Fee Paying Schools

Terry

Undecided

There are no facts given here.
There are only opinions, heresay and assumptions.

MagicMarker

No

Indeed.

RandolphEsq

No

I couldn't speak for what public schools are like, having never attended any. But I did go to a private school, had a very good time, made really good friends, and got a good education. I'd want my kids to have a school experience similar to mine because it really was top notch.

eirebhoy

Undecided

My sister got 520 points and went to public school. The public schools my parents sent us to were excellent. Everyone in my family got what they wanted out of their education which is all that matters. Marian College was where I went.

dame

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

jahalpin wrote: »

PS: One of the reasons that I moved was because the 4th class teacher I was to have in my old school had had a nervous breakdown years earlier and was still teaching

Ah now, in fairness, people are allowed to recover when they've been ill aren't they? Or would you prefer if that teacher stayed on sick leave or social welfare and disability allowance for the rest of his/her life?

How do you even know the teacher had actually had a nervous breakdown years earlier? The principal wouldn't have wanted an unstable teacher in the school and the doctors wouldn't have signed the teacher off as fit to return to a classroom if something as serious as a nervous breakdown hadn't been treated and overcome. Was it just a case of someone spreading rumours about a person they didn't like?

JC 2K3

Undecided

nesf wrote: »

Private schools are private entities they aren't part of the public system and we can't reasonably expect them act like it when it would degrade the service that they charge for. It'd be like expecting taxis to charge lower rates when going to areas that aren't near bus routes and allowing people from these areas to skip ahead at the taxi ranks.

Ah sure I know that. My point was that segregation of kids based on their socio economic status is wrong.

phasers wrote: »

I was recently in a private school for a Debate competition
they have separate buildings for different things
and a POOL

and from what I saw their class sizes are tiny and their teachers seem to have all written books on their subjects

anybody that says a good education is free has obviously never seen one of these places

Anyone who thinks a good education involves a school with many buildings and a pool is deluded.

And about tiny class sizes and "amazing" teachers. Would you people really be so afraid that your child wouldn't be capable of handling their studies with a bit of independance? Mollycoddling isn't really giving kids the "best opportunity" IMHO.

Conor108

Undecided

I go to a community school. I'm in 4th year and they tell us we got above the national average in the JC. 3 people I think got 10 A's! 30-ish to a class but it's grand. Everyones friendly. Why you'd pay 15 grand for a smaller class

Red Alert

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

I went to a fee-paying school for secondary and a national school for primary. I enjoyed my time in both of them, and ended up meeting a whole mix of people I'd never otherwise have known. Whenever I have kids the first thing I will look for is a school they'd be happy in. Then I'll be thinking about facilities etc.

ixoy

I almost went to a private school but ended up in a public school, my parents figuring that I'd perform well anywhere. They were right and I don't believe that I would have done any better really in a private school, being the bright studious young man that I once was.

What my school did practice, and which I believe helped everyone, was streaming of all classes based on an entrance exam and then re-examined after annual exams. It meant that your class was full of those people who wanted to study, and perform well, and that, to me, is a very important factor.

kittex

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

MagicMarker wrote: »

The fact that he's teaching isn't ''bollix'', but the fact he has a history degree and is teaching Chemistry sounds like crap to me... I mean, c'mon! Things can't be that bad, how is it even possible to teach something, especially something like chemistry, without knowing anything about it?

I think it's a case of he said she said and the facts given here are a far sight from the truth.

No it's completely true! Her parents kicked up a stink but as another poster said, no one could be found to take the class. So they read the text book, answered the questions and watched videos of experiments instead of doing them.

You do not have to be qualified as a teacher or even qualified in the subject you even teach. Check it out yourself in the Teaching and Lecturing forum if you wish.
All you need is a degree in a subject on the list, and you register say in that subject. But the school can then, perfectly legally, allow you to teach anything they want. Or you can have any degree for primary.
You could have a marketing degree and be working as a primary school teacher after graduating.
You're not supposed to be permanently emploiyed but plenty get rolling contracts, renewed each year for a number of years.

