206th Merseyside Derby

Mr Alan

Lads yous are talking ****e, when Gerrard goes over to Clattenberg, Mark tells him to piss off.....he was always going to send Hibbert off, he had to, and ye all know that

Fwaggle

Just saw MOTD and Jesus Christ did Clattenburg screw Everton :eek:

Nunu

Mr Alan wrote: »

Lads yous are talking ****e, when Gerrard goes over to Clattenberg, Mark tells him to piss off.....he was always going to send Hibbert off, he had to, and ye all know that

He had his yellow card out...Gerrard told him it was a red...put his yellow away...duly obliged with the red card.

Once he deemed it was a foul a sending off was the right outcome but Gerrard dived.

~Rebel~

Nunu wrote: »

He had his yellow card out...Gerrard told him it was a red...put his yellow away...duly obliged with the red card.

Once he deemed it was a foul a sending off was the right outcome but Gerrard dived.

I thought after the Saha thread we had moved onto "Going over easy to ensure justice prevails". He can be a big girl alright can our Stevie. Having said that, at this point I think most players would have done the same in that situation. Ban them all I say. Make everyone taking the field get a smack of a hurl to ensure we have 22 manly men out there!

shiibata

working earlier so only seen MOTD tonight and will admit we were fortunate to get the 3 points but not complaining..Thought Kuyt was very lucky to stay on the field after that waist high tackle, christ, it looked bad..

An Citeog

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I thought after the Saha thread we had moved onto "Going over easy to ensure justice prevails". He can be a big girl alright can our Stevie. Having said that, at this point I think most players would have done the same in that situation. Ban them all I say. Make everyone taking the field get a smack of a hurl to ensure we have 22 manly men out there!

Not really. Heres the thread in question: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055154998&page=4

Plenty of Liverpool fans and others were quick to vilify Saha but turn it into a, "ah sure everyone's doing it" type argument.

I seem to remember an article about Torres saying that he'd never dive for fear of what Liverpool teammates like Gerrard would say. It's not just Johnny Foreigner, even your very own captain fantastic does it. As for Carragher, every time he's forced towards his own end line with the ball he'll cut across the run of the attacker and fall down like a heap of bricks.

~Rebel~

An Citeog wrote:

Not really. Heres the thread in question: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=&page=4

Plenty of Liverpool fans and others were quick to vilify Saha but turn it into a, "ah sure everyone's doing it" type argument.

I thought thats what i said...some said any form of going down easy is bad, others said its bad, but if its actually a foul its a means to an end, eg PHB with "Here's the real question, would the peno have been given if Saha didn't dive? IMO it was a Peno, it was a foul. However, would it have been given if Saha didn't dive? I don't think so. Therefore, the players kinda need to dive to get the peno, which is the real problem." Id pretty much agree with that, and would really like making a meal out of it thing to stop.

I seem to remember an article about Torres saying that he'd never dive for fear of what Liverpool teammates like Gerrard would say. It's not just Johnny Foreigner, even your very own captain fantastic does it. As for Carragher, every time he's forced towards his own end line with the ball he'll cut across the run of the attacker and fall down like a heap of bricks.

Im not sure what this bit is about or replying to really..who mentioned johnny foreigner? I never said Gerrard was right, i said the pen was the right decision, but gerrards a girl, so im not sure what the "even your very own captain fantastic does it" was for..id just said that.

All in all im a bit confused..

Mr Alan

He did not dive, hibbert was reefing the shirt off him, and one of his legs caught Gerrards.

I'd love to see any of us running at full pelt for 70 yards, having our shirt pulled and one of our legs caught. We'd definately stay up on our feet, cause we're "real" men...wat a load of ****e

He has dived in the past, but that was a definate penalty and red card.

Nunu, thats wat you speculate happened, but at the same time, do you honestly believe that? Hibbert always was going to get sent off, it just looked like that on replays which was unfortunate.

KdjaCL

Mr Alan wrote: »

He did not dive, hibbert was reefing the shirt off him, and one of him legs caught Gerrards.

