Help please advice needed after car purchase

Thumper Long

Hi Folks,

I'll start off by thanking you all for any helpful advice you donate my way, i have searched and cannot find an answer to this question.

To start, In the past week I traded in my old car for a not so old car as I needed something bigger etc. I went and looked at cars in various garages and eventually settled on a car in a second hand car dealership in Dublin. I spoke to the sales rep and all the usual rubbish about the new car and asked him how much would he give me for my old car. He goes and has a look at my old car and walks all around it etc looking at all the panels etc. He then rings his boss and after some online research he comes up with a trade in offer of X thousand euro for my car. We agree on the finances and I give the man a deposit after taking the car for a test drive. All goes well i return some days later to collect the car after it has been serviced and provide my old car and a bank draft in payment.

I took receipt of the car at lunchtime on day 1, midmorning on day 2 I receive a phone call from the garage saying that the car was in a serious accident previously and I could either give them 2000 Euro or return the car I had purchased from them (about 5 business hours after i had taken possession of the new car the garage owner rings me telling me that he has had an independent assessment done to the value of 2 grand to fix the car, in a threatening kind of manner). I bought my old car privately 2 and a half years ago and was never at any time aware that the car had been involved in an accident of any kind.

Sorry for the long winded post but I really need to know what my legal entitlement is here. I have a signed receipt etc from the dealership and a photocopy of the completed change of ownership. I believe that the car is now legally mine. Am I at all liable for the previous crash damage on the old car, it cant be that major as the car flew through its NCT and I never noticed it. I never with held any information from the garage and I was never asked by the sales man had the car been crashed and I could only have answered it to the best of my knowledge "NO".

Really any advice here is greatly appreciated as I have had no luck getting through to the National Consumer Agency and have nowhere else to turn for help.

Best regards

Thumper

cantdecide

I'm inclined to think that you're ass is covered. They're the experts and if you (genuinely) have no knowledge of previous crashes I don't think there's too much they can do.

But I'm not sure.

Elessar

Tell him to go f*ck himself. You did not have any knowledge of any crashes (it is your legal responsibility to tell a buyer of any crashes you know of) so he doesnt have a leg to stand on afaik. He agreed the sale and all is done. If he was unsure he should have gotten an inspection before he took it off you and all was signed.

If he rings back tell him to talk to your solicitor as you'll take it to court. I bet he wont be so enthusiastic then.

Of course, ring your own solicitor and ask, don't just take the internets advice.

gyppo

Id be inclined to agree with cantdecide.

You offered your old car as a trade-in in good faith, and it was available for inspection by the garage, who could then decide in the cars worth - they obviuosly did'nt inspect it closely enough, and thats not your fault.

OldmanMondeo

Don't worry about it. I traded a car in with a knackered clutch, didn't hear anything back. You have told them as far as you were concerned the car was not crashed, speak to a solicitor and get their advice, but I reckon they don't have a leg to stand on. sounds more like they fecked up on pricing on the trade in against the newer car and are trying to claw something back.

Just don't go their next time you are looking for a car.

C_Breeze

Just to add to the momentum - I would be sure you are fully covered.

Any inspections should have been done by the garage before hand, and if the registration cert has been signed - the car is now yours.

They can do sweet F.A

anthony4335

I don't think that he has a hope in the world of getting anything from you as it is up to the buyer to check over the car before he buys it. Which as a professional he is supposed to have done. As you had no knowledge of the damage you cannot be expected to disclose it. So I would suggest to you to tell him that you have no knowledge of any damage with the car and will not be paying outanything, and suggest to him that you will be reporting him to the garda for harassment.

cantdecide

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

sounds more like they fecked up on pricing on the trade in against the newer car and are trying to claw something back.

Just don't go their next time you are looking for a car.

Probably.

but if it's as they say it is you'd expect them to look at the bigger picture and think about the next time you change- now they've lost a happy customer over a poxy few quid....

MercMad

I agree with the folks above !

YOU are not a professional in the Motor industry. So they looked at it, maybe it WAS crashed maybe it wasn't. You didn't know anything about that, the point is the salesman went and looked around it ! Therefore he has assumed liability for its condition if he offers you a deal after this point !

Genuinely I would say this guy was inexperienced and got his a55 chewed.

You should phone a solicitor to discuss it. It could get nasty and if they phone you again it would be better if you HAD a solicitors number to provide them with. Tell them to direct any/all further communication back through him/her in future !

Dont let them intimidate you !

BTW what sort of warranty did you get with the newer car ??

