Party Poker Ipc Galway 2008 - Details

LuckyLloyd · 19-10-2007 8:27am

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I agree but poker is also about gambling, we dont gamble totally because we feel like it we gamble out of neccessity. everytime you shove from the button into the blind you are partially gambling ok and educated gamble but still. I get the impression from you Lloyd that gambling is just not in your nature maybe im wrong you seem to look down on "gamblers"

Poker is gambling. But what is supposed to make poker different from other forms of gambling (and that is the entire reason for this forums existence) is that with a lot of hard work - one can have the abillity to apply an understanding of the game in the right spots so that they expect to win money - unlike a roulette player who can never recieve a positive return. I therefore have little time for things that you think are standard in poker like straddling or "defending the straddle" because they are losing plays.

Does anyone have time for out and out degen gamblers?

But the above statement has little in it relevant to tournament structures. Just because you want to gamble and lack patience to grind it out over an elongated structure doesn't mean that we should have a reduced structure to suit ya.

RichieLawlor wrote: »

It works like this, The more chips you start with the longer you can survive in the tournament, yes, which means in the latter stages as the blinds rise there will be more players meaning the average stack in relation to the blinds will be less meaning slightly less play. You can say you make up for this with the more chips in play but it doesnt really work like this. You have more and more players hanging on for dear life meaning the big stack are not so big and there are loads of shortys hanging about

There will be loads of shorties lasting as long as they can at the IPC - and guys clinging on for dear life!! Welcome to a tournament. But this type of talk is quite irrelevant. The only thing that matters is which structure will deliver more BBs in the average stack at the final table. The GJP festivals delivered 20+. I don't think the IPC was much deeper than that last January tbh.

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Poker is gambling, not totally gambling as i agree its more skill than gambling but playing short stack poker is a skill of nlh which requires a williness to gamble and i get the impression you just cant handle, ok none of us like playin ninja poker but its a part of the game, deal with it. You speak of comfort zones Lloyd well your comfort zone seem to be level 1 with gazillions of chips which leaves me wonderin, Has your game changed that much since GJP 1??

Sigh. You've never played at the same table as me before I believe so I'll ignore that. I think you would be surprised at how I play a stack of 15BBs or less.

And thank you for confirming what I thought your argument boiled down to. Yes, there is some skill involved in playing a shortstack. But it is the easiest aspect of NLHE to learn and master. Through a bit of study you can learn when it is profitable to push and when it isn't. And, while you can have an edge in shortstack situations over the clueless, typically in tournaments at this level the majority of the filed will play a shortstack well so the longer the tournament has and average stack below 30BBs the more it comes down to who catches more cards and runs better. Hence the term lol donkaments.

The longer a structure allows for turns and rivers to be a factor; for people having the room to 3 bet and fold; or not commit themselves by a simple continuation bet - the more that structure will reward a good player and is less about running well.

And, as such, that is simply why I believe the extended structures are best. Becuse their isn't a whole lot of skill to shoving preflop and taking coinflips.

kakak1 · 19-10-2007 8:46am

RichieLawlor wrote: »

none of us like playin ninja poker

Not your style Richie

Actually I'd say foreplay in your book would be "brace yourself Breda" & away you go

sloane · 19-10-2007 9:15am

Hi Guys

Stephen here. I have worked the IPC'06 and IPC'07. The tournament structure has run for 3 days for both. Both tournaments finished up Sunday evening about 8 or 9pm. The hours played over the first two days are long for players and staff. This was playing a 10k structure with hour long blinds.
This structure has worked extremely well for both fields which were 300 odd.

When talking about larger starting stacks, and longer blinds you need to change the structure (miss levels) of the event to ensure you get the tournament finished in the 3 days.

With PartyPoker.com coming on board there is sure to be an increase in numbers, this will compensate for the bigger buyin and move to the west! (Which is probably a good thing). The RadissonSAS Galway is a lovely venue, Massive room, great facilities, 2 minutes from Eyre Square and the craic is galway is excellent.

There are a number of excellent people working on this behind the scenes, and I have good reason to believe that this will be a huge success. I myself, had to give it miss due to other reasons which meant I would not have had the time to commit to it.

