Final Fantasy XII

Lawless_Samurai

I'm a big fan of Final fantasy. Love them! Final Fantasy X being my favourite but for some reason I havn't been able to get into 12 at all... I played it for a while when I bought it at the start of summer but stopped playing and since just havn't been able to force myself to get back into it.... Might need a bit of encouragement. Is it worth starting back up again???

ec18

hmmmmm........don't know didn't really like much of it

Varkov

Me and about four other FF nutjobs I know had the the same problem. A few of them managed to finish it, I myself couldn't gather the interest to pick it up again.

We all agreed it was a good game, a good RPG. It just wasn't "FF good".

Maybe we're getting older? Maybe we're getting sick of the same formulas? Maybe its moving too far away from the formulas we love?

No doubt I'll play through it agaain sometime fairly soon, but it does kind of dishearten me that I didn't want to finish it first time around.

Retr0gamer

I had the same problem with FFXII as well. It really bored me and it just wasn't a real Final Fantasy game. There are reasons for this.

After Final Fantasy X the creator of Final Fantasy and producer of all the games left square enix with most of the original FF production team and other squaresoft talent and set up Mistwalker. Their first game Blue Dragon was released recently on the xbox 360 and is a great game, much more of a final fantasy game than FFXII.

FFXII's production was left to the team behind Vagrant Story. The producer himself said that he was making FFXII so that it would be a sidestory set in the vagrant story world. The art style is the same as Vagrant Story and even the vagrant story composer returns to make a soundtrack very similar to the VS music. The combat is also awful just like in VS but FFXII doesn't have a decent story to save it unlike VS. So what you are left with is a FF game in name only made by a team that was making a game that is nothing like a Final Fantasy game.

In all honestly if you want to play Final Fantasy games you are better off getting a 360 and DS and waiting for the Mistwalker games which are more Final Fantasy than the new games that bare the name. The games since FFX have been handled by producers with little to no experience of working on an FF game and therefore end up completely different to the series we know and love. The only bright light on the horizon is Crisis Core which is being handled by a few FF veterans. I've a nasty feeling that FFXIII will be terrible as well.

Lawless_Samurai

Varkov wrote: »

Me and about four other FF nutjobs I know had the the same problem. A few of them managed to finish it, I myself couldn't gather the interest to pick it up again.

We all agreed it was a good game, a good RPG. It just wasn't "FF good".

Maybe we're getting older? Maybe we're getting sick of the same formulas? Maybe its moving too far away from the formulas we love?

No doubt I'll play through it agaain sometime fairly soon, but it does kind of dishearten me that I didn't want to finish it first time around.

Wasn't "FF good" thats how i'd describe it.

"After Final Fantasy X the creator of Final Fantasy and producer of all the games left square enix with most of the original FF production team and other squaresoft talent and set up Mistwalker."

Did not realise that at all and now that I know I'm a little disapointed :(:(

animaX

I managed to finish it but it was a struggle. Never gripped me like the other final fantasy titles. Oh, and they reduced the roles of the aeons/summons/GF's to nothing.

Now i'm playing FF8 on my psp and it reminds of how good they were

Lawless_Samurai

animaX wrote: »

Now i'm playing FF8 on my psp and it reminds of how good they were

Didn't know it was out on the PSP.... Gotta go!

ec18

when did it come out on the psp?

Retr0gamer

It didn't come out on the PSP. If you have a PSP with custom firmware you can play the iso images through the PS1 emulator.

I think FFVIII is a good case for demonstrating that FFXII has lost the FF magic. It has a dreadful story, even worse characters, overly confusing menus, a dreadful battle system with the ridiculously crap draw system and the junction system can easily be used to break the game.

Even with all those negative points I still enjoyed it enough to beat it twice. FFXII on the other hand I struggled to even beat it once and will never return to play it again.

animaX

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It didn't come out on the PSP. If you have a PSP with custom firmware you can play the iso images through the PS1 emulator.

I think FFVIII is a good case for demonstrating that FFXII has lost the FF magic. It has a dreadful story, even worse characters, overly confusing menus, a dreadful battle system with the ridiculously crap draw system and the junction system can easily be used to break the game.

Even with all those negative points I still enjoyed it enough to beat it twice. FFXII on the other hand I struggled to even beat it once and will never return to play it again.

I agree entirely! Drawing is so annoying but i'm still hooked!

Varkov

Status attack --> 100 zombie --> 1 hit -->pheonix down FTW

animaX

Varkov wrote: »

Status attack --> 100 zombie --> 1 hit -->pheonix down FTW

I'll keep that in mind!

Back to topic, one thing i think the newer final fantasies are missing are the mini-games and subgames. Like the chocobo racing in FF7, tetra master card game in FF8 and the card game in FF9, blitzball in FF10.
Was there any game at all in FF12?

entropi

animaX wrote: »

Was there any game at all in FF12?

Yes there was but it was extremely bad, a game in Balfonheim docks where you race 3 pirates up some streets, getting an ever so slightly better prize each victory you get

On the original topic though, i DID manage to finish the game, taking out all marks, almost all summons obtained and was thinking about grinding for Yiazmat but couldn't suffer through the time needed for that so cba now

philemon

@Retr0gamer

Just a few facts to straighten up your earlier post.