Cyrus

Thumper Long wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I'll start off by thanking you all for any helpful advice you donate my way, i have searched and cannot find an answer to this question.

To start, In the past week I traded in my old car for a not so old car as I needed something bigger etc. I went and looked at cars in various garages and eventually settled on a car in a second hand car dealership in Dublin. I spoke to the sales rep and all the usual rubbish about the new car and asked him how much would he give me for my old car. He goes and has a look at my old car and walks all around it etc looking at all the panels etc. He then rings his boss and after some online research he comes up with a trade in offer of X thousand euro for my car. We agree on the finances and I give the man a deposit after taking the car for a test drive. All goes well i return some days later to collect the car after it has been serviced and provide my old car and a bank draft in payment.

I took receipt of the car at lunchtime on day 1, midmorning on day 2 I receive a phone call from the garage saying that the car was in a serious accident previously and I could either give them 2000 Euro or return the car I had purchased from them (about 5 business hours after i had taken possession of the new car the garage owner rings me telling me that he has had an independent assessment done to the value of 2 grand to fix the car, in a threatening kind of manner). I bought my old car privately 2 and a half years ago and was never at any time aware that the car had been involved in an accident of any kind.

Sorry for the long winded post but I really need to know what my legal entitlement is here. I have a signed receipt etc from the dealership and a photocopy of the completed change of ownership. I believe that the car is now legally mine. Am I at all liable for the previous crash damage on the old car, it cant be that major as the car flew through its NCT and I never noticed it. I never with held any information from the garage and I was never asked by the sales man had the car been crashed and I could only have answered it to the best of my knowledge "NO".

Really any advice here is greatly appreciated as I have had no luck getting through to the National Consumer Agency and have nowhere else to turn for help.

Best regards

Thumper

agree with everything that has been said, most likely the sales man got his ass chewed and they are trying to recover the loss, your warranty is as good as useless now tho! also they may not play ball with the reg cert?

Avns1s

MercMad wrote: »

BTW what sort of warranty did you get with the newer car ??

I'd be worried about that part now. I'd say you'll have difficulty getting satisfaction without a legal involvement if anything does go wrong.

I believe it was the garage's place to make sure that the car was as tehy thought it to be before agreeing to deal.

Eoin

So, in 2 and half years of driving your old car, your mechanic never once said there was 2K of work needed on it or even mentioned that it was damaged?

Thumper Long

eoin_s wrote: »

So, in 2 and half years of driving your old car, your mechanic never once said there was 2K of work needed on it or even mentioned that it was damaged?

Never once was anything mentioned by my mechanic and he is well known to the family, when I entered the car for the NCT lottery it passed with flying colours. I'm not worried about the pathetic 3 month warranty I was given as the car is pristine and in p.w.o.

Since I posted this morning I have had a threatening phone call and have since reproted it to the Gardai. I suggested to the garage owner that we speak in court and I was told "I wont be in any court, you remember that I have your address and you dont have mine!" To think that I was actually feeling a little bad for this thug, not anymore. This bloke even told me that he had not received payment for the car, so I told him to get the bank draft from his embezzeling salesman, then he proceeded to tell me that the car was not rightfully mine and he was reporting it stolen. I had absolutely no prior knowledge of the 'so called damage' , apparently the car was previously on its roof! which i doubt very much.

Any inspections should have been done by the garage before hand, and if the registration cert has been signed

Reg cert has been signed and I also have a receipt to prove it.

Some said previously that they may play hardball with the reg cert, what can i do to avoid this, I has a full photocopy of the original showing the signatures etc, can this be submitted instead if they refuse to send in the original (or claim to lose it etc.)

Thanks for all the replies guys, I feel so much better already. I wont post the name of the garage in case Boards get into trouble, but if anyone is wondering which garage to steer clear of drop me a PM.

thanks again

Thump

R.O.R

If you have a receipt showing payment for the vehicle, then legally it is yours. Registered keeper of the vehicle does not have to tally with the owner of the vehicle. You may want to put a call in to the DOE in Shannon on Monday morning and explain the situation to someone there. Check if the paperwork has been sent by the dealer and if not, see what can be done. With all the details there on your photocopy they should be sympathetic.

I'd be favouring a name and shame approach to this one if they are getting threatening.

anthony4335

I would report the threat to the garda, telling them your case. Anyways it is not that hard to find out where someone lives. Not that I would suggest following the person home from work.

cantdecide

not being nosey but was this an expensive car? How much did they allow you on your own?

Thumper Long

cantdecide wrote: »

not being nosey but was this an expensive car? How much did they allow you on your own?

