Andy Reid.

Raskolnikov

Since Duff has become, well, duff, I've always maintained that Andy Reid is the best technical player that Ireland have. Tonight, he showed what a class act he is. Right from the go, when he sung our national anthem loudest to the final whistle, he was a talisman. His passing was simply amazing and the German's could simply not take the ball off him all tonight. Andy Reid is one of the few players (perhaps only) who can create chances for us. We saw it each and every time Andy got the ball, the crowd sensed that Andy was a cut above the rest of team. I might be after a few pints, but watch Andy play tonight reminds me of the pride I held for our lads during the previous sucessful world cups!

So yea; please, can everyone can this nonsense about Andy being fat/unfit/overweight/etc. Even when he was puffing and wheezing in the 89th minute, he still looked like our best player and his attitude and commitment was exceptional. It's criminal how he was previously omitted.

Snake Plisken

Yeah he is a great player was very sorry to see him never get a real chance while playing for Spurs, Jol never gave him a real chance either did some sections of the Spurs fans.

Pepe LeFrits

Agreed, he was a class above every other Irish attacking player (and German too, bar Podolski) tonight.

KdjaCL

Raskolnikov wrote: »

So yea; please, can everyone can this nonsense about Andy being fat/unfit/overweight/etc. Even when he was puffing and wheezing in the 89th minute, he still looked like our best player and his attitude and commitment was exceptional. It's criminal how he was previously omitted.

When you put it like that , that our best player (i agree he was outstanding) is a fat overweight pub player who cant run. He has the technique to be one of the most gifted irish players ever (i seen brady and giles) his vision is on a level far beyond the rest of the team.

The simple fact he cannot get himself fit pretty much sums him up, how on gods earth as a pro footballer can you be overweight

Another waste of talent.


kdjac

leninbenjamin

what i noticed tonight: He showed that he is the only Irish player who has the vision to make the passes our forwards need. Overweight or not, we'll never be close to a complete team without him in the near future. However, he hasn't got the legs to get on the end of things. he'd play the perfect pass to Keane or Doyle or whoever, but just doesn't make those runs to support them in front of the goal. That's what prevents him from becoming a very good player in my eyes.

What i did see tonight though was him making some great challenges, which i never really saw in his game before. perhaps in the long run, he can sit deep and protect the back four while spraying his great passing, and then have someone like Ireland in front of him who has the mentality to support the front men. then again, i've not really paid much attention to Reid, so you may have all come to that conclusion years ago.

Daysha

KdjaCL wrote: »

When you put it like that , that our best player (i agree he was outstanding) is a fat overweight pub player who cant run. He has the technique to be one of the most gifted irish players ever (i seen brady and giles) his vision is on a level far beyond the rest of the team.

The simple fact he cannot get himself fit pretty much sums him up, how on gods earth as a pro footballer can you be overweight

Another waste of talent.


kdjac

So you think he was outstanding, yet still label him another wasted talent

eirebhoy

I opened a thread on this a few days ago and came on here to bump it up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055161322

I remember getting a taxi from the Slovak airport to the city centre with another 3 lads. The Slovak taxi driver was asking us who our best player was. I was laughed at when I said Andy Reid. He has certainly proven tonight that he's the best player we have. I'm pretty sure the players would trust Reid with the ball more than anyone.

tdv

If he's such a great player why is he playing in the Championship for Charlton? He just looks great next to the muppets he's playing beside.

~Rebel~

tdv wrote: »

If he's such a great player why is he playing in the Championship for Charlton? He just looks great next to the muppets he's playing beside.

He was at them in the premiership, but missed most of the season through injury. Also looked their best player whenever he free from injury. Unfortunately they got relegated and he stayed with them. Sounds to be one of the best players in the championship right now anyway.

eirebhoy

tdv wrote: »

If he's such a great player why is he playing in the Championship for Charlton. He just looks great next to muppets he's playing beside.

How can't you realise Reid's class after tonights performance? He reads the game as well as the best players in the world.

In reply to your post. Injuries. I think Martin Jol is the only manager he has that didn't realise how good Reid was. He told us Reid was one of the fittest players at Spurs but he showed himself up by not copping on that Reid is a central midfielder.

Anyway, I won't build the guy up too much. I think he's on par with someone like Emre but I rate Emre highly.

kinaldo

eirebhoy wrote: »

Anyway, I won't build the guy up too much. I think he's on par with someone like Emre but I rate Emre highly.