As for him being 23, very plausible. Leave school at 18, 3 or 4 years at Uni, walk out, pay your registration fee, teach.

Simple.

It's legal, it's condoned, it is normal practice. I think it was the Green party who did a survey and found 1/3 of Irish primary teachers are of this type.

And mammy wonders why Johnny can't spell...

3rd world countries have more restrictions on their teachers than we do.
It's an absolute disgrace and not enough parents in state school push to have properly qualified staff.
Private schools don't stand for it and neither would the paying parents.

Everyone keeps coming back to the smaller classes - that is a must. But Irish schools badly need teachers who know how to teach.

eamoss

No

Pinker wrote: »

Did they teach grammar in them schools:rolleyes:..?

Oh the irony

The name of my school is:

Dundalk Grammar School



Also im dyslexic.

eamoss wrote: »

No scumbags in Private schools only wanna-be-scumbags

In my year, there was just one real scumbag and then there was about 10 stoners. Then the wanna-be's would just get the pi$$ taken out of them.

Take for example the other school I could of went to were my friends went to. Was filled with scumbags, work was never done because they always refused to then the rest of the class suffer and this went on till the very last of 6th year. There was at least one fight everyday if not more and in my school I only saw about 5 fights in my 6 years there.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

It's the fecking LC ffs.

But when you are doing the LC it is a very big deal. Its only after you do it you find out that its not.

EDIT:
When I was in 6th year we had a teacher who was a 6th year when I was in 1st year. It was a bit odd TBH.

Sonnenblumen

No

cson wrote: »

(I would have put this in the Education forum if there was one, and I could probably have stuck it in the Leaving Cert forum but its the parents opinions I'm after really.)

I'm after reading a piece on fee paying schools in the Indo this morning. Over 25,000 students in Ireland attend fee paying schools in this land. We've had a lengthy debate on this over in the Leaving Cert forum and my opinions on this are steadfast.

I think it's absolutely ludicrous that the State helps pay the salaries of teachers in these schools, gives money to aid the building costs in Catholic schools and gives aid to Protestant schools due to their minority status. Having been educated in a community school myself I believe it's down to the individual mostly and that if you work hard enough you can achieve everything to an extent. Having said that having a two tier education system is against my principles. I would ideally like to see a more socialist type system where everyone is equal and oney cannot buy one into a supposedly "better" school. I can dream.

The main question I want to know though is, would you send your child to a fee-paying school? And if so, why?

Naieve and fundamentally flawed view that ignores the multi tier characteristics of the modern world. Socialist systems are repeatedly shown to be bereft of any responsibility, frequently favouring the sameness of a classless individual and sacrificing the development of the indidividual thinker.

Some fairy tales still comne true, but to offer your child/children the best in education is the fundamental responsibility of all children.

There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of damaged children denied real respect and consequently real opportunities because of a state system that is trying but failing to be master to all.

Recent demographics will acutely cause further damage to the state system.

Thank God we have a small but thriving private sector.

kittex

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Naieve and fundamentally flawed view that ignores the multi tier characteristics of the modern world. Socialist systems are repeatedly shown to be bereft of any responsibility, frequently favouring the sameness of a classless individual and sacrificing the development of the indidividual thinker.

This is a criticism made of all assessment based education processes.
In many subjects when you assume a right answer, you often exclude and inhibit original thinkers.
As a teacher myself, this can be a struggle, but one most teachers are aware of and try to overcome.

William Blake put it very well in his poem 'The School Boy'

"But to go to school in a summer morn,
O! it drives all joy away;
Under a cruel eye outworn.
The little ones spend the day,
In sighing and dismay."

JC 2K3

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Naieve and fundamentally flawed view that ignores the multi tier characteristics of the modern world. Socialist systems are repeatedly shown to be bereft of any responsibility, frequently favouring the sameness of a classless individual and sacrificing the development of the indidividual thinker.

