Pharmacists not dispensing methadone to junkies.

Degsy

Apparantly 140 chemists are refusing to dispense methadone as a result of a row with the Health Service Executive.The HSE are planning to pay less to the pharmacies for drugs to save money and they've reacted by blanking the junkies.Chemsists,it would seem are greedy bastards.I wonder what would happen if they got rid of methadone maintanance altogether,its already costing the taxpayer a fortune and there's more junkies around than ever.Its not like the HSE will fund my drinking habits by subsidising beer at my local off license.

Red Hand

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

prendy

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

And rightly so......
theres a big difference.one is uncontrollable the other is self induced.

robinph

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

I know I would anyway.

It's kind of weird that they have picked methadone to stop dispensing as there is not going to be much support for their cause by them picking on the junkies as 'respectable' society will just ignore them.

Noopti

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

And rightly so.

KTRIC

F*ck the junkies, let them go cold turkey. Could be good for a laugh.

is_that_so

Have a listen to this from Drivetime yesterday. It's 15 minutes long and it has views from both sides on it. IMO it adds a bit of balance but it still makes me wonder how something like this is allowed to get to this point.

Red Hand

prendy wrote: »

And rightly so......
theres a big difference.one is uncontrollable the other is self induced.

A good many people develop type 2 diabetes due to being overweight and having poor diets/large alcohol consumption.

Self induced indeed.

robinph

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

A good many people develop type 2 diabetes due to being overweight and having poor diets/large alcohol consumption.

Self induced indeed.

Although there would not be a huge number of type 2 diabetics would be on insulin.

Savman

Ah sure they're only junkies :rolleyes:

What an odd dispute.

Sir Random

Targeting people on methadone is a disgraceful, unethical way of trying to blackmail the government. What's next, will they stop dispensing blood-pressure medicine to pensioners?

I won't be surprised if pharmacies are the first to suffer from a new wave of jump-overs, etc.

robinph

is_that_so wrote: »

Have a listen to this from Drivetime yesterday. It's 15 minutes long and it has views from both sides on it. IMO it adds a bit of balance but it still makes me wonder how something like this is allowed to get to this point.

So they picked methadone because the people on that drug are younger and more able to obtain a replacement drug from other sources according to the first person they interviewed. :eek:

If the drug dealers were dishing out insulin on the street then I guess they would have picked that instead then.

yom 1

Sir Random wrote: »

Targeting people on methadone is a disgraceful, unethical way of trying to blackmail the government. What's next, will they stop dispensing blood-pressure medicine to pensioners?

I won't be surprised if pharmacies are the first to suffer from a new wave of jump-overs, etc.

Whats next apparently is that the IPU and all its members will not accept any HSE scheme from the start of november to include any medical cards and drug payment scheme(only have to pay 80 a month, anything over this is free). This will force massive outcry from the general public. You think of the grannies out there with massive medical expenses every month who will be forced to pay for everything now instead of the medical card paying it.

This is all due to the HSE dropping the payments they will make on drugs to pharmacies. The idea behind this is to force them to start using cheaper more generic drugs. Now imo if I have to take some sort of drug I'd rather the more expensive original one that works than a generic one which does pretty much the same thing just because its cheaper. And I'd guess most people would be the same. Pharmacists will know this and they will end up selling stuff at a loss.

Like others I cant believe the HSE has let it get this far but the IPU are right to fight them on it. They cant sell stuff at a loss

kev_s88

do you really think a lack of methodone is gonna bother these junkbags???


NO... there just gonna go out and get whacked on something else like paint or white spirits!!! they'll always find a cheap alternative!!!

Dragan

I was actually listening to this in a taxi yesterday and i was fuming.

I'm real sorry, i understand that people get addicted to this and that, but please for the love of god **** off if you expect any pity because you can't get your government supplied fix for a problem that you create for yourself.

Being addicted to heroin is not a "disease" or an "illness", it is not something you are forced into nor is it a product of your upbringing and environment.

