Starting out recording.

Jeebus

Hi guys,

I've been playing guitar and singing now for a while, and I'd like to start recording my stuff so that I can put some of my stuff up on the net and get feedback and such.

Now, I've just built a new computer to a very high gaming spec, so I was planning on using this to record and produce my own stuff, but I'll be the first to admit I'm a complete noob at the whole music recording business, so I don't really know where to start.

What I would like to do is record myself singing, and playing guitar, at separate times, and put them over each other to make songs and have the option to add some bass then later on. And maybe have some computer generated drums in the background as well, if that is possible ?

I'd like to get good sound quality, but not for too much money ! My budget is probably about 300 euro, at most. I realise thats not much in this day and age, but at the moment its the best I can do.

What I was thinking is something like :

This - Lexicon Lambda USB Desktop Studio

and

MXL V63M Studio Condenser Microphone

The music I plan on playing will be rock (Foo fighters, Muse and such) and the guitars I use are an Ibanez GiO, Ibanez jazz, Epiphone SG, Washburn X series and a 1974 fender stratocaster.

Can anyone recommend me any products to get started on, and help me with what I'm looking for please ?:)

Thanks a lot and sorry if I dragged on a bit !

unclebill98

hi,

I've looked at the 2 products mentioned above and they seem good enough for what your looking to do. It comes with Cubase LE which would be a very good starting point for learning to get to grips with DAW's.
The unit has phantom power for the condenser a blend knob to help with the lantancy.

What programme you going to use to make up the drum tracks? I've really only used Reason for backing beats myself and I am sure someone else can give you other programmes that can help and that would not be to $$. But with Reason you can 'rewire' it into cubase and it will help you multitrack over it. I am sure this is a standard option on most of the other music programmes too.

you can find some other USB interfaces here.

http://www.musicstore.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/MusicStore-MusicStoreShop-Site/en_EN/-/EUR/ViewGuidedSearch-Browse;pgid=TOZgS8fSZObR00000000000000009vVRYYPU?CatalogCategoryID=pNTVqHzmeP4AAAERJp0vKPl9

If you PC has Firewire you might be better off getting a FireWire interface. If your going to be running upwards of 10 track of audio the effects of lantancy would be worse with USB than Firewire. I've been using an Digidesign Mbox(USB) and 002(Firewire), theres a world of differance between the two. Again someone might be able to comment on USB2, I've not used interfaces with this and they could well be fast enough.

I think a min of two inputs might be better for you. Atleast then you could still do a stereo recording and maybe save some money and get a better mic.

As for other mics, a good condenser will see you through most of your recording projects. They can be very sensitve. A pop shield would also be need to help reduce the pop's onto the mic if your getting close to it. If your not use to using a condenser it might be better to go with a standard dynamic mic. SM58 would be very standard.

Darn I've rambled on too.

Trev M

Check out a Line6 toneport ux 1 or ux 2 . Very very handy pieces of kit for what your doing.
Some people love em , some hate em ... I think they are great yokes , cheap as chips great value for money ..... Ive recorded most of this stuff with a UX2

http://www.imusicscene.com/trev_m/audio.php

Oh here's a link to tone ports

http://www.line6.com/toneport/

Trev M

forgot to mention the topneport comes bundled with some software too that includes ableton live lite which you can reocrd into it a pretty decent program.

steveland?

Trev M wrote: »

forgot to mention the topneport comes bundled with some software too that includes ableton live lite which you can reocrd into it a pretty decent program.

Don't forget Gearbox Trev!

Jeebus, the Toneport comes with great software called Gearbox which basically gives you a chain of effects (distortion, chorus, reverb etc...) and amp/preamp/cabinet modelling.

The UX2 also has two mic inputs, stereo in (at the back), a guitar/bass input and a pad input (for high/low gain instruments, never used this yoke so not sure which it's for)

Have a look at that Line6 website for the full lowdown on the UX2 (or the KB37 if you're looking to do some keys in yer songs)

mada999

I agree I purchased a toneport UX2 and it is a brilliant piece of kit....make a purchase...really easy to use and the effects are deadly!

Jeebus

Brilliant, thanks a lot guys !

I've put an order down for a UX2, and am still picking out my microphone.

Thanks a lot again, unclebill98, mada999,steveland? and Trev M !

Hopefully these gadgets will have a switch that makes me sound half-decent when I actually begin recording, eh ?

Paligulus

Jeebus wrote: »

Brilliant, thanks a lot guys !

I've put an order down for a UX2, and am still picking out my microphone.