Some fairy tales still comne true, but to offer your child/children the best in education is the fundamental responsibility of all children.

There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of damaged children denied real respect and consequently real opportunities because of a state system that is trying but failing to be master to all.

Recent demographics will acutely cause further damage to the state system.

Thank God we have a small but thriving private sector.

You need a balance between socialism and capitalism. The key point here is that the children themselves have not worked for the oppertunity to attend a fee paying school, but rather their parents have. I'm all for capitalism, but you need a level playing field and equal opportunity until children grow up and are capable of earning money themselves.

Of course, I agree that the state system isn't perfect by any means and does need massive changes, but all that a private sector does is segregate children based on their parents wealth. Children aren't commodities, it's not right.

Sonnenblumen

No

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I'm all for capitalism, but you need a level playing field and equal opportunity until children grow up and are capable of earning money themselves.

Of course, I agree that the state system isn't perfect by any means and does need massive changes, but all that a private sector does is segregate children based on their parents wealth. Children aren't commodities, it's not right.

Whats level about the following
- children of criminals
- children who do not wish to be there in the first instance
- children who may not be intelligent and/or not willing to change
- children who have fundamentally differing political/religious beliefs
- children who not speak english
etc etc

If in order to give children the best chance, I'm for segregating the willing from the destructive, the determined from the purposeless, shared views from alien views and if it cost money so be it. What must it be like for a young Irish child to spend hours listening to foreign creeds whilst most struggle to teach or learn english??

A few years ago many teachers made a farsical but successful claim to being major contributors to Irish IT boom!! Not surprising they have as yet tov olunteer any responsibility for the subsequent IT slump. Now they are struggling to deal with a rapidly changing demographic situation and yet seek Gov support for owning a laptop. I mean most teachers have zero world experience and yet are given the privilege to teach the vunerable.

IMO as state employess they should stick to the knitting, do the job they are tasked to do, but if they do not like it, leave it.

The politicians are in charge of legislation and let private money create its own fortunes.

Dave!

I went to a public school and then spent a couple of weeks in Ashfield college (which helped me alot, I must say). When I have kids they'll probably go to public school too. If they need some grinds, etc., then I'd pay for them, but €6k is ridiculous money to pay for private school, when it's not necessary.

JC 2K3

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

If in order to give children the best chance, I'm for segregating the willing from the destructive, the determined from the purposeless, shared views from alien views and if it cost money so be it.

What about the willing, determined child whose parents cannot afford to send them to a private school?

Demonique

Twinkle-star15 wrote: »

I go to a private school, because I had a choice between that and an all-girls convent school .

No contest really, I went to a nun-run school and it was a hell-hole. I was bullied for three years (at least) and that had carried on from primary school where I had been bullied for two years.

Some of the teachers were unsuitable for teaching, one teacher (a total crackpot loon, let's call her Miss O'Poole, not her real name) taught Irish. One day she didn't come in, the next day she came in and told the class she hadn't come in because her mother had died. The following day she was spotted driving in down with her 'dead' mother in the car beside her.

She used also give grinds. One of my mother's colleagues sent her son to her for extra tuition and he refused to go back after the second time because she had him feeding her mother and putting turf on the fire.
She had majorly stinky poo breath, if you sat two rows ahead of her at mass you could smell her demon breath. My father experienced this and said 'Saturday's morning on Sunday's breath'

You couldn't use the toilets in the fifth year pre-fab for their intended purpose because there were three girls in each cubicle, two smoking down the toilet and one on the toilet bowl keeping lookout through the window for the principal, who was tall with white hair.

It was a school in the Midlands, if you went there you'd know which school I was talking about

nesf

Undecided

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What about the willing, determined child whose parents cannot afford to send them to a private school?

If they are bright and motivated then they probably don't need small classes and could do fine just on their own efforts. Even just being bright and picking your subjects according to your strengths will grab you a lot of LC points to be fair.

