concerns about policing in some places, for example Portadown. The SDLP's Policing Board member, Dolores Kelly MLA, has publicly decsribed PSNI inaction there as 'scandalous' and has said that she has viewed CCTV footage which clearly shows loyalists sitting on top of a Catholic man and punching him with both fists before getting up and jumping on his head. A second Catholic man was attacked with a broken bottle. She added: "A Police Land Rover was parked at the top of the street when the men were attacked and the officers did not intervene."

In a very telling statement, the Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition has described sectarian attacks on two young Catholic men in Portadown at the weekend (October 6) as a direct product of unacceptable, partisan policing. It is understood by the GRRC that the Police Ombudsman's office is now investigating PSNI's response in the lead up to, during, and after both attacks. Video footage, which captures these incidents, was handed over directly to investigators from the Police Ombudsman's office by the owner of a local business premises on Monday.

It's anger from ordinary people who are subjected to this lack of police protection that gives these paramiliatries a measure of support, and ultimately is their raison d'être. If policing was sorted, they could have no excuses!

That's a fair point, policing in NI has always been "Selective". The trouble the PSNI are going to have, is that every time they fail Catholics, it will be classed as sectarian and to an extent, the OSNI are going to have to go overboard to win back the confidence of the Catholic community. (Which will no doubt lead to the loyalists crying foul:rolleyes:)

I don't think that has anything to do with these "Muppets" though, as their support to CIRA etc is probably more of a macho penis extension type thing than a genuine concern for the people of the Garvaghy Road.

Erin Go Brath

Yeh, "the muppets" in question that can be seen singing 'up the ra' from time to time around town are probably trying to look like hard men in front of people.........bunch of eejits tbh. I wouldn't spend time worrying about them, the fad will pass when they reach 17.


As for the ops hatred of IRA etc. Understandable considering some of the stuff that has passed. The PSNI get my wrath more though, because they are after all supposed to protect the community. There will always be "terrorists" or "law breakers" of some description around, and in the North Republican/Loyalist terrorists won't dissapear altogether overnight after decades of unrest. If the supposed upholders of law and order are corrupt though its a much more serious situation. That situation would need to be sorted first before the paramilitary problems decrease significantly.

eroo

well,my problem with the IRA is this:back in the WOI they werent selling weapons to criminal gangs or drugs to the populus(i know,time difference).my point is back then they were fighting for something whole-heartedly.nowadays,they are smuggling cigarettes and drugs to make money.also,a perfect example of how greedy they are is how 'Slab' Murphy is worth an estimated 58 million euro,but obviously he cant really touch it or the ARA or CAB will be on him.
also,i know they started out protecting catholics etc, but they were different times,i understand that.but i just cant stand all the violence they used and it got them very little politically.as we can all agree,i wish the troubles had never happened.also,i didnt start this thread to see who supports them and who doesnt,just wanted to see what ye all thought about the muppets!

McArmalite

eroo wrote: »

no,not the popular tv show.i used this title because its the cleanest way of describing the people out there on bebo/myspace who have pics of IRA/CIRA/RIRA/INLA on their profiles or who become 'fans' of these 'bands' supporting terrorist scumbags.now i wouldnt mind if they knew a bit about the 'Ra' and had come to the conclusion that they supported their ideals but they only do it because of the whole 'bash the brits and blow them to bits' and 'english grrrrr..' sort of ****e.basically,because they think its cool.id just love to slap 'em!!they know nothing.
now i am very proud of the Old IRA(war of independence)and all of the men+women who took part in the fight for our freedom throughout the centuries.i am a peace loving patriotic guy and am delighted with the peace process.ive read a lot about the PIRA etc,and i cant stand them.bunch of money laundering,fuel smuggling,murderin' gangsters!!anyway,it jusy annoys me to see 14/15 year olds who have IRA albums etc on their profiles,yet ask them about 'Narrow Water' and you'll get the reply,'i dont do chemistry'

rant over:o
eroo

" the people out there on bebo/myspace who have pics of IRA/CIRA/RIRA/INLA on their profiles " Sorry, but can someone tell me, what this posting is doing on a history site ?

