Golf GTi - DSG or manual?

PhoenixRising

I finally ordered the GTI I'd been promising myself yesterday. I couldn't hold off any longer.

Ordered the 3Dr DSG in Metallic Black (I know, a bitch to keep clean!)

Options:
Center arm rest
Alarm
Multi-function steering wheel
18" Detroit Alloys

Now the waiting game is killing me, and it's only been 24hrs.:D

Any DSG drivers out there who are still happy they went for the DSG over the manual?

VeVeX

E92 wrote: »

Well as it happens its true.

(Nerd cap on here:D)18" wheels have more grip(the tyres are wider), and have more resistance to motion(and weigh more), therefore meaning the engine needs to be worked harder to overcome the extra resistance to motion(and weight, though to be fair the weight penalty is very small as in so small you won't notice the difference 99% of the time), so yes they do slow the car down

It is inevitable that they will be worse over the bumps, and because of the whole physics of it as described by me earlier, they will use more fuel and they are noiser too.

The advantages of the bigger wheels are really only aesthetic plus the extra grip when you push on.

Now don't get thinking that what you should do is put on wheelbarrow sized wheels, there will be no grip, and because their resistance to motion will be so small, you will end up with the traction control light on all the time because the wheels can't deal with the power!

The 17in wheel on a GTi has a 225/45R17 and the 18in has 225/40R18 they have exactly the same footprint. Take your nerd cap off its broke.

Anan1 wrote:

I wouldn't disagree with this for a moment. Thing is, the car will be faster on 17"s. So which does the OP prefer - posing or driving?

As the footprint and rolling radius of both wheels is the near enough the same your argument holds not water either. Have a look at http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html .

MarkR

Wouldn't the 18's weight a little bit more then the 17's?

E92

VeVeX wrote: »

The 17in wheel on a GTi has a 225/45R17 and the 18in has 225/40R18 they have exactly the same footprint. Take your nerd cap off its broke.

Wrong:D!

Bigger wheels have more rolling resistance(what I wrongly called resistance to motion), irrespective of the fact that the tyres are the same width! I don't know why, they just do. And wider tyres increase rolling resistance anyway.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Wrong:D!

Bigger wheels have more rolling resistance(what I wrongly called resistance to motion), irrespective of the fact that the tyres are the same width! I don't know why, they just do. And wider tyres increase rolling resistance anyway.

sweet jesus, there is some lack of knowledge of basic physics on here! :rolleyes:

shayser

PhoenixRising wrote: »

Any DSG drivers out there who are still happy they went for the DSG over the manual?

I would be very reluctant to go back to manual after spending the past few months in the GTI DSG. We recently bought a second car, manual. Whenever I'm in it I think thank god for my DSG.

VeVeX

E92 wrote: »

Wrong:D!

Bigger wheels have more rolling resistance(what I wrongly called resistance to motion), irrespective of the fact that the tyres are the same width! I don't know why, they just do. And wider tyres increase rolling resistance anyway.

Your whole argument was based on the tyre size and that was wrong. There would be a negligible increase in the weight of the wheel. this would not have a noticeable effect on the acceleration of a 200bhp car. This whole idea of there being a huge difference in the performance of the Golf with 17s or 18s is absolute rubbish.

Theboinkmaster

Mark VI golf is out in Ireland Autumn 2008 - isn't like the jump from mark IV to V though as it's more of a revised model but they're still calling it the new model, ie mark VI. Think they're using most of the existing engines and making more aesthetic changes - loadsa info on the web along with pics.

Personally i wouldn't order a 2008 gti this late into the mark V's life cycle especially when within 12 months the next model will start showing up on the roads - I'd wait...

E92

VeVeX wrote: »

Your whole argument was based on the tyre size and that was wrong. There would be a negligible increase in the weight of the wheel. this would not have a noticeable effect on the acceleration of a 200bhp car. This whole idea of there being a huge difference in the performance of the Golf with 17s or 18s is absolute rubbish.