The Irish Maradona!?

or the Irish Teletubbie?

http://www.lukewhostalking.co.uk/2007/10/emre_the_turkish_teletubbie.html

Unearthly

He definitly seems best at centre midfield, I remember thinking he was quite rubbish out on the wings a few times seeing him. His eye for a pass is invaluable

The whole overweight issue seems like desperation to point out something negative in what was an excellent performance

eirebhoy

kinaldo wrote: »

The Irish Maradona!?

or the Irish Teletubbie?

http://www.lukewhostalking.co.uk/2007/10/emre_the_turkish_teletubbie.html

I talked about confidence in another thread. That's one thing Reid has over Emre. Reid doesn't know the meaning of the word confidence. Other than that they're clones.

MrJoeSoap

Definitely one of the best Irish players at the moment, Keane is great when he's on form but Reid is a class act on the ball and always has been. He won't take people on and beat them but he can pass the ball long like no other player on the team and was the only player who consistently made attempts to carve the Germans apart tonight. If only he were fitter he would be really top-class and very highly valued (in monetary terms that is).

Still, he's a great player to have.

Im_No_Superman

Quality performance by Reid tonight, pity the pitch didnt suit him in slovakia (according to Stan) :rolleyes:
Hopefully he gets a run in the starting 11 now (state of pitches permitting!).

tdv

eirebhoy wrote: »

How can't you realise Reid's class after tonights performance? He reads the game as well as the best players in the world.

In reply to your post. Injuries. I think Martin Jol is the only manager he has that didn't realise how good Reid was. He told us Reid was one of the fittest players at Spurs but he showed himself up by not copping on that Reid is a central midfielder.

Anyway, I won't build the guy up too much. I think he's on par with someone like Emre but I rate Emre highly.

Well then he should be looking for a move to a top side. I think its just an Irish thing tho always settle for second best. This whole Stan scenario has really helped me understand what Keane was going about with Ireland always just being content for finishing second best & never trying to move up to a higher level. 2002 WC 2nd round knock-out & we have a big party for the players even tho we didnt do anything to celebrate. If England get knocked out of the 2nd round it would be considered a disaster & Englands players arent that much better than Irelands. We should have moved foward from the 2002 WC & tried to go even futher in Euro 2004 we could have won that because the teams in that tournament were rubbish. This whole disaster were in now goes alot deeper than Steve Staunton & his sh!te. Its about the Irish & there loosing mentality.

d22ontour

Im_No_Superman wrote: »

Quality performance by Reid tonight, pity the pitch didnt suit him in slovakia (according to Stan) :rolleyes:
Hopefully he gets a run in the starting 11 now (state of pitches permitting!).

Seriously that isn't funny no matter what spin Stan puts on it....but still i laughed at the pitches permitting bit.

MrJoeSoap

tdv wrote: »

Englands players arent that much better than Irelands.

The combined value of the first-choice england side would probably push about £200m. Irelands?

It's about differing perspectives and expectations, we've only ever qualified for three World Cups and we're a nation of roughly four million people. We can't realistically expect to win the World Cup. When we do reasonably well there is cause to celebrate, and to be honest, the Irish rarely even need a reason to go out and get drunk.

I don't think we accept second best, maybe the FAI do, but the general public tend to have their head screwed on and realise our limitations. Almost all the countries who have won the WC have a population ten times greater than ours or more.

Keane was right to an extent in that if you fail to prepare properly you are "preparing to fail". But again, that was more an FAI thing than anything else. The Irish footballing public want things to go well and always want to win.

In terms of Andy Reid, maybe there are any number of reasons he wants to stay at Charlton, who knows? He didn't do well at Spurs because he was part of possibly the biggest midfield in the history of football. A mid-range Premiership side with European aspirations would be perfect for him, the likes of Everton or Villa perhaps. I'm sure there is no lack of interest given the way he has played this season, but for the moment he seems happy enough at Charlton. Anyway, Ireland fans shouldn't worry where he plays once he plays as well as he did for us tonight on a consistent basis.

Unearthly

tdv wrote: »

Well then he should be looking for a move to a top side. I think its just an Irish thing tho always settle for second best. This whole Stan scenario has really helped me understand what Keane was going about with Ireland always just being content for finishing second best & never trying to move up to a higher level. 2002 WC 2nd round knock-out & we have a big party for the players even tho we didnt do anything to celebrate. If England get knocked out of the 2nd round it would be considered a disaster & Englands players arent that much better than Irelands. We should have moved foward from the 2002 WC & tried to go even futher in Euro 2004 we could have won that because the teams in that tournament were rubbish. This whole disaster were in now goes alot deeper than Steve Staunton & his sh!te. Its about the Irish & there loosing mentality.

