Rep of Ireland -v- Cyprus

Mr Alan

DesF wrote: »

National teams are supposed to represent the pinnacle of the country's footballing talent.

Ireland's national team represesents the dregs of the Premierleague, and the lower tiers of English football.

tad harsh Des, Given-Finnan-Dunne-McShane-Keane-Doyle-Hunt hardly represent the dregs of the PL...the team is there, i am firmly of the belief that if we had a decent manager we would have been close to topping that group

Pal

Delaney said fans have no vote.
This was in reference to the reaction he would likely get when selling out TV rights to Sky.
This attitude is worrying. He treats us with contempt.

Vote with your feet. Its the only message that will get heard.

These people are oblivious to their paying customers.

The nonsense has to stop.

Mr Alan

I honestly cant ever see Irish fans voting with their feet.

MooseJam

DesF wrote: »

Ha!

Ireland's national team represesents the dregs of the Premierleague, and the lower tiers of English football.

are you saying there is better out there that we are not utilising

redspider

The result last night is dissapointing, but people really need to think more about the culpability. It is not all Delaney's fault. It is not all Staunton's fault.

First, lets put the opposition into some context. Cyprus are not that bad of a team, they are not an Aruba, eg:
Cyprus 1-1 Germany
Czech Republic 1-0 Cyprus

So, they do have their moments, although they are no great shakes and can blow hot and cold, losing 6-1 to the Slovaks for example.

I put a lot of the blame on last night's performance down to the players. Ireland did have better players than them, plain and simple, IF we performed. But we didnt. Our defence wasnt at the races and here I would blame several players.

O'Shea, McShane, but also the central midfielders as in Andy Reid, Joey O'Brien and Miller. Ireland had no heart both in terms of effort and in terms of the playing centre.

I find it ironic that Staunton gets lambasted from pillar to post for not playing Andy Reid in previous games, and then when Andy Reid is in the team tonight and puts in a woeful performance, misplacing passes like confetti, etc, its Staunton that gets lambasted again. Surely Reid is culpable! You cant blame Staunton for the players not doing it out on the pitch.

Football is played with 11 players on the pitch. I am not defending Staunton, but when we look at this game, there were enough players on the pitch out there with sufficient quality to do the job, IF they would play as best they could - but they didnt. That has nothing to do with managerial motivation. If a player cant self-motivate himself when he pulls on an Irish shirt in front of nearly 60,000 people, it is the players fault.

Given - couldnt have been blamed for anything

Finnan - did well again, got in a cross for Keane, and showed some how to shoot

McShane - did okay at times but several misunderstandings with O'Shea led to many chances for them, as well as their goal of course

O'Shea - well, we all know he is not going to be the most reliable of players as a CB, and so it proved. I would blame Staunton for putting him there but then O'Shea more so for being a cause of chaos at times. He was coasting mentally too, which he always does. But do we have anyone better?

Kilbane - he is not a left back. The cross for their goal came from his side, his attempt at a block was pathetic. His best-before-date in the Irish team is long gone if you ask me. Let's call for his head, rather than Delaney's. Kelly should have been playing instead.

Keogh - as in the Germany game, although he tried, he couldnt get past his marker, and he didnt produce anything. I dont think he is good enough at the moment for international level.

Joey O'Brien - Was the opposite of what he played like on Saturday. His passes went astray, it wasnt clear who was holding midfield, and Cyprus won the middle of the park.

Andy Reid - not a good game for him, his passes were way off, some staight to blue shirts, lack of focus. He missed Carsley big time, and Cyprus were better in the cente of midfield than Germany were.

Miller - didnt make any improvements and carried on where O'Brien had left off. Between himself and Reid they gave zero protection to the backs, and they couldnt create anything for the forwards.

Hunt - harried and looked busy at times but no end product. Again, Staunton was lambasted for leaving him out but now when he's in did Reid make that much of a difference? Not on this performance anyway.

Doyle - like the German game, he was unable tolink up, make runs into the correct spaces etc. It has to be said he had no decent supply as well. He played his best football when moved to wide right towards the end.

Keane - as usual, Robbie failed to deliver for Ireland. He should have put that header away. He didnt link up with Doyle at all well, and the question begs whether Doyle and Keane should be played at the same time. Are they too similar? Its a difficult choice to leave either of them out.

McGeady - actually he was very impressive when he came on and was beating players and putting in good crosses. He however was afraid to shoot when he made space for himself and he really needs to get that aspect into his game. He made a few mistakes, but a big improvement from some of his previous performances.

Murphy - he looked like he could be a big aerial threat and take defenders with him but at times went way out of position and found himself on the flanks rather than in the centre.


So overall, I can understand people's feelings and the rantings, but lets look at the real blame of this 1-1 scoreline. It was the Irish Players on the pitch, plain and simple - they cant hide from that. I think the players know that themselves too. Finnan's almost embarassment at scoring that goal showed that. The look on his face was as if he was saying that we didnt deserve the draw.

There aren't many positives that can be taken from this game. I have no idea how or when the pots are drawn for the WC qualification and whether we will eventually end up in the 3rd pot or the 4th one, but a 4th seeding would make any task of qualification that much harder.

Not a good night for Irish football ....

Redspider

Mr Alan

dont get him started!

