Polish as official 3rd language

An Citeog

mathie wrote: »

I lived in Germany for a year.
Not a sniff of any documents or forms from the banks being in anything other than German.

If you go to a country you need to understand the language.
Otherwise hard luck.

M

QFT! You can get away with just English for the general day to day stuff but administrative staff in all local government departments/banks I've encountered only speak their native language. We take it for granted that everybody speaks English but how many Irish/English/American people speak a foreign language with any degree of competency?

syklops

An Citeog wrote: »

QFT! You can get away with just English for the general day to day stuff but administrative staff in all local government departments/banks I've encountered only speak their native language. We take it for granted that everybody speaks English but how many Irish/English/American people speak a foreign language with any degree of competency?

Quite alot actually. In the US you learn french or spanish from a young age. I have friends who speak french and or spanish fluently, and I have one friend wo speaks English, Irish, and french fluently, speaks Dutch and Polish well, and is about to start Hindi.

syklops

Deleted User wrote: »

This may seem like a silly question, but how many countries actually speak Polish? Is it solely Poland?

if you speak polish you can communicate with czeck, slovak, and other eastern countries as they are very similar. I think Czeck is almost exactly the same.

Poland has roughly 35Million people, so its not like your learning some little known language with only a handful of people who use it, like one language that springs to mind....

Tigger

syklops wrote: »

if you speak polish you can communicate with czeck, slovak, and other eastern countries as they are very similar. I think Czeck is almost exactly the same.

Poland has roughly 35Million people, so its not like your learning some little known language with only a handful of people who use it, like one language that springs to mind....

everyone speaks english

Rock Climber

connundrum wrote: »

A guy (the editor I think) from Szpila Magazine, a Polish Community mag was on the radio this morning promoting the idea of introducing Polish as the official 3rd language of Ireland.

The reasoning behind it being that there are 250,000 Poles living in Ireland and that life for them is relatively difficult i.e. reading signs, communicating with officials etc. The thinking is that once Polish is recognised as an official language, then all documents will have to be produced in triplicate. (There were a number of other benefits but I was driving and didn't catch the others)

He was all for it, suggesting that Irish people could be learning Polish in schools, that Polish people would benefit from it in that it'd aid integration into Irish society. He even went as far as to suggest that a few Polish history lessons mightn't go amiss.

What to do...

He must have known that was a non runner.
250,000 polish in Ireland? It's probably closer to 150,000 to be honest. and even that is more than double what the census stated if you allow for a huge amount who didnt fill in a census last year (that might be high but not 190k poles)

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm

Scoobydoobydoo

syklops wrote: »

Im not for it, but there are more people in Ireland who speak polish fluently, than who speak Irish fluently. I know, I know, Its our heritage, cultural right, blah blah blah. But the truth is if you want to communicate with people from other countries, Irish is of absolutely no use what soever(unless you work for Mossad). I loath the 14 years I spent being taught it. If I had instead learnt polish, I could propose to my girlfriend in her native tongue(fyi she is staying here) and manage to communicate with czecks, slovaks and other eastern countries. If I had spent the time learning Arabic, I could get a job with any Intelligence service/embassy/translating company in the world. Heck, even if I had learnt latin, it would have been a help as most european languages stem from it. Polish sounds at times like latin.

When the irish emmigrated to America millions of years ago, most spoke english, some may have spoken mainly Irish with some english, but when they arrived off the boat, at least the street signs were in English, and not in English and Mohican/Iroquis. Would so many have stayed if they were?

Again I want to say I am not necessarily for it, but look at the number of people who actually speak our current national tongue. Personally I think it is too early to decide to add polish. If the population of polish people stays at or above 250,000 for 10 years, then yes, it has my vote.

you can all light your torches and get your pitchforks now.

I would not agree with your attitude of showing more concern for a foreign tongue than your own heritage blah blah blah.

I would not agree with this in a million years, let alone ten.

Personally, I'd have more use for French, Italian or German, as I would visit these countries on a regular basis. I've no intentions of visiting Poland on a regular basis, but also the language doesn't appeal to me to want to learn it. I have only met one Polish person in Ireland, but if I was meeting them every day of my life, I still wouldn't want it as an official language. I would be offended if any language was made an official third language.

I wouldn't care if any particular nationality overtook the Irish population in Ireland, I still would be set against any change.

