Medicine change

Seloth

I heard from a friend of mine whos brother is currently doing medince that there talks of changing it,so rather on relying on points,you'd have to do an interview.Some grade do apply still though.

Personally I think this is much better.There are plenty of people who would make brilliant docters but miss out on the points.There are a shortage in the country and they have the points at 570.

A interview would short it out more fairly.For instance I 'd love to be one,I have been recommened to try for it by a few Docter whom I know before but I dought I'd make the points.

Any other peoples thoughts?

ryanairzer

If the points were 300 there wouldn't be any more doctors, you do realise that?

Seloth

If there were a proper system for sorting it out there would be.

And your statment make no sense on so mnay lvls.

Xhristy

This post has been deleted.

Seloth

That sounds fair enough.

EamonnKeane

Regarding the aptitude test, are they actually taking the piss? "We've decided that exams are an inexact measure of how good a doctor you will make. So we've replaced these exams with tests."

Seloth

You do relise that once you've taken that and if you pass thent hey will see if you will be a good docter or not regarding all the tests that are need to be take over the course.

sd123

why not give candidates tests based on areas relivant to medicine rather that seeing how well they can do in subjects completely unrelated to medicine. Eg. one guy does phy, chem, bio, maths, app maths and engineering. and gets 600 points. the other guy does art, eng, german, italian, geo and accounting and gets 600 points and gets Higher C's in chem and ag sci for matriculation reqs. This is why the LC is a balls.

Jayeire

They've been merely "talking" about this for years. It's about time they took some serious action; talking is easy.
I rang CAO last year to see what the story was and according to the director of CAO this system won't be in use to at least gone 2009. So if your planning on studying medicine get studying now, because otherwise your pretty much screwed!

ZorbaTehZ

sd123 wrote: »

why not give candidates tests based on areas relivant to medicine rather that seeing how well they can do in subjects completely unrelated to medicine. Eg. one guy does phy, chem, bio, maths, app maths and engineering. and gets 600 points. the other guy does art, eng, german, italian, geo and accounting and gets 600 points and gets Higher C's in chem and ag sci for matriculation reqs. This is why the LC is a balls.

He speaks the truth.

Seloth

Seloth wrote: »

If there were a proper system for sorting it out there would be.

And your statment make no sense on so mnay lvls.

Colleges admit X amount of people per year. If they are changing how they are admitting people but keeping the same limit of people (also X, to simplify it) then they will still admit X people. If additional training areas, lecturers etc. are also supplied then more people can be admitted to the course.

But simply changing how people are to be admitted into a course does not change the limit of people who can take the course. Make sense?

Seloth

I know that,but it makes the chances fairer for people.Rather then only accepting people with x amount a points it opens it to people who would be good but didnt have the points.

Seloth

Seloth wrote: »

I know that,but it makes the chances fairer for people.Rather then only accepting people with x amount a points it opens it to people who would be good but didnt have the points.

Ok, but I wasn't disputing any benefit of what they were proposing. I was making reference to your response to ryanairzer's comment below since you mentioned how it didn't make sense.

ryanairzer wrote: »

If the points were 300 there wouldn't be any more doctors, you do realise that?

straight_As

Am I the only one who doesn't loathe the current system?

Admitted, there are certain problems, like the limit on the number of places, but that being said, there are many positives.

We all agree that the Leaving Cert is the most stressful exam ever sat by students, correct? Does this pressure not mirror exactly that which will greet a doctor when his patient has a heart attack, or complications arrise during surgery? Surely, the ability for a student to handle the pressure of the LC is one which will stand him/her in good stead when his/her patient begins to flat-line.

Another perceived factor of the Leaving Cert is the strenuous and unforgiving points system. This however would appear to be a fallacy. Many will say that if you really want to take a position on the most sought after course in the 3rd level system, then by right you should be prepared to take on workload which reflects this coureses status and importance. The cliché "hard work reaps rewards" springs to mind. After all, with so many subjects available in the LC, surely a student could manufacture a timetable including 6 which they enjoy.

With this in mind however, the LC offers little respite when it comes on-the-day-nerves. Hopefully, by the time I sit it, I will have learned to channel these butterflies into a drive for success.

(P.S. I've just sat the JC. All As, Yay!!!)

PurpleFistMixer

straight_As wrote: »

(P.S. I've just sat the JC. All As, Yay!!!)