As for 'Narrow Water', as the slogans in Derry read - " 13 dead but not forgotten, we got 19 paras and Mountbatten". The IRA's finest hour.

eroo

well,seeing as the IRA have played a massive role to our history,i thought it would be good to address young peoples ignorance of HISTORY!

The guy

eroo wrote: »

well,seeing as the IRA have played a massive role to our history,i thought it would be good to address young peoples ignorance of HISTORY!

Because you have quizzed every young person on their history knowledge.

Shutuplaura

eroo wrote: »

well,my problem with the IRA is this:back in the WOI they werent selling weapons to criminal gangs or drugs to the populus(i know,time difference).my point is back then they were fighting for something whole-heartedly.nowadays,they are smuggling cigarettes and drugs to make money.also,a perfect example of how greedy they are is how 'Slab' Murphy is worth an estimated 58 million euro,but obviously he cant really touch it or the ARA or CAB will be on him.
also,i know they started out protecting catholics etc, but they were different times,i understand that.but i just cant stand all the violence they used and it got them very little politically.as we can all agree,i wish the troubles had never happened.also,i didnt start this thread to see who supports them and who doesnt,just wanted to see what ye all thought about the muppets!

I mentioned that to get it out of the way becasue I'm sure someone would accuse me of being a IRA supporter if i didn't, leading to a boring and a besides the point agrument.

Regards giving out about muppets - young people are generally more radical than older people, hardly worth starting a post in the history section about. I find bar stool republicans more tiresome. As someone said, all they are good for is buying An Phoblachet when they are all jarred up and ready to fight the good fight.

I asked you about the difference between the modern IRA and the Good Old IRA becasue I think its a load of ****e to be frank, making clear cut distinctions betweeen the two. Slab is aparently making a living from the troubles and I'm sure he's not the only one but it did last a long time and people are nothing but great innovators when it comes to making money. Also, The 'Old IRA' did look after its own, fighters got paid, generally liked throwing their weight around and looked after their own for decades after the war ended. From being made TD's to council houses and pensions. They were yong and full of beans and knew there was a bit of glamour attached to being a revolutionary. They robbed banks and in the end what did we get but a free state which was only a dominion. I really don't see the difference. Some of them were still in the Dail in the 1960's doing very little but cashing their generaous TD checks. Not much different to smuggling fags or diesal if you ask me. I admire whatn you call the Old IRA so I can't condemn the PIRA.

Also, When did the Old IRA end? Was it the Old IRa who conducted the border campeing or the mainland campaign of the 1930's/40's? If not why not?

Finally, regarding their involvment in the Drugs trade - I don't see how they could have kept support in certain areas in the north and been heavily involved. I'm open to correction but has it ever been proven that the organisation rather than a few individuals on their own initiative have been involved?

McArmalite

eroo wrote: »

well,seeing as the IRA have played a massive role to our history,i thought it would be good to address young peoples ignorance of HISTORY!

" ive read a lot about the PIRA etc,and i cant stand them.bunch of money laundering,fuel smuggling,murderin' gangsters!! "

I'm sure you have, . Did it ever occur to you that many of these young people might be from the occupied counties and know a lot more about the IRA than you do ?