I think it is extremely cheeky for anyone to make this suggestion. This is not compatible with integration. They wouldn't have to bother learning English if this happened.

An Citeog

syklops wrote: »

Quite alot actually. In the US you learn french or spanish from a young age. I have friends who speak french and or spanish fluently, and I have one friend wo speaks English, Irish, and french fluently, speaks Dutch and Polish well, and is about to start Hindi.

Not that many actually! While the US has been forced (to some degree) to learn Spanish, Ireland is terrible for its knowledge of foreign languages. The UK is somewhat better but it's still poor. In most other European countries, people can speak their native tongue and some level of English.

Wacker

knightmare wrote: »

A lot of american schools do teach spanish though! Possibly because of the large number of south american immigrants

The US doesn't actually have an officiial language, unless I'm very much mistaken. Thus it makes sense that the schools would teach in the language of the local majority.

Sponge Bob

Nach féidir leo Gaeilge a fhoghlam má tá siad dáiríre faoin tír seo, agus muna bhfuil nach féidir leo canúint wha bud story Bhaile Átha Cliath a fhoghlam ina h-áit .

Bhfearr liomsa Spáinis mar thriú theanga ....más gá ceann !

digitally-yours

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nach féidir leo Gaeilge a fhoghlam má tá siad dáiríre faoin tír seo, agus muna bhfuil nach féidir leo canúint wha bud story Bhaile Átha Cliath a fhoghlam ina h-áit .

Bhfearr liomsa Spáinis mar thriú theanga ....más gá ceann !

Sponge Bob

digitally-yours wrote: »

Níor éist tú ar scoil , an ea ?????

Ach ná h-abair tada maith an buachaill nó ceapfaidh na Pólanaigh go bhfuilid dúr.

Nobody has answered my question about if Polish is made an official 3rd language, would it be taught in the schools?

Would it be of any economic benefit to us if that were the case? I would see it as being more of an economic benefit to Polish people if they did learn to speak english.

digitally-yours

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Níor éist tú ar scoil , an ea ?????

Ach ná h-abair tada maith an buachaill nó ceapfaidh na Pólanaigh go bhfuilid dúr.

Kintarō Hattori

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nach féidir leo Gaeilge a fhoghlam má tá siad dáiríre faoin tír seo, agus muna bhfuil nach féidir leo canúint wha bud story Bhaile Átha Cliath a fhoghlam ina h-áit .

Bhfearr liomsa Spáinis mar thriú theanga ....más gá ceann !

I like most Irish people haven't a clue what that man has just said.

Sponge Bob

eo980 wrote: »

I like most Irish people haven't a clue what that man has just said.

Ar cheart Pólanais a mhúineadh ar scoil donár bpáistí mar sin ??

Nó nach leanann tú an lóic leis seo ??

faceman

I dont agree with this either as it doesnt encourage integration.

It frustrates me when we all see and know the mistakes made in other countries with regards to integration but we are going down the same road.

digitally-yours

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody has answered my question about if Polish is made an official 3rd language, would it be taught in the schools?

Would it be of any economic benefit to us if that were the case? I would see it as being more of an economic benefit to Polish people if they did learn to speak english.

Poland is not the hotspot in terms of trade and the economy is not growing at the speed they expected.Its slower the housing boom didnt happened there as the income of locals has hardly gone up since they joined EU.

I don't think there will be any significant advantages of learning polish.
That said you cannot underestimate any language

"knowledge is power"

jester77

Teach Polish, we can't even teach Irish!
When you move to a foreign country it's up to you to learn it's language and follow their way of living/culture... well that's my opinion anyway. Of course the locals need to be understanding and helpful to you and help you to fit in!

Sponge Bob

jester77 wrote: »

Teach Polish, we can't even teach Irish!

Ná fiú Béarla , bud story wha! wha! wha!! bud.

mise_me_fein

growler wrote: »

have to disagree with you, the english government who bent over backwards to make all races / creeds feel welcome in sunny London by producing every governemet document in 40+ languages recently admitted that such a practice didn't help and actually reinforced the marginalisation of minorities. If someone is going to work live in ireland or anywhere, learn the native tongue, simple.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories

Yet we're still helping Polish, etc gain citizenship by accommodating them by putting the information in their native tongue............