I wish the PartyPoker.com and PokerEvents every success with the venture and I'm sure it will be pulled off to the very high standards expected of the IPC.

Stephen

carfax · 19-10-2007 11:30am

Is Donal Mac Aonghusa taking a trip home to direct this tournament?

nicnicnic · 19-10-2007 11:38am

carfax wrote: »

Is Donal Mac Aonghusa taking a trip home to direct this tournament?

I herd JP and Kelly are going to be joint directors.

Scummyscousers · 19-10-2007 11:40am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Poker is gambling. But what is supposed to make poker different from other forms of gambling (and that is the entire reason for this forums existence) is that with a lot of hard work - one can have the abillity to apply an understanding of the game in the right spots so that they expect to win money - unlike a roulette player who can never recieve a positive return. I therefore have little time for things that you think are standard in poker like straddling or "defending the straddle" because they are losing plays.

Does anyone have time for out and out degen gamblers?

But the above statement has little in it relevant to tournament structures. Just because you want to gamble and lack patience to grind it out over an elongated structure doesn't mean that we should have a reduced structure to suit ya.

There will be loads of shorties lasting as long as they can at the IPC - and guys clinging on for dear life!! Welcome to a tournament. But this type of talk is quite irrelevant. The only thing that matters is which structure will deliver more BBs in the average stack at the final table. The GJP festivals delivered 20+. I don't think the IPC was much deeper than that last January tbh.

Sigh. You've never played at the same table as me before I believe so I'll ignore that. I think you would be surprised at how I play a stack of 15BBs or less.

And thank you for confirming what I thought your argument boiled down to. Yes, there is some skill involved in playing a shortstack. But it is the easiest aspect of NLHE to learn and master. Through a bit of study you can learn when it is profitable to push and when it isn't. And, while you can have an edge in shortstack situations over the clueless, typically in tournaments at this level the majority of the filed will play a shortstack well so the longer the tournament has and average stack below 30BBs the more it comes down to who catches more cards and runs better. Hence the term lol donkaments.

The longer a structure allows for turns and rivers to be a factor; for people having the room to 3 bet and fold; or not commit themselves by a simple continuation bet - the more that structure will reward a good player and is less about running well.

And, as such, that is simply why I believe the extended structures are best. Becuse their isn't a whole lot of skill to shoving preflop and taking coinflips.

:eek: Jaysus, how can a man in his sick bed type so much. Tell me what your medication is.

I'd agree to a point that longer structures enable the better players to use their superior skills, but as you frequently point out, you are not a great player (your words) if this is the case, wouldnt longer structures just enable the better players to outplay you.

get well soon!

BIG-SLICK-POKER · 19-10-2007 3:36pm

nicnicnic wrote: »

I herd JP and Kelly are going to be joint directors.

Lol .. Playin this one so def wont be

ocallagh · 19-10-2007 4:56pm

IMO, a 15k stack with 1hr levels and every single blind level included (and repeated with antes) is perfect.

I don't agree with bops or richie. Replace the 10k stack with a 50k stack and it doesn't change anything except give you some bonus deep stack play for the first 2 or 3 levels. From Level 4 onwards you have the same structure as the 10k or 15k stack tournament. It might add on a few hrs but certainly not days.

Also, some people reckon a 50k stack leads to a crapshoot. I don't agree, but I see some tournament organisers give you a 50k stack, give you the bonus deep stack levels at the start, but cut out some crucial levels later on in the tournament. Each time they skip a level later on you may as well have started with half the chips. If levels late on are skipped the tournament will turn into a crapshoot.

LuckyLloyd · 19-10-2007 5:59pm

Scummyscousers wrote: »

:eek: Jaysus, how can a man in his sick bed type so much. Tell me what your medication is.

I'd agree to a point that longer structures enable the better players to use their superior skills, but as you frequently point out, you are not a great player (your words) if this is the case, wouldnt longer structures just enable the better players to outplay you.

get well soon!

I forced myself into work the past two days. Back in bed now.