He has dived in the past, but that was a definate penalty and red card.

Nunu, thats wat you speculate happened, but at the same time, do you honestly believe that? Hibbert always was going to get sent off, it just looked like that on replays which was unfortunate.

:shudder: i agree with millersangel straight red no question.



kdjac

Dont be at yourself

At the end of the day, Liverpool deserved to win. Sure, we had to rely on a bit of luck, but all champions need a rub of the green at some stage!

KdjaCL

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

At the end of the day, Liverpool deserved to win. Sure, we had to rely on a bit of luck, but all champions need a rub of the green at some stage!

A touch of hope in your post.

The belief in your team if only for a moment = class


kdjac

cson

Hibbert warranted the red if the ref deemed it a foul and he was the last man, which he was, even if Gerrard did go down easily. The fact that he influenced the ref in this regard is a bit worrying imo. Fair enough justice was served, but its a warped kind of justice.

I remember Arsenal doing something similar with a penalty claim against Fulham, ref waved play on, got surrounded by players, gave the peno.

I'm just totally against players influencing the referee, imo it'd be no harm adopting the rugby union stance on this; that only the captain can talk to the referee. Adopting the time keeping methodwouldn't be a bad thing either.

A Dub in Glasgo

Just watched the highlights on MotD

What a disgrace that referee was

1. Both Gerrard & Hibbert were pulling each others jerseys. The offence that led Gerrard to go down was on the line or outside the box. The ref then allows himself to be influenced by Gerrard in the most obvious way

2. Kuyt should have been sent off with the most obvious kung fu two footed flying tackle imaginable, yet the ref saw yellow

3. How the ref managed to miss the foul in the box at the end is beyind me.

A disgraceful performance from the ref

Guy:Incognito

shiibata wrote: »

working earlier so only seen MOTD tonight and will admit we were fortunate to get the 3 points but not complaining..Thought Kuyt was very lucky to stay on the field after that waist high tackle, christ, it looked bad..

I think he got away with it because of the way he went in. He wasnt trying to do damage and by the time he got anywhere near Neville he had his legs curled up. If he was doing a Stevie G with studs up he'd have walked.

cson wrote: »

I'm just totally against players influencing the referee, imo it'd be no harm adopting the rugby union stance on this; that only the captain can talk to the referee..

But Gerrard is captain, so all is well.:)

Guy:Incognito

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

1. Both Gerrard & Hibbert were pulling each others jerseys. The offence that led Gerrard to go down was on the line or outside the box. The ref then allows himself to be influenced by Gerrard in the most obvious way

2. Kuyt should have been sent off with the most obvious kung fu two footed flying tackle imaginable, yet the ref saw yellow

1. Gerrard was in front and being pulled from behind. He was making sure Hibbert didnt slow him and get around him to tackle.Case of 2 wrongs making a right imo.

2. As above studs were not showing, his legs curled. If studs were showing he'd have made contact and most probably has seen Neville stretchered off.As it was it ended up being a jump in the direction of Neville with no intent to injure him.

PHB

cson wrote: »

I'm just totally against players influencing the referee, imo it'd be no harm adopting the rugby union stance on this; that only the captain can talk to the referee. Adopting the time keeping methodwouldn't be a bad thing either.

If I'm not mistaken, this has or is about to be adopted.

purple'n'gold

The referee was an incompetent disgrace and should be struck off.

purple'n'gold

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

At the end of the day, Liverpool deserved to win. Sure, we had to rely on a bit of luck, but all champions need a rub of the green at some stage!

Champions? You were obviously looking at the wrong match; the Champions were in Birmingham later in the evening demolishing Aston Villa.

Tusky

Theres no doubt that Liverpool were lucky but I still feel we deserved the win.

1) Everton were very lucky to go 1-0 with an unfortunate og.

2) Both Liverpool penalties were penalties, the red card was the correct decision.

3) Liverpool created better chances over the 90 minutes.