JC 2K3

Undecided

If that's true, then what is Sonnenblumen's point?

nesf

Undecided

Your guess is as good as mine to be honest.

Sonnenblumen

No

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What about the willing, determined child whose parents cannot afford to send them to a private school?

What about them indeed? I mean if people choose to have children, they are also taking on all the responsibilities that goes with it including the cost of private education, where to live, how to provide a loving and caring environment etc etc.

Wanting and having the best are usually different.

dame

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

What about them indeed? I mean if people choose to have children, they are also taking on all the responsibilities that goes with it including the cost of private education, where to live, how to provide a loving and caring environment etc etc.

Wanting and having the best are usually different.

Right, so people shouldn't have kids unless they can afford private education?............Snob alert!

Sonnenblumen

No

nesf wrote: »

If they are bright and motivated then they probably don't need small classes and could do fine just on their own efforts. Even just being bright and picking your subjects according to your strengths will grab you a lot of LC points to be fair.

Such bright ones tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Also the picking of LC subjects is quite limiting. Fundamentally you are being wishful and ignoring a number of points. The public sysytem is fraught with difficulties and becoming increasingly more problematic. I mean the Holier than Thou PC Brigades if they succeed will replace an acknowledged well run Irish state (mainly religious ie Christian) with a Dolly Mixture of creeds and languages and ultimately it is the Irish children wihich will suffer.

It is there to be seen in several areas, the Irish child is at risk of becoming an alien within the local school system.

Sonnenblumen

No

dame wrote: »

Right, so people shouldn't have kids unless they can afford private education?............Snob alert!

No more snobbish than wanting to live in a nice house in a nice area. And yes more and more people are choosing NOT to have kids because they want to live a particular life. Is that UNSNOBBISH - hardly?

JC 2K3

Undecided

So you essentially think children deserve to suffer if their parents aren't up to the job of raising them well?

Your way of thinking is exactly the mindset which the private school system produces - disregard for the less fortunate and the inability to view people as simply people without taking their financial status into acount.

dame

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

So you essentially think children deserve to suffer if their parents aren't up to the job of raising them well?

Your way of thinking is exactly the mindset which the private school system produces - disregard for the less fortunate and the inability to view people as simply people without taking their financial status into acount.

Well said JC 2K3

Sonnenblumen

No

JC 2K3 wrote: »

So you essentially think children deserve to suffer if their parents aren't up to the job of raising them well?

Your way of thinking is exactly the mindset which the private school system produces - disregard for the less fortunate and the inability to view people as simply people without taking their financial status into acount.

Twisted logic, I never said that any child deserves to suffer. If the parents fail the child who's to blame? One's with money or those with no morals?

This country like England has for too long made it too possible for irresponsible people to have children. It is the Welfare State syndrome gone wrong, dreadfully wrong and children suffer as a result.

arbeitsscheuer

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

This country like England has for too long made it too possible for irresponsible people to have children. It is the Welfare State syndrome gone wrong, dreadfully wrong and children suffer as a result.

Whoa.
Just... Whoa.

And you accuse JC 2k3 of using "twisted logic"?

Jesus Christ.

ryanairzer

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Twisted logic, I never said that any child deserves to suffer. If the parents fail the child who's to blame? One's with money or those with no morals?

This country like England has for too long made it too possible for irresponsible people to have children. It is the Welfare State syndrome gone wrong, dreadfully wrong and children suffer as a result.

So what you're saying is no children deserve to suffer, but if they have bad parents they should? wtf

Creachadóir

Undecided

It is very unusual for an unqualified Primary School Teacher to get a rolling contract now. There are too many qualified primary teachers in the country, and a Principal cannot hire an unqualified person if a qualified person applies for the position. All teaching positions must be advertised.

The wages in a number of the private schools are LESS than in public schools. Some staff do not get paid for the summer like they would in public schools. There are rumours that the working conditions in private schools are not as good as public schools. Therefore, it would be unusual for a teacher to take a position in a private school over a public school (in the Primary section).

