How much to offer?

JOJOC

I think this was answered before so sorry for posting about it again.
What is the standard amount to offer for a house or apartment i.e - what percentage below the asking price is normal ?

Is the house or apartment was advertised for 460,000 what amount would be normal to offer?

Sorry about all the questions and any advice greatly appreciated!

Smoggy

What are other houses in the area being sold for ?
Whats the area ?
Is it a new build ?
Are there many other properties for sale in the area ?
How long has it been on the market.

10% off

The_Conductor

JOJOC wrote:

Is the house or apartment was advertised for 460,000 what amount would be normal to offer?

There isn't a standard amount to offer- there is no magic formula, unfortunately. Once you accept that credit rules have tightened up dramatically and that it is highly unlikely that a seller has realistic expectations as to what they will achieve for their house- it becomes a simple equation of trying to compromise between what they might be willing to accept versus what it might be reasonable to offer. I'm looking at a house tomorrow in Celbridge which the estate agent has put a guideprice of 550k on. If I like it and am putting an offer on it- my opening offer might be 400-410, which I would leave on the table for a week or two, before getting back to them to see what the level of interest it.

You don't really have to worry about someone walking up to the door with a wad of cash in their hands and gazumping you any more- its crazy behaviour in a falling market.

Know what your maximum price that you can pay for a property is- and then offer say 20% less- and open negotiations after leaving the seller to stew for a while. I'm going to be selling my townhouse shortly- one sold a year ago for 465k- I reckon its realistic that its now about 100k less. Sure it sucks, but where I want to go has also fallen, whether its seller has faced reality or not remains to be seen.

JOJOC

Thats good to know i will be a ftb so didnt know what to offer! How long would you leave the offer on the table before offering more ? I know the market is a lot different now than what it was a few years ago so hopefully people are more desperate to sell now.
Should I wait on the estate agent to get back to me or should i contact them?

Thanks

The_Conductor

JOJOC wrote:

Thats good to know i will be a ftb so didnt know what to offer! How long would you leave the offer on the table before offering more ? I know the market is a lot different now than what it was a few years ago so hopefully people are more desperate to sell now.

Thanks

If you're very interested you could put a time limit on your offer. I would not automatically up my offer at the end of the time limit- I'd be half inclined to walk away from the table for a while to get a better idea of the lie of the land. When I did go back in with an offer, depending on how I saw the lie of the land- it might actually be a lower offer- the days of getting into bidding frenzies are over........ I personally have the added difficulty that I have to sell my current place- when I am selling my place I will seriously consider a very much lower offer from a FTB than from someone else who could be months trying to offload their apartment/house. Being a FTB is a benefit- you do not have ties to other assets that you have to offload. Use it to your advantage. If the house does get away from you- another will come along- rapidly....... the way the market is........

eek

Everyone is pretty much agreed that we are now looking at a buyer's market so I reckon buyers should start asking to see Building Energy Ratings (BER) now. They will be a legal requirement from Jan 2009.

If I were putting in an offer for a place I'd make it conditional on the vendor providing a BER and a certain rating being achieved. If that rating was not achieved I'd then lower my offer accordingly. The vendor might refuse to provide one (they can legally do that for the moment) but they are another tool you can use to haggle with. Sharp intake of breath etc

Admittedly if you are an owner occupier you will only need one of these if you are trying to sell your home post 2009 ..... but if you are considering a 'buy to let' property you'd need to note that rental properties will also require tenants to be provided with a BER from Jan 2009.

dame

There are no assessors trained and registered (with SEI) yet to give BER's for Existing Dwellings. The SEI do not currently issue BER's for existing dwellings. The SEI has not yet decided what measurements will be taken and what calculation method will be used. If someone is offering a rating for an existing house now they are con-artists who are making up their own version and forging the certificate.

BER's for new dwellings are calculated off plans and the BER cert issued is a Provisional Certificate, valid for 2 years. A site visit and new BER must be calculated after the dwelling is built and a full BER cert will then be issued. The full BER cert will be valid for 10 years.

BER's are required for new dwellings since 1st January 2007. Any house for which the planning permission was applied for since that date needs to have one. The builder is responsible for getting this done and providing the buyer/client with the certificate. Any dwelling that got its planning permission before the 1st Jan 07 must have all the external walls built by 30th June 2008, otherwise it will also require a BER.

From 1st July 2008 all new dwellings will require a BER, and from 1st January 2009 all existing buildings for sale, rent or lease will have to have a BER.