4) The reason Kuyt wasnt sent off was because it was obvious he was trying to block the ball and had no intention of connecting witht he player, he would have done more damage to himself if he had. He is not a nasty player.

5) At least one of the Everton penalty shouts should been given, they were unlucky not to get a penno.

6) Liverpool ended with about 60-65% possession. I think they had about 8 or 9 shots on target compared to Evertons 1...

Necronomicon

cson wrote: »

I'm just totally against players influencing the referee, imo it'd be no harm adopting the rugby union stance on this; that only the captain can talk to the referee.

This is the rule already isn't it? It's scarcely followed though.

Benitez might be in a bit of hot water for saying Lescott dived.

Mr Alan

Dont know, if anyone saw it, but i heard Carragher was asked about the last minute penalty/non penalty.

Interviewer; Jamie was it penalty?
Carra; No way
Interviewer; it appears your hands were on him jamie?
Carra; well its a mans game isnt it?

legend

RE*AC*TOR

Make no mistake Goodision away is one of the toughest matches of the year for Liverpool. Also by the standards of the last ten years or so, this is a much better equipped Everton side. We went out, with several key players injured - Torres, Alonso, Agger, and deservedly won.
If we follow suit in our next two games things will be looking very rosy.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

Dont know, if anyone saw it, but i heard Carragher was asked about the last minute penalty/non penalty.

Interviewer; Jamie was it penalty?
Carra; No way
Interviewer; it appears your hands were on him jamie?
Carra; well its a mans game isnt it?

legend

yep, he's a good lier.

Mr Alan

good defender is wat ya mean i think?!

Me and you dont agree?! shocking!

x in the city

luckiest win they will get all year, gerrard and carracher practically reffed the game. hands waving to the heavens whenever a decision was to be made. Evertons players keps their cool but maybe should have adopted the LFC way and harrassed the ref a bit more.

Was quite an exciting game with alot of incident, but to say Evertonians are astonished to lose the game is an understatement.

Mr Alan

Yea because with all those chances/shots on goal/blocked shots/peach of a goal they scored/great chances they carved out etc etc .... they really deserved it.....bollox

county

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yea because with all those chances/shots on goal/blocked shots/peach of a goal they scored/great chances they carved out etc etc .... they really deserved it.....bollox

liverpool were lucky to get a win plain and simple

Mr Alan

lucky enough . . . . but sure Utd fans have been saying for years that thats wat "title winning" teams do have they not?

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

good defender is wat ya mean i think?!

Me and you dont agree?! shocking!

you actually think it was a fair 'tackle'? I actually am a little surprised.

Mr Alan

carra had his hands on him, i think it probably was a penalty.
i dont think the first one was.

el rabitos

united fans ragin as usual

no matter how lucky liverpool were, united have been luckier
no matter what rafa said about lescott diving, fergie has said alot worse
no matter how late liverpool scored, united have scored later

pissing an moaning like a bunch of oul wans...

i dont care if we have to scratch and claw and talk smack about every team and their players along the way as long as in may someone in a red liverpool shirt is lifting the premiership.

i wont lose any sleep about man utd and everton fans calling liverpool cheaters

Fwaggle

el rabitos wrote: »

united fans ragin as usual

i wont lose any sleep about man utd and everton fans calling liverpool cheaters

And what about the non United and Everton fans who said the same - what's their agenda? Or, shock horror, could Liverpool actually have cheated :eek:

:rolleyes:

el rabitos

Fwaggle wrote: »

And what about the non United and Everton fans who said the same - what's their agenda? Or, shock horror, could Liverpool actually have cheated :eek:

:rolleyes:

oh no, we cheated. here, take those 3 points back.

AdrianII

Look at the of the day, Liverpool won 2-1 and picked up 3 points. Why all the bullshi* of luck, bha bha bha.

Every team has a bit of luck, liverpool no more so than utd and chelsea

and who cares if, it should have been a penalty (which i believe lescott backed into carra looking for the peno), riise and sisoko should have put us 3-1 up any how.