Who could have guessed?

whateva eva eva

I agree with this straight As guy/girl. I'm hoping to do medicine. The best way I can prove that I'm suitable to be a doctor (or in my case a neurologist) is clearly by mastering the leaving cert, which reflects my aptitude to learn and my commitment to hard work. But....

straight_As wrote: »

.

(P.S. I've just sat the JC. All As, Yay!!!)

Who the f.uck asked?

straight_As

straight_As wrote: »

We all agree that the Leaving Cert is the most stressful exam ever sat by students, correct?

Nope. For my college finals I knew that I could only take them once in order to obtain a Higher Degree, otherwise if I repeated I'd have obtained an Ordinary Degree. This wasn't the be all or end all, but it definitely didn't help in the exams.

I remember doing the Leaving Cert and saying "is that it?" I vividly remember doing College exams and saying "I'm so glad I'm never doing that again."

Fad

well it seems that unless one has experienced the leaving cert they shouldnt go on about how it gauges people for medicine

straight_As

Which would you rather have?
1. A doctor who studied hard, knew and more importantly, understood everything involving medicine inside-out? This doctor would also have proved him/herself capable of handling pressure in six exams which may determine their career.

or

2. A doctor who didn't bother studying, but based on their "aptitude" for a medical career were allowed through all the exams without really knowing the material?

In the situation of a hypothetical heart attack, I'll choose no.1 every time.

PurpleFistMixer

Which would you rather have;
a) A doctor who's academically brilliant, but has absolutely terrible bedside manner, can't make quick decisions under pressure, and is just in it because they know they'll get paid well,
or
b) A doctor who may not be able to recite shakespeare from memory, but is dedicated to the craft, genuinely is interested in being a doctor, and has the right kind of disposition for the job?

Also, to become a qualified doctor, you have to do more exams than the LC. So someone may not perform well in their LC (possibly as they're doing stuff they don't care about), but would metaphorically "pull up their socks" in college and excel. So it's not like the person who's treating you has no idea what they're doing or anything (one would hope, they could of course be somehow hired without the relevant qualifications, but I think in this scenario it's best to assume that the hospital/clinic isn't dodgy.)

You say doing well in the LC shows ability to cope with pressure, but I believe the kind of stress a doctor would be put under in life-or-death situations is quite different to the drawn out stressful period that is 6th year. In the LC you don't exactly have to make quick decisions that may kill someone or save someone within seconds.

(Also, if you only give people two options that you've quite clearly biased, it's easy to make them appear to agree with your side of the argument. Yes, I did just do it there too.)

blahdyblah

Okay right I really hate to break it to you all but I'm currently doing med in trinity so PLEASE believe me when I say this....if you're not capable of getting 570+ in the Leaving, 95% of the time you're not going to be up to the coursework. I'm not running down any one who can't get the points because, jesus christ I know for certain the vast VAST majority of people who REALLY want med and just don't have it to get the points required would make far better doctors than half the bloody oddballs doing medicine. I'll readily admit that the system is seriously flawed but there genuinely is no alternative. Nobody could possibly imagine what meds are expected to memorise, really just trust me on this one. People complain that the leaving is no more than a memory test and they're right, but the same is scarily true for medicine. If people with A1s in all three sciences at leaving cert are finding certain aspects of the course impossibe how are those with 480 going to cope? Granted they might well be equally intelligent but if they lacked the will to work SERIOUSLY hard for the leaving they're fairly unlikely to change when/if they get in.......

oh and to that straight A's person modesty is a lovely attribute, you should try it some time

If any of you med-hopefuls need advice feel free to PM me:cool::cool:

wireless101

^^

You just scared me :P

Good post though!

straight_As

blahdyblah wrote: »

Okay right I really hate to break it to you all but I'm currently doing med in trinity so PLEASE believe me when I say this....if you're not capable of getting 570+ in the Leaving, 95% of the time you're not going to be up to the coursework. I'm not running down any one who can't get the points because, jesus christ I know for certain the vast VAST majority of people who REALLY want med and just don't have it to get the points required would make far better doctors than half the bloody oddballs doing medicine. I'll readily admit that the system is seriously flawed but there genuinely is no alternative. Nobody could possibly imagine what meds are expected to memorise, really just trust me on this one. People complain that the leaving is no more than a memory test and they're right, but the same is scarily true for medicine. If people with A1s in all three sciences at leaving cert are finding certain aspects of the course impossibe how are those with 480 going to cope? Granted they might well be equally intelligent but if they lacked the will to work SERIOUSLY hard for the leaving they're fairly unlikely to change when/if they get in.......