Hey come to Ireland, don't learn English, Irish(What the hell is that), look just come over, work in some Polish place for a few years and then get your citizenship...happy days, you can now get the dole.

jester77

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ná fiú Béarla , bud story wha! wha! wha!! bud.

Seriously though, what % of the Irish population can hold a proper conversation as Gaeilge, not just the cupla focail? I doubt even half could but only speculating, perhaps someone has figures

digitally-yours

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ná fiú Béarla , bud story wha! wha! wha!! bud.

We know you can speak Irish.I give you full credit for that.
But Irish Language is getting limited day by day.

layke

Ask me again in 20 years.

digitally-yours

jester77 wrote: »

Seriously though, what % of the Irish population can hold a proper conversation as Gaeilge, not just the cupla focail? I doubt even half could but only speculating, perhaps someone has figures

Your wish is my command

http://www.cso.ie/census/census2006results/volume_9/volume_9_irish_language_entire_volume.pdf

Ekancone

No. Any such resources could be used to get Polish people to attend English classes, or Irish classes.

Sponge Bob

agus Pólanais , figiúirí ???

Kintarō Hattori

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ná fiú Béarla , bud story wha! wha! wha!! bud.

Actually it's a little annoying that your continuing to speak in Irish. You have a forum here for that. It's shameful that so few Irish people (myself included) can speak the language but that's the way it is.
What are you hoping to achieve, what point are you trying to make in continuing to post here in Irish knowing that the majority don't understand you and can't reply to what your saying.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Well I'm calling on the Minister for Education to consider teaching all 521 offical Nigerian languages too, shouldn't be a problem, haven't we just opened a school in Balbriggan for Africans?.

Sponge Bob

Mairt wrote: »

Well I'm calling on the Minister for Education to consider teaching all 521 offical Nigerian languages too,

Níl ann ach 419 díobh

Overheal

Every Polish person I've spoken to about it (admittably less than a dozen) all say they have no intention of staying - its just a fund-raising opportunity so they can for the most part go pack to Poland and pay for their College and such.

Nothing wrong with that, but until you begin seeing a significant number of permanent Polish residents (or naturalised Polish)....

Even still I agree whole heartedly that they should learn English and practise that. Polish history though? I'd consent to that - it makes sense to educate kids about the kind of people they live with. Personally I dont know a damn thing about Eastern Europe.

I mean - if you want them to know English, they should have you know a little about them too, correct? Its only good manners.

Scoobydoobydoo

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody has answered my question about if Polish is made an official 3rd language, would it be taught in the schools?

Yes, I heard on the radio that this is also on the same agenda. I think as an optional subject as with French etc.

ednwireland

what a crazy idea just fishing for more readership i guess i actually speak polish brought up with it although born and bred in england. i think people are getting confused here if there were 250000 irish citizens living here who spoke only polish there may be an argument there (as in spanish in the US where many us citizens speak mainly spanish) but these people are here working for as long as there are jobs and many will move on so my answer is absolutely no to making it an official language.

arybvtcw0eolkf

faceman wrote: »

I dont agree with this either as it doesnt encourage integration.

It frustrates me when we all see and know the mistakes made in other countries with regards to integration but we are going down the same road.

Thats complete bullsh*t.

Last time I drove down Parnell St. (Chinese & Nigerian), Capel St. (Polish & east EU), Clanbrasill St. (Indian & Pakistan), Top of the NCR (Nigerian) I didn't see SS Gastapo guards rounding up the inmates and bricking them in!.

These people buy into certain area's, set up a little comfort zone, which attracts others and so 'quarters' are set up. Its not OUR making.

Scoobydoobydoo

Overheal wrote: »

Polish history though? I'd consent to that - it makes sense to educate kids about the kind of people they live with. Personally I dont know a damn thing about Eastern Europe.

I mean - if you want them to know English, they should have you know a little about them too, correct? Its only good manners.

Yes, a little Polish history maybe, but not more than any other foreign country's history. I don't believe it should be made more relevant just because a large number of their people have decided to come here.

Scoobydoobydoo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ar cheart Pólanais a mhúineadh ar scoil donár bpáistí mar sin ??

Nó nach leanann tú an lóic leis seo ??

Good point, Sponge Bob

jester77

digitally-yours wrote: »

Your wish is my command

http://www.cso.ie/census/census2006results/volume_9/volume_9_irish_language_entire_volume.pdf

Cheers for that! I was a bit optimistic with my 50%, just over 40% can speak if the figures are honest!