It wasn't an expensive car, they allowed me 7 grand for my old car i only changed it because I needed a diesel for travelling with new job, otherwise I wouldn't have changed it for a couple of years.

colm_mcm

my guess is that an inexperienced salesman sold you the car, he appraised your trade in incorrectly, and now he's having trouble shifting it. If there was previous crash damage, he may have missed it and his colleagues have pointed it out to him.

Either way, he should have copped it, you signed thr SIMI form saying you know of no accident repairs to the car ehile it was under your ownership or previously, so unless they can prove that you got it repaired they haven't a leg to stand on.

Seth Brundle

the experineced family mechanic never noticed anything but next day after handing it over the new garage see something. Sounds like bullcrap!
Was this a reputable (if there is one!) used car dealer?

Churchy

colm_mcm wrote: »

my guess is that an inexperienced salesman sold you the car, he appraised your trade in incorrectly, and now he's having trouble shifting it. QUOTE]

Imo ^^ this is the case.
Dealer probably using previous damage as an excuse. If there was no attempt by the punter to mislead , a bona-fide dealer will and should absorb the loss - after all hes the expert.
This happens more often than you think - I know of one case a young sales man booked a Mazda 626 as a Mazda 6 - big loss to the garage.

Thumper Long

the story continues, last night I was out for the night and I get a phone call from home saying there are 2 men at my parents house and they are there to take the car and have the permisison of the guards. Straight away I rang the guards and told them of the situation with only my mother and young brother in the house these guys were parked at the drive with the full beams shining in the window. The guards told me they would send a unit and to wait till the unit was there before I returned with the car. I returned when the guards arrived and the 2 guys were there telling them they were going to take the car back. The guards then pointed out that they were taking no car and if they have an issue to take it to the civil courts. This kind of behavior is way out of line from anyone and the worse part is I dont even live at home anymore but that is the address they have so it will only be my family that gets hassled. I dont know what the guards can do in this situation as im afraid that my family will be intimidated by these thugs and I really dont want to give in to them as I cant allow this kind of behavior to succeed. Any ideas on where to go from here.

regards

thump

Cyrus

jesus thats serious, what kinda lunatics are they,

would you mind pm ing me the name so ive never ever go there.

SidinNaas

Firstly, as everyone else has stated, they have no claim whatsoever provided they didn't ask you about any crashes before you traded in.

Check here http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Get_Your_Rights/Shopping/Cars,_Other_Vehicles/?tabParam=fullversion

As regards the current situation, the gardai seem your only option to deal with the thugs or you could try the name and shame approach - threaten the newspapers if it continues or Joe Duffy !

I for one would like to know the name of the dealer and don't see that to be a problem but the moderators might have a different point of view.

Unfortunately, probably time to follow earlier advice and see a solicitor.

Sympathies from Naas - hope you get it sorted out soon.

colm_mcm

So they told you they had the permission of the Gardai even though they hadn't. At least the fact that the squad car arrved means there is some record of the deal.

If you took out finance on the car it could cost you if you get a refund on the car.

I'd like to know the name of the garage too.

Thumper Long

SidinNaas wrote: »

Firstly, as everyone else has stated, they have no claim whatsoever provided they didn't ask you about any crashes before you traded in.

Check here http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Get_Your_Rights/Shopping/Cars,_Other_Vehicles/?tabParam=fullversion

As regards the current situation, the gardai seem your only option to deal with the thugs or you could try the name and shame approach - threaten the newspapers if it continues or Joe Duffy !

I for one would like to know the name of the dealer and don't see that to be a problem but the moderators might have a different point of view.

I was never asked about any crashes when trading in and even if i had been as stated previously i could only have replied not to the best of my knowledge. The problem with the guards is they cant do anything unless something happens and I dont want it to come to that.

I dont want to name anybody publicly as it may fuel the fire and I want to keep things as reasonable as possible but anyone who wants to know just send me a PM.

thanks

Thump

cyrusdvirus

Caveat Emptor. Let the buyer beware.

This garage guy sounds like a right lad to avoid. Reminds me of a story in the times there during the week. A place in Tallaght..

Mods, this is public domain, so am i ok to post the article???