The Irish fans and media have slated the Irish team since 2002 bar a few of Kerrs early competitive matches. We are hardly "settling for 2nd best" by asking for changes in management of all levels in the FAI all the time.

I don't agree with England having slightly better players, they have much better players. Shay Given is the only player that would get into their team in my opinion

I do agree that celebrations were a bit too much after WC2002 but considering the mess we were in before the 1st match kicked off, getting knocked out by Spain on penos in the knockout stages was pretty damn good for this country.

eirebhoy

tdv wrote: »

Well then he should be looking for a move to a top side. I think its just an Irish thing tho always settle for second best.

I couldn't be arsed debating it with you. You don't think Reid is as good as I do. Fair dues. We haven't had a central midfielder as creative as Reid in a long, long time though.

tdv

Unearthly wrote: »

The Irish fans and media have slated the Irish team since 2002 bar a few of Kerrs early competitive matches. We are hardly "settling for 2nd best" by asking for changes in management of all levels in the FAI all the time.

I don't agree with England having slightly better players, they have much better players. Shay Given is the only player that would get into their team in my opinion
I do agree that celebrations were a bit too much after WC2002 but considering the mess we were in before the 1st match kicked off, getting knocked out by Spain on penos in the knockout stages was pretty damn good for this country.

Well we've not complained enough than because the management at all levels in the FAI is still sh!te & has been for some time now.

Most of Englands players are very overrated like Wayne Rooney. I mean whats Rooney ever done? He scores some nice chips every blue moon but thats it.

And we should have built on that & tried go futher in future tournaments but too many people were happy not to go one better & just keep the memories of that tournament.

Damien Duff leaves Chelsea because a few new players come in & he dosent believe in himself & settles for a lesser club. SWP has never got regular football at Chelsea but he's worked hard & is trying to fight for his place in the team & to better himself instead of running away when things get though. Loosing mentality.

Ried & Carrick. Ried is probally a better player. Carrick goes to Man United Ried to Charlton. Loosing mentality.

tdv

eirebhoy wrote: »

I couldn't be arsed debating it with you. You don't think Reid is as good as I do. Fair dues. We haven't had a central midfielder as creative as Reid in a long, long time though.

This is what I'm talking about. Ried has a good game and all of a sudden he's a national treasure. So what he had a good game big deal get over it. Yeah he's creative & he can play but whats all the praise for if we have nothing to show for it at the end of the day?

MrJoeSoap

tdv wrote: »

Most of Englands players are very overrated like Wayne Rooney. I mean whats Rooney ever done? He scores some nice chips every blue moon but thats it.

With Manchester United (2004 - present)

* Premier League - Champions: 2006-07
* League Cup Winner: 2006
* FA Cup Runners Up: 2005, 2007
* Community Shield: 2007

Personal Honours:

* Barclays Player of the Month: February 2005, December 2005, March 2006
* PFA Team of the Year: 2005-06
* Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year: 2005-06
* FIFPro Young Player of the Year: 2005
* FIFPro World Young Player of the Year: 2005
* PFA Young Player of the Year: 2005, 2006
* PFA Fans' Player of the Year (Premiership): 2006
* Match of the Day's Goal of the Season: 2004-05, 2006-07

tdv

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

With Manchester United (2004 - present)

* Premier League - Champions: 2006-07
* League Cup Winner: 2006
* FA Cup Runners Up: 2005, 2007
* Community Shield: 2007
Personal Honours:

* Barclays Player of the Month: February 2005, December 2005, March 2006
* PFA Team of the Year: 2005-06
* Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year: 2005-06
* FIFPro Young Player of the Year: 2005
* FIFPro World Young Player of the Year: 2005
* PFA Young Player of the Year: 2005, 2006
* PFA Fans' Player of the Year (Premiership): 2006
* Match of the Day's Goal of the Season: 2004-05, 2006-07

John O'shea has them aswell. The rest is just hype.

eirebhoy

tdv wrote: »

This is what I'm talking about. Ried has a good game and all of a sudden he's a national treasure. So what he had a good game big deal get over it.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I regarded Reid as our best player before the Slovak game. He clearly is. My favourite player in the world is Shunsuke Nakamura. He said in an interview with Setanta that the most important part of a football player is from the neck up (ie. the head/brain). Not only is Andy Reid miles ahead of every other Irish player in that department but he's also the most technically gifted player, by a long shot.

tdv

eirebhoy wrote: »

Maybe you missed the part where I said I regarded Reid as our best player before the Slovak game.