Everton contributed nothing to that game absolutly nothing, sami even scored for ye and they still couldnt win.

Fwaggle

el rabitos wrote: »

oh no, we cheated. here, take those 3 points back.

What an intelligent well thought out response. Well done.

But...how about answering the question? What agenda do the people who are not Everton/United fans have in saying that Liverpool are cheats?

AdrianII

Fwaggle wrote: »

What an intelligent well thought out response. Well done.

But...how about answering the question? What agenda do the people who are not Everton/United fans have in saying that Liverpool are cheats?

Explain to me how liverpool cheated!!!!

~Rebel~

Fwaggle wrote: »

What an intelligent well thought out response. Well done.

But...how about answering the question? What agenda do the people who are not Everton/United fans have in saying that Liverpool are cheats?

I dont really get your point. you want us to explain why other people would call liverpool cheats? Surely thats for the people calling the pool cheats to answer...

In my own humble opinion, the only thing close to cheating yesterday was Gerrard going over easy when he was running into the box with his jersey being pulled. It sucks balls but i think at this point, most players would do the same under the cicumstances.

Nothing else imo qualified as cheating. If its Gerrard saying "here, he was last man back, i was through on goal, thats obviously a Red ref", then we've got a lot of cheaters in our midst. Every single person who protests a decision, even if their right. Lets not forget that. Gerrard Was right.

Is are you calling Carra pulling Lescott in the box cheating? Again if you are, theres probably 22 cheaters on the pitch each week, every single person who commits a foul by this definition would be a cheater.

el rabitos

Fwaggle wrote: »

What an intelligent well thought out response. Well done.

But...how about answering the question? What agenda do the people who are not Everton/United fans have in saying that Liverpool are cheats?

maybe their jelouse? liverpool are the most succesful team in town. if they start winning leagues again the rest of the pack wont exactly be cheering them on.

people dont like united because they've been successful, same reason they dont like liverpool.

well thought out enough?

Fwaggle

AdrianII wrote: »

Explain to me how liverpool cheated!!!!

Well for a start I didn't say they did. El Rabitos went on a rant about how it was just sore Everton and United fans complaining so I asked what explanation was there for non Utd/Ev fans saying the same things. Ok?

Personally I think it was the ref who was a disgrace and I've said that already in this thread!!!!

Exclamation marks added for extra effect :rolleyes:

Fwaggle

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I dont really get your point. you want us to explain why other people would call liverpool cheats? Surely thats for the people calling the pool cheats to answer...

My point is, rather than debating what people are saying regarding Liverpool yesterday, there are certain people whose contribution is basically to tell us that Man U and Everton fans are whingers and should shut up.

Also, I didn't ask you or anyone else to explain - I asked El Rabitos a question regarding his post. That was allowed the last time I checked.

AdrianII

ref had a bad game, so what i happens

i presume ur a utd fan, remember when mendes scored for spurs at OT and carroll scooped the ball back into play even though he knew it was a clear goal, thats cheating on carrolls behalf, but these things happen

~Rebel~

Fwaggle wrote:

Well for a start I didn't say they did. El Rabitos went on a rant about how it was just sore Everton and United fans complaining so I asked what explanation was there for non Utd/Ev fans saying the same things. Ok?

In that case what Non Utd/Ev fans were saying liverpool were cheaters? i didnt think there were any..which means the question was pointless.

Fwaggle

AdrianII wrote: »

ref had a bad game, so what i happens

i presume ur a utd fan, remember when mendes scored for spurs at OT and carroll scooped the ball back into play even though he knew it was a clear goal, thats cheating on carrolls behalf, but these things happen

No I'm not actually but if that presumption helps your argument, work away.

Fwaggle

~Rebel~ wrote: »

In that case what Non Utd/Ev fans were saying liverpool were cheaters? i didnt think there were any..which means the question was pointless.

Well without wanting to drag other people into it, Dub in Glasgo is a Celtic fan and his post was about Gerrard influencing the referee and Carragers wrestling Lescott to the ground at the end.

