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Irish Language in Stormount and SF

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    #62
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Are you honestly trying to tell me that the people of Ireland need the permission of the DUP before they can learn Irish? That is utter nonsense.
    As has been stated numerous times, no one is denying anyone their rights.
    I very much doubt Unionists are afraid of Irish.
    By your logic, all services in Ireland should also be available in Polish and Chinese, seeing as they are more widely spoken in Ireland than Irish.
    It is a problem because it is a waste of time and money.
    Again, no one has said anything of the sort.
    Irish is only spoken on a daily basis by about 2% of the population in the Republic - hardly worth the vast amounts of time and money that have been spent on it.
    Again, that is a ridiculous statement. Pure anti-British sentiment and devoid of reason.
    Yes, that's right. The British are out to get us. That's what this is all about. Nothing to do with the ridiculous inefficiency of having two different languages spoken in a government assembly.
    Northern Ireland is a different country (note international border). So is Burma - are we allowed to have an opinion on the happenings there?
    Irrelevant. Windows has Irish language support. Wikipedia is available in Irish. That doesn't give people the liberty to use Irish when and where they see fit.
    So if you went for a job interview, it would be perfectly ok for the interviewer to conduct the interview in Polish? It would be bad manners to object, right?

    How would people feel if the Dáil began to conduct its business 'as Gaeilge'?


    Could not be arsed answering all this nonsense so I will boil it down for you

    Whether you think it is a waste of money or not the people of Ireland overwhelmingly voted for the GFA
    This is part of the GFA


    And lastly if i was in Poland I would be surprised if it was conducted in any other language or if the job required fluency in Polish it would not be unreasonable to conduct the interview in Polish.

    What I would love to know is why do people feel so threatened by the use of the Irish language that they get there knickers in a twist if someone starts speaking it.


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    #63
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    You anti-Irish language lot should be ashamed of yourselves. Siding with the 'against anything Irish' Unionist bigots ahead of your own abandoned countrymen. The shame of it all! SF, SDLP, Alliance, Greens are all in favour of the language, just the Unionists trying to assert superiority over the Taigs are against it. Don't see why you guys have a problem with it :confused:


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    #64
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Could not be arsed answering all this nonsense so I will boil it down for you
    I see. You don't have the answers so you conveniently dodge the questions.
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    And lastly if i was in Poland I would be surprised if it was conducted in any other language or if the job required fluency in Polish it would not be unreasonable to conduct the interview in Polish.
    But that was not the question. Polish is more widely spoken in the Republic than Irish is in the North. Neither are official languages in the respective countries. So, I will ask again, if you attended a job interview in Ireland, would you object to the interview being conducted through Polish? Of course you would. Even if a translator was present, you would question why a fluent English speaker was not asking the questions and rightly so.
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    What I would love to know is why do people feel so threatened by the use of the Irish language that they get there knickers in a twist if someone starts speaking it.
    No one is "threatened" by the Irish language. I am objecting to Sinn Féin hijacking Irish culture for their own political means.
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    You anti-Irish language lot should be ashamed of yourselves.
    Excuse you, but I am not anti-Irish and to accuse me of being so is preposterous.
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Siding with the 'against anything Irish' Unionist bigots ahead of your own abandoned countrymen.
    That statement reads like something I would expect to see in a Sinn Féin propaganda class.


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    #65
    Jackie laughlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Jackie laughlin


    DJP,
    I share your reaction to the sight and sound of the Shinners' tokenism re the use of Irish.* However, you are antagonistic to state support for the Irish language. Your argument seems to be based on the numbers who speak it. This is the classic argument against many forms of public service. It plays on notions of cost and elitism. Taken to extremes it would mean the end, not just of he Irish language, but of RTE as we know it (NO, I don't just mean its Irish language component.) and virtually all Irish theatre.

    *FTA69, If you read this in isolation, you might look at my posts above. Otherwise you'll be accusing me of elitism again.