Well when was his last great performance for Ireland in a big game?

eirebhoy

tdv wrote: »

Well when was his last great performance for Ireland in a big game?

Reid has always played well for us.

I hate to sound like a príck but I think you're showing yourself up if you can't recognise how good Reid is.

tdv

eirebhoy wrote: »

Maybe you missed the part where I said I regarded Reid as our best player before the Slovak game. He clearly is. My favourite player in the world is Shunsuke Nakamura. He said in an interview with Setanta that the most important part of a football player is from the neck up (ie. the head/brain). Not only is Andy Reid miles ahead of every other Irish player in that department but he's also the most technically gifted player, by a long shot.

Yes I know he's a good player technically but you have to ask yourself is he the answer to Irelands problems? No. He wasnt tonignt & he wasnt in Prague & he wont be in the future.

Its not so much the players abillitys I'm getting rather there mentality.

tdv

eirebhoy wrote: »

Reid has always played well for us.

I hate to sound like a príck but I think you're showing yourself up if you can't recognise how good Reid is.

Well I cant & you cant either because he's playing with very average players & its easy to look great when your playing with & against such normal players week in week out.

Unearthly

Well we've not complained enough than because the management at all levels in the FAI is still sh!te & has been for some time now.

How exactly are people supposed to get it changed?

Most of Englands players are very overrated like Wayne Rooney. I mean whats Rooney ever done? He scores some nice chips every blue moon but thats it.

Well for a start he has been an integral part of Man Utd, one of the best teams in the world for over 3 years and he is only 21. If he plays well, Man Utd play well, which says alot about a player. He has strenght, pace, excellent 1st touch, great football brain and his scoring record is good for a striker who comes short. Not only do I rate him, but so did most fans, journalists, pundits etc

And we should have built on that & tried go futher in future tournaments but too many people were happy not to go one better & just keep the memories of that tournament.

People booed the team after the Swiss defeat at Landsdown late 2002. The memories were gone by then.

Damien Duff leaves Chelsea because a few new players come in & he dosent believe in himself & settles for a lesser club. SWP has never got regular football at Chelsea but he's worked hard & is trying to fight for his place in the team & to better himself instead of running away when things get though. Loosing mentality.

I don't really know how this is relevant. Ignoring the fact that you don't know Duffs reasons for going to Newcastle, or if he was forced out or not, it's not exactly fair to say it represents Ireland mentality. Scott Parker went to Newcastle after Chelsea, does he represent England? What about Duffs original reason for going to Chelsea? is that loosing mentality?

Ried & Carrick. Ried is probally a better player. Carrick goes to Man United Ried to Charlton. Loosing mentality.

Or perhaps Carrick is a far better allround player and had the opportunity to go to Man Utd?

MrJoeSoap

Talent is easy to spot regardless of the game. Like Wes Hoolahan at Shels. Or Rooney when he was in the Everton youths. My dad was going on about Rooney long before his debut, because there was such a buzz about him amongst Everton fans.

To be honest TDV, you're criticising or questioning Reids ability, but at the same time saying "Whats Rooney ever done?"

You aren't making it easy for yourself.

~Rebel~

tdv wrote: »

This is what I'm talking about. Ried has a good game and all of a sudden he's a national treasure. So what he had a good game big deal get over it. Yeah he's creative & he can play but whats all the praise for if we have nothing to show for it at the end of the day?

In fairness Eirebhoy has been saying this for a long long time, not just after todays performance.

I dont get your last statement at all.

"Yeah he's creative & he can play but whats all the praise for if we have nothing to show for it at the end of the day?"

What does this mean? The praise is obviously because he put in a great performance. Do you think people dont deserve praise if they dont win things? One man can have a great game but due to something like his fellow players, or the opponants great defending, his team loses. So he suddenly doesnt deserve credit for what he did?

Do you honestly think Irish people are naturally limited? Are we a second class species or something? Because thats all im getting from what you're saying. You're just taking random examples of Irish somewhat failures, and comparing them to English success. Do you think Irish people are inherantly worse then English people? I like to think you cant tar a whole nation with the same brush.

Did Roy Keanes natural Irish failings stop him becoming the most expensive player in england when he joined Man Utd? Or Kevin Moran when he rose to the top? Or McGrath? Or Doyle when he went from the Eircom League to the premiership in a very successful jump over 2 years? Hunt fighting his way into the Reading team, taking his chance and fighting his way into the Irish team as well?