Xavi6

MooseJam wrote: »

are you saying there is better out there that we are not utilising

Wes Houlihan

MooseJam

Xavi6 wrote: »

Wes Houlihan

are you being serious ? I don't think they'd ever play loi

patmac

Pigman II wrote: »

You'd wonder why any of them would want to stay on after the reception they got last night. Wouldn't blame them if they all packed it in after this campaign.

I think the booing was aimed at Stan and the FAI not the players.

Two questions:
Does anyone out there (apart from Delaney) still think Stan can do the job?
Will the FAI sack him?

No to both answers?

Pal

Mr Alan wrote: »

I honestly cant ever see Irish fans voting with their feet.

probably not. Ireland fans put up with whatever shyte they give us.

pathetic what's going on at the moment.
I'm not paying in again until it stops.
That is simply Delaney and Staunton out. And take Booby Robson too.

Doesn't make me any less of a supporter. Just a self respecting one.

Xavi6

redspider wrote: »

Kilbane - he is not a left back. The cross for their goal came from his side, his attempt at a block was pathetic. His best-before-date in the Irish team is long gone if you ask me. Let's call for his head, rather than Delaney's. Kelly should have been playing instead.

Redspider

Hold on there a second. Why shouldn't we call for Delaney's head? He was in charge of hiring Staunton who is in turn the man who picks the team. To say players should be motivated purely on their own is boll*x. That's the whole point of man management, something Stan clearly doesn't have. Did Kilbane choose to be played at left back even though he isn't one? No. Stan did. And who hired Stan?

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

tad harsh Des, Given-Finnan-Dunne-McShane-Keane-Doyle-Hunt hardly represent the dregs of the PL...the team is there, i am firmly of the belief that if we had a decent manager we would have been close to topping that group

Given - Probably one of the best goalkeepers in the PL, granted, but I can see him doing a runner after this campaign. Then what?

Finnan - Another player in his 30s. Wouldn't be surprised if he legged it too. I've never seen a player less pleased to score a goal than him last night.

McShane - Plays for a team 16th in the Premierleague, who have conceded 16 goals so far. Yes, the dregs of the Premiership. He wasn't good enough for ManYoo, so Ferguson let him go.

Keane - Spurs are not going to be a top six team this season. Dregs again.

Doyle - Reading aren't setting the world on fire, he has one goal this season. Dregs

Hunt - Ditto.

Kilbane - Journeyman, plays for Wigan now, relegation certainties. Premiership dregs/lower tiers of english football.

McGeady - Confidence player, if his forst touch in a game isn't amazing, he doesn't play well in that game. Ireland can't afford players like that.

A. Reid - Lower tiers of English football.

Keogh - Lower tiers of English football.

Dunne - ManCity having an ok-ish start, but have been the dregs of the Premierleague for the last number of years.

O'Shea - can't hold a place in any position for his club, is used as a play anywhere like Phil Neville before him, DOES NOT CUT IT at international level

Need I go on.

Ireland don't have the players.

The reason?

Well, the drain of talent, and the FAI expecting a foreign system to develop our young players.

Every single one of them Scottish players' forst club was a Scottish club.

That says it all.

Xavi6

MooseJam wrote: »

are you being serious ? I don't think they'd ever play loi

No but they'd play Championship players i.e. Wes Houlihan of Blackpool

_blank_

MooseJam wrote: »

are you saying there is better out there that we are not utilising

Nope, I'm not.

That's the thing

MooseJam wrote: »

are you being serious ? I don't think they'd ever play loi

Weso plays for Blackpool in the Championship actually.

Mr Alan wrote: »

dont get him started!

Too late

Pigman II

DesF wrote: »

What?
Players who don't perform have to expect stick.

Why? It might make the boo-er feel a bit better for a few minutes What does it achieve other than to make people who know more about football than you do and earn a living from the sport think you are a collective shower of idiots.

Mr Alan

Mc Shane left Utd so he could play ball as far as i know, Ferguson was not too happy to let him go, and says its the only time a player has ever asked to leave.....pretty sure i heard that somewhere? maybe one of the Utd fans can clear that up? Plus despite playing for a very poor side, he has impressed on numerous occassions this year, and if Sunderland were to go down (please god) i have no doubt he will be snapped up.

Doyle is one of the top strikers in the PL, its not really that relevant who he plays for...If reading were relegated tomorrow, there would be no shortage of esxtablished PL clubs wanting to take him on.....same goes for Hunt.

Keane is, and has been one of the top strikers in the PL for quite a number of years with a team that consistantly does well....they will be top six this year by the way.

O'Shea has played regularly for the mancs for years now, he must have something. (although, truth be known,i'm not a fan)

Ireland are never gonna have a team full of world class players, but wat we do have is a team thats foundation is world class (or at least bordering on it) ----Given---Dunne---Finnan---Duff---Keane.

_blank_

Pigman II wrote: »

Why? It might make the boo-er feel a bit better for a few minutes What does it achieve other than to make people who know more about football than you do and earn a living from the sport think you are a collective shower of idiots.

Erm.

Because they are out there representating the nation.

They could look like they actually give a crap from time to time.

Anyway, the boos were for Stan, and probably De****y

If there was a banner confiscated like eirebhoy said, then that is an absolute disgrace on the part of the FAI.

They are like a communist party.

Everyone afraid to say anything bad about the leader, in case they don't get a powerful position next time there is shift.

"If I say anything bad, everyone will think I'm a troublemaker, and won't want to deal with me in the future, so I won't rock the boat".