People are allowed to say something negative about Liverpool if it's warranted you know

BTW, I don't support any premiership team. Just wanted to clear that up before anyone accused me of being a bitter Utd/Ev/anyone else fan.

~Rebel~

Fwaggle wrote:

No I'm not actually but if that presumption helps your argument, work away.

Fwaggle, you're coming across kind of trolly..whats your point like? You personally dont think Liverpool cheated, but you want to know what agenda is there for those who do? Id imagine their "agenda" would simply be their opinion, could be right, could be wrong..i dont see what it has to do with anything though..Gerrards going down easy could be viewed as cheating but theres much worse out there, and sadly this has become part and parcel of the game now. And im sure nearly everyone would agree he did go down easy, but it was a foul.

Fwaggle

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Fwaggle, you're coming across kind of trolly..whats your point like? You personally dont think Liverpool cheated, but you want to know what agenda is there for those who do? Id imagine their "agenda" would simply be their opinion, could be right, could be wrong..i dont see what it has to do with anything though..Gerrards going down easy could be viewed as cheating but theres much worse out there, and sadly this has become part and parcel of the game now. And im sure nearly everyone would agree he did go down easy, but it was a foul.

Sigh - look I'm not trying to argue with you or anybody else, and I'm certainly not a troll.

I was asking El Rabitos a question regarding his post. I don't see what the problem is. The jist of his post was that the people complaining were bitter Man U or Everton fans and I was asking what he thought about the people who didn't fall into this bracket. Maybe I didn't phrase it properly or something but I thought it was clear enough?

What's trolly about that?

An Citeog

AdrianII wrote: »

ref had a bad game, so what i happens

i presume ur a utd fan, remember when mendes scored for spurs at OT and carroll scooped the ball back into play even though he knew it was a clear goal, thats cheating on carrolls behalf, but these things happen

Roy Carroll, that was 2 seasons ago! What about the time when Stephane Henchoz saved the ball twice on the line with his hand against Arsenal in the FA Cup final?

The issue here isn't with the Liverpool players, it's with the referee and seemingly being influenced in his decisions. Games over now and no amount of moaning is going to change the result.

~Rebel~

I already answered most of this above;

Fwaggle wrote:

Well without wanting to drag other people into it, Dub in Glasgo is a Celtic fan and his post was about Gerrard influencing the referee

~Rebel~ wrote:

If its Gerrard saying "here, he was last man back, i was through on goal, thats obviously a Red ref", then we've got a lot of cheaters in our midst. Every single person who protests a decision, even if their right. Lets not forget that. Gerrard Was right.

I think the fact the ref actually listened is a major plus. Put it this way, the ref already deemed it a pen. Hibbert was last man back by a long way. Once this is pointed out to the ref, the only reason not give a red is out of spite, which would mean he's simply not doing his job.

Fwaggle wrote:

and Carragers wrestling Lescott to the ground at the end.

~Rebel~ wrote:

Is are you calling Carra pulling Lescott in the box cheating? Again if you are, theres probably 22 cheaters on the pitch each week, every single person who commits a foul by this definition would be a cheater.

Fwaggle wrote:

People are allowed to say something negative about Liverpool if it's warranted you know

Of course people can say negative things, but IMO they should back them up too. Challenging the ref (especially in the way it was done in this case, not intimidating or crowding, merely protesting, on his own, as happens 50times a game) and committing fouls are things i have never seen referenced as cheating before.

Fwaggle

An Citeog wrote: »

The issue here isn't with the Liverpool players, it's with the referee and seemingly being influenced in his decisions. Games over now and no amount of moaning is going to change the result.

That's true - let's all be friends

Mr Alan

People, honestly...wats more likely here-

1)Clattenburg automatically reached into his pocket as a reaction before (rightly) coming to the decision that wat Hibbert did was a definate red card?

2)He was going to book Hibbert and then gerrard decided that it was to be a red?