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    #66
    csk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭csk


    djpbarry wrote:
    Are you honestly trying to tell me that the people of Ireland need the permission of the DUP before they can learn Irish? That is utter nonsense.
    Ah here comes the spin. Of course it is utter nonsense. Who said otherwise?
    As has been stated numerous times, no one is denying anyone their rights.
    Unionists by trying to remove all traces of Irish Language.
    I very much doubt Unionists are afraid of Irish.
    All evidence suggests otherwise.
    By your logic, all services in Ireland should also be available in Polish and Chinese, seeing as they are more widely spoken in Ireland than Irish.
    Actually complete bollox.
    Polish people should be provided with services in the Polish language in Poland. Irish People should be provided with services in the Irish language in Ireland. It's quite simple piece of logic.
    I am objecting to Sinn Féin hijacking Irish culture for their own political means.
    Sinn Féin is an Irish political Party(the clue is in the name genius) therefore it is only natural that they would come under the influence of Irish culture. Of course in the doublethink involved in denying nationalists the right to identify with their culture. This simple act becomes "hijacking". :rolleyes:

    An Irish Langugae Act was pledged by the British Government. LAngugae rights are protected the world over. This is non controversial issue. Why people feel so threatened by the Irish Langugae is beyond me.


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    #67
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    csk wrote: »
    Irish People should be provided with services in the Irish language in Ireland. It's quite simple piece of logic.

    We are provided with services in our language. In the Republic, that is.

    Another simple piece of logic (that seems beyond you) is that the geographical entity of Ireland is different to the separate politcial entities of the Republic and the North.

    That's not a political statement, or aspiration. Just a statement of fact.
    csk wrote: »

    Of course in the doublethink involved in denying nationalists the right to identify with their culture. .

    Ah, the indiscriminate use of the word, nationalist. I know a great many Northern catholics who are anything but. Don't assume that everybody who is interested in our culture; everyone who feels good about our country, is part of your cabal.

    'Nationalists' are free to express their 'culture', whatever it is. In this case, the culture is the same victimization schtick that means you have to parade 'your language' in front of 'themuns'.

    The politicization of our language by some northern hair brains will hinder it's revival, not help it.


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    #68
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    djpbarry wrote: »
    That statement reads like something I would expect to see in a Sinn Féin propaganda class.
    Why can't you explain why you're against the Irish language Act in Stormont, without sidetracking the issue?

    (Try not to have a go at posters, the Shinners or anyone else when you respond. (i'm curious to see your viewpoint thats all))


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    #69
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    djpbarry wrote: »
    But that was not the question. Polish is more widely spoken in the Republic than Irish is in the North. Neither are official languages in the respective countries. So, I will ask again, if you attended a job interview in Ireland, would you object to the interview being conducted through Polish? Of course you would. Even if a translator was present, you would question why a fluent English speaker was not asking the questions and rightly so.

    Polish has no status in either jurisdiction on this island unlike Irish which is one of the official languages of this state and since the GFA Irish is also a recognised language in the Northern state.
    But as I said if the job entailed a knowledge of Polish I would have no objection I do not feel in anyway threatened by polish people speaking there own language.
    And this is Ireland trying to equate speaking Polish in Ireland with speaking Irish in Ireland is inherent nonsense


    djpbarry wrote: »
    No one is "threatened" by the Irish language. I am objecting to Sinn Féin hijacking Irish culture for their own political means.
    .

    See now we are at the nub of the issue you equate Irish with Provoism that is I am afraid your problem as has already been mentioned Irish is not the Preserve of any party or political viewpoint.
    If you object to irish being associated with the provos then the clear objective should be not to leave it to them instead of attempting to kill the languagein the vain hope that you will kill the provos with it.


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    #70
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    stovelid wrote: »
    We are provided with services in our language. In the Republic, that is.

    Another simple piece of logic (that seems beyond you) is that the geographical entity of Ireland is different to the separate politcial entities of the Republic and the North.

    That's not a political statement, or aspiration. Just a statement of fact.


    .


    Another statement of fact is that Irish people do not cease to be Irish because they live in the North. They are still living in Ireland and the GFA commits the British to support the Irish language in that jurisdiction


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    #71
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Jackie laughlin wrote: »
    you are antagonistic to state support for the Irish language. Your argument seems to be based on the numbers who speak it. This is the classic argument against many forms of public service. It plays on notions of cost and elitism. Taken to extremes it would mean the end, not just of he Irish language, but of RTE as we know it (NO, I don't just mean its Irish language component.) and virtually all Irish theatre.
    I understand that Irish is part of our heritage, but I don't think promotion of the Irish language can be put in the "public service" bracket. Promoting Irish is not the same as providing a bus service.
    csk wrote: »
    Unionists by trying to remove all traces of Irish Language.
    How exactly?
    csk wrote: »
    Irish People should be provided with services in the Irish language in Ireland.
    They are.
    csk wrote: »
    Of course in the doublethink involved in denying nationalists the right to identify with their culture.
    Nobody is doing anything of the sort.
    csk wrote: »
    An Irish Langugae Act was pledged by the British Government.
    So? What's your point?
    csk wrote: »
    LAngugae rights are protected the world over.
    Again, nobody is denying anyone their rights.
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Why can't you explain why you're against the Irish language Act in Stormont, without sidetracking the issue?
    I never said I was. I said I think it's daft that two different languages are used in Stormont. Apparently that makes me a Unionist bigot.
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Polish has no status in either jurisdiction on this island unlike Irish which is one of the official languages of this state and since the GFA Irish is also a recognised language in the Northern state.
    Irish is not an official language in Northern Ireland. Recognised is not the same as official.
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    And this is Ireland trying to equate speaking Polish in Ireland with speaking Irish in Ireland is inherent nonsense
    That is not what I was doing. I was drawing similarities between speaking Polish in Ireland and speaking Irish in the UK.
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    you equate Irish with Provoism
    No, I equate Sinn Fein with Provoism.

    Let me ask you all this; why does the Dail conduct its business through English?


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    #72
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Try not to have a go at posters, the Shinners or anyone else when you respond.
    But it's ok for you to have a go at posters?
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    You anti-Irish language lot should be ashamed of yourselves. Siding with the 'against anything Irish' Unionist bigots ahead of your own abandoned countrymen. The shame of it all! SF, SDLP, Alliance, Greens are all in favour of the language, just the Unionists trying to assert superiority over the Taigs are against it. Don't see why you guys have a problem with it

    In any case, who are my abandoned countrymen? If you mean catholics in Northern Ireland well I'm afraid they're not my countrymen. They're from the UK, even if the hold an irish passport.


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    #73
    csk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭csk


    stovelid wrote:
    We are provided with services in our language. In the Republic, that is.

    Another simple piece of logic (that seems beyond you) is that the geographical entity of Ireland is different to the separate politcial entities of the Republic and the North.

    That's not a political statement, or aspiration. Just a statement of fact.

    That's not beyond me at all as I pointed out earlier it's the people who seem t o have problem with Irish people speaking the Irish Language that have a problem understanding that that is the case. The border is largely irrelevant nowadays anyway, there is no fundamental difference between Crossmaglen and Carrickmacross.
    Ah, the indiscriminate use of the word, nationalist. I know a great many Northern catholics who are anything but. Don't assume that everybody who is interested in our culture; everyone who feels good about our country, is part of your cabal.

    Seriously what the hell is this supposed to mean. Alos what the hell does someone's religion have to do with this thread? In my experience only those predisposed to thinking along sectarian lines will trot out religion at the first available opportunity.

    As for my "cabal". Again this is nonsense. Do explain precisely what you mean.
    'Nationalists' are free to express their 'culture', whatever it is. In this case, the culture is the same victimization schtick that means you have to parade 'your language' in front of 'themuns'.

    More doublethink that sees Irish culture, especially the language, denigrated as "Victimization schtick" simply because its people from the north who wish to speak it and have their rights looked after.
    The politicization of our language by some northern hair brains will hinder it's revival, not help it.

    For once I agree. People like you on this thread are trying to make language rights a political football simply so you can bash Sinn Féin. As someone who has an interest in seeing the Irish language revived and all possible help given to those who wish to speak it on a daily basis, I find this attitude appalling. Reviving the Irish Language is a much bigger issue than party politics.


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    #74
    Jackie laughlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Jackie laughlin


    I realise that support for the Irish language is not the same as a bus service! Nevertheless, it is a public service just like the support given to a raft of other cultural institutions and activity. My point is that you cannot deny state support to Irish on commercial grounds without applying the same criteria to other supports and services - and going this route would be barbaric.

    The Shinners - or at least their leaders - are for the most part posers when it comes to the Irish language. It is clear that despite being fond of wanting to be called Irish nationalists, they couldn't be bothered learning it. As I said before, I don't particularly care if the average Irish person is not concerned with Irish but it's a fairly basic test of the credibility of someone anxious to claim the label of nationalist.