I'm sure there are people in the FAI who have the opinions expressed on this message board, there simply HAS to be. Why are they not speaking out? Because it's easier for them to stfu and take a handy wage, that's why.

_blank_

Also, the FAI police the message boards of eircom league clubs.

I'm an admin of the Shels board and regularly have to remove posts, just in case the FAI don't like them and issue a fine to the club.

It's like a mix between Soviet Russia and Nineteen-Eighty-Four.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENS

Xavi6

Mr Alan wrote: »

Mc Shane left Utd so he could play ball as far as i know, Ferguson was not too happy to let him go, and says its the only time a player has ever asked to leave.....pretty sure i heard that somewhere? maybe one of the Utd fans can clear that up? Plus despite playing for a very poor side, he has impressed on numerous occassions this year, and if Sunderland were to go down (please god) i have no doubt he will be snapped up.

Doyle is one of the top strikers in the PL, its not really that relevant who he plays for...If reading were relegated tomorrow, there would be no shortage of esxtablished PL clubs wanting to take him on.....same goes for Hunt.

Keane is, and has been one of the top strikers in the PL for quite a number of years with a team that consistantly does well....they will be top six this year by the way.

O'Shea has played regularly for the mancs for years now, he must have something. (although, truth be known,i'm not a fan)

Ireland are never gonna have a team full of world class players, but wat we do have is a team thats foundation is world class (or at least bordering on it) ----Given---Dunne---Finnan---Duff---Keane.

To be honest I nearly forgot he played for Ireland. Personally I think he's finished with all the injuries. He won't do a job for us again.

Personally I hate Robbie Keane. Never liked him due to his inability to do the simple thing. Flicks, step overs etc never come off. He has talent alright but doesn't use it wisely.

And there's no way Doyle is one of the best strikers in the Premiership. He has 'John O'Shea Syndrome' - great first year then sh1te after that.

BaZmO*

Savman wrote: »

If only that guy that approached Stan in Portmartnock with the gun got a few shots off.

Savman wrote: »

Yes actually, what have I missed? Things seem to be going well.
This is progress, people, last time they bet us 5-2

Although when you think of it, at the beginning of the campaign we had 3 main competitors to battle against for qualification. Germany, Czechs and Slovakia. We didn't even think that we'd need to bother with the the Cypriots.
Look at the results that we've gotten from all those games.
Germany – A loss and a Draw
Czechs – A Loss and a Draw
Slovakia – A Win and a Draw
Cyprus – A Loss and a Draw

That’s 7 points from a possible 24. For that alone Stan should be sacked never mind the shocking performance against San Marino.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Didn't think I'd ever see the day I was depressed at a last-minute Ireland equaliser or winner, but now I've seen them both.

There's only one thing Ireland fans can do if Staunton stays in charge, and 16,000 people apparently did it tonight by not even showing up despite having tickets.

Vote with your feet

That’s easier said than done. If you don’t take your allocation of tickets you get thrown of the list for future tickets.

smemon wrote: »

All we want, as fans, is bite, hunger and passion

And more importantly…. A Plan

eirebhoy wrote: »

I wasn't bothered when Cyprus scored, wasn't bothered when Ireland scored. I'm going to Wales and I think it'll just be a match for protest.

It's incredible the lengths Delaney goes to so the media don't get proof of how much the fans want him gone. He has people reading internet forums. He has people at matches on the lookout for banners. He lies to the press saying the Ireland fans were chanting Stans name. The man is deranged. Giving away free tickets on away trips won't change that.

This lasted a couple of minutes apparantly before stewards confiscated it on instructions from the FAI head of security:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1761/delaneyout2sz1.jpg

I've been watching Prison Break the last few weeks, he just really reminds me of the American President in that show.

There seemed to be trouble in the Lower Cusack beside the Canal End although couldn’t make out what it was. I wonder if they were taking banners off the people there?

Xavi6 wrote: »

Robbie Keane has to go, or be stripped of the captaincy at the very least. So what if he's our record goalscorer? His general play is sh1te. Admittedly he's not the only crap player we have but he's meant to be our talisman and he's a joke.

I think Robbie’s biggest problem when playing for Ireland is that he doesn’t have any competition. When he plays for Spurs he’s always fighting for his game which gives him an edge. Giving him the captaincy has made him lose his edge imo.

Pigman II wrote: »

You'd wonder why any of them would want to stay on after the reception they got last night. Wouldn't blame them if they all packed it in after this campaign.

Boo Fcking Hoo!! I’ve spent an awful lot of money for this campaign. I’ve been to every home game and travelled to Germany. The very least I expect is a bit of passion and bite from the players and a Manager that knows what he’s doing.

PHB

Mc Shane left Utd so he could play ball as far as i know, Ferguson was not too happy to let him go, and says its the only time a player has ever asked to leave.....pretty sure i heard that somewhere?

Fergie wanted to keep him, but he wanted to move on. He got a taste of first team football and hasn't looked back since. In retrospect, it was an excellent move for him (and worrying, one which is becoming more common, good players getting trained by United, United wanting them to stay on, but them wanting to leave, McShane, Jones and Rossi all have done this)

Look, ultimately, this whole don't play in the Irish leagues is a load of bollix. They are from the dregs of the PL, so what, the Irish league is the dregs of Europe. Doyle was born and bred in the Irish leagues, now he plays in the PL, and he was still **** last night.
The players are playing bad, but there's a reason for this. The system and the motivation aren't there.