I have friends who had hard lives in some of the worst area's of Ireland and they are not junkies.

The weak will always latch on to an excuse for their problems and look for others to fix them.

NO methadone? Tough ****.

Alun

yom 1 wrote: »

The idea behind this is to force them to start using cheaper more generic drugs.

Quite right too. A chemical is a chemical regardless of what factory its made in.

Now imo if I have to take some sort of drug I'd rather the more expensive original one that works than a generic one which does pretty much the same thing just because its cheaper. And I'd guess most people would be the same.

I couldn't care less as long as it does the job. Which just goes to show what "most people" know.

the_syco

F**k the junkies. They're on it cos they want to get high. They can come off it, and be ok. Heck, they even GET A F**KING JOB.

You can die if you don't take your insulin, though.

Alun wrote: »

Quite right too. A chemical is a chemical regardless of what factory its made in.

I couldn't care less as long as it does the job. Which just goes to show what "most people" know.

A-grade drugs, and the sh|t that fails the quality tests are both made in the same factory. Doesn't mean that they'll both do the job.

Tigger

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

i don't understand the connection

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

generic drugs are, in general just as good as the big name drugs. Doctors prescripe the big name drugs, because they get lovely dinners and nights away sponsored by the drug companies.

also, ifyou're that upset about junkies... don't drink any alcohol, don't smoke a fag and don't have any coffee for 2 months.. see what that does to you.

muppets.

robinph

rbd wrote: »

i don't understand the connection

It's a drug that is dished out for free and the price that the chemists are paid each time is probably affected by this change in the HSE rules as well so they could have picked insulin as the one to stop dispensing.

Wertz

The one thing I don't undertaand in all of this, is after watching interviews with ex-junkies on the news last night, I learned that this country's physeptone programme continues INDEFINITELY....guys in their 40s and 50s were talking about being on meth for 7 and 8 YEARS! I mean what the bloody f*ck?
From what I know of methadone, it's a heroin substitute intended for use as an aid to withdrawal, which can kill heroin addicts trying to go clean, and later on as a substitute to stop craving and relapse.....but 7 f*cking years?
I'm no doctor but I have to ask why aren't doses gradually lowered with an eye to eventually allowing the addict to become fully clean? As it stands now, they're just queuing up to get their fix just like they always did...the only difference being that they're not robbing someone and sticking a needle in their arm.
But that's neither here nor there....the issue at hand is that these people (let's not forget they ARE people) are being placed in a very bad situation through no direct fault of their own (ignoring the fact that they started taking heroin all those years ago)....the consequences range from someone being unable to go to their work (not all junkies are dole bums) to people relapsing and going back on the gear, with all the consequences that has for both them and society at large.

As usual the attitude on here (ah they're only scum, fcuk them) is probably indicative of what Joe Public is thinking out in celtic tiger land...what many of you don't realise is that the methadone programme is already underfnded and is neither widespread nor diverse enough to cope with the heroin problem countrywide. That is down to the HSE.
The blame for the current debacle however lies squarely at the door of the greedy pharmacists...there are plenty of other ways they could protest....this just gets them the most media attention and pisses off the fewest potential paying customers.

Yom1 wrote:

The idea behind this is to force them to start using cheaper more generic drugs. Now imo if I have to take some sort of drug I'd rather the more expensive original one

I'm sorry....what?
A generic drug merely means that it's not branded and is only cheaper due to lower licensing fees, lack of advertisment and promotion; it still does exactly what the branded one would do....why should the HSE and ultimately the taxpayer prop up already highly wealthy drug companies by continuing to pay over the odds when generic drugs do the exact same thing for less money?
If you want to pay for the branding then go right ahead, but you shouldn't expect to have the bill footed for your whim...

Degsy

Dragan wrote: »

I was actually listening to this in a taxi yesterday and i was fuming.

I'm real sorry, i understand that people get addicted to this and that, but please for the love of god **** off if you expect any pity because you can't get your government supplied fix for a problem that you create for yourself.

