Brand New Irish Comic

Fuddmillbyrne

Hi There evewebody!

I am looking for any and all comments about what people most look for in a comic. I've been working with a friend on creating a comic for about a year now and we are coming close to a release but we want to make sure that we get the balance between story and art right. We know that there is no set formula to this but think that you guys out there may have some hints and the likes for us considering alot of people on the forums here have released there own stuff, can you let us know how well (or not) your idea was recieved. At the end of the day we will be releasing regardless but seen as we are new to all of this all help is much appreciated. The below link is to a shot of our unfinished logo, more colours are to be added and final touch ups will be needed but let us know what you think.

Cheers

If anyone knows of a colourist who is looking to work on stuff like this send me a pm

bombidol

We'd have to see some actual art and a little plot too I think. As for the logo, it looks nice but its pretty unreadable.

Fuddmillbyrne

Hey, the plot line is based on a planet that I came up with and its your action style comic, following tribes (One in particular) that have hundreds of years of history behind them and plenty of plot twists and planted elements for each issue to crop back up in future episodes. Its not that we dont want to shout from the roof tops about the story its just that we want to leave it to the readers to find out. With the plot and story we've crossed genres in a frantastic way but again saying to much will spoil the surprise. As for the logo, your right about the readability, there are more colours to be added which will show the whole thing and i hope that everyone will be able to read it! if not its back to the drawing board. the look of the comic is something that we'd like other people to tell us (**** or Not ). The story line is for the larger picture completely original and will crosses genres seamlessly, we think! The planet is a fire and ice buzz that, at first glance may offer nothing new but will unfold into something seriously cool. i will get some art shoots up in the next day or so. Thanks for the comments

Fysh

I'm with bombidol, the logo looks very nice but as a recognizable signature for your comic it doesn't work as is.

As for what it's about, I understand that you're reticent to give away your storyline but you have to have a pitch to catch people's interest. You've talked about your approach to storytelling within the comic, but other than being about tribes on a fictional planet we know nothing about it.

Is it the story of a long-standing feud between two tribes which finally erupts into all-out warfare? The story of how one tribe conquered the rest and built a new kingdom? Or the story of the tribes being presented with an Outside Context Problem and banding together to deal with it? Perhaps the story of the warrior whose arrival heralds dark times/a great plague/the final war that will bring peace to the land/the invention of comedy clubs?

If you want to pitch your comic and start generating real interest in it, you'll need a few preview pages and a certain amount of information about the overall story (even if it's just one line, like the examples I gave above) and the central characters the story will focus on.

As regards the comic itself, how are you looking at publishing it? (ie self-publishing & fully funded by yourselves, with ads to offset the printing costs, or will it be a digital comic you sell access to?) Will it be colour or black & white? How do you plan to handle distribution, and will you be distributing it outside of Ireland? Will it be an ongoing series or a limited series to start off with?

Fuddmillbyrne

Hey Fysh, thanks for the reply and the questions too. I've given a breakdown of the comic and our plans, hopefully it will make things clearer

The comics basis is in action, Ying/Yang tale on all fronts. The readers views on the characters and the stories are their views, Viewer perseption is the key that i wanted to go for. Blades on one side and new style futuristic weapons on the other. (No time travel has been used in the making of this comic) A single common starting point that leads all parties in different directions, together but separate.

The story revolves around one main tribe (for starters) following a selection of warriors and there backgrounds. There are several other tribes that are interwined in the plot lines with episodes that will be released to shed light and open up the story into different areas.

The story will have points of banding together but will devieate and diversify itself ten times over, twists etc

Comedy clubs will now have to be entered

We have a breakdown of characters and character profiles for a kind of prerelease thing and will have various sites showing the preview stuff

Publishing will be by ourselves, we are covering printing and distrubution costs

Full Colour

32 Pages including the cover (Full Gloss Cover)

Large double page spreads

Classic comic size

Bi monthly is what we're aiming at, when pennies start appearing we want to go monthly (By that stage we'd hope to be selling internationally)

Any and all tips on distrubution are welcome as we are new to this.

Thanks for your insight Fysh, hope this answers things a bit better and for anyone else who may read this

bombidol

Show us a few pages if you can, dont have to be finished.

Fysh

Regarding distribution, I have no first-hand experience; I have read a bit about it and the best advice I could give you would be to get in contact with ztoical (who will probably throw some good advice your way on this thread once she gets back online) and as many other people with experience of self-publishing comics in Ireland as possible.