Its easy to pick sucess's and failures, irrespective of nationality. Its not as simple as "all irish settle for mediocrity". Yes, theres more failure stories then success stories (as with all nationalities) but thats just the price of a career in football, there's not a lot of room at the top so only the very best make it. Everyone on the Irish team is incredibly high up the food chain as far as it goes. They're good enough to be rich for life. Doesn't sound like mediocrity to me.

And on Reid in particular, he had incredibly bad luck with injuries, unfortunately had trouble breaking into the Spurs team on the right, and with the emergence of Aaron Lennon he moved to another team in the premiership who were consistantly mid table. Unfortunately he again suffered serious injuries, was out for the bones of a year and charlton were relegated in his absence. But with him in midfield they're currently in 2nd in the league and fighting to return to the top flight. He doesn't look to be accepting mediocrity with his performances for them either. What more can he do to move back up the food chain but put in solid performances?

[/angry reply]

Not sure why i bothered. If you cant recognise quality play from Reid, and claim Rooney is nothing but hype, then im not sure theres any hope. Im a liverpool fan and even i can readily and sadly admit that Rooney is quality.

Snake Plisken

KdjaCL wrote: »

When you put it like that , that our best player (i agree he was outstanding) is a fat overweight pub player who cant run. He has the technique to be one of the most gifted irish players ever (i seen brady and giles) his vision is on a level far beyond the rest of the team.

The simple fact he cannot get himself fit pretty much sums him up, how on gods earth as a pro footballer can you be overweight

Another waste of talent.


kdjac

Well Gazza did pretty well and he was overweight as is Rooney, so your talkin crap bud! But hey Brady & Giles must be idiots who know nothing about soccer as they seem to rate him alot higher then your intelligent description of him as a "Fat Overweight Pub Footballer"!!!

shane86

Im_No_Superman wrote: »

Quality performance by Reid tonight, pity the pitch didnt suit him in slovakia (according to Stan) :rolleyes:
Hopefully he gets a run in the starting 11 now (state of pitches permitting!).

Ah Stan, always with a bizarre assesment of affairs. I hope he told the lads doing up Landsdowne to make the grass Reid- compatible, unlike that pesky Slovak grass.

Deffo Reids finest hour tonight, played his arse off.

tdv

~Rebel~ wrote: »

In fairness Eirebhoy has been saying this for a long long time, not just after todays performance.

I dont get your last statement at all.

"Yeah he's creative & he can play but whats all the praise for if we have nothing to show for it at the end of the day?"

What does this mean? The praise is obviously because he put in a great performance. Do you think people dont deserve praise if they dont win things? One man can have a great game but due to something like his fellow players, or the opponants great defending, his team loses. So he suddenly doesnt deserve credit for what he did?

Do you honestly think Irish people are naturally limited? Are we a second class species or something? Because thats all im getting from what you're saying. You're just taking random examples of Irish somewhat failures, and comparing them to English success. Do you think Irish people are inherantly worse then English people? I like to think you cant tar a whole nation with the same brush.

Did Roy Keanes natural Irish failings stop him becoming the most expensive player in england when he joined Man Utd? Or Kevin Moran when he rose to the top? Or McGrath? Or Doyle when he went from the Eircom League to the premiership in a very successful jump over 2 years? Hunt fighting his way into the Reading team, taking his chance and fighting his way into the Irish team as well?

Its easy to pick sucess's and failures, irrespective of nationality. Its not as simple as "all irish settle for mediocrity". Yes, theres more failure stories then success stories (as with all nationalities) but thats just the price of a career in football, there's not a lot of room at the top so only the very best make it. Everyone on the Irish team is incredibly high up the food chain as far as it goes. They're good enough to be rich for life. Doesn't sound like mediocrity to me.

And on Reid in particular, he had incredibly bad luck with injuries, unfortunately had trouble breaking into the Spurs team on the right, and with the emergence of Aaron Lennon he moved to another team in the premiership who were consistantly mid table. Unfortunately he again suffered serious injuries, was out for the bones of a year and charlton were relegated in his absence. But with him in midfield they're currently in 2nd in the league and fighting to return to the top flight. He doesn't look to be accepting mediocrity with his performances for them either. What more can he do to move back up the food chain bad put in solid performances?

[/angry reply]

Not sure why i bothered. If you cant recognise quality play from Reid, and claim Rooney is nothing but hype, then im not sure theres any hope. Im a liverpool fan and even i can readily and sadly admit that Rooney is quality.