Yes, an extended structure means more time where I am outside a scenario of 30BBs or less where I function best. But I like a challenge; and I like value for my money - so I am in favour of ramping it up!!

Thanks!!

LuckyLloyd · 19-10-2007 6:02pm

ocallagh wrote: »

IMO, a 15k stack with 1hr levels and every single blind level included (and repeated with antes) is perfect.

I don't agree with bops or richie. Replace the 10k stack with a 50k stack and it doesn't change anything except give you some bonus deep stack play for the first 2 or 3 levels. From Level 4 onwards you have the same structure as the 10k or 15k stack tournament. It might add on a few hrs but certainly not days.

Also, some people reckon a 50k stack leads to a crapshoot. I don't agree, but I see some tournament organisers give you a 50k stack, give you the bonus deep stack levels at the start, but cut out some crucial levels later on in the tournament. Each time they skip a level later on you may as well have started with half the chips. If levels late on are skipped the tournament will turn into a crapshoot.

Agree 100%. And that is what is great about the extended structures. We are getting the 75 / 150; 500 / 1000; 600 / 1200; 1200 / 2400; 2500 / 5000 levels that are so important - and are sometimes skipped.

JP Poker · 19-10-2007 6:12pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Agree 100%. And that is what is great about the extended structures. We are getting the 75 / 150; 500 / 1000; 600 / 1200; 1200 / 2400; 2500 / 5000 levels that are so important - and are sometimes skipped.

What about 125/250; 250/500:D

LuckyLloyd · 19-10-2007 6:14pm

JP Poker wrote: »

What about 125/250; 250/500:D

carfax · 19-10-2007 7:54pm

nicnicnic wrote: »

I herd JP and Kelly are going to be joint directors.

lol.

Anyone know who the tournament director is??? I would like to know because I won't try to luckbox my way to a ticket (into this crapshoot

) if its not someone of Donal's standards (or close to it of course). Where is Manus when you need him???

Goodluck2me · 19-10-2007 7:59pm

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I agree but poker is also about gambling, we dont gamble totally because we feel like it we gamble out of neccessity. everytime you shove from the button into the blind you are partially gambling ok and educated gamble but still. I get the impression from you Lloyd that gambling is just not in your nature maybe im wrong you seem to look down on "gamblers"

this part i agree with well put

It works like this, The more chips you start with the longer you can survive in the tournament, yes, which means in the latter stages as the blinds rise there will be more players meaning the average stack in relation to the blinds will be less meaning slightly less play. You can say you make up for this with the more chips in play but it doesnt really work like this. You have more and more players hanging on for dear life meaning the big stack are not so big and there are loads of shortys hanging about

Poker is gambling, not totally gambling as i agree its more skill than gambling but playing short stack poker is a skill of nlh which requires a williness to gamble and i get the impression you just cant handle, ok none of us like playin ninja poker but its a part of the game, deal with it. You speak of comfort zones Lloyd well your comfort zone seem to be level 1 with gazillions of chips which leaves me wonderin, Has your game changed that much since GJP 1??

I just cant understand why this structure is good enough for the EPT but gets ripped apart on here.

I must say that this post strikes me as pure rubbish. So ok you say poker is gambling, I dont disagree per se, but there is a skill int he gamble.
Having a 50K stack in stead of a 10k stack menas that players can afford to take hits and still be under no pressure. You can choose the hands you play and who against. In many tournaments around the country this is simply not the case.
However, when you run deeper into the tournament you have a chance to play all the same types of strategies as you do in a 10k game except crucially, LATER ON, therefore giving you more of a chance to play differnet varieties and styles. It does take you out of your comfort zone, it is something different and that is why it should be supported. Im not saying that 50K is the worlds greatest structure only time will tell how well it works, but i certainly so advocate the use of it to see HOW the game changes and to view DIFFERENT aspects of the game not normally experienced. that is why i feel it is value for money.

