Are You Hoping For a HUGE property price drop?

The_Conductor

horgan_p wrote: »

until then we are renting a nice house not far from where we work , and i dont view rent as dead money because we have the use of the house for a lot less than the cost of a mortgage.

Well done to you- I wish other people had the same perspective. We have this hang-up with property ownership in this country, at all costs.

Hope you get a nice 3 bed somewhere- I was looking in Glanmire before it got over developed, glad I didn't buy there now though!

S.

jackal

Irish Property Myths:

* Rent is dead money
* People who did not buy are jealous they 'missed the boat'
* Ireland is different
* Economic migrants are here to stay, even through a downturn
* People in Ireland wont let their homes be repossesed
* If property prices fall, the sky will quickly follow
* Stamp duty is the cause of 'uncertainty' in the market
* There wont be a hard landing
* No one except doom mongers want to see prices fall
* We are the 2nd richest nation in the world
* Cant go wrong with bricks and mortar
* We are at the top of the interest rate cycle
* Economists expect the market to pick up in 20XX after the uncertainty about YYYY is cleared up
* The doom mongers have been wrong for the last X years, and they are still wrong.

goldenbrown

todays irish indo, www.unison.ie, high court judge tells banks that houses are difficult to sell at the moment, at the repo court, (47 properties) that aint urban myth baby thats on the record, .... the next step is - sellers waking up and smelling the coffee and reducing to more realistic levels...its their move, .. the party is over...;)

jackal

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/45-families-stand-to-lose-homes-as-banks-get-tough-in-high-court-1197815.html

Yes, the myths (and thats what they are) are all there to be busted. Theres 1 down... so bloody many to go...

digitally-yours

Some data just released

Eurozone annual inflation in September was 2.1% - above the target rate of the European Central Bank

Looks like interest rate rise is a good possibility.The inflation is still above target
that means borrowing needs to be controlled.

Interesting article and statistics

Eurozone annual inflation in September was 2.1% - above the target rate of the European Central Bank
By Finfacts Team
Oct 16, 2007, 11:14

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Eurozone1 annual inflation was 2.1% in September 20072, up from 1.7% in August. A year earlier the rate was 1.7%. Monthly inflation was 0.4% in September 2007.

EU3 annual inflation was 2.2% in September 2007, up from 1.9% in August. A year earlier the rate was 1.9%. Monthly inflation was 0.4% in September 2007.

These figures come from Eurostat, the Statistical Office of the European Union.

The September inflation rate was above the ECB's target of "below, but close to, 2%," for the first time since August 2006.

Sectors with the highest annual rates of inflation in September were education at 9.1% and alcohol and tobacco at 3.8%. Food prices rose at a 2.4% rate.

Inflation in the EU Member States

More here

eirmail

jackal wrote: »

Irish Property Myths:

* Rent is dead money
* People who did not buy are jealous they 'missed the boat'
* Ireland is different
* Economic migrants are here to stay, even through a downturn
* People in Ireland wont let their homes be repossesed
* If property prices fall, the sky will quickly follow
* Stamp duty is the cause of 'uncertainty' in the market
* There wont be a hard landing
* No one except doom mongers want to see prices fall
* We are the 2nd richest nation in the world
* Cant go wrong with bricks and mortar
* We are at the top of the interest rate cycle
* Economists expect the market to pick up in 20XX after the uncertainty about YYYY is cleared up

My List
* interest on a depreciating roperty is dead money if it is more than the rent of that property.
* People who bought at the top of the market are now horrified at what they did.
* Ireland is not different
* Economic migrants will move if contitions are better else where.
* When property prices stop falling we will as a nation reprioritise the money we invest and it will be good for the country in the long run.
* there is no uncertainty in the market , it is certain the longer you wait to buy the more you save.
* There has never been a soft landing
* We might have been the second richest in perceived financial wealth in the world at the height of our housing
bubble. This wealth dropped by 14 percent in the first 6 months of this year according to the department of environment.
* Can go wrong with bricks and motar just read todays paper about the repossessions in court.
* We will be at the top of the interest rate cycle once interest rates come down .
Economists expect the market to pick up in 20XX after price **** hit rock bottom

goldenbrown

for a small period while over recent centuries - tulips and rubber were more valuable than gold by weight....the same applies to the prices Dublin 3bed semi d's sold for in recent years...the builders will reduce to clear what they are building now to avoid huge interest payments, auctioneers like house sales regardless of price reached, and they will encourage any price to keep water in the water cooler and the lights on...it had to end at some point and end it has, Eddie Hobbs observed recently that people should stand back for a few years as prices are not going to increase, his view also is that prices will drop - the minister for finance observed that the end of this unusual property era is not such a bad thing...and he is nobody's fool...

SimpleSam06

Just a note on rent, rental protection for tenants in this country is extremely poor, as is evidenced by the fact that a charity is required to provide assistance to tenants in trouble. This makes rent a bad long term alternative.

Theres more to it than money, although this won't slow or stop the collapse.

ambro25

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Just a note on rent, rental protection for tenants in this country is extremely poor. This makes rent a bad long term alternative. Theres more to it than money, although this won't slow or stop the collapse.

In a falling market, with a growing oversupply of rental accomodation (quasi-guaranteed, better to put some rental money towards repayments than all out of the owners' rapidly-shrinking pockets), a good tenant is worth his/her weight on gold.

I believe we're about to witness the start of an acceptance, in Ireland, of the wisdom of long-term renting, that's been prevalent on the Continent for donkey's years.

jackal

Im not so sure about long term renting becoming as acceptable as owning property. People trot out the "Irish Love Property" line, and this is true to a certain extent. There are two other problems...

1. Tennants getting no protection due to landlord not being with PTRB.
2. Landlords being with PTRB and being shafted royally by them.

Until no.2 is solved, Landlords are going to avoid letting tennants come under section 4 protection as much as they can. Once the tennant is there 6 months, the tennant holds all the cards. Have a read of the PTRB court transcripts to see the way landlords are treated. Its a joke. If I was a landlord, I would steer well clear of the PTRB myself as they are worse than useless.

A tennant is given full rights regardless of whether or not they have ever paid a penny in rent, so long as they can stay there for 6 months - bonkers.

Im not a landlord, I have been renting the place I live for the last 6 years. We dont bother the landlord, she doesent bother us, rent has stayed cheap, we dont have a lease, we do most of the upkeep ourselves. No problems - but no real security either.

ambro25

There's no more security to be had with buying property, than with renting, so long as mortgage/rent needs to be paid (respectively).

Ayone paying a mortgage off isn't a property owner, they're a property acquirer. They'll be owner as and when the mortgage is paid off in full. If and when an acquirer is unlucky enough that a repo is executed, then their mortgage payments hitherto have proven just-as-dead money.

That's a most-regularly overlooked difference, which isn't just for the sake of linguistics

I'm lucky enough to have been through all these mills (buying/owning/renting out/renting) in several countries already - as a long-term renter here (3+ years), I can't say that Ireland is any worse than elsewhere. Maybe I got lucky with my landlord. I'd like to think that he likewise thinks he got a good tenant.

But buying here didn't make sense 3 years ago, and it still doesn't now (IMO, from an "outsider" POV). I haven't got a problem (or chip-on-shoulder/green-eyed monster/etc.) with not buying, v/happy where we are atm and saving2-3 times as much as if we got a mortgage for the same place.

Then again, I don't plan on retiring here (but may stay awhile longer than your average construction worker )