Keane is a top class striker, but he's not a magician, he can only do so much. The midfield that feeds him is shockingly bad. Reid, Miller and O'Brien is not good enough. McGeady can sometimes beat people, but doesn't exactly give telling crosses. There's nothing going to Keane or Doyle, that's why they can't do ****. I won't blame them.
The midfield is shocking, not one of those players are good enough imo. Maybe maybe McGeady will be, but I'd be surprised.
At the back, we're solid enough. O'Shea isn't a CB, he rarely if ever plays there for United. He is a full back or a make-shift DMC. Why the **** Stan didn't play O'Shea in midfield and O'Brien in defense is utterly beyond me.

THe problem is at the start. Ultimately, ask yourself this, if Fergie/Rafa/Mourinho were managing this team, do you think we'd qualify. I think we would have.

DerekD Goldfish

DesF wrote: »

Also, the FAI police the message boards of eircom league clubs.

I'm an admin of the Shels board and regularly have to remove posts, just in case the FAI don't like them and issue a fine to the club.

It's like a mix between Soviet Russia and Nineteen-Eighty-Four.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENS

In Soviet Russia fans are embarrassment to national team

_blank_

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

In Soviet Russia fans are embarrassment to national team

Thanks, I didn't quite know how to word it.:)

Mr Alan

whereas in Celtic Ireland the team is an embarrassment to the fans.

funny old world we live in

marco_polo

redspider wrote: »

The result last night is dissapointing, but people really need to think more about the culpability. It is not all Delaney's fault. It is not all Staunton's fault.

First, lets put the opposition into some context. Cyprus are not that bad of a team, they are not an Aruba, eg:
Cyprus 1-1 Germany
Czech Republic 1-0 Cyprus

So, they do have their moments, although they are no great shakes and can blow hot and cold, losing 6-1 to the Slovaks for example.

I put a lot of the blame on last night's performance down to the players. Ireland did have better players than them, plain and simple, IF we performed. But we didnt. Our defence wasnt at the races and here I would blame several players.

O'Shea, McShane, but also the central midfielders as in Andy Reid, Joey O'Brien and Miller. Ireland had no heart both in terms of effort and in terms of the playing centre.

I find it ironic that Staunton gets lambasted from pillar to post for not playing Andy Reid in previous games, and then when Andy Reid is in the team tonight and puts in a woeful performance, misplacing passes like confetti, etc, its Staunton that gets lambasted again. Surely Reid is culpable! You cant blame Staunton for the players not doing it out on the pitch.

Football is played with 11 players on the pitch. I am not defending Staunton, but when we look at this game, there were enough players on the pitch out there with sufficient quality to do the job, IF they would play as best they could - but they didnt. That has nothing to do with managerial motivation. If a player cant self-motivate himself when he pulls on an Irish shirt in front of nearly 60,000 people, it is the players fault.

Given - couldnt have been blamed for anything

Finnan - did well again, got in a cross for Keane, and showed some how to shoot

McShane - did okay at times but several misunderstandings with O'Shea led to many chances for them, as well as their goal of course

O'Shea - well, we all know he is not going to be the most reliable of players as a CB, and so it proved. I would blame Staunton for putting him there but then O'Shea more so for being a cause of chaos at times. He was coasting mentally too, which he always does. But do we have anyone better?

Kilbane - he is not a left back. The cross for their goal came from his side, his attempt at a block was pathetic. His best-before-date in the Irish team is long gone if you ask me. Let's call for his head, rather than Delaney's. Kelly should have been playing instead.

Keogh - as in the Germany game, although he tried, he couldnt get past his marker, and he didnt produce anything. I dont think he is good enough at the moment for international level.

Joey O'Brien - Was the opposite of what he played like on Saturday. His passes went astray, it wasnt clear who was holding midfield, and Cyprus won the middle of the park.

Andy Reid - not a good game for him, his passes were way off, some staight to blue shirts, lack of focus. He missed Carsley big time, and Cyprus were better in the cente of midfield than Germany were.

Miller - didnt make any improvements and carried on where O'Brien had left off. Between himself and Reid they gave zero protection to the backs, and they couldnt create anything for the forwards.

Hunt - harried and looked busy at times but no end product. Again, Staunton was lambasted for leaving him out but now when he's in did Reid make that much of a difference? Not on this performance anyway.

Doyle - like the German game, he was unable tolink up, make runs into the correct spaces etc. It has to be said he had no decent supply as well. He played his best football when moved to wide right towards the end.

Keane - as usual, Robbie failed to deliver for Ireland. He should have put that header away. He didnt link up with Doyle at all well, and the question begs whether Doyle and Keane should be played at the same time. Are they too similar? Its a difficult choice to leave either of them out.

McGeady - actually he was very impressive when he came on and was beating players and putting in good crosses. He however was afraid to shoot when he made space for himself and he really needs to get that aspect into his game. He made a few mistakes, but a big improvement from some of his previous performances.

Murphy - he looked like he could be a big aerial threat and take defenders with him but at times went way out of position and found himself on the flanks rather than in the centre.


So overall, I can understand people's feelings and the rantings, but lets look at the real blame of this 1-1 scoreline. It was the Irish Players on the pitch, plain and simple - they cant hide from that. I think the players know that themselves too. Finnan's almost embarassment at scoring that goal showed that. The look on his face was as if he was saying that we didnt deserve the draw.