I do agree with eek that BER's are very useful to have, a good rating is an indication your house is going to be efficient and meets or exceeds insulation standards etc. If your house/apartment fits into the new dwelling category now, then I would insist on getting a BER for it before buying(Note the builder is supposed to pay for it). All BER's are issued with an advisory report giving suggestions on how the house could be improved, eg changing the boiler to a more efficient model, changing or increasing the insulation in walls or roof etc. Since it is a buyer's market I would also ask to see that and would insist on whatever changes I wanted made to the specifications, as long as it is possible to do them of course, as in while the house is still in the being built stage. Remember that a BER is calculated using the plans and specifications so I would check that the insulation, windows, boiler etc are the same as was specified on the plans. If something has been substituted with an inferior product then the full BER for the house will be very different. Check these things when snagging.

If I was buying a new-build house/apartment now I would insist on an air-tightness test too. They will be required within the next year and will tell you your house has been well-built and won't leak too much heat. Google for information. They are required in England already. The worst acceptable air-permeability level is 10 m3/hour/m2 at 50 Pascals. If the house is timber-frame I would absolutely insist that this testing is done. Timber-frame houses are tested in factory but are very susceptible to leaks if all due care was not taken during the on site assembly and erection.

The SEI register of BER assessors is here: http://www.sei.ie/uploadedfiles/InfoCentre/BER/Reg%20_Assessor_Web111007.pdf
An assessor must have completed a certified BER assessor course, be registered with the SEI (and on this list) and preferably have public liability and professional indemnity insurance. If the assessor is not registered then they do not have the correct full version of the software for calculating the BER and cannot submit their results to the SEI in order to obtain the BER certificate. Check that the assessor is registered or do not accept a cert in their name.

MazStar

Im thinking of making an offer on a 1 bed apartment tomorrow. Im stuck at trying to deicde what to offer??
The apt has been on the market for 1 year and owners have already moved out to their new home, therefore paying 2 mortgages. Thay have reduced the price by 50 grand since it went on the market a year ago. The agent has 'bait priced' the apt at 220,000 but says they are looking to get 235,000-240,000.
It is advertised as 220k and that is why I went to view it in the 1st place. I am a ftb with mortgage approval in place.
Do you think it would be unreasonable to offer 210,000 or is this an ok offer, to start on anyway?

Thanks

Mazstar

Victor

I'd offer €195,000. He'll say thats unrealistic and unpalletable. You'll say thats all the bank will approve, can he take it to the seller. You'll leave it stew for a week, see if he comes back. Assuming he doesn't, you will then get a pay rise and expect to be able to offer €205,000 - this is much more palateable as its over €200,000.

The_Conductor

I'd be inclined to agree with Victor. Estate agents are getting desperate. I went to view a house with a guideprice of 550 on Saturday- its been on the market for 9 months, they are currently on their third estate agent. It entered the market at 680 originally. The estate agent who showed us around pleaded with me to ignore the guideprice altogether and just make any offer at all- so she could bring it back to the vendor. I had told her my budget was 450 when I factor stamp duty into the equation would she consider it an offer on the house- she would.

Tough on the estate agent for punting the apartment at 220 if that is not a genuine tactic. I'd knock 10-15% off the guideprice and lob in an offer. Worse case scenario they say no.

Note: ask to see a certificate of membership for the complexes management company and check to see what the opinion of the management company, its services and the fees it charges are. S.

JOJOC

Hi
I have been looking at a property that went sale agreed and now is back on the market! Ive emailed the estate agent and they have said that there is an extension onto this house that was done without planning permission but that it has been there for 7 years now and there has been no objections.
What would be the implications of this if I was to buy it and also should I offer less than the asking price and if so about how much?
Cheers and sorry for all the questions.

mel123

I was looking at a house, advertised price at 490k. After getting some advise here and elsewhere i said feck it, i will go low so offered 440. The estate agent almost laughed (very established EA). The house was worth more than this 440k, but i thought i would chance my look. At the end of the day, its not up to the estate agent its up to the seller at the end of the day, the estate agent will just advise them. If the apartment has not sold in a year tho, i would imagine they will take what they can get...u would imagine they have not got any offers because i would assume they would try and negotiate something with the people who have offered.
IMO apartments are suffering the slump much worse than houses. My own apartment which i sold, i reduced the price by i think about 40k to get rid of the bloody thing that had no interest in it, even tho if i do say myself, was very nicely decorated, good condition etc etc.