Where did I say that there 'would be a huge difference in performance'?

I simply said it would be slower. I never said by how much, because I don't have a crystal ball but you can't change the laws of physics just cause they don't suit what you're saying. I even told you that the difference in weight is so small that it won't make a difference 99% of the time.

I didn't realise that the GTI has the same width tyres whether itson 17's or 18's but it doesn't matter bigger whels will slow a car down(and wider tyres slow you down too in general, the exceptions being when there is so much power and the narrower tyres can't handle the power, or going around corners because of the extra grip).

VeVeX

E92 wrote: »

Where did I say that there 'would be a huge difference in performance'?

I simply said it would be slower. I never said by how much, because I don't have a crystal ball but you can't change the laws of physics just cause they don't suit what you're saying. I even told you that the difference in weight is so small that it won't make a difference 99% of the time.

I didn't realise that the GTI has the same width tyres whether itson 17's or 18's but it doesn't matter bigger whels will slow a car down(and wider tyres slow you down too in general, the exceptions being when there is so much power and the narrower tyres can't handle the power, or going around corners because of the extra grip).

You have no idea what your talking about my friend.

There is 2.5-3mm difference in the diameter of the 17in wheel and the 18in wheel fitted with the tyres I mentioned. Thats about the difference between the thread on a new tyre and a worn tyre. Are you trying to tell me that any car with worn tyres is faster then the same car with new tyres?? In real world terms there could be no noticeable difference between two.

MarkN

He wasn't exactly saying that.

I drive a car with 19s and I can assure you I have to brake approaching a bump/dip/ramp a lot harder/sooner than a car without wheels that size - that could in theory slow me down compared to someone with 16/17/18" wheels.

Phoenix - if I might suggest something to you it's to order the highline computer for the car - it's about 150 quid and will give you a full size screen in the dash display and will allow you to do stuff like control how long the 'coming home' lights stay on for and other stuff. Not many people know about it but you will find it on the options list and it's well worth it.

unkel

Anan1 and E92 are right, at least theoretically!

E92, you have the right gut feeling about it, but your terminology is all over the place. The word you are looking for is: inertia. As in it takes more energy to start moving an 18" wheel compared to a 17" wheel

whippet

MarkN wrote: »

Phoenix - if I might suggest something to you it's to order the highline computer for the car - it's about 150 quid and will give you a full size screen in the dash display and will allow you to do stuff like control how long the 'coming home' lights stay on for and other stuff. Not many people know about it but you will find it on the options list and it's well worth it.

If you go for the steering wheel controls the upgraded computer will be included and is well worth it as MarkN says.

I have the 17"s and personally I just didn't like the look of the 18"s !! that is just me ... but that car is all about the engine and the drive.

copacetic

unkel wrote: »

Anan1 and E92 are right, at least theoretically!

E92, you have the right gut feeling about it, but your terminology is all over the place. The word you are looking for is: inertia. As in it takes more energy to start moving an 18" wheel compared to a 17" wheel

They aren't you know. E92 said clearly that bigger wheels have more rolling resistance than smaller ones. When it is actually the opposite. Assuming the same width and tread on tires. The miniscule weight difference may cause a miniscule difference at starting but they were clearly talking about bigger wheels being slower when actually in motion which is against the laws of physics. In this forum we obey the laws of physics!

Now there is a case for road surface, suspension settings etc affecting the on the road speed on bigger wheels cars but there is absolutely no theory to argue against the simple fact the bigger wheels have less rolling resistance than smaller ones.

PhoenixRising

MarkN wrote: »

Phoenix - if I might suggest something to you it's to order the highline computer for the car - it's about 150 quid and will give you a full size screen in the dash display and will allow you to do stuff like control how long the 'coming home' lights stay on for and other stuff. Not many people know about it but you will find it on the options list and it's well worth it.