Being addicted to heroin is not a "disease" or an "illness", it is not something you are forced into nor is it a product of your upbringing and environment.

I have friends who had hard lives in some of the worst area's of Ireland and they are not junkies.

The weak will always latch on to an excuse for their problems and look for others to fix them.

NO methadone? Tough ****.

hence my off licencse analogy.I like having a drink every so often and i can stop whenever i feel like it.I dont however expect the taxpayer to fund my lifestyle by providing me with free cans for fear i wont be able to sleep at nights.Junkies are victims of thier own behaviour,nothing else.If they want to stop being junkies all they need to do is stop taking drugs.Simple as that.I dont give a shiit how "sick" they feel and how much they whinge that they "need" "thier" "phy".They dont need anything,they just think they do.There's a lot of people suffering genuine illness in this country who cant afford to go to the doctor or afford the medication,look at the woman who dies of bowel cancer because she had to wait for a procedure.Junkies cant wait ten minutes before they're bleating.

Tigger

Dragan wrote: »

I was actually listening to this in a taxi yesterday and i was fuming.

I'm real sorry, i understand that people get addicted to this and that, but please for the love of god **** off if you expect any pity because you can't get your government supplied fix for a problem that you create for yourself.

Being addicted to heroin is not a "disease" or an "illness", it is not something you are forced into nor is it a product of your upbringing and environment.

I have friends who had hard lives in some of the worst area's of Ireland and they are not junkies.

The weak will always latch on to an excuse for their problems and look for others to fix them.

NO methadone? Tough ****.

i was reading down this thread wondering where ireland had gone

good post Dargan


did anyone see the 9 o clock news to young men with their faces all blurry stating that if there was no methadone they will "rod so they can get heroin"

is robbing not illegal
is herion not illegal

also the pharamisists are not the only source of methadone

the customners can go to trinity house or some other state sponsered drug house

arrest them if they do crime then dont let drugs (or plasma tellies or sky or phones or budgies) in to the prisions

and why not

Tigger

Mordeth wrote: »

also, ifyou're that upset about junkies... don't drink any alcohol, don't smoke a fag and don't have any coffee for 2 months.. see what that does to you.

muppets.

i have its easy

and calling posters muppetts is just pointless

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

don't be ridiculous wertz, people who take drugs aren't people.

oneeyedsnake

Mordeth wrote: »

also, ifyou're that upset about junkies... don't drink any alcohol, don't smoke a fag and don't have any coffee for 2 months.. see what that does to you.

Done that,don't see what the problem is.Muppet.Worthless junkies should be liquidated by the state in my opinion.

Degsy

rbd wrote: »

i was reading down this thread wondering where ireland had gone

good post Dargan


did anyone see the 9 o clock news to young men with their faces all blurry stating that if there was no methadone they will "rod so they can get heroin"

is robbing not illegal
is herion not illegal

also the pharamisists are not the only source of methadone

the customners can go to trinity house or some other state sponsered drug house

arrest them if they do crime then dont let drugs (or plasma tellies or sky or phones or budgies) in to the prisions

and why not

The pricks have it too easy.They're not man(or woman) enough to go through a bout of cold turkey and get themselves clean.Mountjoy is no deterent as its full of heroin as well as thier methadone program.Read any book about Irish prisoners:The Joy,Streetwise,The Junkyard and you will see that these people are getting spoonfed drugs no matter where they happen to be.They shouldnt be allowed to hold the taxpayer to ransom,either..cut off the methadone,give ten year sentences for robbery and lock them up in solitary till they sweat the drugs out of them.If they die in the process who gives a shiite?

Tigger

robinph wrote: »

It's a drug that is dished out for free and the price that the chemists are paid each time is probably affected by this change in the HSE rules as well so they could have picked insulin as the one to stop dispensing.

insulin is a medicine surley; for people unable to produce it correctly themselves

also its not needed to be taken on premises

as far as i'm concerened the pharmasists should not dispense methadone
it should be in clinics

the argument about the HSE on the 8-18% change is a different matter

if they want to discuss it they can its a group purchase scheme and as the biggest customer in many areas the HSE is entitiled to haggle

MzFusspot

Degsy wrote: »

Junkies are victims of thier own behaviour,nothing else.If they want to stop being junkies all they need to do is stop taking drugs.Simple as that.I dont give a shiit how "sick" they feel and how much they whinge that they "need" "thier" "phy".They dont need anything,they just think they do.There's a lot of people suffering genuine illness in this country .