I know of a person teaching Honours L.C. Chemistry and Maths in a private school, and she only studied Chemistry in first year in college (and only studied Biology based subjects after that). She didn't study honours maths for the L.C. herself. As far as I'm aware, most public schools only allow a teacher to teach as far as J.C. level if the teacher only studied a subject in first year in college.

Sonnenblumen

No

ryanairzer wrote: »

So what you're saying is no children deserve to suffer, but if they have bad parents they should? wtf

Try reading again.

Terry

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Twisted logic, I never said that any child deserves to suffer. If the parents fail the child who's to blame? One's with money or those with no morals?

This country like England has for too long made it too possible for irresponsible people to have children. It is the Welfare State syndrome gone wrong, dreadfully wrong and children suffer as a result.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Try reading again.

What I got from that is that you believe that poor people have no morals.

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Don't teachers all receive the same training, irrespective of whether they work in private or public schools?
And of course those who go to private schools excel - their parents can afford to pay for grinds and revision courses in those money-grabbing "tuition centres".
I believe it boils down to the facilities on offer, and the individual. Non fee-paying schools can offer excellent facilities, and private schools can offer no facilities. E.g. I went to a non fee-paying girls school in Cork that has excellent facilities, and there is only one private all-girls school in Cork - total sh*t-box with no facilities. Where does the money go? And why don't parents refuse to send their daughters there? Because they're bloody snobs, it's the only private girls school in Cork city, and God forbid that they'd send their girls to non fee-paying schools. Admittedly, some people probably send their daughters there because of family tradition, or they may have ties to the place, or a parent might work there.
On the other hand, my brothers went to a private school because there weren't any public schools nearby with such good facilities. Well there was one but we were outside the catchment area. If we were within it though, they would definitely have gone there.

Sonnenblumen

No

Terry wrote: »

What I got from that is that you believe that poor people have no morals.

I didn't say that either, and we are drifting from the main point. But to respond, in circumstances where adults have children despite being unable (for whatever reason - and financial resources is only one of a number) to provide safe, secure, caring and nurturing environment, then in such circumstances such people are demonstrating little morality.

On the otherhand, heroin junkies demonstrate no morals in giving birth to babies with heroin dependency etc.

If a children suffers it is the parents that should be held to account for such suffering. Lack of resources is not an excuse.

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

As I said, my brothers went to a private school, and it turned them into insufferable snobbish brats for a while, but thankfully they grew out of it. However, many of their peers didn't.

nesf

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Such bright ones tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Also the picking of LC subjects is quite limiting. Fundamentally you are being wishful and ignoring a number of points. The public sysytem is fraught with difficulties and becoming increasingly more problematic. I mean the Holier than Thou PC Brigades if they succeed will replace an acknowledged well run Irish state (mainly religious ie Christian) with a Dolly Mixture of creeds and languages and ultimately it is the Irish children wihich will suffer.

It is there to be seen in several areas, the Irish child is at risk of becoming an alien within the local school system.

JC 2K3 asked about willing determined children, my point is that the bright ones will be fine. Most of the issues you are bringing up have more to do with the nature of school systems than anything about the public/private divide. There is some research that suggests that adolescence is as much a product giving teens only other teens as peers as anything else.

Terry

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I didn't say that either, and we are drifting from the main point. But to respond, in circumstances where adults have children despite being unable (for whatever reason - and financial resources is only one of a number) to provide safe, secure, caring and nurturing environment, then in such circumstances such people are demonstrating little morality.

On the otherhand, heroin junkies demonstrate no morals in giving birth to babies with heroin dependency etc.

If a children suffers it is the parents that should be held to account for such suffering. Lack of resources is not an excuse.

So do you want people to go the abstinance route or the abortion route?

Should it only be people who can afford to spend four or five grand a year who are allowed to have children?