Sponge Bob

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

Yes, a little Polish history maybe, but not more than any other foreign country's history. I don't believe it should be made more relevant just because a large number of their people have decided to come here.

Ach tá sé an chongarach are go leor bealach. Maraíodh an oiread de dhaonra na Pólaine 1939-1947 agus a maraíodh de dhaonra na h-Éireann 1645-1655 mar shampla...nó de dhaonra na Gearmáine 1620 -1630.

mise_me_fein

Fair play on the Irish Sponge Bob but I like many don't understand it enough, but if I have children they will.

Irish is growing, more and more Irish schools are being set up. We could be truly bi-lingual in 30 years if we worked at it.

What language do people speak in The Ukraine? I think they're in a bit of a similar spot over there. I think most speak Russian. They're gonna get their language back though.

Scoobydoobydoo

Mairt wrote: »

Thats complete bullsh*t.

Last time I drove down Parnell St. (Chinese & Nigerian), Capel St. (Polish & east EU), Clanbrasill St. (Indian & Pakistan), Top of the NCR (Nigerian) I didn't see SS Gastapo guards rounding up the inmates and bricking them in!.

These people buy into certain area's, set up a little comfort zone, which attracts others and so 'quarters' are set up. Its not OUR making.

I think the argument is not that it's our making, but rather that we're letting it happen. However natural it might be for various nationalities to create their own little communities, some think that this leads to ghettos so is a bad idea. There will I'm sure be some immigrants who would settle themselves into these communities, and not bother to mix with natives, or even learn the language. Down the line they may start to feel isolated, even if it's largely of their own doing, and this could lead to bigger, long term problems.

syklops

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

I would not agree with your attitude of showing more concern for a foreign tongue than your own heritage blah blah blah.

I would not agree with this in a million years, let alone ten.

Personally, I'd have more use for French, Italian or German, as I would visit these countries on a regular basis. I've no intentions of visiting Poland on a regular basis, but also the language doesn't appeal to me to want to learn it. I have only met one Polish person in Ireland, but if I was meeting them every day of my life, I still wouldn't want it as an official language. I would be offended if any language was made an official third language.

I wouldn't care if any particular nationality overtook the Irish population in Ireland, I still would be set against any change.

I think it is extremely cheeky for anyone to make this suggestion. This is not compatible with integration. They wouldn't have to bother learning English if this happened.

You have only met one polish person? Where do you live? Inis Mann?

Im sorry you do not agree with my point of view, and please remember, I have absolute respect for my heritage, and I recognise that irish is a part of that heritage, I do not agree with the way the language is force fed to students and the population in general. A sure fire way of making people resent the language is making people learn it who do not want to.

I do meet polish people everyday. My girlfriend is Polish, my next door neighbour is polish. I work with Polish people, they guy who drives the bus i get in the morning is polish, and have a few words in the language is very useful. Between getting up and arriving in work I have met 5 people who speak polish as there first language, and none who speak Irish as their first language.

Also please note I am against its introduction aswell.

To sponge-bob, I managed to pick out a few words of what you said. Had you written it in polish, at least I would have found someone nearby who could translate it. No one in work/home was able to translate this.

SimpleSam06

Galwayguy99 wrote: »

Actually, Ireland let in so many Polish because they chose to come to a strong economy with jobs, and because they were an EU member state they had freedom of movement - when the accession countries joined the EU Ireland was one of the member states who did not place restrictions on numbers.

Yes, but the point was that we let them in because the UK let them in. We had no real choice, just like we drive on the wrong side of the road when compared to the rest of the world.

Galwayguy99 wrote: »

Don't think they could do it retrospectively - and in any case if they wanted to it would be for economic reasons i.e. economic downturn, fewer jobs, in which case many of the Poles would have gone home anyway.