There aren't many positives that can be taken from this game. I have no idea how or when the pots are drawn for the WC qualification and whether we will eventually end up in the 3rd pot or the 4th one, but a 4th seeding would make any task of qualification that much harder.

Not a good night for Irish football ....

Redspider

TBH I cannot blame the players, I have no doubt that they take great pride in wearing the green jersey however the fact of the matter is that most of them have gone 4-5 years without a decent manager at international level.

I would not blame players if the majority of them wonder why they even bother showing up any more, seeing as how the FAI seem hell bent in denying them even a chance of qualifying for a major tournament at what should be the prime stages of there careers. It looks to me like everyone is completely disillusioned with the whole Irish setup, hence players who are playing excellently for their clubs looks completely amateur for Ireland, and have done for a long time now..

Passion and pride will take you so far, and on it own it might get you the odd good performance in spite of the management. However it is all in vain without organisation, tactics and a plan.

Pigman II

DesF wrote: »

Erm.

Because they are out there representating the nation.

They could look like they actually give a crap from time to time.

Anyway, the boos were for Stan, and probably De****y

If there was a banner confiscated like eirebhoy said, then that is an absolute disgrace on the part of the FAI.

They are like a communist party.

Everyone afraid to say anything bad about the leader, in case they don't get a powerful position next time there is shift.

"If I say anything bad, everyone will think I'm a troublemaker, and won't want to deal with me in the future, so I won't rock the boat".

I'm sure there are people in the FAI who have the opinions expressed on this message board, there simply HAS to be. Why are they not speaking out? Because it's easier for them to stfu and take a handy wage, that's why.

Yes that's all well and good. But what does it achieve? The boo boys have been out regularily ever since World Cup 2002 and all to my mind their efforts have produced has been the sacking of two managers who were then subsequently replaced by even lesser managers.

Fair enough we're having a **** campaign and we all go blame Staunton/Delaney but if you check it result for result Euro2008 is pretty close to what MickMcCarthy delivered in the WC98 qualifiers. WC98 had 3 home draws that on paper we should have won and a handful of shambolic away performances. It took time but no one can say Mick didn't eventually knock us together into a force to be reckoned with

BaZmO*

Pighead wrote: »

Slightly off topic but was anybody reading that piece in the Racing Post saying it would actually be beneficial for the Germans to lose tonight against the Czechs?

Basically the thinking behind it goes that the top 4 seeds for the European Championships are going to be Austria Switzerland Greece (assuming they qualify, which looks likely) and the team with the best performance in qualifying which is currently Germany*

So it looks like it would be an advantage to be unseeded and thus end up in the same group as Austria/Switzerland/Greece. Surely the Germans aren't gonna throw this match?

* Can't remember the exact criteria for the 4th seeds which Germany currently top.

Last night's result was quite interesting.

yom 1

BaZmO* wrote: »

Although when you think of it, at the beginning of the campaign we had 3 main competitors to battle against for qualification. Germany, Czechs and Slovakia. We didn't even think that we'd need to bother with the the Cypriots.
Look at the results that we've gotten from all those games.
Germany – A loss and a Draw
Czechs – A Loss and a Draw
Slovakia – A Win and a Draw
Cyprus – A Loss and a Draw

That’s 7 points from a possible 24. For that alone Stan should be sacked never mind the shocking performance against San Marino.

That really makes for piss poor reading.

and whats worse is that we could finish second last in the group if we dont beat Wales

So according to redspider we should call for Kilbanes head and not the management team who decided that they knew better than Rafa benitez and SAF and that, in fact, Steve Finnan is a left back and JOS is in fact a right back? Shameful that the managers of 2 of Englands top teams are missing such insightful tactical awareness. We should be calling for Kilbanes head because its Kilbanes fault that Joey O'Brien was picked at CM? Is it Kilbanes fault that Keane and Doyle always make the sam runs? Is it Kilbanes fault that nobody on the team closed down their man? im sorry redspider, you're normally a good poster here but this suggestion is one of the most ludicrous posts Ive ever seen.


I was at the Germany game on Sat and Ill say this about Kilbane, he may not be anywhere near the level we want form our players but he gives 110% every game and u cant ask for any more than that. What more d u want him to do? He wasnt born with the ability of Zidane so why suddenly expect him to be?? Plus he doesnt ever play left back so why would he suddenly be good at it? I dont expect miracles from players, the onle thing that I, as a fan, want to see from them is commitment.And Kilbane gives that so I for one couldnt say a negative word about him other than the pundits favourite "he lacks a bit of qulaity".


John Delaney should man up and admit that this was one big balls up. Get in somebody with a proven track record, not necessarily a guy who would fit the Cv to manage a major club, but certainly a guy who will bring discipline, tactical awareness and organisation to the team. In this case a guy who isnt Irish (especially NOT O'Leary). Look at Rehagel (sp?) and what he did with Greece, he wasnt renowned as a world beating manager before that, just a solid guy who was able to organise a team, and as Scotland have mostly shown in this campaign, that goes a lot further sometimes than having world class players.

To be honest, personally I think Delaney has to take the rap for this. Its not Stans fault he's not upto the job, he just wasnt born with it. He hasnt even got the charisma to boost morale which could possibly make up for his shortcomings in other areas. Its delaneys fault cos he used the FAI resources to appoint a guy who he decided was up to the job and hindsight has shown that he isnt upto the job (most of us thought that at the time) so therefore Delaney has failed in his task to find a suitable candidate.