Addiction is a genuine illness, hard and all as it is to be sorry for people who inflicted themselves with it. You've got a lot of truth in there though, all they need to do is stop. The problem is that it's not quite as easy as 'Do you know, I think I'm done with heroin! I don't need it, I just think I do!' or the same for drink, smokes, hiding in the bathroom eating Gateaux Swiss Rolls squeezed straight from the plastic etc. If it was we'd have an awful lot less of addicts of all forms knocking round the place. You can stop but you need an awful lot of help breaking the physical and mental addictions

No one's asking you to hug a junkie or take one in and detox them in your bathroom but a little empathy wouldn't hurt.

Wertz

rbd wrote: »

as far as i'm concerened the pharmasists should not dispense methadone
it should be in clinics

That's a very good point....methadone programmes have merely been outsourced to pharmacy shops by the HSE as a way to avoid them having to have dedicated clinics and staff. That's not to say that pharmacists don't make a good wage out of it (if they didn't why would they jeopardise potential business from "normal" customers whom 99% of probaly don't want to stand in the same shop as a heroin addict) but ultimately it's just another cost cutting excersise....soemthing the HSE seem to be good at in terms of patients; less so with their 20 layers of beauracracy...

Folks, how someone became a junkie isn't really up for discussion here....it's crying over spilt milk. The fact is that we have these dependant people and as degsy points out they can more or less hold us to ransom. The money spent to placate their addiction is small beans comapred to the financial costs of crime used to fund a habit and the money leaving the economy and pouring into some drug lord's pocket.
You can say "lock them up, let them die" and whatever, but we're a civilised society...as much as many peole might want to do that, we can't...

Analogies with drink aren't really applicable unless you're a chronic alcoholic....for most of these people meth doesn't even get them high; it just takes the edge off, kills the craving so they can try and get on with their day to day lives.

Savman

Dragan wrote: »

Being addicted to heroin is not a "disease" or an "illness", it is not something you are forced into nor is it a product of your upbringing and environment.

Maaaan you're out of touch. Upbringing is very much at the core of the issue. I've seen old school friends get led down the wrong road and turn into something resembling a zombie looking for brains. That is not the person they truly are and behind that junkie condition there was a real person once. One fella I know lost his mother at a very young age and ended up on heroin, went thru some very bad years as a junkie and is now out the other side, somehow still breathing.

I have friends who had hard lives in some of the worst area's of Ireland and they are not junkies.

ROFL!

The weak will always latch on to an excuse for their problems and look for others to fix them.

Yes they will oh strong mighty one :rolleyes:
The same could be said for people with addictions to gambling, alcohol, cigarettes etc.

NO methadone? Tough ****.

You dont have to have sympathy, that's probably expected for somebody as perfect as you, but without a full understanding of the whole situation neither you nor I nor anyone can really pass judgment on what is a very complicated problem.

Its a world none of us understand and "you always fear what you don't understand". That was in Batman Begins. Good movie.

Archeron

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20001203/ai_n14516176

Arent we all just perfect examples of humanity here on boards.ie

Many peoples lives have been destroyed by the scourge of heroin, and whether we like it or not, as a so called civilised society, we have to deal with it in the best, most humane way possible.
Remember people in central Dublin marching against the drugs and what they were doing to society and to our cities? Remember young peoples lives being devastated? Remember families being torn apart by this epidemic?

Of course, it doesnt involve us, so who gives a f*ck. What a delightful attitude.