Irish Times wrote:

Fireman sold written-off car gets damages
Simon Carswell, Finance Correspondent
A Co Mayo fireman was awarded damages of €26,450 by the Dublin Circuit Court yesterday against a Tallaght car company after it sold him an Audi A3 car that had been written off in a Garda chase.
Maurice Ryan sued L&L Autos on the Belgard Road after he discovered that the Audi A3 he bought from the firm in June 2006 had been written off in a crash, repaired and sold to him.
Within days of Mr Ryan buying the car for €24,950, the car's steering locked and Mr Ryan found that the foglights were not working and the fan belt was emitting a loud noise "like a tractor".
Four days after the purchase, Mr Ryan brought the Audi to a local mechanic who said it was damaged and repairs carried out had been poor. He said it was unsafe and not roadworthy.
Mr Ryan's counsel, Sarah-Kate Foley BL, told the court yesterday that the car was "seriously defected". She said Mr Ryan had failed to recover from L&L Autos the €24,950 paid for the vehicle.
Mr Ryan, from Ballina, said at one point he telephoned L&L Autos and spoke to one of the company's managers. "He told me the car was now my property and I was not getting a f***ing penny," said Mr Ryan.
Mr Ryan said he returned the Audi because it was unsafe. The company blamed Mr Ryan for the damage done and the "bad roads in Co Mayo". Mr Ryan said the damage had been done before he purchased it.
He said employees from L&L Autos arrived at his fire station in Co Mayo with the Audi and tried to return the car to him, but he refused to accept it because it was unsafe and he wanted his money back instead. He said the company's employees intimidated him at the station.
The Audi's previous owner, Kevin Cronin, told the court that he bought the Audi in England in March 2004 and had it for more than a year. It was stolen from his home in Dublin, involved in a chase with gardaí and written off.
Ms Foley said her client was out of pocket. Mr Ryan said he was without a car and that it was essential he have a car because as a fireman he was on call 24 hours a day. "It has been a bit of a nightmare to be honest with you," he said. L&L Autos did not defend the action in court yesterday.
Judge Matt Deery awarded Mr Ryan damages of €24,950 and €1,500 for loss and inconvenience.
Ms Foley said Mr Ryan was concerned that he would not be able to recover his money from the company as it was "considerably in the red". She said the company was wound up last month.
The judge suggested that the pleadings be amended to include the two directors of L&L Autos, Shane and Stephen Lyons, as defendants because the company was in liquidation.
An investigation involving the Road Safety Authority, the Garda, the Department of Transport and the Revenue Commissioners is ongoing into a claim that cars classed as total write-offs following crashes have been put back on the road and sold to new owners.
© 2007 The Irish Times

Ok, sop the buyer didn't exactly beware in that case but he's not a professional car dealership!!

cantdecide

I'd get a solicitors letter telling them that under the law it was there own fault for not being careful and now cease and desist.

oleras

They have no right whatsoever to demand 2k extra from you, they also have no right to intimade you and your family, you need to put a stop to this as soon as possible, you already have had to get the cops involved ffs, what kind of outfit did you buy the car from ?

A few things, is it a main dealer or a backstreet guy ? At least with a main dealer the distributer does not want that kind of press, i would use that in my favour if he is. What I would do is this, go get yourself a phone recorder, there are small money, call the garage owner and tell him from the start you are recording the conversation ( very important) if he wont talk to you he knows he is in the wrong. Ask him why he sent 2 goons to your mothers house to try and steal your car ? Why has he been intimidating you ? Next i would go to a consumer affairs show, ie. Joe Duffy, he would love the david and goliath type story esp if it is a big name garage.

This is a bully and a chancer, they can only be treated one way, the hard way !

gyppo

OP,

This latest development is getting worrisome. I would advise you to see your solicitor, and get a stern letter sent to this place, telling them that all further correspondance/dialogue/interaction from them to be conveyed solely through your legal representative.
I would also suggest you copy this thread to the legal forum, as there may be more knowledgeable guru's there to give pointers (Im not suggesting though that you do this as a substitute for a proper legal consultation).

BrianD3

Agree with the last poster - this is not really a motors issue any longer. It's more a "how to deal with a ****ing nutjob" issue. If there's one thing I can't stand it's pr1cks like that thinking they can intimidate people.

Jo King

Ask the guards to charge these people or at least threaten them under the following :-


NON-FATAL OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON ACT, 1997

11. —(1) A person who makes any demand for payment of a debt shall be guilty of an offence if—


( a ) the demands by reason of their frequency are calculated to subject the debtor or a member of the family of the debtor to alarm, distress or humiliation, or


( b ) the person falsely represents that criminal proceedings lie for non-payment of the debt, or


( c ) the person falsely represents that he or she is authorised in some official capacity to enforce payment, or


( d ) the person utters a document falsely represented to have an official character.


(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500.


Their behaviour is clearly over the top even if you did owe them anything.