Mr Alan

said it before and i'll say it again.....

KKKKEEEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGGAAAAANNNNN!

please

redspider

Xavi6 wrote: »

Hold on there a second. Why shouldn't we call for Delaney's head? He was in charge of hiring Staunton who is in turn the man who picks the team. To say players should be motivated purely on their own is boll*x. That's the whole point of man management, something Stan clearly doesn't have. Did Kilbane choose to be played at left back even though he isn't one? No. Stan did. And who hired Stan?

Well, with that logic we may as well blame Delaney's parents for having him, what were they thinking of?

The point is that all the blame cant be heaped on Delaney, or on Staunton. The players must take some blame too. If anything for last night (and the 5-2 debacle in Cyprus itself) I would blame the players more than Staunton and Delaney.

I fully agree with you that Kilbane should not be played at left back, but his Wigan manager is playing him there. I wouldnt have him in the team at all if it was up to me and I've been on record with that stance fo ages now, but the fans dont get on the players backs enough, such as Kilbane, when it is the players faults.

I think we need to tread carefully as well, and all players needa chance, but we need to call a spade a spade when it happens, especially when mistakes are made on a regular basis.

Players blow hot and cold and their performances vary. Reid was good on Sat, but one factor in that which many may have missed was that the German formation suited him and gave him time and space in the middle of the park. He didnt get that last night and he was swamped and had a disaster.

O'Brien has played a lot of central midfield football in his career before, but he had a mare last night as well. With the flank play breaking down, Kilbane and Hunt, Finnan and Keogh, Doyle and Keane running but not getting anyweher, and a few 'misunderstandings' from mr unreliable O'Shea and McShane, there were disasters happening all over the pitch. But these were our best players, we do not have another 11 who could replace all that was there.

And players should be able to motivate themselves at this level. They are professionals, some with 10 year careers at the top level.

People blaming everything on Delaney and Staunton is naivety, as we just dont have the players. And last night, the players that were on didnt do a good enough job. They know it as well. The question is, how many of them really care.

Redspider

Mr Alan

The players should shoulder some blame.

BUT you cant sack the players.

marco_polo

redspider wrote: »

Well, with that logic we may as well blame Delaney's parents for having him, what were they thinking of?

The point is that all the blame cant be heaped on Delaney, or on Staunton. The players must take some blame too. If anything for last night (and the 5-2 debacle in Cyprus itself) I would blame the players more than Staunton and Delaney.

I fully agree with you that Kilbane should not be played at left back, but his Wigan manager is playing him there. I wouldnt have him in the team at all if it was up to me and I've been on record with that stance fo ages now, but the fans dont get on the players backs enough, such as Kilbane, when it is the players faults.

I think we need to tread carefully as well, and all players needa chance, but we need to call a spade a spade when it happens, especially when mistakes are made on a regular basis.

Players blow hot and cold and their performances vary. Reid was good on Sat, but one factor in that which many may have missed was that the German formation suited him and gave him time and space in the middle of the park. He didnt get that last night and he was swamped and had a disaster.

O'Brien has played a lot of central midfield football in his career before, but he had a mare last night as well. With the flank play breaking down, Kilbane and Hunt, Finnan and Keogh, Doyle and Keane running but not getting anyweher, and a few 'misunderstandings' from mr unreliable O'Shea and McShane, there were disasters happening all over the pitch. But these were our best players, we do not have another 11 who could replace all that was there.

And players should be able to motivate themselves at this level. They are professionals, some with 10 year careers at the top level.

People blaming everything on Delaney and Staunton is naivety, as we just dont have the players. And last night, the players that were on didnt do a good enough job. They know it as well. The question is, how many of them really care.

Redspider

So since we don't have any better players hence we cannot replace them en mass, and we shouldn't blame the manager. May I then take it you are advocating carry on Stan, for another two years?

redspider

redspider wrote: »

People blaming everything on Delaney and Staunton is naivety, as we just dont have the players. And last night, the players that were on didnt do a good enough job. They know it as well. The question is, how many of them really care.

This completely ignores the fact that there is no organisation to the team. Its not the players fault if theyre not good enough, theyre being put out by the manager who is thus saying theyre good enough. Look again at Greece and what they did because the coach instilled discipline and organisation to a buch of mediocre players. We have have established PL players who, if they were in an organised team could produce a hell of a lot better than they have in this campaign.


What do u want Kilbane to do? Do u want him to turn around to Stan and say "Well actually Stan, Kelly is better than me, why dont u pick him?"

_blank_

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not the players fault if theyre not good enough,

Nope, the blame for this lies squarely with the FAI for expecting a foreign system to develop our players.

Deleted User wrote: »

theyre being put out by the manager who is thus saying theyre good enough.

Going on previous performances, Kelly isn't a better LB than Kilbane.

Deleted User wrote: »

We have have established PL players who, if they were in an organised team could produce a hell of a lot better than they have in this campaign.

England have even more established PL players and aren't going to a championship either.

OMG, could the Premierleague actually NOT be the best league in the world ever!!!11one111!!!eleven!!!111, or do I get a slap for even suggesting it.

Deleted User wrote: »

What do u want Kilbane to do? Do u want him to turn around to Stan and say "Well actually Stan, Kelly is better than me, why dont u pick him?"

Yes, it's called retiring.