For within-the-country folks to talk at, I'd suggest Bob Byrne, Alan & Ian from Sancho, and Rob Curley of Freakshow. There are other folks out there involved in self-publishing but those few would be the ones I'd expect to have most experience of arranging distribution.

Once you're looking at going international, you'll probably want to consider distribution via Diamond; however, bear in mind that Diamond now have minimum orders in place so if you're not sure about your comic selling enough to keep Diamond interested, you may have to go the painful indie way.

Fuddmillbyrne

bombidol wrote: »

Show us a few pages if you can, dont have to be finished.

We just got our A3 scanner today so we'll put up scans asap

Fuddmillbyrne

:eek:

Fysh wrote: »

Regarding distribution, I have no first-hand experience; I have read a bit about it and the best advice I could give you would be to get in contact with ztoical (who will probably throw some good advice your way on this thread once she gets back online) and as many other people with experience of self-publishing comics in Ireland as possible.

For within-the-country folks to talk at, I'd suggest Bob Byrne, Alan & Ian from Sancho, and Rob Curley of Freakshow. There are other folks out there involved in self-publishing but those few would be the ones I'd expect to have most experience of arranging distribution.

Once you're looking at going international, you'll probably want to consider distribution via Diamond; however, bear in mind that Diamond now have minimum orders in place so if you're not sure about your comic selling enough to keep Diamond interested, you may have to go the painful indie way.

Looking forward to talking to all of the above about all of it! No Indie, please god no indie way! :eek: Thanks

bombidol

Diamond is the only real viable answer to getting your stuff in shops worldwide with minimal stress. Just prepare to be raped, Diamond take between 60 and 80% of your cover price, you pay for your own shipping and you have to pay mad money for a special barcode. The indie way makes it easier to work on your own terms but takes a lot of time.

ztoical

Fuddmillbyrne wrote: »

Publishing will be by ourselves, we are covering printing and distrubution costs

Full Colour

32 Pages including the cover (Full Gloss Cover)

Large double page spreads

Classic comic size

Bi monthly is what we're aiming at, when pennies start appearing we want to go monthly (By that stage we'd hope to be selling internationally)

Hiddy hi folks from NYC - just got back to the city from SPX and got to chat with some reps from diamond so here's info for you straight from them. You would submit one comic to them and IF they pick it up you would be expected to print at least 3000 to 5000 copies. They would give you 5 issues to sell a % of each issue [and it would be a pretty high %] if you don't they drop the book. They also stressed a couple of times they are really strict about deadlines.

A print run of 5000 will be very expensive if you are going the full colour road. Unless you've got a really really good relationship with a printer. You would need to go with a litho printer. One in Ireland is going to set you back a pretty big sum [I was printing a full colour book recently and the estimates I got were 10,000 euros for 200 copies of a 150 page book] To make it affordable you'd have to go with an overseas printer so expect to add at least 16 weeks for print turn around so you should be working at least 3 months ahead.

Thats alot of money to invest and if you don't find the right market right away it would be wasted. Your better off going via small press - printing a small run with Comixpress or Lulu and working your ass of during con season. Hit Bristol in the UK and either SDCC, MoCCA, or SPX [or all three if you can] in america and getting a publisher to pick it up. Thats how Flight, Blankets and whole pile of amazing comics that I'm to lazy to name right now got international distrabution.

I also stress people start with smaller runs so they can fix any layout/margin/colour issues esp if you've little or no print expirence.

Anyway wrecked after 6 hour drive back from DC and have to go buy a new suitcase to fit all the comics I got at the con. Back to Ireland tomorrow:D

the Shades

it's gotta be said ztoical when it comes to know-how you are a god send to Irish indy comics!

ztoical

the Shades wrote: »

it's gotta be said ztoical when it comes to know-how you are a god send to Irish indy comics!

I'm sure Bob, Alan, Rob etc can share all the same advice as me. Only reason I know is cus I've made all the mistakes and learned the hard way lol

Fuddmillbyrne

ztoical wrote: »

Hiddy hi folks from NYC - just got back to the city from SPX and got to chat with some reps from diamond so here's info for you straight from them. You would submit one comic to them and IF they pick it up you would be expected to print at least 3000 to 5000 copies. They would give you 5 issues to sell a % of each issue [and it would be a pretty high %] if you don't they drop the book. They also stressed a couple of times they are really strict about deadlines.