What makes it a better game, or should make it a better game, is the variety of the game involved as ive mentioned, you get to play stacks that you are unfamilar with, get you play turns and rivers with 4,5,6x the pot left and lots of room to bluff, semi-bluff float etc etc, and this is why we love the game. If its directed well, which i have no reason to doubt with Mike and Tom, then it shouldnt turn into a crapshoot either and this arguement is ridiculous tbh, as how could starting with less chips be less liekly to get into a crap shoot. the same period happens in 10K tourneys too when people cling on, that arguement is a non-runner imo.

nicnicnic · 19-10-2007 8:03pm

carfax wrote: »

lol.

Anyone know who the tournament director is??? I would like to know because I won't try to luckbox my way to a ticket (into this crapshoot ) if its not someone of Donal's standards (or close to it of course). Where is Manus when you need him???

I purpose Mike Foley; failing that maybe the guy with the porkpie hat from only fools and horses, he did a great job with madmarty in the play your cards right thing last year in the city west

Goodluck2me · 19-10-2007 8:15pm

carfax wrote: »

lol.

Anyone know who the tournament director is??? I would like to know because I won't try to luckbox my way to a ticket (into this crapshoot ) if its not someone of Donal's standards (or close to it of course). Where is Manus when you need him???

try posting this on the poker events forum?unless your barred?!:D lol

cooker3 · 19-10-2007 9:25pm

Stephen, Why don't you give Fintan a ring and so will he use you as a TD...

carfax · 19-10-2007 10:03pm

goodluck2me wrote: »

try posting this on the poker events forum?unless your barred?!:D lol

cooker3 wrote: »

Stephen, Why don't you give Fintan a ring and so will he use you as a TD...

Two funnymen.....I just visited this site - www.pokerevents.ie - for the first time in about a year.....lol, just lol. I think the tournament director for the IPC 2008 is the artistic looking one. I decided against opening up the forum.

Anyway I was never one to hold a grudge (big lie) but whatever about my opinions of the owner of the company the IPC is a big addition to the tournament calendar here in little old Eire (dead serious there).....And some friends of mine still work with PE - Peter "the Kiwi crocodile hunter extrondinaire" Holden is in charge of the whole operation now.

Back on topic - This tournament is only two and a bit months away, does anyone know who the tournament director is or is it just a big mystery?

carfax · 19-10-2007 10:06pm

nicnicnic wrote: »

I purpose Mike Foley; failing that maybe the guy with the porkpie hat from only fools and horses, he did a great job with madmarty in the play your cards right thing last year in the city west

lol, Masters was telling me that CPT have really cleaned up their acts. They're still getting the biggest crowds anyway and your man Mike Foley is dead sound (funny counterfeit to his name too

).

carfax · 19-10-2007 10:08pm

cooker3 wrote: »

Stephen, Why don't you give Fintan a ring and so will he use you as a TD...

Are you the TD? Is that why they are keeping it quiet?

Goodluck2me · 19-10-2007 10:31pm

carfax wrote: »

Are you the TD? Is that why they are keeping it quiet?

he would want to get another shirt if he is last time he looked like the peanut jelly man!

Robert in a Yellow IPO shirt

carfax · 19-10-2007 10:39pm

goodluck2me wrote: »

he would want to get another shirt if he is last time he looked like the peanut jelly man!

Robert in a Yellow IPO shirt

nearly fell off my chair

cooker3 · 20-10-2007 2:11am

That was a damn good shirt I wore at the IPO.
Nothing wrong with a bit of style
Still, lol @ that link

Macau Cork · 20-10-2007 3:43am

I be playing in this one and hopefully will make the money this time.
We will also be runnnning a satellite for this event at Macau Sporting Club on Saturday December 22nd.

sloane · 20-10-2007 3:05pm

carfax wrote: »

Two funnymen.....I just visited this site - www.pokerevents.ie - for the first time in about a year.....lol, just lol. I think the tournament director for the IPC 2008 is the artistic looking one. I decided against opening up the forum.

Anyway I was never one to hold a grudge (big lie) but whatever about my opinions of the owner of the company the IPC is a big addition to the tournament calendar here in little old Eire (dead serious there).....And some friends of mine still work with PE - Peter "the Kiwi crocodile hunter extrondinaire" Holden is in charge of the whole operation now.

Back on topic - This tournament is only two and a bit months away, does anyone know who the tournament director is or is it just a big mystery?