Wayne Rooney can do great things no doubt about it but I said he's very overrated & he is. There's tons of great talent out there that dont get as much hype as Rooney. Aguero, Benzema, Dos Santos, Nasri, Pato etc... lots of of young players out there who are as good as Rooney but havent been hyped up to the eyeballs like him.

Look at Theo Walcott. One of Arsenals most expensive signings in the past few years & he's nowhere near the level some of there young players are who much cheaper than him. But he's English so he cost more.

Im_No_Superman

Ah Stan, always with a bizarre assesment of affairs. I hope he told the lads doing up Landsdowne to make the grass Reid- compatible, unlike that pesky Slovak grass.

With "Reid compatible grass", Stephen and Andy Reid in the centre of the park, World Cup 2010 hear we come!

Just wondering tdv if Andy Reid isnt the answer to our lack of creativity in the centre of the park who do you think is?

Mr.Nice Guy

tdv wrote: »

Look at Theo Walcott. One of Arsenals most expensive signings in the past few years & he's nowhere near the level some of there young players are who much cheaper than him. But he's English so he cost more.

Theo Walcott's brilliant. Your man on Sky said so.

tdv

Im_No_Superman wrote: »

With "Reid compatible grass", Stephen and Andy Reid in the centre of the park, World Cup 2010 hear we come!

Just wondering tdv if Andy Reid isnt the answer to our lack of creativity in the centre of the park who do you think is?

I didnt say he was the problem to our creativity in the ceneter of the park.

Better & more youth systems, better funding & better management would be a start for Irelands overall problems. Which are not going to sort themselves out some time soon.

tdv

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Theo Walcott's brilliant. Your man on Sky said so.

Well Apres match is the only thing Irish football has to smile about.

~Rebel~

tdv wrote: »

Wayne Rooney can do great things no doubt about it but I said he's very overrated & he is. There's tons of great talent out there that dont get as much hype as Rooney. Aguero, Benzema, Dos Santos, Nasri, Pato etc... lots of of young players out there who are as good as Rooney but havent been hyped up to the eyeballs like him.

Look at Theo Walcott. One of Arsenals most expensive signings in the past few years & he's nowhere near the level some of there young players are who much cheaper than him. But he's English so he cost more.

First of all, Aguero, while very good, is not as good as Rooney. I've watched him a fair bit, and am very impressed, and wish Liverpool followed up on their threat to get him, but he has his limitations from inexperience still. I've no doubt he'll develop into a better player, but he's not on a par with Rooney yet. He's probably the closest of the names you mention to Rooney's development though.

Benzema is another great player. Has come into his own with the exodus of players from Lyon, and from the wing (though he's rreally more of a striker) he's already got a very impressive goal tally. Again though, he's not been doing it at the highest level yet as Rooney has. Again one for the future, but not for the now. Rooney was a far more developed player when he joined Man U.

Dos Santos. Well his inclusion makes little sense. If your giving out about hype how can you include him? Has done nothing at the highest level yet, but is up near the top in terms of hype. Fantastic looking prospect, and would probably cost similar to what Rooney cost to pry him away from Barca. I think it'll be next year he makes his mark. Cant see him forcing his way into barca's team just yet. Yeah, great looking player so far, but way way too early to be saying he's as good as Rooney.

Nasri, same as Benzema, he's playng in the French league, looks good and everything, and again will go places. If you offered me him or Rooney, id have Rooney in the boot of my car before you'd finished the question!

Pato is another hype monster. I've largely only seen him at youth level (U-20 world cup), where to be honest he didn't impress me as much as I was expecting. He did look good, but I thought Aguero looked better. Again, not doing anything to what Rooney has accomplished (playing great at the highest level).

Dont get me wrong, I dont think Rooneyis finished developing yet, but its tough to rate him against any of these, as they're being rated (to use your term) against players that aren't of the highest caliber. Rooney, while still at Everton, showed that he could hack it in one of the best leagues in the world and could shoulder the responsibility of being one a talisman and go-top-guy. Wasn't afraid to stand up and be counted against the likes of Arsenal (THAT Arsenal team and all! Season before they became the invincibles, when Wenger jinxed them by saying they could go unbeaten, till Rooney's goal announced his full arrival.)