oh and to that straight A's person modesty is a lovely attribute, you should try it some time

If any of you med-hopefuls need advice feel free to PM me:cool::cool:

Excellent post. In all honesty, you are probably the only one who should be commenting about this issue. Just exactly how is anyone, myself included, who doesn't study medicine at university supposed to understand exactly what attributes are required for a medical career?
To those of you who view me as arrogant, I apologise. Please, however, do not judge me by my alias.

me2gud4u

i agree totally with bladyblah's post and I too am currently studying medicine.You really need to be able to memorise stuff and be dedicated and have the ability to sit down for a good six hours or so and learn the coursework....if you can't do this for the leaving well there really isn't a hope in hell you'll survive medicine especially when students who gained 600 points (and even more) are struggling to just get passes in exams even though they are still working equally as hard!

JSK 252

Blahdayblah is correct. How in gods name could someone with 480 points do medicine if a person who got 600 points is struggling with it.

If I was to change the matriculation and entry requirement I would allow people who got A1s in 2 of chemistry/ biology / physics straight into medicine. They would get 1st preference and so on so forth.

Subjects which arent science related should be excluded.

whateva eva eva

I've two questions for blahdyblah. Whats your oppinion on students who repeat to get into medicine, i.e do they reach the required standard? And is the drop out rate high?

blahdyblah

God it's nice to see that some people agree with me!!:o Most of these opinions I usually have to keep to myself.... they're far from hurtful or anything but this kind of subject can be slightly controversial! I'm really not attempting to offend or annoy anyone, I'm just being honest:rolleyes:

Regarding giving those with A1s in two of the sciences first pref....I think that would probably help but not hugely. To be honest there're very, very few people on my course without A1s in 2 sciences and even those with A1s in all three and 600 points (myself included) are really struggling. Obviously it's a major advantage and I'd discourage anyone without A1s in at least chem and bio (physics isn't as important, although it does help to have it) from doing med especially in Trinity where there's no pre-med year... UCD is probably better in that respect I must admit (although trinners will always be winners :D:D ).

Ohhhhh that's a hard one, the question about repeat students I mean. It really depends.....for instance if someone who just wasn't bothered studying the first time and maybe only realised at the last minute that they wanted to do med, when it was basically just too late, repeats and puts in the work to get the points, then they'll generally be fine (or at least as fine as the rest of us). On the other hand I really do believe that unless you're INCREDIBLY unlucky and missed A1s by a mark or two on a few papers, you should just do something else or maybe repeat once - but only once!!! I know people who've repeated two and three times and fair play to them because they must really be dedicated BUT they have to study even harder than everyone else when they get in and they tend to be the ones doing supplementals (repeat exams in Trinity)......need I say more?

The dropout rate amongst Irish students is fairly low actually. A few would transfer into pharmacy or dentistry or something like that, not many though. Most of the people there either worked so hard to get in because it's the only thing they've ever wanted to do or are far too proud and pompous to give up the fact that they can say they do medicine in Trinity (or Ucd, RCSI, galway, cork - all the same really.... although the real prestige-chasers head for Trinity if I tell the truth )

Really though, if you care enough at this stage to be on a forum, discussing the issue, you obviously have a genuine interest - and I'm speaking generally rather than to an individual here - and would be more likely than most to have what it takes I'm not writing this to discourage, but instead to warn you all that there are far easier career choices and if your'e looking to rub your 600 in the faces of others, do something where not everyone else got 600 too!! You don''t have either to be from a fancy Dublin school (I'm not), or get grinds all the time (no one I know in med needed them...scary really), you just need a big brain and a lot of dedication!!

sd123

I'm in first yr med in tcd aswel, I agree with you on some points but I don't think the workload is huge, although the biochem is pretty hard to understand.

blahdyblah wrote: »

Obviously it's a major advantage and I'd discourage anyone without A1s in at least chem and bio (physics isn't as important, although it does help to have it) from doing med especially in Trinity where there's no pre-med year.

What if you were 3 marks short of an A1 in chem and lost out on technicality? But then again, its a complete different ballgame when you're doing extremely difficult biochem listening to Prof. Mok!!! (private joke:D)

(or at least as fine as the rest of us).

So true, everyone i asked is completely lost. but imo, anatomy and physiology are fine, biochem is the killer.

The dropout rate amongst Irish students is fairly low actually. A few would transfer into pharmacy or dentistry or something like that, not many though.

This is probably true but believe it or not, someone has already dropped out of our class.

although the real prestige-chasers head for Trinity if I tell the truth )

Yea, what is it with that, it really annoys me because i only scraped in on the third round after missing out on the random number. The problem being that i didn't study a third language, so UCD, UCC, RCSI and NUIG were all out of the running for me, even though i had enough points for those. Everyone I've met so far in TCD med have a third language while some sat spanish, german, italian and french for points, this is so annoying. IF YOU'RE READING THIS AND YOU WANT TO MEDICINE AND YOU HAVE A THIRD LANGUAGE JUST PUT UCD OR OTHER UNIVERSITY FIRST. Thanks.:)

Now, for my own two cents. Its not that hard, its just about learning things off. Before I started med, i knew it wouldn't be easy but i didn't think i'd be learning lists of 15 parts to one bone off at this stage in the year when i want to go to societies. Oh yea, there are (i think) 206 bones in the human body, you work out the math! However, anatomy is very interesting, and lets face it, who cant relate to anatomy!

Biochem is difficult to understand some concepts. The lecturers go very quickly and little (if any) time is spared for students' questions.

Physiology reminds me of LC biology the most, although not TOO difficult, we go into alot of detail.

Finally, if you're planning on doing med, be prepared to no longer be the best, or the most studious. Its amazing how well some people want to do, even at this early stage. Eg, in anatomy class, the lecturer recommended "grays anatomy for students" for anyone who was looking to get a first class honours (which VERY FEW get). One girl i know then went out and spent over E90 on the proper Grays anatomy for doctors. WEIRD.
The be-all and end-all of it is that it isn't THAT hard, it is however an awful lot of learning off.:o

wireless101

sd123 wrote: »

I'm in first yr med in tcd aswel, I agree with you on some points but I don't think the workload is huge, although the biochem is pretty hard to understand.



What if you were 3 marks short of an A1 in chem and lost out on technicality? But then again, its a complete different ballgame when you're doing extremely difficult biochem listening to Prof. Mok!!! (private joke:D)


So true, everyone i asked is completely lost. but imo, anatomy and physiology are fine, biochem is the killer.


This is probably true but believe it or not, someone has already dropped out of our class.


Yea, what is it with that, it really annoys me because i only scraped in on the third round after missing out on the random number. The problem being that i didn't study a third language, so UCD, UCC, RCSI and NUIG were all out of the running for me, even though i had enough points for those. Everyone I've met so far in TCD med have a third language while some sat spanish, german, italian and french for points, this is so annoying. IF YOU'RE READING THIS AND YOU WANT TO MEDICINE AND YOU HAVE A THIRD LANGUAGE JUST PUT UCD OR OTHER UNIVERSITY FIRST. Thanks.:)

Now, for my own two cents. Its not that hard, its just about learning things off. Before I started med, i knew it wouldn't be easy but i didn't think i'd be learning lists of 15 parts to one bone off at this stage in the year when i want to go to societies. Oh yea, there are (i think) 206 bones in the human body, you work out the math! However, anatomy is very interesting, and lets face it, who cant relate to anatomy!

Biochem is difficult to understand some concepts. The lecturers go very quickly and little (if any) time is spared for students' questions.

Physiology reminds me of LC biology the most, although not TOO difficult, we go into alot of detail.

Finally, if you're planning on doing med, be prepared to no longer be the best, or the most studious. Its amazing how well some people want to do, even at this early stage. Eg, in anatomy class, the lecturer recommended "grays anatomy for students" for anyone who was looking to get a first class honours (which VERY FEW get). One girl i know then went out and spent over E90 on the proper Grays anatomy for doctors. WEIRD.
The be-all and end-all of it is that it isn't THAT hard, it is however an awful lot of learning off.:o

@ blahdyblah and sd123:
Yes, i'd imagine it's difficult, but won't it all be worth it when you graduate and are earning a ridiculous amount of money. how much is it doctors can expect to earn their 1st year working?

Also, I have no special interest in medicine, but am going for it because I want money more than anything else and I believe that doctors get paid very well. Do you require a genuine interest in healing the sick to become a doctor? Are either of you doing it just for the money (as I intend to do)?

Mini_Moose

Doctors get well paid because of the huge workload they have. If you are interested in money and not the career I would strongly advise doing something else. You won't have much time to spend the money for a good few years!

ZorbaTehZ

Well it sounds like you guys are having barrels of fun anyways lol. It seems all the wasters must have gone to NUIG then joke
Seriously though, there's zero competitiveness in our class, albeit it is Pre-med.