VS didn't had an "awful" combat system, it just wasn't a pure breed rpg and it needn't be compared to FFs just because it's been produced by the same company of said fame.

As to 12's crappish plot, Yasumi Matsuno left the company somewhere midway in the developing process of the game and the scipt obviously hasn't been polished much since his departure. Not to mention the fact, that 12 was a huge project with the biggest number of teams involved in Square's history yet, so it's no surprise that without the head honcho the game has lost much of its consistency.

I'm a big fan of VS & FFT and pretty much liked the early stages of the game, but at some point completing it has been a real chore.

Vokes

The newer games post-X are missing soul.

The only thing im eagerly awaiting is FFIVDS

R.I.P FF

Retr0gamer

philemon wrote: »

@Retr0gamer

Just a few facts to straighten up your earlier post.

VS didn't had an "awful" combat system, it just wasn't a pure breed rpg and it needn't be compared to FFs just because it's been produced by the same company of said fame.

As to 12's crappish plot, Yasumi Matsuno left the company somewhere midway in the developing process of the game and the scipt obviously hasn't been polished much since his departure. Not to mention the fact, that 12 was a huge project with the biggest number of teams involved in Square's history yet, so it's no surprise that without the head honcho the game has lost much of its consistency.

I'm a big fan of VS & FFT and pretty much liked the early stages of the game, but at some point completing it has been a real chore.

I don't think you are defending FFXII but the points you made still don't excuse FFXII for turning out to be a very poor game compared to the rest of the series.

As for Vagrant Story I wasn't comparing it to Final Fantasy and I thought the battle system was awful, my personal opinion. The risk system was really annoying. In early stages of the game I was comboing like made and filling up the risk gauge so it took me ages to kill some bad guys and had to wait ages for the gauge to drop. After I figured out the optimum combo size to use (the risk gauge really should have been explained a lot better) it was still a case of just initiating combo after combo until the bad guy went down. It felt like diablo, which for me has a terrible combat system, but with the risk system to annoy me even more. Also the combo system broke the game, if you were good at combos you could take anything down. I was really underpowered for the last boss and could only do 1 hp damage to him thanks to a massive difficulty spike. Howecver since I could rank up combos of 40-60 hits it meant I could rake up 200-250 hp damage even with my risk gauge at max which was more than enough to kill him (after 40 minutes I might add).

Still the wonderful soundtrack, atmosphere and story meant it was well worth playing.

Lawless_Samurai

animaX wrote: »

I'll keep that in mind!

Back to topic, one thing i think the newer final fantasies are missing are the mini-games and subgames. Like the chocobo racing in FF7, tetra master card game in FF8 and the card game in FF9, blitzball in FF10.
Was there any game at all in FF12?

I got lost playing blitzball in 10!!! :):D

philemon

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't think you are defending FFXII but the points you made still don't excuse FFXII for turning out to be a very poor game compared to the rest of the series.

(...)

Still the wonderful soundtrack, atmosphere and story meant it was well worth playing.

Nah, I'm not defending the game. Rather I was trying to state that it could've been much more better if only Matsuno would stay on the team till the end of the project. I'll definetly give it the game one more shot once I'll get a decent tv, even if only for the sake of checking out the architecture in certain locations and Penelo.

It's a decent game on its own but just doesn't live up to its expectations and franchise name. I have a nasty feeling that FF13 will share the same fate.. I mean, Tetsuya Nomura is the director.. It doesn't have to necessarily mean anything but lately his character designs are being more and more generic...

Crisis Core, on the other hand, is scoring up great reviews everywhere and turned out to be a smash hit in Japan, I can't wait for english localization now.

Good points on VS! Combat system was far from being perfect, but methinks it turned out pretty well for an action rpg. Also, using different weapons out of good materials could shorten a lot of battles. Can't deny though that the game was making it up for its mechanics mostly with design, music and plot.

Btw, check out Odin Sphere if you have the chance. H. Sakimoto also did the score for that one (one of his finest in my opinion) and the graphics (hand drawn 2D) are just amazing.

edit: Oh, and hi everybody! Just joined today.

What's the best place to post jrpg related topics, seeing as some of the boards are nearly dead or lacking in posters ?

Retr0gamer

I'm a fairly far through Odin Sphere at the moment and it's a truly wonderful game. It's more beautiful than any HD game on the newer consoles, has a great combat system and that Hitoshi Sakimoto soundtrack is wonderful, a return to form after a pretty average OST for FFXII. Love sakimoto's work he can do wonderful orchestration like with FF Tactics and Radiant Silvergun (only he could make an orchestral score work in a Shoot 'em up) to some wonderful and unique digital and high tempo work for Gradius V and Soukyugurentai.

I really haven't much hope for FFXIII since Tetsuya Nomura is behind it. The only other project he had creative control of was Advent Children and that was a total mess.

Didn't know Matsuno had left Squaresoft, that really is a huge blow since he was one of the only talented game designers left at Square.