Tigger

Wertz wrote: »

That's a very good point....methadone programmes have merely been outsourced to pharmacy shops by the HSE as a way to avoid them having to have dedicated clinics and staff. That's not to say that pharmacists don't make a good wage out of it (if they didn't why would they jeopardise potential business from "normal" customers whom 99% of probaly don't want to stand in the same shop as a heroin addict)

Folks, how someone became a junkie isn't really up for discussion here....it's crying over spilt milk. The fact is that we have these dependant people and as degsy points out they can more or less hold us to ransom. The money spent to placate their addiction is small beans comapred to the financial costs of crime used to fund a habit and the money leaving the economy and pouring into some drug lord's pocket.
You can say "lock them up, let them die" and whatever, but we're a civilised society...as much as many peole might want to do that, we can't...

Analogies with drink aren't really applicable unless you're a chronic alcoholic....for most of these people meth doesn't even get them high; it just takes the edge off, kills the craving so they can try and get on with their day to day lives.

I do feel that it should be a programme of depletion (of methadone not junkies) not of maintaince

yom 1

Wertz wrote: »

If you want to pay for the branding then go right ahead, but you shouldn't expect to have the bill footed for your whim...

For your information I dont avail of any HSE funded schemes so if I need drugs (which thankfully I dont that often) I pay for it fully, 100% me, my money, my choice. I dont expect anyone to pay for my WHIM.... but that was a first class effort in making an assumption!

Like I said I can understand where the HSE is coming from but likewise the IPU knows that its, shall we say older more fussy clients, off whom they make most of their money, will not want to be given generic drugs.

The HSE needs to reduce its spending - which is fine but surely they could have reached a middle ground before things got this far instead of forcing pharmacists to sell the more popular drugs at a loss

Tigger

Archeron wrote: »

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20001203/ai_n14516176

Arent we all just perfect examples of humanity here on boards.ie

SNIP

Of course, it doesnt involve us, so who gives a f*ck. What a delightful attitude.

thats what you see when you read this thread?

Dragan

Savman wrote: »

ROFL!

Can i just ask why you feel that comment was worthy of a laugh?

Savman wrote: »

Its a world none of us understand and "you always fear what you don't understand". That was in Batman Begins. Good movie.

I believe that film also had the quote "It's not who i am underneath, but what i do that defines me."?

Degsy

Wertz wrote: »

kills the craving so they can try and get on with their day to day lives.

And what day to day lives would that be?Stealing,dealing drugs,drinking,pricking around and taking drugs.being a junkie in most cases is a lifestyle choice.Its also a full-time job that has its own vocabulary,heirarchy,behaviour patterns and **** knows what else.If you listen to these shiitheads on the street or on the bus,they're not ashamed of themselves,they're not trying to get clean.They're living the full-time junkie lifestyle and embracing everything that goes with it.They brag about how much their habit costs,they sell the methadone to other junkies so they can buy heroin and a lot of them deal heroin and other drugs to fund thier habit.Leave them to it i say,but dont expect me to pay for it.

Savman

Archeron wrote: »

Of course, it doesnt involve us, so who gives a f*ck. What a delightful attitude.

While I agree with your sentiments, you have to accept that the keyboard warriors here on boards is a fair reflection of society as a whole. That's kinda the way Ireland is these days, the attitude of "brush it under the carpet and as long as them junkies stay away from me then they can die a horrible death for all I care." Me me me me.

Ignorance is bliss. Most people **** themselves if a junkie so much as asks them the time. Its not the heroin addicts that are going around with guns shooting everything in sight. Do not confuse junkies with scumbags.

Tigger

Dragan wrote: »

Can i just ask why you feel that comment was worthy of a laugh?

i don't think he belives you

I believe that film also had the quote "It's not who i am underneath, but what i do that defines me."?

if you want a batman quote

I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you.

Dragan

rbd wrote: »

i don't think he belives you

Ah right. Well it is an message board afterall, so i wouldn't really expect him to? Once he doesn't expect me to give a **** either way.