Ever been to say, Ardoyne, the Falls, the Bogside, Crossmaglen, Keady etc where in these areas most of the families would have had a family relation who was in the Provos ??? Many may not want to talk in depth to you, many will revere the Provos, some will hate them. But ever actually personally known someone invovled and asked their experiences under the unionist state/ 'impartial' brit 'peace keeping', what tipped them over the line to join up, were they sorry, would they do it again etc ???

eroo

fair enough McArmalite.i understand your opinion differs from mine,i respect that!i respect the opinoins of the people who lived through the Troubles,but i have no time for southern pro-Ra's or there 'comrades' over in the US who support/ed the republican movement without ever steppin foot in NI!what im trying to say is this;if you live/have lived in NI then your view on things can be taken seriously,again,i respect that.but for people who donate money to the 'cause' yet have no idea whats going in NI estates,i have absolutely no time for.also,i dont claim to know either but from docu's and news etc,its an extremely complex place,always has been,always will be.it just annoys me to see scangers from cork or limerick or dublin with republican pics and sectarian ****e who have no idea what the situ is really like 'up north' and if put up there they wouldnt be shouting 'prods' or 'up the ra',they'd **** their pants!
also,provos in the south;majority of em are criminals.in 80's/90's they were more interested in robbing banks and doing dodgy dealings with gangs and now they are 'leasing' out their weapons 'skills' i.e. assassins and bombers.at least northern provos(most of em i suppose)were fighting for something they believed in...thats my 2 cent anyway,btw mods if you want this thread moved or closed,i have no problems!

eroo

McArmalite

eroo wrote: »

fair enough McArmalite.i understand your opinion differs from mine,i respect that!i respect the opinoins of the people who lived through the Troubles,but i have no time for southern pro-Ra's or there 'comrades' over in the US who support/ed the republican movement without ever steppin foot in NI!what im trying to say is this;if you live/have lived in NI then your view on things can be taken seriously,again,i respect that.but for people who donate money to the 'cause' yet have no idea whats going in NI estates,i have absolutely no time for.also,i dont claim to know either but from docu's and news etc,its an extremely complex place,always has been,always will be.it just annoys me to see scangers from cork or limerick or dublin with republican pics and sectarian ****e who have no idea what the situ is really like 'up north' and if put up there they wouldnt be shouting 'prods' or 'up the ra',they'd **** their pants!
also,provos in the south;majority of em are criminals.in 80's/90's they were more interested in robbing banks and doing dodgy dealings with gangs and now they are 'leasing' out their weapons 'skills' i.e. assassins and bombers.at least northern provos(most of em i suppose)were fighting for something they believed in...thats my 2 cent anyway,btw mods if you want this thread moved or closed,i have no problems!

eroo

Fair enough eroo, I've read some of your postings from other forums and I thought you'd be a decent enough sort to be honest. I'm not actually from the north, within a few miles of it, loads of relations from it etc. ( one of them, brother in law, a Protestant form the North. And I said a Protestant, not a unionist. To equate Protestantism with unionism or Catholicism with nationalism is not just generalising, but helps to perpetuate the lies that the roots of the conflict are about religion). Republicanism obivilously in my veins etc. Yeah I too hate the "oooh, ahhh up the rah " crowd, absoulutely useless. Wear Premiership soccer shirts, smoke Johnny Blue, read the Star and the Sun and shout " up the Rah " when half drunk, the more drunk the louder.

I don't blame anyone for thinking my views are extreme, the views I post mainly on this bord are for the benefit of His Majesty, the English unionist, and one or two bizarre 'nationalists', but because of Admin, I cann't go any further or I'll be banded yet again !!!!

The Provos did some terrible, unforgiveable things, no doubt about it. I don't expect you to change your views on them, but well, all I'll say is, maybe, have second thoughts and examine much of the anti nationalist/republican 'Provos eat babies' black propaganda versus " British Squaddies - kinder than the Salvation Army " stuff thrown about this last 30 years or so.

But condemning them without condemning the other parties to the violence, the brits, RUC, UDR and their unoffical forces, the loyalists, not to mention the discrimination, thuggery and insults the nationalists suffered for 50 years before August 1969 is nothing but hypocritical and outright lies in the extreme. Condemning the Provos while ignoring the factors that caused them, not only angers me, but in commentating and analyising the situation while completely ignjoring the violence of the state, only covers up for the real cause of the violence.