Thanks a lot again, unclebill98, mada999,steveland? and Trev M !

Hopefully these gadgets will have a switch that makes me sound half-decent when I actually begin recording, eh ?

Good call on the UX2. Probably the best value I've ever got out of any piece of musical equipment. Enjoy!!!

Trev M

Agreed , UX2 is the best value for money Ive ever had on a piece of equipment, and Ive bought a lot of **** !:D

I think you'll be very impressed , just be aware a lot of the presets are pretty lame, once ya get set up Id search some of the user tones libraries and hit the line 6 forum to downlaod some super patches ...

Also - Id avoid buying add on packs until you are completely familiar with what the standard models can deliver, they are incredibly versatile with the stomp boxes. I find I tend to use three heads from the whole range , literally dozens of them

steveland?

Yeh, pre-programmed patches sound fairly crap.

Your best bet is to start off Gearbox without a head or cabinet, play around with different pre-amps, amps, cabinets until you get a sound you like. Then start adding in effects and so forth.

After a while you might consider buying a MIDI footswitch board to trigger the stomp boxes and wah pedal while you're playing. I still haven't bothered but I can see how it'd be super handy to trigger them while you're playing and not have to stop and switch them with the mouse or record each part seperately and put them together.

Check out some of the replica stomp boxes on it. The Big Muff one is great for Mudhoney type grungy distortion. Classic distortion is nice on a low setting if you just want some mellow overdrive going on.

Some of the amps have some good distortion aswell if you just crank up the gain and volume on them (you can turn down the monitors/headphones if you don't want them super loud). That's one thing I really like about computer based effects. You can crank up the amps volume while turning down the output volume on the device itself meaning you don't have to blow the head off yourself with mega-loud music.

Don't bother getting add-ons. At least not for the moment anyway. They're very expensive for what you get and, as I don't use most of the effects in Gearbox by default, don't think I'd get my moneys worth out of any of them.

Have you a good set of monitors?

TelePaul

I'm gonna play devils advocate and shoot down the toneport. As a fellow guitarist, I don't think it's necessary and I'm of the belief that it'll produce an inferior tone to a mic'd amp.

Before you guys release the hounds, let me say that I'm working off the assumption that if the OP ahs a '74 strat, he has a suitably tasty amp. Modellers have come a long way but they can't do a genuine valve amp sound; there's no air moving from a speaker acorss a diaphragm. I ahve modellers, I use modellers, I just don't think they sound as good as the real thing.

I have no arguments with the interface - generally all of USB interfaces and bundled sequencer perform to much the same standard. I've heard good things about the Presonus ranges in-built pres but for someone starting off, the one you've picked looks fine.

As for a mic, if you're not used to a condensor it may not be the way to go. They're highly sensitive when compared to dynamics, and I prefer to give 'rock' singers a dynamic and let them open up....getting this to work with a large diaphragm condensor is tough. I do like the trusty SM57/SM58, either of which can be used for vocals or guitar and both of wich are cheap as.

For drums I like .wav loops but MIDI is popular too...MIDI is basically an elctronic signal which triggers a pre-recorded sound. You can trigger all sorts of sounds via MIDI and all sorts of drum sounds, but the argument against it is that some peformances don't 'flow'; you're not playing the drums, you're pressing buttons, and while in theory there should be no difference, drums can lose thier organic feel. Addictive Drums is a pretty good program for MIDI drums.

Your gonna need monitors, you can save yourself two hundred lids and hook up your sound-cards outputs to an old stereo hi-fi (ort almost any ampifier and speakers) if you have them knocking around your house

Trev M

Mic'd amp is always the preferred option , the benefit of the toneport is having a huge tone pallette to choose from for miniscule amount of cash.

In its own right toneport can produce some great tones, how close they are to original for me is a stupid arguement. They have great tones, they are a tool to be used , like any tool in the right hands they can fashion some great stuff. Similarly Ive heard a lot of amps mic'd by clowns that have sounded awful... Yeah its would be great to have an expensive amp , with decent mics into a top notch avalon or something but I think the OP is a bit off this.

Be well , rock my brothers.

T

Trev M

Couldnt agree more with this by the way, cheap and GOOD.... regardkless of what one Albini has to say

TelePaul wrote: »

As for a mic, if you're not used to a condensor it may not be the way to go. They're highly sensitive when compared to dynamics, and I prefer to give 'rock' singers a dynamic and let them open up....getting this to work with a large diaphragm condensor is tough. I do like the trusty SM57/SM58, either of which can be used for vocals or guitar and both of wich are cheap as.