Actually we could turf just about anyone we wanted out of the country, and lock down the borders too. Thats why its called Ireland, not Anyonesland. Not saying we should, just it could be done alright.

eldeabroad

Deleted User wrote: »

If I move to Spain, I'll learn to speak Spanish. If I move to China, I'll learn to speak Chinese./QUOTE]


I live in The Basque Country and speak spanish as well as some Basque, quite often use my english (with tourists or other Irish) and know Irish people here who converse in Irish between themselves. There are many people from many other countries in the town where I live and the thing that strikes me is that the Irish are about the only group that actively mix with and integrate into the local society, despite being of smaller numbers. Romanians in particular seem to want to intimidate and harass the locals into being afraid of them... has not nor will not work though... at least not here..... be very careful, Ireland, when the romanians/bulgarians start to arrive... there will be a high rise in crime, assaults, intimidation etc BE WARNED (I have personal experience of this btw)

digitally-yours

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Actually we could turf just about anyone we wanted out of the country, and lock down the borders too. Thats why its called Ireland, not Anyonesland. Not saying we should, just it could be done alright.

Not anymore

Things changing soon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6928737.stm

Update your self

SimpleSam06

Overheal wrote: »

Polish history though? I'd consent to that - it makes sense to educate kids about the kind of people they live with. Personally I dont know a damn thing about Eastern Europe.

I mean - if you want them to know English, they should have you know a little about them too, correct? Its only good manners.

How about as an alternative measure, we make knowledge of Irish history a prerequisite for people wanting to enter the country for work purposes?

SimpleSam06

digitally-yours wrote: »

Not anymore

Things changing soon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6928737.stm

Update your self

Regardless of the EU's superstate aspirations, short of physically invading a place, they can't stop a member state from dropping out if they want. Not to mention that this treaty is nowhere near ratified.

Scoobydoobydoo

syklops wrote: »

You have only met one polish person? Where do you live? Inis Mann?

Im sorry you do not agree with my point of view, and please remember, I have absolute respect for my heritage, and I recognise that irish is a part of that heritage, I do not agree with the way the language is force fed to students and the population in general. A sure fire way of making people resent the language is making people learn it who do not want to.

I do meet polish people everyday. My girlfriend is Polish, my next door neighbour is polish. I work with Polish people, they guy who drives the bus i get in the morning is polish, and have a few words in the language is very useful. Between getting up and arriving in work I have met 5 people who speak polish as there first language, and none who speak Irish as their first language.
T

I live in Dublin 14. I have only met one Polish person in the office where I work, and we've had a conversation once (he's in a different department). That's it, never anywhere else, ever!!
Also in the office are people from Germany, USA, UK, so there isn't a larger proportion of any one group.

I am surprised that you are surprised that I don't meet Polish people in my day to day life! Why is that?

I understand Sponge Bob because I went to Gaelscoileanna, but I understand why you're not a fan of the language if you've been taught badly. My son is going through the system now, unfortunately for him in an English speaking school, and I've noticed that in general, the standard of teaching it and the approach is just awful in these places. It's a pity, because I think it's important to keep it alive.

Ekancone

Mairt wrote: »

haven't we just opened a school in Balbriggan for Africans?.

Indeed, let the ghettoisation begin!!

Múinteoir

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nach féidir leo Gaeilge a fhoghlam má tá siad dáiríre faoin tír seo, agus muna bhfuil nach féidir leo canúint wha bud story Bhaile Átha Cliath a fhoghlam ina h-áit .

Bhfearr liomsa Spáinis mar thriú theanga ....más gá ceann !

For someone so determined to speak Irish Sponge Bob, you're nowhere to be seen in Teach na nGealt. Cen fáth sin?

is_that_so

mise_me_fein wrote: »

What language do people speak in The Ukraine? I think they're in a bit of a similar spot over there. I think most speak Russian. They're gonna get their language back though.

Ukraine is a very special case. Being part of the old Soviet Union and also subject to the removal or departure of much of its intelligentsia in the bad old days, Russian became the dominant tongue. You will also find many people with roots in Russia, as people would have moved or been moved around a lot.
These days Polish is also spoken in the West near L'viv. Ukrainian would be spoken throughout the country but there are still many places in the East where Russian might be more common.

As for the question, well we ain't even got a second language despite Sponge Bob's best effort. It's a quiet news day and the comments are bordering on utter silliness. I see nothing wrong with Polish schools, in the same way that we have German or French schools here and no doubt there may be schools for other nationalities. Most AFAIK are private and kids go there so that they can get qualifications for their own country as well.

Sponge Bob

Múinteoir wrote: »

For someone so determined to speak Irish Sponge Bob, you're nowhere to be seen in Teach na nGealt. Cen fáth sin?

Ní bhímse anseo go ró mhinic ach an oiread a chomrádaí