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

|Cookies wrote: »

6 Grand a year for the school i went to, kept the scum out anyway!

What a repulsive comment :mad: So being scum automatically means you won't have money - I think you'll find that's not QUITE the case. Your mindset - that rich equals respectable, poor equals scum - is just laughable.
Also, the facilities in your school can be found in non fee-paying schools too. In fact, the only school that I know of with next to no facilities is the private girls school in Cork city.
And (I need to put this in caps to attract attention): WHERE DOES THE NOTION COME FROM THAT TEACHERS IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE BETTER? DON'T ALL TEACHERS RECEIVE THE SAME TRAINING?

Sonnenblumen

No

Terry wrote: »

So do you want people to go the abstinance route or the abortion route?

Should it only be people who can afford to spend four or five grand a year who are allowed to have children?

Terry - stay on topic and let's have less of the emotive deflections.

The world would be better for children if more adults took more responsibility for their actions.

dotsman

No

Dudess wrote: »

Don't teachers all receive the same training, irrespective of whether they work in private or public schools?
And of course those who go to private schools excel - their parents can afford to pay for grinds and revision courses in those money-grabbing "tuition centres".
I believe it boils down to the facilities on offer, and the individual. Non fee-paying schools can offer excellent facilities, and private schools can offer no facilities. E.g. I went to a non fee-paying girls school in Cork that has excellent facilities, and there is only one private all-girls school in Cork - total sh*t-box with no facilities. Where does the money go? And why don't parents refuse to send their daughters there? Because they're bloody snobs, it's the only private girls school in Cork city, and God forbid that they'd send their girls to non fee-paying schools. Admittedly, some people probably send their daughters there because of family tradition, or they may have ties to the place, or a parent might work there.
On the other hand, my brothers went to a private school because there weren't any public schools nearby with such good facilities. Well there was one but we were outside the catchment area. If we were within it though, they would definitely have gone there.

Back in my school days, I was friends with a lot of Scoil Mhuire girls, and very few were snobs. Every single one of them (of the ones I was friendly with) ended up working in top class professions (lawyers, doctors, dentists, pharmacists and accountants and even one actuary! etc)

You have to admit, there must be doing something right in the school...

To be honest, your description of them all as snobs says more about you than them:eek:

Oh, and they were (in my day anyway) the hottest girls school (followed closely by angelas across the road):D

Agree with the "total sh*t-box with no facilities" though;)

Sonnenblumen

No

nesf wrote: »

JC 2K3 asked about willing determined children, my point is that the bright ones will be fine. Most of the issues you are bringing up have more to do with the nature of school systems than anything about the public/private divide. There is some research that suggests that adolescence is as much a product giving teens only other teens as peers as anything else.

By the time the child gets to 'pick' LC subjects, he/she would have spent 10-11 years in school and with 2 more to go. By that stage any shortcomings will certainly have been well and truely manifested.

Environments have a huge bearing on individual development, school, home, neighbourhood etc etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the variance between growing up in a 'privileged' area versus an 'under-privileged' area. Arguing that gifted kids will excell no matter what the environment or conditions are like is besides the point. Exceptions do not make the rules.

What do you understand to be the public/private divide?

I would also like to know more about the 'school systems' you refer to.

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

dotsman wrote: »

To be honest, your description of them all as snobs says more about you than them

No, I know plenty of Scoil Mhuire girls and they're lovely. I'm referring to the parents though. As I said, unless you've ties to the school, a family history, you're working there etc, why on earth would you send your daughter to such a dump? Could it possibly be, I wonder, due to the fact that it's the only private girls school in Cork city and you COULDN'T be sending them to a non fee-paying school?!

Oh, and they were (in my day anyway) the hottest girls school (followed closely by angelas across the road)

Yeah, my brothers (Pres boys) used always say that. I went to St Al's - more known for its rough element! It still had excellent facilities though, and there were plenty of great girls in my year. It is a shame all right that it got a bad rep because of a small element, most of whom dropped out after third year anyway.