JOJOC

Hi
Sorry for banging on about this but id like some of your advice about what I should offer - there is a house I have my eye on - it needs alot of work done to it i.e - central heating, bathroom, kitchen, windows, re-wiring and new floors now the price they are looking for is 395,000 which I think is abit mad considering the amount of work that needs to be done to it!
What would you's offer, keeping in mind all the stuff that needs to be done to it!! It has also come down from 450,000 to 395,000. Should I wait and see what happens with the market or make an offer ?
Cheers in advance, sorry for the rambling!

Tom123

JOJOC wrote: »

Hi
Sorry for banging on about this but id like some of your advice about what I should offer - there is a house I have my eye on - it needs alot of work done to it i.e - central heating, bathroom, kitchen, windows, re-wiring and new floors now the price they are looking for is 395,000 which I think is abit mad considering the amount of work that needs to be done to it!
What would you's offer, keeping in mind all the stuff that needs to be done to it!! It has also come down from 450,000 to 395,000. Should I wait and see what happens with the market or make an offer ?
Cheers in advance, sorry for the rambling!

I'd offer €350k and see what the reaction is

The_Conductor

Tom123 wrote:

I'd offer €350k and see what the reaction is

I think thats entirely reasonable.

Jo King

JOJOC wrote: »

Hi
I have been looking at a property that went sale agreed and now is back on the market! Ive emailed the estate agent and they have said that there is an extension onto this house that was done without planning permission but that it has been there for 7 years now and there has been no objections.
What would be the implications of this if I was to buy it and also should I offer less than the asking price and if so about how much?
Cheers and sorry for all the questions.

You could be buying trouble. After seven years the Local Authority cannot take enforcement action for the breach of planning permission. You cannot legally maintain the extension and some building societies are wary of lending on properties which are non-compliant with the planning laws. When the property market is rising lenders are not too bothered about planning but when it is falling they become very concerned. The only solution is getting retention. This can be a costly and time consuming process and there is no guarantee that retention will ultimately be granted.

JOJOC

You could be buying trouble. After seven years the Local Authority cannot take enforcement action for the breach of planning permission. You cannot legally maintain the extension and some building societies are wary of lending on properties which are non-compliant with the planning laws. When the property market is rising lenders are not too bothered about planning but when it is falling they become very concerned. The only solution is getting retention. This can be a costly and time consuming process and there is no guarantee that retention will ultimately be granted

Sorry Jo King
I dont understand - ( sorry if thats sounds stupid) i am not looking to extend the property, well not yet anyway!! What is retention? Would a structural engineer not be able to tell me if there was something wrong with the property?

Thanks

The_Conductor

JOJOC wrote:

Sorry Jo King
I dont understand - ( sorry if thats sounds stupid) i am not looking to extend the property, well not yet anyway!! What is retention? Would a structural engineer not be able to tell me if there was something wrong with the property?

Thanks

He means a retention order from the Council, in lieu of the original planning permission which was not sought. Its a very dicey route to take- as you would leave yourself open to an enforcement order which could potentially make you demolish the extension and return the property to its original state. The fact that no-one objected is totally irrelevant- as they had no means of objecting. They will have a legal means of objecting once you try to tidy up the legalities by getting a retention order........

Victor

Make an offer subject to them getting planning permission at their cost. Buyers market. They can put up or shut up.

Question: is the extension a small extension that might be exempt. Note such exemptions did not exist back then.

JOJOC

Ok the house i am looking at is in an estate, an old council estate i think. My bf sister bought one around the corner about 6 years ago and she didnt need planning permission, she also extended earlier this year and she had to get planning permission for this. There is a "lean-to" on the back of the house which looks like it has been there awhile.
Who would be able to give me the info about a retention order and should the estate agent know anything about this?

Victor

JOJOC wrote: »

Who would be able to give me the info about a retention order and should the estate agent know anything about this?

Talk to the planning department in the local council - ask for the planner in charge of that area. You should be able to do so on a confidential basis. The estate agent's attitude will be "ah sure it should be grand".

covey1

I'm about to put an offer on a property in East Wall. However, two bedrooms back out on to the dart going in to Connelly. Apt is 5 min walk from Connelly. As it's close to town... will this affect my resale in a few years???

Tom123

covey1 wrote: »

I'm about to put an offer on a property in East Wall. However, two bedrooms back out on to the dart going in to Connelly. Apt is 5 min walk from Connelly. As it's close to town... will this affect my resale in a few years???

Depends on how much you pay for it now and what discount to the asking price you are getting