BaZmO*

redspider wrote: »

The players must take some blame too. If anything for last night (and the 5-2 debacle in Cyprus itself) I would blame the players more than Staunton and Delaney.

So it's the players fault that Lee Carsley was at home watching us getting destroyed in the midfield only to be called up for the next match?

Loomis

Oh my good God. Feel sorry for my dad who block books six tickets. Used three (or wasted whichever way you wanna look at it) and 3 went spare...150 euro down the drain. Ouch
See my rant here Comments welcome

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Mr. Anderson wrote: »

See my rant here Comments welcome

SPAM!!!!

The FAI are putting on sale the €10k ten year tickets in January.

Who the fúck is going to buy them?

Mr Alan

des correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't a lot of French, Brazilian, Argentinian young players being developed in a country that is not their own?

I would have thought that was par for the course when your national league is of fairly poor standard?

I'm all for a bit of PL bashing now and again, BUT it is without doubt ONE of the top 3 leagues in the world. Correct?

nacho libre

redspider wrote: »

Well, with that logic we may as well blame Delaney's parents for having him, what were they thinking of?

The point is that all the blame cant be heaped on Delaney, or on Staunton. The players must take some blame too. If anything for last night (and the 5-2 debacle in Cyprus itself) I would blame the players more than Staunton and Delaney.

I fully agree with you that Kilbane should not be played at left back, but his Wigan manager is playing him there. I wouldnt have him in the team at all if it was up to me and I've been on record with that stance fo ages now, but the fans dont get on the players backs enough, such as Kilbane, when it is the players faults.

I think we need to tread carefully as well, and all players needa chance, but we need to call a spade a spade when it happens, especially when mistakes are made on a regular basis.

Players blow hot and cold and their performances vary. Reid was good on Sat, but one factor in that which many may have missed was that the German formation suited him and gave him time and space in the middle of the park. He didnt get that last night and he was swamped and had a disaster.

O'Brien has played a lot of central midfield football in his career before, but he had a mare last night as well. With the flank play breaking down, Kilbane and Hunt, Finnan and Keogh, Doyle and Keane running but not getting anyweher, and a few 'misunderstandings' from mr unreliable O'Shea and McShane, there were disasters happening all over the pitch. But these were our best players, we do not have another 11 who could replace all that was there.

And players should be able to motivate themselves at this level. They are professionals, some with 10 year careers at the top level.

People blaming everything on Delaney and Staunton is naivety, as we just dont have the players. And last night, the players that were on didnt do a good enough job. They know it as well. The question is, how many of them really care.

Redspider

Kilbane does and yet you would have him dropped over others. He is not the greatest player but his commitment can't be questioned. I'd have him in the team over some of the better players who seem half-hearted about playing for Ireland. I think the problem with some players is they are assured of their position on the Irish team. Keane in particular doesn't have that luxury at Spurs. He knows he can't afford to have a series of bad games with woeful misses for Spurs or he'll be on the bench.
Since Delaney is a passionate fan maybe he'll take a pay cut to ensure a world class manager can be appointed. I blame him for all this. Appointing a friend over hiring a manager with credentials is wrong.

Agent Smith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Staunton


i think its fitting

redspider

Mr Alan wrote: »

The players should shoulder some blame.
BUT you cant sack the players.

No, but you can drop them. And at a much more regular rate than trying to change a manager, or a chief executive.

And fans can and should make their opinions known as to who should be dropped and the reasons why they should be dropped. Players shouldnt be given an easy ride always , and blaming Delaney for a result which was caused in the main by the players not performing is in fact farcicial.

We need to get pride back into the shirt, that players should be fighting for their places and only get picked when they perform in an Ireland shirt, not in a Reading one, Man Utd one, Spurs one, Celtic one, etc, and that no player should feel that they are a shoe-in. It wont rid us of bad results completely as these things will happen such is the nature of the game, but to coin a phrase from rugby's Ciaran Fitzgerald, where's the pride? Where's the fu.cking pride? We need that back and demonstrated.

Did we see any tears shed? enough tears? Are these players really playing for their country, or do they in reality feel that they are on an 'international break', a bit of malareky which they can banter about when they get back to their day-jobs and slag each other off - "you drew with Cyprus, well you lost to Russia", etc .....

Dont get me wrong, I am not blaming the players solely (nor am I blaming Kilbane solely!), but last night there was a cohort of players who just didnt perform to the level that was needed, a large cohort (indeed Kilbane was not the worst of them). Andy Reid was much worse than Kilbane, for example. So Irish fans need to think about that rather than join in on the bandwagon of 'Delaney Out'.

If we look at rugby for an example, I don't even know who the chief executive of the IRFU is and there wasnt a whimper from rugby fans calling for his/her(?) head after the WC knock-out and under-par performances! Granted there was some success under the rugby manager previously but surely the results v Namibia and Georgia should have resulted in equal ferocity of an attack towards their CEO.

Redspider

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

des correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't a lot of French, Brazilian, Argentinian young players being developed in a country that is not their own?

Well, the majority of Brazilians, Argentines and French players play at least some time in their home leagues before moving on to bigger leagues.

Mr Alan wrote: »

I would have thought that was par for the course when your national league is of fairly poor standard?

Scotland for example.

Every single one of them Scottish players who are doing so well lately started in the SPL. And the SPL, apart from the old firm and the odd random team once in a while, is of a relatively poor standard. Correct?