A good book I'd recommend is 10 Men Dead. Written by the Manchester Guardian journalist David Beresford ( he's English, Irish mother ), it's about the 1981 hungerstrike, it gives a great insight into the factors and motivation that formed the membership of the Provisional IRA, love them or hate them, warts and all. A chilling book. ( Incidentally, he won journalist of the year when he wrote it).

eroo

im a big history fan,so i might look that book up!thanks for the heads up!
dont get me wrong,what was done to catholics and nationalists in the north(burnt out of their homes,gerrymandering and driven out of jobs)was terrible.bottom line:at least there is some degree of peace and may there in time be total peace!

eroo

the_syco

eroo wrote: »

at least there is some degree of peace and may there in time be total peace!

Until one side gets rid of the other, I can't see "real peace" ever happening. Esp as the RUC still seems to control the PSNI.

McArmalite

the_syco wrote: »

Until one side gets rid of the other, I can't see "real peace" ever happening. Esp as the RUC still seems to control the PSNI.

I have had a first hand experience of the PSNI a few months ago, motoring offence of which I was wrong and pleaded so in court. The point of my posting is, and others may well have experienced the secterianism from the PSNI that was indemic in the former RUC, but all I can say from my own experience ( and I'm not one of the Gerry is God bridgade,), to quote Adams - " It's about puttting manners on the RUC".

From my experience, Adams and co. certainly have put manners on them.

McArmalite

eroo wrote: »

im a big history fan,so i might look that book up!thanks for the heads up!
dont get me wrong,what was done to catholics and nationalists in the north(burnt out of their homes,gerrymandering and driven out of jobs)was terrible.bottom line:at least there is some degree of peace and may there in time be total peace!

eroo

Sound. Do Clare people take credit for Dev or do they blame him on the Americans these days . I'd say in your Grandparents days, Dev was a God down in the Banner

Jackie laughlin

It is entirely inconsistent to condemn today's IRA and refuse to condemn the "old" IRA. Indeed failure to condemn the original article probably contributed to the creation and maintenance of the modern version. Sure there are more ordinary, decent, criminals among the present lot but that is a SLIGHT redeeming feature in that they are not all mindless "patriots", some at least are calculating criminals.

It is virtually impossible to oppose IRA violence without being accused of being soft on British or Unionist violence. This kind of reaction is just dishonest argument which seeks to deflect blame.

The heroes of N.I. are those who suffered discrimination, abuse and thuggery and sided with civil rights agitation and later the SDLP.

The murder of Mountbatten was one the IRA's more sordid little crimes: They blew up a British oul fella on holidays in Sligo - and lest we forget they blew up a child as well.

eroo

McArmalite wrote: »

Sound. Do Clare people take credit for Dev or do they blame him on the Americans these days . I'd say in your Grandparents days, Dev was a God down in the Banner

well,im a Collins man so i cant stand Dev.but my relatives did love him yes.im sure i'll be disowned for being a Collins man,like i give a ****e!
Dev was most popular in West Limerick,which is where he lived.i seem to be the only one with the sense to see how he ****ed this country by starting the Civil War with his infamous 'wade through Irish blood' speech in Killarney,with the end result of we losing Irelands greatest man:Michael Collins.thats why i dont support PIRA really,because id be a pro-Treaty man when looking back on history.i still believe if Collins had lived we would definitely have gotten the majority nationalist counties back,and in turn,economically,that would've forced the rest of the counties in to the Free State.simply because 3 counties couldnt survive on their own!
so thats why i REALLY dont support SF/IRA but hell,we all have our different views right?no better a place to express than on Boards

Capt'n Midnight

McArmalite wrote: »

As for 'Narrow Water', as the slogans in Derry read - " 13 dead but not forgotten, we got 19 paras and Mountbatten". The IRA's finest hour.