A print run of 5000 will be very expensive if you are going the full colour road. Unless you've got a really really good relationship with a printer. You would need to go with a litho printer. One in Ireland is going to set you back a pretty big sum [I was printing a full colour book recently and the estimates I got were 10,000 euros for 200 copies of a 150 page book] To make it affordable you'd have to go with an overseas printer so expect to add at least 16 weeks for print turn around so you should be working at least 3 months ahead.

Thats alot of money to invest and if you don't find the right market right away it would be wasted. Your better off going via small press - printing a small run with Comixpress or Lulu and working your ass of during con season. Hit Bristol in the UK and either SDCC, MoCCA, or SPX [or all three if you can] in america and getting a publisher to pick it up. Thats how Flight, Blankets and whole pile of amazing comics that I'm to lazy to name right now got international distrabution.

I also stress people start with smaller runs so they can fix any layout/margin/colour issues esp if you've little or no print expirence.

Anyway wrecked after 6 hour drive back from DC and have to go buy a new suitcase to fit all the comics I got at the con. Back to Ireland tomorrow:D

Thanks a million for the heads up, was doin some research in to the sales figures for Diamond and all of the comics they sell, at what price, how many, its looking pretty good at the moment, i'll post it up when i have it finished if anyone wants to have a look.

ztoical

Fuddmillbyrne wrote: »

Thanks a million for the heads up, was doin some research in to the sales figures for Diamond and all of the comics they sell, at what price, how many, its looking pretty good at the moment, i'll post it up when i have it finished if anyone wants to have a look.

Well I already would have that information but I'm sure there are others on here who might be interested. Should have added in last post you should aim to have at least 3 issues done before submitting to diamond - you don't have to but it looks better as it means you can meet deadlines you set for yourself and diamond get loads of big issues 1's but then never see anything else. Thats why its good to hit the con scene have issue 1 for lets say spx in the fall then people see you again at APE in the spring with issue 2 [thou the rumor mill says APE is moving to November which would suck] It builds better confidence in you with distrabutors and also with the retail stores.

Fuddmillbyrne

ztoical wrote: »

Well I already would have that information but I'm sure there are others on here who might be interested. Should have added in last post you should aim to have at least 3 issues done before submitting to diamond - you don't have to but it looks better as it means you can meet deadlines you set for yourself and diamond get loads of big issues 1's but then never see anything else. Thats why its good to hit the con scene have issue 1 for lets say spx in the fall then people see you again at APE in the spring with issue 2 [thou the rumor mill says APE is moving to November which would suck] It builds better confidence in you with distrabutors and also with the retail stores.

What kind of info do you have in your breakdown of Diamond's figures? i have a fare whack of averages, percentages to do with every aspect i can think of for every publisher and the releases they put out from 2005-2007. to me it shows alot of the high sales figures are in the 1-10 issue region. The high sales amounts come from the big boy's (Marvel, DC and lower down is Dark horse) but when compared against how many release they have Versus the actual revenue, percentage wise, there are other small publishers making relatively better profits (but this is just on comic sales, when taking into account the Advertising revenue it's a different ball game altogether as with higher sales comes better ad rev) what do you think? We've been debating the issues "Issues" as to how many we could have ready before looking at a distrabutor and are trying are best to not get to wrapped up in releasing for the sake of but rather be set up to go longer and more consistantly then what i have seen others do, much to the same extent as what you said about the confidence thing What stuff have you put out yourself in the past/now?

Fuddmillbyrne

Here's one of our uncoloured characters, he's one of about eight from the first set of characters, i know that automatic thoughts lend themselves to a tribal vibe (and i myself desrcibed it like this), but bare with us it aint no indian party This is a preview shot which we're doin for most of the main characters. Criticisms welcome:eek: If anyone out there would like to colour in this chap we'd love to see your work too? Just a thought if anyone's interested

ztoical

Fuddmillbyrne wrote: »

Here's one of our uncoloured characters, he's one of about eight from the first set of characters, i know that automatic thoughts lend themselves to a tribal vibe (and i myself desrcibed it like this), but bare with us it aint no indian party This is a preview shot which we're doin for most of the main characters. Criticisms welcome:eek: If anyone out there would like to colour in this chap we'd love to see your work too? Just a thought if anyone's interested

Any chance of resized image - the attachment is massive and its hard to really see anything. Also if you've got a full turn around that would be great - I downloaded the image on to my computer so I could see it and I would have few comments about the character anatomy but some comments depend on seeing a turn around.