Thanks for that MarkN. I've ordered the multi-function steering wheel which, as whippet says, now comes with the highline computer AFAIK. It's definitely something I wanted to make sure I got. It's not on the options list anymore so I think VW decided to include it with the MFSW on 07/08 models. I think I read about it on a few other forums as well. The logic being, not much point in the MFSW without the highline computer..

JoeA3

Phoenix, it is available as a standalone option - its actually only about €85, so its insane not to get it. Most people don't cos the dealers are hopeless on the specs and wouldn't know anything about it! Confusingly its known as "Highline" computer in UK and "multi-function indicator" here.

I got it on my GTI earlier this year... but since your getting the MFSW, its bundled with that anyway as you know.

PhoenixRising

JoeA3 wrote: »

Phoenix, it is available as a standalone option - its actually only about €85, so its insane not to get it. Most people don't cos the dealers are hopeless on the specs and wouldn't know anything about it! Confusingly its known as "Highline" computer in UK and "multi-function indicator" here.

I got it on my GTI earlier this year... but since your getting the MFSW, its bundled with that anyway as you know.

Thanks JoeA3. Just checked again and it's definitely not on the options list my dealer printed out for me. It lists 'on board multi-function computer' as a standard specification on my list. I do remember seeing the multi-function indicator on the VW.ie website alright but I suspect that's well out of date. You had me worried there for a second, but like you say once I've ordered the MFSW I'll get it anyway.

I think some of the standard spec has been tweeked a bit this year. Now climate control is standard but you don't get the sunroof for instance. Did your model come in under this new spec with the CC or did you get the sunroof?

JoeA3

PhoenixRising wrote: »

Thanks JoeA3. Just checked again and it's definitely not on the options list my dealer printed out for me. It lists 'on board multi-function computer' as a standard specification on my list. I do remember seeing the multi-function indicator on the VW.ie website alright but I suspect that's well out of date. You had me worried there for a second, but like you say once I've ordered the MFSW I'll get it anyway.

I think some of the standard spec has been tweeked a bit this year. Now climate control is standard but you don't get the sunroof for instance. Did your model come in under this new spec with the CC or did you get the sunroof?

Believe me there isn't a VW salesman in the country who knows more about this car's specs than I do! Major anorak here. Its definitely an option, I'm 100% sure. It wasn't particularly clear on the spec sheet my dealers gave me either... in the end I got him to call the distributors in Dublin and even they weren't sure!!! The VW website is a joke, carzone.ie is a good guide, best I could find at the time.
The "on-board multi-function computer" in your spec sheet is just the standard one (i.e. the half-size, lower spec computer).


Its not climate control that's standard - only normal, manual aircon is standard. Climate is about €800 extra. Mine is the 07 spec model (i.e. no sunroof). They usually make the slight modifications to specs in mid-year, around June/July. This year (for '08) there was hardly any changes made - the only notable one being the stereo is now MP3 compatible AFAIK.

JHMEG

VeVeX wrote: »

The 17in wheel on a GTi has a 225/45R17 and the 18in has 225/40R18 they have exactly the same footprint. Take your nerd cap off its broke. :DAs the footprint and rolling radius of both wheels is the near enough the same your argument holds not water either. Have a look at http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html .

Vevex is spot on there.. the 18" alloys in this case have smaller tyres. Overall the 17s and 18s are:
a) the same width (225mm)
b) virtually the same diameter (about 2mm of a difference)

People don't take into account the tyre sizes when talking about alloys, and instead come with blanket statements like bigger alloys will slow a car down. They won't, bigger wheels will.

The 18s in this case come with lower profile tyres giving:
a) better handling as there is less lateral movement in the tyre
b) worse ride comfort as there's less air between the alloy and the road
c) more prone to punctures on our pot hole ridden roads for the same reason as b) above.
Neither are going to be hugely different from the 17s tho.

PhoenixRising

JoeA3, check your pm's.