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Yes I do - having money means upper-class :rolleyes: and upper-class means respectable, mannerly, incapable of being boorish, loutish, violent, aggressive. Of course. Only poor people fit into those categories. No Blackrock College boy has ever committed an act of violence...

Also, the use of the term "upper-class" - only the aristocracy are upper-class. Despite your delusions of grandeur, people who are rich but not lords, ladies etc are middle-class or upper middle-class.

Terry

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Terry - stay on topic and let's have less of the emotive deflections.

The world would be better for children if more adults took more responsibility for their actions.

That's not an answer to my questions.

nesf

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I would also like to know more about the 'school systems' you refer to.

The article in Scientific American (I think?) talked about the idea of classes based on age and the difference in mentality between teenagers of the same age being essentially lumped in together versus more traditional societies where it's common for them to go working with adults and essentially socialise and act as adults because they are treated as such.

It's interesting to consider the question of whether keeping everyone in school until 15 or 18 is actually a good thing. It seems to just be assumed to be true by most people I've talked to. It leads to awkward questions like, is a plumber a better plumber because he studied Hamlet?

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

What do you understand to be the public/private divide?

The idea that kids whose parents can pay for private schools automatically receive a better education. Similar to how if you can afford health insurance that you get better healthcare.

Thankfully we're not in the situation where you would need to pay fees or buy health insurance for your kids to receive education or healthcare, which is worth keeping in mind.

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

So the only reason really for sending your kids to a private school is: you may as well pay for it if you have the money - yeah! Just think how rich you'll look to the neighbours!
As for the car analogy (which I think you got backwards): to me, a car is functional, so I'd just pay for whatever gets me from A to B. Better than blowing a fortune on something else that does the exact same thing.

nesf

Undecided

Dudess wrote: »

So the only reason really for sending your kids to a private school is: you may as well pay for it if you have the money - yeah! Just think how rich you'll look to the neighbours!

No, in fairness he said if you have the money then why not. Which is very different to the people who take out loans just so they can say their kid is in Blackrock or whatever.

Nuttzz

No

i went to davids in artane, an absolute sh1t hole, 2 weeks before the leaving cert 3 teachers told me not to attempt the honours papers i was studying as i wasnt up to it. Had i followed their advise i would have never have go into college (got a b2,c1 &d1 as it turned out) it will be fee paying for me even if it breaks me....

dotsman

No

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, my brothers (Pres boys)

Pres boy as well:D

Dudess wrote: »

why on earth would you send your daughter to such a dump? Could it possibly be, I wonder, due to the fact that it's the only private girls school in Cork city and you COULDN'T be sending them to a non fee-paying school?!

I think the reason why (most) parents send their girls to that school was the same reason my parents sent my sisters to that school. Because of the environment - a child can still be a great student no matter what school they are in, but they are more likely to excel when surrounded by similar peers. For me, had I gone to another school (with, say, a worse reputation) I might still be where I am today, but there is also the chance that the friends I would have maid in said school would not have been as academic/ambitious and may have "dragged" me down to their level.

In going to Pres, I was surrounded, not by peers asking "will I do a 3rd level course?", but by peers asking "which top course am I aiming for?". I have to say that some teachers were great, some were poor - probably the same as most schools. The reason Pres has such a high record is because of the students themselves. The "peer pressure" (a term usually used to describe a bad thing) was to get the best results possible and to get into the course that you want - and not settle for "middle of the road".

The parents of all my friends (and my parents) had gotten to where they were in life (being able to pay the fees:D) by studying hard and working hard. This home environment, seconded by that school environment, was/is the most conducive to a kid excelling academically. To me, fee-paying schools are simply about increasing the chance of the kid ending up in college.

Oh and on a side note, I'm out of Pres 8 years, and people are amazed at how close I am still with my school buddies (i.e. very close with 9-10 and keep in touch with another 10-15). I know many people who within a year or 2 of leaving school, don't keep in contact with anyone!