Wertz

rbd wrote: »

I do feel that it should be a programme of depletion (of methadone not junkies) not of maintaince

Oh definitely....I've been trying to find answers on google but medical opinions seem to vary widely on how long methadone programmes should last. Some say months, some say years.
But replacement therapy, if it's working, should definitely be with an eye to weaning people off the replacement substance too. You shouldn't even need to tell addicts that you're doing this (as the addiction is very psycological at this stage)...merely cutting their dosage every month by a few mg should eventually train any dependant into non-dependence.

BTW methdaone itself has a much harsher withdrawl phase than heroin, which is kind of ironic...the cold turkey period also lasts longer. All that and it doesn't even get you pinned....bummer.

Tigger

Savman wrote: »

While I agree with your sentiments, you have to accept that the keyboard warriors here on boards is a fair reflection of society as a whole. That's kinda the way Ireland is these days, the attitude of "brush it under the carpet and as long as them junkies stay away from me then they can die a horrible death for all I care." Me me me me.

Ignorance is bliss. Most people **** themselves if a junkie so much as asks them the time. Its not the heroin addicts that are going around with guns shooting everything in sight. Do not confuse junkies with scumbags.

if a junkie asks they time is it more likley he ;
1..wants yer mobile

2..wants to know what time the methadone is ready

3..is on his way to a job interview and due to traffic has been delayed and feels he may need to ring ahead to explain

is_that_so

Wertz wrote: »

That's a very good point....methadone programmes have merely been outsourced to pharmacy shops by the HSE as a way to avoid them having to have dedicated clinics and staff. That's not to say that pharmacists don't make a good wage out of it (if they didn't why would they jeopardise potential business from "normal" customers whom 99% of probaly don't want to stand in the same shop as a heroin addict) but ultimately it's just another cost cutting excersise....soemthing the HSE seem to be good at in terms of patients; less so with their 20 layers of beauracracy...

There are only so many clinics that can be funded.
One of the problems with clinics, as pointed out by Paddy O'Gorman in the piece I linked to is that addicts who "might" be trying to give up don't have to run the gauntlet of a clinic surrounded by addicts. Nor does anyone else for that matter. A pharmacy can serve the local population better and help eliminate that type of problem. Without the pharmacies they revert to gathering outside clinics. I recall Pearse Street clinic he mentions and had I needed to, would certainly not have been inclined to go near the place with the constant gathering of junkies outside.

Savman

Dragan wrote: »

Can i just ask why you feel that comment was worthy of a laugh?

The whole argument of "my mate is from Finglas and he doesnt own a horse" is so ridiculous it defies any logical response. Many people from Finglas are successfull career folk. But some own horses. And some are gun toting scum.
That statement is such a cliche, it makes me laugh when people use it trying to make a serious point, because it really doesnt prove anything.

I believe that film also had the quote "It's not who i am underneath, but what i do that defines me."?

Maybe, but isn't Batman the defender of weak and vulnerable?

Tigger

Wertz wrote: »

Oh definitely....I've been trying to find answers on google but medical opinions seem to vary widely on how long methadone programmes should last. Some say months, some say years.
But replacement therapy, if it's working, should definitely be with an eye to weaning people off the replacement substance too. You shouldn't even need to tell addicts that you're doing this (as the addiction is very psycological at this stage)...merely cutting their dosage every month by a few mg should eventually train any dependant into non-dependence.

BTW methdaone itself has a much harsher withdrawl phase than heroin, which is kind of ironic...the cold turkey period also lasts longer. All that and it doesn't even get you pinned....bummer.

i was looking on google also seems that the more drawn out symptons are less physically damaging from the meth

cance

no sympathy tbfh,

they'll find another way to score drugs.

Dragan

Savman wrote: »

The whole argument of "my mate is from Finglas and he doesnt own a horse" is so ridiculous it defies any logical response. Many people from Finglas are successfull career folk. But some own horses. And some are gun toting scum.
That statement is such a cliche, it makes me laugh when people use it trying to make a serious point, because it really doesnt prove anything.