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    #75
    csk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭csk


    Jackie laughlin wrote:
    The Shinners - or at least their leaders - are for the most part posers when it comes to the Irish language. It is clear that despite being fond of wanting to be called Irish nationalists, they couldn't be bothered learning it. As I said before, I don't particularly care if the average Irish person is not concerned with Irish but it's a fairly basic test of the credibility of someone anxious to claim the label of nationalist.

    Elitist crap tbh. Maybe they didn't have the time or the services available in order to learn it. For example Gerry Adams only got to learn it because he was in jail. (cue some snide remark about the standard of Adams Irish).

    It's people like you who give the assorted Gaelgoirí, Irish enthusiasts and Irish associations a bad name.

    As for Sinn Féin itself, I am lead to believe that they are aiming to be able to conduct all their business through Irish by a set date.


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    #76
    Jackie laughlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Jackie laughlin


    Csk,
    Your insults won't wash. I have made my disdain for the "Fíor Ghael" elitists clear. I despise Irish speakers who demand that a person be reasonably fluent before they open their mouth. That kind of attitude is damaging to the Irish language.

    My point is that if someone sets themselves up as an Irish nationalist, it is not unreasonable to expect them to learn Irish. Now, if they have some overriding reason why they cannot do that, then fair enough. However, since you raise the case of Gerry Adams, is it not curious that he didn't learn the language while in jail and curioser still that his Irish has not improved in decades at liberty? Face it, he's a nationalist poser!

    If SF/IRA have set a date for complete adoption of Irish for intra-party business, I would be interested to see the programme for implementation. If it is a pious aspiration, it is no more than further posturing.


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    #77
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    csk wrote: »
    The border is largely irrelevant nowadays anyway
    Oh, that's convenient.
    csk wrote: »
    ...people from the north who wish to speak it and have their rights looked after.
    What is all this nonsense about "rights"?!?
    csk wrote: »
    People like you on this thread are trying to make language rights a political football
    No, Sinn Fein are.
    csk wrote: »
    As someone who has an interest in seeing the Irish language revived and all possible help given to those who wish to speak it on a daily basis
    Good luck to you, but that has little to do with an efficiently-run, productive Northern Assembly.
    csk wrote: »
    Reviving the Irish Language is a much bigger issue than party politics.
    Reviving the Irish language is hardly a priority in the North (or in the Republic for that matter).
    Jackie laughlin wrote: »
    My point is that you cannot deny state support to Irish on commercial grounds without applying the same criteria to other supports and services
    Well, that's not really what I was implying. I just don't feel that reviving the Irish language should be a priority, but that's just my opinion - I don't see the benefit. I would rather see the resources diverted elsewhere.
    Jackie laughlin wrote: »
    The Shinners - or at least their leaders - are for the most part posers when it comes to the Irish language. It is clear that despite being fond of wanting to be called Irish nationalists, they couldn't be bothered learning it.
    I couldn't agree more.
    csk wrote: »
    Elitist crap tbh. Maybe they didn't have the time or the services available in order to learn it.
    Then why the hell are they trying to run a government through a language they do not know fluently?
    csk wrote: »
    As for Sinn Féin itself, I am lead to believe that they are aiming to be able to conduct all their business through Irish by a set date.
    Fantastic. Does that mean they'll be proper nationalists then?

    I've already asked twice why it is that the Dail does not conduct its business through Irish and, low and behold, no one has responded. Could that be because it is an utterly ridiculous suggestion? Why then is it appropriate for the Northern Assembly to do just that?


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    #78
    csk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭csk


    Jackie laughlin wrote:
    Csk,
    Your insults won't wash. I have made my disdain for the "Fíor Ghael" elitists clear. I despise Irish speakers who demand that a person be reasonably fluent before they open their mouth. That kind of attitude is damaging to the Irish language.

    My point is that if someone sets themselves up as an Irish nationalist, it is not unreasonable to expect them to learn Irish. Now, if they have some overriding reason why they cannot do that, then fair enough. However, since you raise the case of Gerry Adams, is it not curious that he didn't learn the language while in jail and curioser still that his Irish has not improved in decades at liberty? Face it, he's a nationalist poser!