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm all for a bit of PL bashing now and again,

Unless it's Liverpool getting bashed eh

Mr Alan wrote: »

BUT it is without doubt ONE of the top 3 leagues in the world. Correct?

Meh, top five maybe.

But I don't know much about the SAmerican leagues, I doubt you do either.

And still, you haven't answered why the FAI expect a foreign system to develop it's players? Why we, as a nation, seem to accept it as "just the way it is" and no-one asks the question.

Look, hundreds of young talented players head off to England every year. The majority of them come back a few years later with their dreams in tatters, and no interest in playing football. All because the pressures of the Premiership demand instant success, and the big clubs, instead of nurturing young talent, as they did a decade or more ago, are now just buying in the already developed talent.

Would the standard of the national league not improve if we were able to keep the talent here? Instead of players going over to England and ending up broken shells, why not spread them around the eL for a few years, give them a taste of playing in a proper meaningful league, instead of some reserve division, then if they are good enough at 18/19/20/21 I'd have no problem with them moving on, in fact I'd encourage.

Sure, players like Kevin Doyle, Shane Long and Stephen Hunt ARE too good for the eL, I know that. I also accept that the eL will never be as good as the PL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga etc etc because we simply don't have the population to have it like that, but if the FAI got the finger out as regards developing young talent, it WOULD be better, and therefore the national team would benefit.

You know it makes sense.

Pal

Has he been sacked yet ?

what's keeping them !

DesF

DesF wrote: »

Nope, the blame for this lies squarely with the FAI for expecting a foreign system to develop our players.

No, the blame lies with the FAI for appointing a manager with little or no experience and expecting him to organise a team into cohesive unit when he has never shown before that he could do so.

DesF wrote:

Going on previous performances, Kelly isn't a better LB than Kilbane.

U obviously jumped into this conversation late. I was replying to redspider who said we shouls solely blame Kilbane for this entire campaign and that Kelly should be in ahead of him. I simply pointed out that what he was expecting Kilbane to do was to overrule the manager and drop himself, I dont know too many pros who will do that.

DesF wrote:

England have even more established PL players and aren't going to a championship either.

OMG, could the Premierleague actually NOT be the best league in the world ever!!!11one111!!!eleven!!!111, or do I get a slap for even suggesting it.

We're not talking about England, they have their own problems and lets call a spade a spade here, they should have gotten out of that group easily. This isnt the time of the place for the PL vs La Liga vs Serie A edebate (and for the record I think La Liga is the best and most competitive league so there goes your point about my bias). Evan at that, other teams who have most of their players playing in lesser leagues than the PL have done better than us, Cyprus for example if they win their game in hand. Russia, Scotland are close to the same as us and look at them.......

DesF wrote:

Yes, it's called retiring.

Oh thats a grea idea, why dont we get all of the players to admit theyre not up to the job and retire. then we'll have to being in even worse players to replace them........:rolleyes: he obviosuly wanst to play, its upto management to not pick him. Hell id play for Ireland everytime if I was picked.

Chardee MacDennis

right so went to the game last night and to be honest it was a dire performance, but i think the criticism of keane is uncalled for, while i realise he doesnt put in the performances in the ireland shirt as he does with spurs but that can be difficult when you have 4/5 absolute rubbish players around you.

people here have been going on about how great andy reid is and how he can control the pace of the game and read the game - absolute bollox. he is in the championship for a reason he is not a very good player. last night he kept passing out to hunt, who just lost the ball again and again, he hardly ever put the ball out to Keogh who was doing much better than hunt when he got the ball. what kinda of a player doesnt realise this.

hunt was crap and couln't make the simplest passes, keane blasted him on at least 3 occassions for this. also Keane was one of the only players to hassle the defence when they were on the ball. i do agree that Keane and Doyle can't seem to play together but Stan doesnt have the balls to drop either of them.

kilbane. how is he still playing - rubbish at every position.

as for Stan it's all been said, he just doesnt have a clue how to mange a team, and lets not let Bobby off the hook - he was a world class manager and i thought a good appointment but he has done nothing - i'm looking forward to when he leaves and does a tell-all of what went wrong.

i would take Mick back and I hate him!

edit: also if i was playing at the moment i would refuse any call ups until the situation was changed, i cant understand how anyone would want to play for that team...

dubmick

an online petition for Delaney to go would be a good idea. Some media exposure would help too.

www.delaneyout.com ??

xx eddie

Blame the players if they have a bad performance, thats fair enough.........but if the whole campaign is a disaster then you have to blame the manager. Then blame the process that led us to put a manager with no management experience, international or otherwise, into the position of International Football Manager. Then blame the guy who owns the process.

Do we have the players? Give this same set of players to a top class manager and see the difference in the results. Did Greece have a squad of top class players when they won the last Europeans or did they have an average squad with a manager who knew how to use them effectiviely.

PHB

And still, you haven't answered why the FAI expect a foreign system to develop it's players? Why we, as a nation, seem to accept it as "just the way it is" and no-one asks the question.

But that's bs. Doyle was developed in the Irish league and he was jsut as crap as anyone last night. The fact that they were developed in the English system isn't why they were crap. The players we had in the previous golden years were nearly all developed in the English system.

Agent Smith

dubmick wrote: »

an online petition for Delaney to go would be a good idea. Some media exposure would help too.

www.delaneyout.com ??

anything but that address

i hve the misfortune of sharing a surname with that muppet