Oh and almost forgot Theo. Well Im pretty sure his actual cost is only 7million, which raises based on clauses. Pepe's yer man for the ins and outs of that one though.
Im sure Aguero and Dos Santos would be gone in seconds at a price tag like that. (Aguero went to Atletico for 15million from Independiente)

tdv

Well you say those players I mentioned you said they've never done at the top level & either has Rooney unless you consider teams like Wigan,Bolton Portsmouth etc... the top level. The goals he scored against Roma were his first in the CL league for like 1 1/2 years. And alot of United games last season & Rooneys all round general play was poor. Benzema has played & scored in the CL & he's also played & scored for France. I think Aguero isnt far of from being a top player I think this will be a very big season for him he's 2nd top scorer in La Liga at the moment. Pato is harder to judge because he's played in Brazil for his whole career. I seen him in the WCC last year & he was very impressive. Like I said he's played in Brazil & its harder to judge I think alot of people think he's going to turn out to be another Kerlon or Adu & believe me he wont turn out like them. From what I've seen of him he looks the real deal.

leninbenjamin

tdv i really havn't a notion what you're argument about Reid is. are you saying he's overweight? is over hyped like Rooney? or that he isn't a creative player? or are you saying just because he's playing with Charlton he has settled for second best and therefore cant be a good player? and what does the FAI's ability to nurture talent have anything to do with Reid's own abilities as a player?

Reid ain't perfect, but he's the best we've got. of course if the FAI weren't the shower of idiots that they were we'd have a better system for developing players and whatnot, but we dont, and by the looks of things it isn't going to change anytime soon. so be happy with what you got imo, or go abroad and switch nationality.

Jazzy

i hear he dines with frank lampard

~Rebel~

tdv wrote: »

Well you say those players I mentioned you said they've never done at the top level & either has Rooney unless you consider teams like Wigan,Bolton Portsmouth etc... the top level. The goals he scored against Roma were his first in the CL league for like 1 1/2 years. And alot of United games last season & Rooneys all round general play was poor. Benzema has played & scored in the CL & he's also played & scored for France. I think Aguero isnt far of from being a top player I think this will be a very big season for him he's 2nd top scorer in La Liga at the moment. Pato is harder to judge because he's played in Brazil for his whole career. I seen him in the WCC last year & he was very impressive. Like I said he's played in Brazil & its harder to judge I think alot of people think he's going to turn out to be another Kerlon or Adu & believe me he wont turn out like them. From what I've seen of him he looks the real deal.

Rooney did have a bit of trouble finding the net in the champions league, but none the less still put in impressive performances. Its not all about goals. And he also did well against Milan last year.

Look the bottom line is you dont seem to rate him. Right now I rate him higher then any of the names you mentioned. They may go on to pass him and become incredible players in their own rights, but not yet. Its largely excepted he had a poor season last year by his own high standards. Still got a very nice return of goals and assists though.

AS for Benzema scoring at international level, he got 1 in a friendly, in 1 sub appearance. Thats good and all, but again its not the same level development that Rooney was at, at 19. If we go back to when Rooney was 19, at that point he had 18 international starts and 11 goals. Not to mention 4 goals in 4 games at the European Championships.

I do rate all of these guys highly, im just saying Rooney has been the a very important starter for Manchester United for a while now, as well as well and truly cementing his place in the England team. In some of their poor performances, he was one of the few coming out with any credit, goals or no goals.

Even the fact that he is being compared to the very best youths in the world game suggests he's top class. How can you be surprised that theres more hype about him in England then for Nasri (french), Pato (Brazilian), Aguero (Argentinian) and Benzema (french/algerian). He's English and plays for England. Dont worry, im sure if any of the above were english they'd be hyped to high heaven as well.


<EDIT>
Ach, miles off topic again.

Lets just leave it as, I rate him very highly and would love him in my team, you think he's not proven himself yet.

tdv

leninbenjamin wrote: »

tdv i really havn't a notion what you're argument about Reid is. are you saying he's overweight? is over hyped like Rooney? or that he isn't a creative player? or are you saying just because he's playing with Charlton he has settled for second best and therefore cant be a good player? and what does the FAI's ability to nurture talent have anything to do with Reid's own abilities as a player?

Reid ain't perfect, but he's the best we've got. of course if the FAI weren't the shower of idiots that they were we'd have a better system for developing players and whatnot, but we dont, and by the looks of things it isn't going to change anytime soon. so be happy with what you got imo, or go abroad and switch nationality.