    If SF/IRA have set a date for complete adoption of Irish for intra-party business, I would be interested to see the programme for implementation. If it is a pious aspiration, it is no more than further posturing.

    Insults whatever.:rolleyes: I won't have people like you denigrating the Irish language or culture with your narrow minded political party nonsense.

    The overiding factors are obvious enough. In the north Irish was denigrated long enough by the establishment and proscribed from schools until relatively recently. The more historical reasons are well enough known without needing to go into detail and also to avoid the inevitable accusation of "Brit bashing".:rolleyes:

    As for certain people being "nationalist posers", what gibberish, what nonsense. It seems Sinn Féin are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If members of Sinn Féin don't speak the language fluently they are "nationalist posers", if they do speak it and attempt to secure the rights of other speakers they are charged with "hijacking" the language for their own ends. There is astonishing doublethink involved in those logical contortions.

    Afaik Aengus Ó Snódaigh, Pearse Doherty, Pádraig MacLochlainn are all fluent. Gerry Adams has some level of competency not perfect (still sure he's only a "poser":rolleyes:). I'm sure many many more are also competent in the Irish.

    As Sinn Féin conducting their business through Irish a quick glance through their website doesn't bring any luck. One thing that did jump out at me on their home page was Slógadh Shinn Féin 2007 hardly the stuff of "posers".


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    #79
    csk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭csk


    DJbarry

    If you cannot have the courtesy to quote me properly, instead trying to selectively and falsely attribute quotes to me in an effort to spin rather than actually address the issues, I'm not going to reply any further.


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    #80
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    csk wrote: »
    If you cannot have the courtesy to quote me properly, instead trying to selectively and falsely attribute quotes to me in an effort to spin rather than actually address the issues, I'm not going to reply any further.
    Relax! Genuine mistake! All is well now ;).


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    #81
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,831 ✭✭✭SeanW


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Let me ask you all this; why does the Dail conduct its business through English?
    Both English and Ancient Gaelic (a.k.a Irish) are valid languages for use in the Dail. However, English is the language most used because English is our language.

    Gaelic is sometimes used when a minister wants to introduce potentially controversial legislation in a manner that will avoid debate though.


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    #82
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    SeanW wrote: »
    Both English and Ancient Gaelic (a.k.a Irish) are valid languages for use in the Dail. However, English is the language most used because English is our language.
    Exactly. It is the language that is most widely understood in this country. So why is it that people cannot agree that it is a bit of a waste of time to have representatives in Stormont speaking in broken Irish when most of the people present do not understand what is being said? It has absolutely nothing to do with human (language) rights; it is purely a matter of efficiency.


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    #83
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    csk wrote: »

    Seriously what the hell is this supposed to mean. Alos what the hell does someone's religion have to do with this thread? In my experience only those predisposed to thinking along sectarian lines will trot out religion at the first available opportunity.

    As for my "cabal". Again this is nonsense. Do explain precisely what you mean.
    .

    K.

    It's in response to the interchangeable use of the phrase 'nationalists'.

    Not all Irish speakers /catholics/ Irish are nationalists; however, this doesn't stop republicans from branding them all as such for reasons of politcial contingency.

    There are plenty of Irish speakers /catholics/ Irish who don't wish to be identified with nationalism, including me.

    Of course, shinners are probably not the only culprits. Anybody who uses the Irish language to score political points against the 'others' is an embarrassment.
    djpbarry wrote: »
    Exactly. It is the language that is most widely understood in this country. So why is it that people cannot agree that it is a bit of a waste of time to have representatives in Stormont speaking in broken Irish when most of the people present do not understand what is being said? It has absolutely nothing to do with human (language) rights; it is purely a matter of efficiency.

    Agreed.

    It's not just rude when it's unionists that you're obfuscating with Irish; it would be rude to insist on speaking any language that the majority of your audience doesn't understand.

    It's only those with a political motive that try and turn it a do-or-die cultural imperative.


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    #84
    Jackie laughlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Jackie laughlin


    Djp,
    Is it just the Irish language that is low in your priorities for state support or would you withdraw state funding from all areas of culture?

    Yes, it would be ludicrous to attempt to do Dail business in Irish. The Irish language is part of what we are - nothing more, nothing less.