TelePaul

Trev M wrote: »

Couldnt agree more with this by the way, cheap and GOOD.... regardkless of what one Albini has to say

Albini???????

steveland?

While I agree with you in theory TelePaul, gotta say I don't think comparing a properly mic'd valve amp to a modelled valve amp is really applicable.

You're not going to be producing top-class tunes with a Toneport and Gearbox, but it's a very good, cheap and simple way of messing about laying down a couple of ideas and maybe coming up with something that sounds fairly good for a demo or for a couple of tracks for the internet.

Obviously I'd prefer to have a fat-ass valve amp and a good cab mic'd up but for 189 euros you're getting what you pay for.

May not sound as good as the real thing but you're saving yourself thousands by getting modellers instead of an amp and cab (also a lot easier to transport if ya have a laptop )

Trev M

TelePaul wrote: »

Albini???????

Yeah he did some stuff once, but doesnt like 57's


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Steve_Albini%27s_recording_projects

TelePaul

Trev M wrote: »

Mic'd amp is always the preferred option , the benefit of the toneport is having a huge tone pallette to choose from for miniscule amount of cash.

In its own right toneport can produce some great tones, how close they are to original for me is a stupid arguement. They have great tones, they are a tool to be used , like any tool in the right hands they can fashion some great stuff. Similarly Ive heard a lot of amps mic'd by clowns that have sounded awful... Yeah its would be great to have an expensive amp , with decent mics into a top notch avalon or something but I think the OP is a bit off this.
T

I suppose this aspect of discussion is a bit redundant - the OP has ordered the Toneport - but I'm gonna offer my two cents on modellers versus the real deal, because I think it can have a big impact on the character of a recording.

Some people like a heavily processed sound...which is fine. And for convenience and tracking in the middle of the night, I love Guitar Rig. I love MIDI, midi drums and drumagog; I've spent hours arguing the merits of one over the other to many a disgruntled drummer

Interestingly enough, a mix I did last week with drums from the guys at drums-on-demand earned some criticism, with the accusation that the drums sounded fake. The loops were acidized .wav loops, a nice kit, nice mics, nice pres and nicely mixed. They were probably considered 'fake' because comparatively, they were too real - the cymbals didn't have enough of those torublesome highs, the snare didn't sound like it was covered in a tea towel and the kick didn't sound like the kick from anything on Neil Youngs 'Harvest'.

I'm not digressing, I swear!!! The same argument applies to modellers...I suppose they lack the 'intimacy' of the genuine article; an example off the top of my head is Pearl Jams 'Yellow Ledbetter'. Listen to that outro, you hear the Strat, the room, the amp. I don't normally row in with buzz words like 'character' or 'feeling' or 'emotive death'. But I think with modellers, what you gain in convenience you lose in credibility.

Steveland wrote:

While I agree with you in theory TelePaul, gotta say I don't think comparing a properly mic'd valve amp to a modelled valve amp is really applicable.

I'd agree with you if the likes of Line6, Native, Vox et all didn't base most of their marketing plan on the fact that thier products do sound as good.

Steveland wrote:

You're not going to be producing top-class tunes with a Toneport and Gearbox, but it's a very good, cheap and simple way of messing about laying down a couple of ideas and maybe coming up with something that sounds fairly good for a demo or for a couple of tracks for the internet.

Obviously I'd prefer to have a fat-ass valve amp and a good cab mic'd up but for 189 euros you're getting what you pay for.

May not sound as good as the real thing but you're saving yourself thousands by getting modellers instead of an amp and cab (also a lot easier to transport if ya have a laptop)

Yeah I agree, you definetely get what you pay for when it comes to instruments and equipment. But what is the OP paying for? A sequencer and souncard to make demos or a similar means to record tonally varied guitar parts? I am, as I said, presuming he's ALREADY spent a considerable amount onan amp.

As for top-class....Springsteen recorded nebraska with a Zoom 4 track casette deck and two SM57s. The OP may surprise us all!

steveland?

TelePaul wrote:

As for top-class....Springsteen recorded nebraska with a Zoom 4 track casette deck and two SM57s. The OP may surprise us all!

As Lance Armstrong once said "It's not the bike"

TelePaul

steveland? wrote: »

As Lance Armstrong once said "It's not the bike"

Some would argue that in his case it was the drugs! :eek:

DublinWriter

Jeebus wrote: »

Now, I've just built a new computer to a very high gaming spec...

Beware of fan-noise if you are going to put down vocal tracks.