Whats with everyone doing attachments - Rob did it for his new book too - resize, save for web and upload on to your own server [cus if your going to launch a comic book you need a server, it will make sending files to printers sooooo much easier] and link the image to the boards.

As for colouring - how are you inking it first? Digital or by hand?

Fuddmillbyrne

other shots below, i've put two different sizes in, give us a heads up on the best size for viewing. Its inked by hand, the scanner we have is fantastic and the scans leave little or no breaks. as for a server we havent got as far to get our own, we have web space but time is limited at the moment to how much we can give to each section of what were doin. like i said any and all help is welcome, if you have done this stuff before and could steer us in the right direction in terms of a web presence we'd appreciate it. we'll get some front on shots and put em up.

ztoical

Fuddmillbyrne wrote: »

other shots below, i've put two different sizes in, give us a heads up on the best size for viewing. Its inked by hand, the scanner we have is fantastic and the scans leave little or no breaks. as for a server we havent got as far to get our own, we have web space but time is limited at the moment to how much we can give to each section of what were doin. like i said any and all help is welcome, if you have done this stuff before and could steer us in the right direction in terms of a web presence we'd appreciate it. we'll get some front on shots and put em up.

I've pm'd comments as I'm not sure how much critque you want on a public forum.

Fysh

It's hard to say what will or will not work in terms of designing a site and so on, but to really start generating interest in your comic you need to have a few pages available to use as a preview (preferably finished pages, but inked or even just pencilled pages will serve to give an idea of what the finished product will be like).

Until you have that (and a good idea of when you'll be able to get your first issue out) you shouldn't really devote too much time to trying to promote it. Getting a well-designed website fully operational takes either a lot of time (if one of your team has the skills to do it) or a fair bit of money (getting someone else to do it for you), and either investment will involve removing some of your focus from the comic itself - which is what you need to concentrate on, because it's where you'll be making your money.

Blk150

Thanks;)

ztoical

Fuddmillbyrne wrote: »

What kind of info do you have in your breakdown of Diamond's figures? i have a fare whack of averages, percentages to do with every aspect i can think of for every publisher and the releases they put out from 2005-2007. to me it shows alot of the high sales figures are in the 1-10 issue region. The high sales amounts come from the big boy's (Marvel, DC and lower down is Dark horse) but when compared against how many release they have Versus the actual revenue, percentage wise, there are other small publishers making relatively better profits (but this is just on comic sales, when taking into account the Advertising revenue it's a different ball game altogether as with higher sales comes better ad rev) what do you think? We've been debating the issues "Issues" as to how many we could have ready before looking at a distrabutor and are trying are best to not get to wrapped up in releasing for the sake of but rather be set up to go longer and more consistantly then what i have seen others do, much to the same extent as what you said about the confidence thing What stuff have you put out yourself in the past/now?

do you know I only saw this post now - I must have skipped right to the next post and never seen it. Just wanted to say I didn't ignore, just didn't see it. The numbers I have are from editors at Marvel and DC and from Diamond themselves but I really think they are just numbers and don't reflect anything - alot of small publishers such as SLG and Oni are moving away from floppies and focusing on graphic novels and trades also alot of small publishers have little, or no advertisting in them and you have to take the cost of printing in, alot of small publishers don't print in colour for a reason. Some costs can be kept down in the USA as they can send stuff via media mail, a special service just for printed material, we don't have that option here. I still belive working cons is the best start, its easier to get feedback and get your work known and I think small runs to start are never a bad thing cus even the best publishers in the world mess up print runs but they can afford to pulp a whole run not many small publishers can. Theres a con this weekend right here in ireland and plenty more within easy travel distance, you don't have to spend a fortune or travel thousands of miles.

I worked for World War three illustrated [its a new york based politcal comics anthology, they are distirbuted by Diamond and Forbidden planet stocks the odd issue ever now then *cheap plug*] for a few years as an editorial assistant so one my main jobs was scanning and laying out issues and sending stuff to the printers. We used a canadian printer as they are alot cheaper then american ones. We switched printers for one issue and the editors were really not happy with the result but they had to use it as they couldn't afford to reprint the run.