I just dont think Reid is the solution to Irleands problems. Ireland have never been a team to do things creativley anyway. We've had better creative players in the past like Brady & Giles & failed with them. We need someone like Roy Keane someone who wont put the with crap anymore & stand up to Stan the gaffer & his mad bullsh!t. We need a leader & we dont have one. Robbie Keane, Given, Duff are nice people but there not leaders when things arent going right the younger players look lost & they some inspirational figure to turn to.

tdv

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Rooney did have a bit of trouble finding the net in the champions league, but none the less still put in impressive performances. Its not all about goals. And he also did well against Milan last year.

Look the bottom line is you dont seem to rate him. Right now I rate him higher then any of the names you mentioned. They may go on to pass him and become incredible players in their own rights, but not yet. Its largely excepted he had a poor season last year by his own high standards. Still got a very nice return of goals and assists though.

AS for Benzema scoring at international level, he got 1 in a friendly, in 1 sub appearance. Thats good and all, but again its not the same level development that Rooney was at, at 19.

I do rate all of these guys highly, im just saying Rooney has been the a very important starter for Manchester United for a while now, as well as well and truly cementing his place in the England team. In some of their poor performances, he was one of the few coming out with any credit, goals or no goals.

But do you think he has lived up to his hype? Maybe you think he has but I dont. And I dont think any of the players listed have been hyped up as much as Rooney has in terms of there natural ability. Ands not just Rooney either Walcott, Carrick, Pennant all these types of average players have huge price tags over there heads because there English. It wasnt anything against Rooney personally I was just trying to make an example of England players been overrated.

~Rebel~

just edited my last post a bit, adding in Rooney's international stats relative to Benzema's by 19. Vastly superior in Rooney's favour.

Look I dont rate him against "Hype". what exactly is hype anyway? And where is he on the hypomitor? Hype itself is totally based on what you personally hear/read. Some people are bound to get carried away and call him the new mesiah, but thats nought to do with me. Hype has nothing to do with anything in the world of actual football, on the pitch IMO, he's either better/more developed then those players or he isn't. What guys in a studio in London say about him in no way changes my opinion of him.

Without any help from any "hypemachines", merely from my own observations, I can say that I personally rate Wayne Rooney very highly, and again, would love him in my team.

Yes English people get more excited about english players. Because their English. Its not a surprise. Here and in England there wansn't all that much talk about Joaquin (he was rated but not in the papers everyday etc). In Spain he was hyped up to the max, because he's Spanish.

English people take more interest in English players. Its nothing new. Im sure in France people are raving about Benzema and Nasri everywhere, just like the Argentinians are about Aguero. Thats life. And in fairness, Carrick was the only other one with a massive price tag, and that was because he was Spurs star player, they didn't need the money, Manchester United are rich so spurs said "pay this or feck off". Lyon did exactly the same thing with Essien for Chelsea. They didn't need to lose him, didnt need the money, so just said, fine, 24million or on yer bikes. Neither should have cost that much, but its a sellers market where top players are concerned. Simple economics.

tdv

You rate him too much. Great players perform for the whole 90mins I cant remeber the last time I seen Rooney put in a good solid performance for 90 mins. He did it flashes last season & was very inconsistant.

~Rebel~

tdv wrote: »

You rate him too much.

In your opinion.

As i've said he had a poor season last year by his own standards, still got 23 goals and 14 assists in 51 games though. I've also pointed out he's obviously not finished developing yet, and will get even better. He's 21 years old. In the premierleague alone he's gotten 57 goals and another 33 assists, as a support striker.

I rate him highly, you don't, all there is to it im afraid!

christ, almost feel sick defending a ManU player so much! At least he's a scouser i suppose..

<edit> But anyway, Andy Reid. If he can keep injury free, he can hopefully pick up where he left off when he was voted onto the team of the season the year he left Forest. His vision and passing are already a big improvement on back then.

Pepe LeFrits

I thought this thread was about Andy Reid?

Xavi6

tdv wrote: »

You rate him too much. Great players perform for the whole 90mins I cant remeber the last time I seen Rooney put in a good solid performance for 90 mins. He did it flashes last season & was very inconsistant.

Well that's just bo*lox. Rooney is one of the hardest working players going. I've lost count of how many times I've seen him making a tackle at left back or running 30 yards to close down a defender. No play puts in a good solid performance for 90 minutes every week. Whatever you say about his talent it's ridiculous to criticise Rooney's work rate.

As for Reid, I think it's pretty obvious that the guy is extremely talented and has a lot to offer out national side. He is really our only creative outlet with Duff permanently crocked and McGeady just poor in my opinion. We all know our current predicament with players or the lack thereof so why slate one of the few quality ones we do have?