While i see your point the simple fact is that the reasons some of the people with heroin problems were offering up for why they started using were similarly cliche "it was all around me" , "everyone was doing it" , "what was i supposed to do".

I think we all know people who have hard lives and easy lives and i think we all know people from both paths who might have some kind of substance issue and some from both paths who have made a great success of themselves? The simple fact is that at each stage , for each person , a choice was made and accepting some responsibility for yourself never goes astray.

Savman wrote: »

Maybe, but isn't Batman the defender of weak and vulnerable?

Only in the films, if you like the comics he's really just a lunatic with a rubber fetish who can't get over the fact that there was **** all he could do to save his parents. He's not defending the weak and vulnerable, he's desperately trying to find a reason to forgive himself for what he see's as failing his family. But i think that might be another topic.

Tigger

is_that_so wrote: »

I recall Pearse Street clinic he mentions and had I needed to, would certainly not have been inclined to go near the place with the constant gathering of junkies outside.

it was called trinity house and i had to deliver methadone there about 14 yrs ago from the rutland clinic

i was a dispatch biker and they never told me what i had in the bag

there vwere about 20 junkies outside and they were all asking what i was ding there i said i was picking up

i rang the intercom and a security guy came to the door took him forever to let me in

it was a truley horrible place

Savman

rbd wrote: »

if a junkie asks they time is it more likley he ;
1..wants yer mobile

2..wants to know what time the methadone is ready

3..is on his way to a job interview and due to traffic has been delayed and feels he may need to ring ahead to explain

What does it matter, by the time you tell him the time he's forgotten he's asked. By picking on the heroin junkies, you're really just picking on the weak, vulnerable and/or stupid. People who really have no clue and are not of sound mind. It's no different than bullying someone with a disability because that's what these people have.
They can be waned off the stuff over time, let's see you try wane a pistol out of the dealers hand. Who's worse here, the guy injecting the stuff or the guy driving a Merc on the profits? It's a vicious circle, and you're just picking on the little guy cos, like the rest of us, you're afraid of the big guy.

Tigger

Savman wrote: »

What does it matter, by the time you tell him the time he's forgotten he's asked. By picking on the heroin junkies, you're really just picking on the weak, vulnerable and/or stupid.

i'm not picking on him i want to wean him off it and give him skills and a job

i want to teach him to fish not just give him fish

People who really have no clue and are not of sound mind. It's no different than bullying someone with a disability because that's what these people have

.


'm gonna agree to disagree here

They can be waned off the stuff over time, let's see you try wane a pistol out of the dealers hand. Who's worse here, the guy injecting the stuff or the guy driving a Merc on the profits? It's a vicious circle, and you're just picking on the little guy cos, like the rest of us, you're afraid of the big guy.

i'm not picking on anyone

the guy in the merc is a different issue and i'm not scared of him i just think he likes it when i'm polite

Wertz

yom 1 wrote: »

For your information I dont avail of any HSE funded schemes so if I need drugs (which thankfully I dont that often) I pay for it fully, 100% me, my money, my choice. I dont expect anyone to pay for my WHIM.... but that was a first class effort in making an assumption!

Like I said I can understand where the HSE is coming from but likewise the IPU knows that its, shall we say older more fussy clients, off whom they make most of their money, will not want to be given generic drugs.

Wertz wrote:

If you want to pay for the branding then go right ahead, but you shouldn't expect to have the bill footed for your whim...

Okay, use of the term "you" wasn't general enough....this wasn't intended as an attack on your lifestyle choices, more so a dig at people with that attitude toward generic drugs to begin with. It's none of my business if you buy your pharmaceuticals, have them part funded or fully supplied by the tax payer and I wasn't making that assumption or judging you for it.

Older more fussy clients demading brand name drugs?
It's a feckin' chemists...you go in with a prescription from your doctor...at the bottom of it all it's not down to the patient what drug they're prescribed, but if they want the fancy packaging and adverts then they should pay the difference, that is my point.
As for the IPU ending up selling brand names at a loss? Sorry but :rolleyes: