Insulation costs

bogman

Cork Builders Providers today
8*4*100mm Kingspan 3 pack double vapor barrier, 151€ or 140€ if I buy 9 bales
Rockwool flexi 1200mm*450mm 100mm 28€ per pack (coverage 2.22m2)
24 pack 4*2*1" Aeroboard 34€/bale
Nearly collapsed when I saw the first price, the prices of rigid polyurethane sheeting seems absurd, any comments or are these prices typical, any alternatives to Kingspan
If there are links to prices or other alternatives id appreciate your comments

muffler

bogman wrote: »

Cork Builders Providers today
8*4*100mm Kingspan 3 pack double vapor barrier, 151€ or 140€ if I buy 9 bales
Rockwool flexi 1200mm*450mm 100mm 28€ per pack (coverage 2.22m2)
24 pack 4*2*1" Aeroboard 34€/bale
Nearly collapsed when I saw the first price, the prices of rigid polyurethane sheeting seems absurd, any comments or are these prices typical, any alternatives to Kingspan
If there are links to prices or other alternatives id appreciate your comments

Do you want to get the old calculator out and state the cost per square metre of each product

metalscrubber

The Kingspan - €15.65 per Sq metre
The Rockwool - €12.61 per Sq metre
The Aerobord - €1.91 per Sq metre

Metal

Mellor

This is a little misleading, the aeroboard is a fraction of the cost of the other two, but its also much thinner, 25mm verses 100mm. The 24 pack of aerobord is half the amount of the KS.
Also the fact that kingspan has a much higher thermal resistance further reduces the gap. Between the two. When comparing insulation it makes sense to compare not cost for same size but cost for same preformance.

The Kingspan - €15.65 per Sq metre
The Rockwool - €21 per Sq metre
The Aerobord - €11 per Sq metre

The above prices are rough reflections on performance, rockwool needs to be about 70% thicker and aeroboard about 40% to achieve the same level.
How many sheets per pack is in the rockwool, as 1200mm x 450mm doesn't go evenly into 2.22m2?

ibh

If you are looking for alternatives to using Kingspan but still want to use polyurethane sheeting then Quinn Therm and Xtratherm are alternatives. Although i did try to switch and found the other 2 companies to be less efficient and helpful than Kingspan. It was in a work capacity i dealt with them, needed to contact them a couple of times to get things right and to be clear in what was needed. Quinn never actually got back to me at all so crossed them off completely. If you know what u want then it should be very easy to just compare the prices from the 3 companies.

muffler

An interesting topic and valuable comments for people looking to buy insulation.

Thanks for the info too Mellor

ardara1

bogman wrote: »

Cork Builders Providers today
8*4*100mm Kingspan 3 pack double vapor barrier, 151€ or 140€ if I buy 9 bales
Rockwool flexi 1200mm*450mm 100mm 28€ per pack (coverage 2.22m2)
24 pack 4*2*1" Aeroboard 34€/bale
Nearly collapsed when I saw the first price, the prices of rigid polyurethane sheeting seems absurd, any comments or are these prices typical, any alternatives to Kingspan
If there are links to prices or other alternatives id appreciate your comments

The best way to compare the performance is by the RESISTANCE or R value - the higher the better

KS 0.100mm / 0.023 = 4.35
RW 0.100mm / 0.038? = 2.63
AB 0.025mm / 0.038 = 2.63

Rmeber 100mm of any of them won't meet the 0.20 U-value required under current regs - with the KS you'll need another 40mm UNDER lining the rafters (Probably 70mm if you use fibre)

davidoco

Xtratherm 100mm Rafterloc ordered through builders providers but delivered direct by Xtrathern within the week.

Quoted around €17 per sqm but in the end paid closer to €14 as happened to get in touch with xtratherm rep who deals with the builders providers and he was happy to get some sales of rafterloc - that may have been his usual line but I suspect that since it isn't kept in stock in this large builders providers it may not be selling very well.

IMO it's a very good product and fits perfectly (usually) but takes as much sweat putting in in and since I have a cut roof the rafter spacings were all over the place. They are easy to get into the attic and there wasn't much waste.


Sep 2007

bogman

Thanks for all your help and input, very much appreciated

Builderfromhell

One point worthy of note is that while Kingspan, Xtratherm and Quinnlite are great products they are not always fitted snugly beteween rafters or studs in timber frame and therefore the structure is far from airtight. Rockwool, while not having the same U value is more likely to be fitted snugly in roofs but, I have found while renovating properties, often sags in Timber frame walls.
Aerobord, I am told, loses it's insulation value over time and outgasses toxins from day one.
The whole question of what is the best insulation intriques me and is one I continue to research.
There is a new ecoquilt in B&Q which is made from recycled plastic bottles and does not have same irritants as Rockwool or Fibreglass.

ardara1

Builderfromhell wrote: »

One point worthy of note is that while Kingspan, Xtratherm and Quinnlite are great products they are not always fitted snugly beteween rafters or studs in timber frame and therefore the structure is far from airtight. Rockwool, while not having the same U value is more likely to be fitted snugly in roofs but, I have found while renovating properties, often sags in Timber frame walls.
Aerobord, I am told, loses it's insulation value over time and outgasses toxins from day one.
The whole question of what is the best insulation intriques me and is one I continue to research.
There is a new ecoquilt in B&Q which is made from recycled plastic bottles and does not have same irritants as Rockwool or Fibreglass.

Great product frm a recycled point of few - but the performance isn't great - you'd need around 200mm between rafter and still need 50mm Kingspan to the under side to meet the regs.
The point about the eco-friendliness of an insulation material is what it does after instalation - how much energy does it save in a building - and no mater what type you buy - if it's not installed properly - it won't work foam/fibre/natural

Mellor

Good point Ardara, the embodied energy is only a factor once performance is optimal. Its great that they have a use for waste plastic, but the product is only any good as a retrofit in an attic where there is little or no access.

Lol, as I type, the ad for the very same product is on the telly

Viking House

The recommendation from Scandinavia is;
Cellulose or Softboard for the roof.
Rockwool for the walls and
Polystyrene for the foundations.

Polysterene or Polyeurethene is rarely used for roofs in the Cold European or Scandinavian countries but then again what do they know about insulation there?
Roofs need to be allowed to breathe and the only way water laden air can escape through a non breathable roof is through the roof wood which leads to moisture overload and rot.

The Vapour Control layer that is normally fitted inside the insulation rarely works 100% so any moisture that does get in should be able to escape through a breathable construction.

Viking House

Builderfromhell wrote: »

One point worthy of note is that while Kingspan, Xtratherm and Quinnlite are great products they are not always fitted snugly beteween rafters or studs in timber frame and therefore the structure is far from airtight.
Aerobord, I am told, loses it's insulation value over time and outgasses toxins from day one.

Kingspan, Xtratherm and Quinnlite are the worst for offgassing mostly Pentane gas, Aerobord has very little gas left after production.

Builderfromhell

Viking,
You seem to know a bit about insulation. perhaps you could advise on following;
1. How much Cellulose to comply with current regs.
2. 150mm Rockwool for walls in Timber frame building may comply with regs. but I'd imagine if I'm getting cellulose in roof would make sense to spray cellulose in walls too. I presume it meets regs.
3. I have used 'Actis Tri-iso Super 10' on inside of external walls and across ceilings thereby insulationg and completly sealing internal structure. This was in addition to wall and roof/ceiling insulation. I then installed a Heat recovery unit to ensure adeqaute warm fresh air to all house. This eliminates draughts and makes house pleasant to live in.
The reason I used Rockwool on ceiling in attic (400mm) and Kingspan in walls as well as Tri-iso was that I wasn't 100% sure Tri-iso would be adequate for insulation alone. I know it is used in Nordic and Alpine countries as well as California (to keep heat out) but soem Engineer's here have told me they would not sign off on a building with Tri-iso only insulation. Any views, opinions appreciated.

Sparky78

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/multi-foil-insulation_july2005.pdf

The BRE did this report and it proves that the R value of the muti foil insulation is only one third of the value state by the manufacturers.

ircoha

Sparky78 wrote: »

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/multi-foil-insulation_july2005.pdf

The BRE did this report and it proves that the R value of the muti foil insulation is only one third of the value state by the manufacturers.

Page 5 of this report shows that when the product is used in a ventilated airspace the performance is almost 5 times less than claimed. In the case of an unventilated airspace the air does better:eek:

This report highlights the need for independent verification of all products: the same sort of outlandish claims are now being made in the renewable energy field.

Builderfromhell

Read report, very interesting. It's no wonder people including Builders, Architects and Engineers have difficulty determining how best to insulate a dwelling while maintaining a healthy environment.
There is much mis-information out htere. Thank God for the Building research establishment.
Vikings point about Polysyrene not being a good insulant above ground is interesting. Structurally insulated panels (SIPs) are, I think, Polystyrene sandwiched between two sheets of OSB.

Sparky78

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Read report, very interesting. It's no wonder people including Builders, Architects and Engineers have difficulty determining how best to insulate a dwelling while maintaining a healthy environment.
There is much mis-information out htere. Thank God for the Building research establishment.
Vikings point about Polysyrene not being a good insulant above ground is interesting. Structurally insulated panels (SIPs) are, I think, Polystyrene sandwiched between two sheets of OSB.

I have a feeling that the BRE have a different opinion to Vikings.

ircoha

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Read report, very interesting. It's no wonder people including Builders, Architects and Engineers have difficulty determining how best to insulate a dwelling while maintaining a healthy environment.
There is much mis-information out htere. Thank God for the Building research establishment.
Vikings point about Polysyrene not being a good insulant above ground is interesting. Structurally insulated panels (SIPs) are, I think, Polystyrene sandwiched between two sheets of OSB.

I dont see where VH said that.

pullandbang

Builderfromhell wrote: »

There is a new ecoquilt in B&Q which is made from recycled plastic bottles and does not have same irritants as Rockwool or Fibreglass.

I know this thread is dead, but I've only just come across it.
EcoQuilt is available here - http://www.smartrinsulations.com/ecoquilt.htm
The one in B&Q is a different brand.

Jill

builderfromhell - did you get any answers to the question about the amount of cellulose? Have you used this ?

1922

time to resurect this subject!!

which provies best insulation...i understand kingspan to be the most popular and all i hear people talk about....

what price for a 3300 sq ft house?, story and half

thunderRoad

Hi 1922,

there seems to be alot of differing opinions on ways to insulate your house out there, i'm going with kingspan/similar cos u seem to get the best values per thickness(if that's the right term)

got prices a few weeks ago, and today for insulation i'll pm you the prices i got

murphyep

Hi Thunderroad,
Any chance you can send me the prices also please?

Regards,
Eddie

Wobs

Hi Thunderoad,

I would appreciate it if you could pm those prices also.

Thanks

Wobs

RedRag

Hi Thunderoad,

I would also be grateful if you could pm me with those prices aswell.

Cheers

RedRag

Tester46

thunderRoad wrote: »

got prices a few weeks ago, and today for insulation i'll pm you the prices i got

hi thunderroad,

Could you pm the prices to me too please? Thanks.

fordes

Hi Thunderroad,
Any chance you can send me the prices also please? Trying to figure out what the best way to insulate the attic for a new build bungalow?

Thanks

BoozyBabe

bit embarrassed to be adding my name to the ever growing list, but if you didn't mind ThunderRoad, I'd also appreciate them.
Only if it's not too much bother.
Thanks,
BB

bornacoola

Thunderroad, if you don't mind, can you add me to the list!

metalscrubber

And me please - if you don't mind.

Cheers,

Metal

thunderRoad

hi guys,
Pm sent, let me know if i missed anyone, cut&paste got a bit confusing for a minute there:D

PJMCKE

Thunderroad, if you don't mind, can you add me to the list

lialwarrior

Thunderroad, if you don't mind, can you add me to the list too?

Cheers,
LialWarrior

GoneShootin

thunderRoad wrote: »

hi guys,
Pm sent, let me know if i missed anyone, cut&paste got a bit confusing for a minute there:D

He now regrets ever offering prices

Gulliver

Sorry to jump on the bandwagon, but can you add me to the list too? Thanks!

Mr. Magic

ThunderRoad, can you add me to that list as well.
Thanks.

YourAverageJoe

would like the prices too please?
Thanks

thunderRoad

GoneShootin wrote: »

He now regrets ever offering prices

think i've come up with a new business, can't figure out how i'll make money of it yet though:D

again, if i've forgotten anyone...

broro22

If you wouldnt mind me to please
Cheers

muffler

Laziness is an awful thing

YourAverageJoe

thanks

murph08

Thunderroad, if you don't mind, can you add me to the list
Cheers:)

Independent

Thunderroad i would like a copy too if you don't mind thanks.

Quazzie

Would it not be better for the sake of this thread is anyone who wanted the information pm'd Thunderroad rather than taking the thread so far off topic asking for it?

muffler

Thats a fair point Quazzie and Im amazed at 2 things - the inability of people to get their own prices and the mistaken belief that the same price is going to apply to them. Ah well whatever floats their boat

thunderRoad

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Would it not be better for the sake of this thread is anyone who wanted the information pm'd Thunderroad rather than taking the thread so far off topic asking for it?

i agree, if anyone wants info just pm me,

thunderRoad

Hi guys,

found this site thought it might be handy as a guideline for prices for different types of insulation, i cleared it with muffler so it's ok to post
http://www.just-insulation.com/prices.html

manufan16

thunderRoad wrote: »

Hi guys,

found this site thought it might be handy as a guideline for prices for different types of insulation, i cleared it with muffler so it's ok to post
http://www.just-insulation.com/prices.html

Thats a good site and they deliver to Ireland