Let's not forget that the second bomb was for the evacuation helicopter that was expected to take the injured to hospital. Admittedly it did not have red cross on the side and I don't know if the injured were being loaded at the time. And they managed to go even lower with the proxy bomb.

It's been about money for a long time. Look at the way both sides were into drugs and split up the turf between them.

It's one thing for people living on the ground in the North to support the 'RA but what sickens me are those living safe away from the terror/repression supporting violence that will never threaten them.

eroo

Capt'n,couldnt agree more.those fools who say 'no surrender' and live in Tralee are a fine example of muppetry because the violence will never reach them...they will never experience it/knowwhat its like

Jackie laughlin

Eroo,
Collins was a murdering thug and the Irish state has whitewashed him. Today the Irish and British states are whitewashing SF/IRA.

eroo

i dont see how,as he never actually killed anyone.yes he did organise but it had a terrible effect on his health towards the end of his life.also,unlike SF/IRA he didnt hate his enemies,they were just on the 'other side' to him

eroo

Mr.Nice Guy

I too hate these sites as well as those videos on Youtube glorifying CIRA attacks with comments underneath saying, "God bless these heroes" and other such bullsh*t.

I wonder if these people are aware of what the Provos did to Patsy Gillespie, a Derry man who worked in a British Army canteen and was forced to drive a bomb into a British Army checkpoint, killing himself along with five soldiers. Or how about the Warrington bomb in 1993 in England which killed two boys, one 12 years old the other just 3 years old.

The descendants of Tone and Emmet? Bollocks they are.

Shutuplaura

Jackie laughlin wrote: »

Eroo,
Collins was a murdering thug and the Irish state has whitewashed him. Today the Irish and British states are whitewashing SF/IRA.

Isn't that the same as shouting "Up the Ra"? Another ill thought out slogan. Care to explain it? Also, out of interest, are you advocating a return to war and a military defeat of the provo's to avoid "whitewashing" them?

Erin Go Brath

Jackie laughlin wrote: »

Eroo,
Collins was a murdering thug and the Irish state has whitewashed him. Today the Irish and British states are whitewashing SF/IRA.

It was a war for Irish Sovereignty get over it!

Like Shutu, I'm curious what you mean by the Irish state has whitewashed Collins and are whitewashing SF/IRA as you put it, though its obvious to most people that the IRA has disbanded. Do tell?

Jackie laughlin

What does "Get over it" mean? Is it just yet another term for censorship?

The official position was that the "old" IRA were "good" and that the Provos were bad. The reality is that there is little to distinguish between the two. Adams and company with so much blood on their hands are now being touted as heroes.

When it is asked, "Would you prefer to go back to the violent days?", the threat is implicit: "Don't tell the truth about our past in case we return to violence!"

The truth is complex and should be told.

For the record, the IRA has not disbanded. When I asked on another thread what its purpose is now?, I was in essence told that its purpose is to enforce the peace process!!

Erin Go Brath

"Collins is a thug" is some statement to make in isolation, you have to admit. Next you'll be telling us the Black and Tans were a benelovent force doing good for Ireland. :rolleyes:

Collins fought smarter that previous generations of freedom fighters. He knew how to hit Britain where it hurted; to take out the G-men and introduce the flying columns to cause maximum mayhem and disruption to the British machine over here.

Yes it was a dirty war, but people wanted rid of Brit rule now more than ever after the massacres of 1916, and this was the most effective way of making it untenable for them to enforce their rule.

Collins is a hero for many, and I'm sure there's plenty of Britons who would put up their hand and say he was a worthy advesary, and have respect for what he achieved. It's sad that an Irish person would hold these views on a great hero.

eroo

i agree,to call him a thug shows you have no appreciation for our countrys history.if you did you'd realise he did things that he wasn't entirely proud of,but was willing to make that sacrifice.he won our independence.as for NI,i've already posted my views regarding that....

eroo