Steve,

Peter is from Australia and NOT New Zealand!

It's not my place to comment on any of the info I have acquired within PokerEvents. But only the best TD's and floor staff will run the IPC.

Stephen

carfax · 20-10-2007 4:53pm

sloane wrote: »

Steve,

Peter is from Australia and NOT New Zealand!

It's not my place to comment on any of the info I have acquired within PokerEvents. But only the best TD's and floor staff will run the IPC.

Stephen

Sloane ya madzer it was a joke. Have you never been asked when travelling overseas if you were English, well the Ozzies love being called Kiwi's about as much as that. And by the way there are no crocs in New Zealand either.

Agree completely with the above statement. Peter is one of the best, which is a big achievement for a Kiwi.... My real question if any of the current pokerevents team are reading is;

Is Fintan Gavin the senior Tournament Director for this event? If not, who is? I am genuinely interested in playing in this event so I would like to know.

Culchie · 20-10-2007 6:24pm

I'm surprised that amidst all the 'thrust' of the argument of average stacks at final tables, and what constitutes a 'crapshoot' and what doesn't, that the posters have mentioned the key variable in the whole debate .... how many entrants there are !

If there's a 10k starting stack, and 100 players, then obviously if there are 200 runners, the average stack at the final table is going to be twice as big....allowing for more 'play'.

There's a formula called the 'Patience Factor' which basically tells you if you folded every hand, how long it would take you to be chipped out, you then square that number to give you a patience factor.
e.g WSOP Main Event = 8.67 hours and has a patience factor of 75.24, whereas the 1K senior event has a patience factor 3.19 hours and therefore a factor of 10.20

The higher the factor, the longer the structure. The higher the factor, the higher the skill level required to win.

The factor number should determine the speed you should be trying to achieve to accumulate chips. i.e You don't play tournament poker the same way for all tournaments, you must adapt to the 'speed' of the tournament.

Patience Factor Skill Level Comments
1.49 or less 0 Crapshoot, anyone can win
1.50-2.99 1 Still very fast, pray for good cards
3.00-4.49 2 Very fast, good speed play required
4.50-5.99 3 Excellent for good speed players
6.00-7.49 4 Medium Fast, requires more skill
7.50-9.99 5 Slower, requires much more skill
10.00+ 6 Slow, highly skilled players only

Just as a matter of interest, the online tournament with the highest patience factor is Ultimate Bets $109 tournament with $2500 starting stack, blinds starting at $5/$10.

nicnicnic · 20-10-2007 6:39pm

Culchie wrote: »

I'm surprised that amidst all the 'thrust' of the argument of average stacks at final tables, and what constitutes a 'crapshoot' and what doesn't, that the posters have mentioned the key variable in the whole debate .... how many entrants there are !

If there's a 10k starting stack, and 100 players, then obviously if there are 200 runners, the average stack at the final table is going to be twice as big....allowing for more 'play'.

.

this is totally flawed logic the average stack is completely irrelevant. The average bigblinds or M is what matters. I've played final tables where there's a huge amount more play with 60 runners then say this years Irish Open with 700 runners

Culchie · 20-10-2007 6:54pm

nicnicnic wrote: »

this is totally flawed logic the average stack is completely irrelevant. The average bigblinds or M is what matters. I've played final tables where there's a huge amount more play with 60 runners then say this years Irish Open with 700 runners

I think you have misread my post.

If we're playing a particular tournament and have 100 entrants @ 10k stack, average stack on final table (of ten) is 100k, if there was 200 runners for the same tournament and same blind structure, average stack would be 200k, there's more chips on the final table, so this does make a difference to the 'speed' of the final table.

nicnicnic · 20-10-2007 7:00pm

Culchie wrote: »

I think you have misread my post.

If we're playing a particular tournament and have 100 entrants @ 10k stack, average stack on final table (of ten) is 100k, if there was 200 runners for the same tournament and same blind structure, average stack would be 200k, there's more chips on the final table, so this does make a difference to the 'speed' of the final table.

yes but it will take longer to reach the final table so the blinds will be at a higher level. Average stack means absolutely nothing.