I'm actually a little optimistic about Crisis Core. The team behind it seems to be made up of the remenants of the Final Fantasy team after it was gutted by Sakaguchi when he left. There's some real talent working on that game unlike most of Squares other input.

If you want some discussion on J-RPGs you should try the games forum or the platform specific forums. They are always active.

ecoli

animaX wrote: »

I'll keep that in mind!

Back to topic, one thing i think the newer final fantasies are missing are the mini-games and subgames. Like the chocobo racing in FF7, tetra master card game in FF8 and the card game in FF9, blitzball in FF10.
Was there any game at all in FF12?

FF7 not onli had the chocobo racing but the battle arena plus the many other wonders of the gold saucer not to mention the most elaborate and best story line in my opinion best game of all

ghouldaddy07

I have mixed feelings on ff12 I feel the story had real potential particularly at the start for the first few hours and with the Arcadian politics that briefly reminded me of ff tactics.

However once you get out of the castle and waterways the game takes a turn for the worse and I wreckon it is because they had bigger ambitions for the game but could not realise it for example

Spoilers below!!!!

the whole basch killing the king of Damascus angle would have been much
Better if his character had actually done it and not been framed.

I also feel they dropped the ball on the cid and Balthier
sidestory which could have
been epic if wasn’t limited to about 4 lines, 2 battles, no emotion and Balthier
being a raging camp clown.

The Basic plot of humans fighting for free will under the pretence of a human war could have been alot better had they not resorted to the sword and stone nonsense.

The game also felt as if it had been switched around during production,

when I was on the dungeon under the ancient city were the strange unexplained aliens whose plot was never resolved reside,
I honestly felt that was ment to be the last dungeon the game equivalent to the northern crater or ultimicas castle as it was easily the most difficult to navigate and traverse trough.

The Rosarians were also faceless except for that one moron with the shades.

I did feel the final battle and accompanying fmv's made up for it slightly

End of spoilers!!


In conclusion I feel ff12 was a victim of its own ambition and the change in staff midway cant of helped.

I would recommend the game to people as long as they forewarned not to expect it to live up the other ff games.

TheBigBiscuit

What ever happened to the spiky hair and big weapons? Is it just me or are the main characters just not impressive...? These new characters aren't masculine enough (in Vaan's case anyway). I think a nice feature would be bringing back something like th junction system of FFVIII or the similiar sytem in FFVII whereby every Summon bestows effects to the holder and they allow certain stats to be obtained. The weapon sytem was fairly good in FFVII too where you could equip a certain amount of abilities with certain weapons etc... You think?

Cina

So harsh on XII. Thoroughly enjoyed the game.

Lawless_Samurai

TheBigBiscuit wrote: »

What ever happened to the spiky hair and big weapons? Is it just me or are the main characters just not impressive...? These new characters aren't masculine enough (in Vaan's case anyway)

The origanal design for the vaan was with Black hair and much more masculine. They changed him half way through production. A mistake imo

TheBigBiscuit

Cina wrote: »

So harsh on XII. Thoroughly enjoyed the game.

Ah don't mean to sound like i hated it but when your used to ledgendary prequils its hard not to be a tad disappointed

Retr0gamer

The characters are girlie because the biggest market for FF games is with females in japan. Real men play dragon quest in japan .

Think bringing back the system from FFVII is a big mistake. It's an awful system despite being very user friendly. Takes all the personality from characters.

carbonkid

Storyline was the only thing that sucked a bit, character and map/landscape design and gameplay were excellent!

Anyways logged on to ask does anyone know a good place in FFXII to bufff up my guys from 55 to about 60/65? Anywhere i go either i only get a crappy 500 exp or it takes too long to kill them.

~Marky~

Anybody else play it on the DS? its pretty good but I am half way through it now and its getting very repetitive doing the same thing but great graphics for the DS..

funky penguin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Still the wonderful soundtrack, atmosphere and story meant it was well worth playing.

oooo, I've never played Vagrant Story, but I thought the soundtrack was one of the (few) highlights of FFXII. You mentioned it was the same composer earlier, so better or worse that FFXII's music?

Might pick up Vagrant story now!

Retr0gamer

funky penguin wrote: »

oooo, I've never played Vagrant Story, but I thought the soundtrack was one of the (few) highlights of FFXII. You mentioned it was the same composer earlier, so better or worse that FFXII's music?

Might pick up Vagrant story now!

The soundtrack to Vagrant Story is one of the best soundtracks ever composed. Absolutely wonderful. Have look at some videos online, the opening that last 15 minutes is probably the bet opening of any videogame ever. The battle system is a little naff but it makes up for it with atmosphere and a fantastic storyline. The game even has a superb translation in olde english which is a huge surprise for a Squaresoft game. Hitoshi Sakimoto is the man responsible for the soundtrack and has never made a soundtrack for a game that is less than stellar other than FFXII which is why I'm so disappointed with it. He did the soundtracks to Final Fantasy Tactics, Radiant Silvergun, Soukyugurentai, Gradius V among others if you have heard any of his superb work on those games.

BeerWolf

Heretics, the lot of you!


I love FF 12, it knocked FF 7 from my top fav dropping it to 2nd of all FF titles