    Csk,
    Ok, I'm slow on the uptake: you are joking. My excuse is that I feel strongly about the language and all things Irish but I'm comfortable with and confident about my culture.


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    #85
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    murphaph wrote: »
    In any case, who are my abandoned countrymen? If you mean catholics in Northern Ireland well I'm afraid they're not my countrymen. They're from the UK, even if the hold an irish passport.

    You see this is the kind of attitude I can't understand. :confused: Did people living in the 26 Counties suddenly become Irish in 1922? No, we were always Irish just living under British political rule. Firstly you fob off you're own countrymen who were partitioned on the otherside of a gerrymandered border drawn through Ireland against peoples wishes, and now you're against their language rights, and parity of esteem being respected. Unbelievable attitude :rolleyes:


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    #86
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Jackie laughlin wrote: »
    Djp,
    Is it just the Irish language that is low in your priorities for state support or would you withdraw state funding from all areas of culture?
    I'm not suggesting state funding should be withdrawn for Irish language support, just scaled down a bit, although, admittedly, I do not know how much government funding goes to the likes of Foras na Gaeilge.

    I have no problem with anyone who wants to learn Irish - fair play to them. There should be a certain amount of support to help them along the way. But I do have a problem with the fact that Irish is rammed down our throats a bit and I do not appreciate that. Case in point:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/students--angry-at--allirish-demand-1197812.html

    I firmly believe that if something is forced on people (young people in particular), it will only succeed in turning them away from it.
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Firstly you fob off you're own countrymen who were partitioned on the otherside of a gerrymandered border drawn through Ireland against peoples wishes
    They are not my countrymen. How many of them were around when the border was drawn? I know I wasn't. It was 85 years ago - get over it.

    Besides, may I remind you that the majority of people in the North consider themselves either British or Northern Irish (65%). Just because you have decided that the people of Northern Ireland are your countrymen, does not make it so.
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    and now you're against their language rights
    Seriously, what are you basing this on :confused:?


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    #87
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    djpbarry wrote: »
    They are not my countrymen. How many of them were around when the border was drawn? I know I wasn't. It was 85 years ago - get over it.

    Besides, may I remind you that the majority of people in the North consider themselves either British or Northern Irish (65%). Just because you have decided that the people of Northern Ireland are your countrymen, does not make it so.
    They are from Ireland so they are my countrymen. :) Many of them play Gaelic Games, and represent their county, and clubs in the All-Ireland series, speak Irish, have Irish passports etc etc and most importantly consider themselves IRISH. Thats a good enough reason to call them my countrymen.

    Due to the continuing demographic changes with regard the Nationalist/Unionist ratio, I suspect the Northern statlet may be no longer in existence within the next few decades anyway, (depending obviously on what way majority vote in an inevitable reunification referendum)


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    #88
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Due to the continuing demographic changes with regard the Nationalist/Unionist ratio, I suspect the Northern statlet may be no longer in existence within the next few decades anyway, (depending obviously on what way majority vote in an inevitable reunification referendum)

    You seem quite confident that all northern catholics would vote for a united Ireland. :)


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    #89
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Many of them play Gaelic Games, and represent their county, and clubs in the All-Ireland series, speak Irish, have Irish passports etc etc and most importantly consider themselves IRISH.
    According to the 2001 census in Northern Ireland, only about 10% of the population in the North 'had some knowledge of Irish'. I would hardly say that "Many of them ... speak Irish". Besides, just because someone plays Gaelic football, doesn't mean they want a United Ireland. You are making rather general assumptions here.
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Due to the continuing demographic changes with regard the Nationalist/Unionist ratio, I suspect the Northern statlet may be no longer in existence within the next few decades anyway, (depending obviously on what way majority vote in an inevitable reunification referendum)
    Inevitable? What makes you think the people of Northern Ireland want to be part of the Republic? Only about 30% of them support such a move.


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    #90
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Personally, I cant think of one good reason why Irish should be used in Stormont or the Dail.

    Its a quaint & ancient language, and I say lets keep it ~ but dont impose it on the rest of us who Dont speak or understand it!


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    #91
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    They are from Ireland so they are my countrymen. :)
    That's your perspective on it, and presumably you'd like people to respect that that's the way you feel, even if they don't agree with you. The least you could do in return is respect that other people don't feel that way, even if you don't agree with them.


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