Helmets - Post your helmets here

Dr Strange

Ok, I get the ball rolling. If we get lots of helmets from different time periods and armies then we may separate some of them into different threads. For the time being this will suffice.

I got this helmet from my father-in-law (to be) and it seems to be one of the British made helmets reused for the Civil Defence (Cosaint Shibhialta).

It has been painted over with a white colour and the letters "C S" hand-painted on the front.

The issue number is also visible through the paint and the year seems to be "1939" for the helmet itself.

Dr Strange

This is a M17 helmet of German make WWI issue. It has been decorated with the Iron Cross, the colours of Imperial germany and the Prussian Eagle, probably after WWI as a Memento. Helmet Maker ET64 is Eisenhüttenwerke-Thale.










And the Helmetcat:

SpitfireIV

Very interesting helmets Preusse!! I particularly like the stahlhelm, love the decoration, so much more interesting than a 'standard' helmet, if only it could talk what a tale it'd tell....

Anyway, heres my 'Irish' brodie, I have to say I'm a little confused about this one, so maybe someone can help.

I purchased it at a market a few years back, £10 or £15 at the time I think. As I said I'm not too familiar with the 'brodie', this one has a strange strap, not like the more common elasticated strap that you see on WW2 brodies. This one has a liner dated 1939, but no obvious date on the shell, its been thickly painted over, so whatever stamping was there would be well covered. The liner also is a screw in type, as you can see from the single screw in the crown. Its a particularly small size liner! Eithers its significantly shrank over the years or it was made for a very small head!

Anyway, the decal (hand painted) on front is for the southern brigade. Again, if only this could talk!









Heres my M1916 German stahlhelm. Unfortunately I had to give this one a bit of a paint job. I came out of the cellar of a local pub (god only knows how it ended up there! Perhaps a local brought it back from the battlefield, who knows now....). Anyway, it was in a pretty bad state, however, at some stage in its post service life someone decided to get at it with red and white paint, so it had the late war, hand painted camoflauge pattern painted onto it, but in red and white and with lots of 'spots' too (dabs of white paint!). So I got rid of that, interestingly when removing the paint and rust I found the original color in small patches as well as fleck of the original camo color, hence the color you see now, I tried to get them as close as possible.

It was made by 'Gebruder', as its stamped 'G.62' on the inner rim. It has no liner unfortunately

Dr Strange

Hi CB1798,

thank you. Yes, I know, it would be great to know the full story behind the helmet but unfortunately it is lost. I bought this one from a dealer in England and he didn't know much about it.

Nice Brodie by the way. I saw one last year on a German site with a hand painted marking on the front. Some kind of "spearhead"? They said it was Irish.

Your German helmet's maker is Gebrüder Gnüchtel A.G aus Lauter i/Sa (Lauter in Sachsen). They used to make most of the 62 helmets. Thale made most of the 64's. The G62 is a typical German WWI combat Stahlhem.

Mick86

Preusse wrote: »

I saw one last year on a German site with a hand painted marking on the front. Some kind of "spearhead"? They said it was Irish.

Here's one. It's the Eastern Bde Flash by the way.



This one is an Auxiliary Fire Service Brodie. I'm not sure is the AFS was British or Irish though.

Dr Strange

The first one, that's exactly the one! Very nice, great to see it again and most of all, finding out about the flash. I let that one go by in a sale because I didn't know the flash and, sorry for the stereotyping, thought that, as an Irish helmet it had to have some harp or shamrock on it...SO sorry.

If anyone has one of the German style Irish Vickers Helmets, I would really be interested in one. Saw a book about Ireland's history once in a bookshop, soldiers marching with these helmets. Thought they were German but turned out to be Irish! Quite interesting.

Mick86

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Heres my M1916 German stahlhelm. Unfortunately I had to give this one a bit of a paint job. I came out of the cellar of a local pub (god only knows how it ended up there! Perhaps a local brought it back from the battlefield, who knows now....). Anyway, it was in a pretty bad state, however, at some stage in its post service life someone decided to get at it with red and white paint,

This is a Copy of the M1916 which was used in Irish service up to about 1940.
This one has had several lives including a Hell's Angels' brain bucket.:D I have avoided the temptation to repaint it.

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/utah/894/irishm27.htm

SpitfireIV

Preusse wrote: »

If anyone has one of the German style Irish Vickers Helmets, I would really be interested in one. Saw a book about Ireland's history once in a bookshop, soldiers marching with these helmets. Thought they were German but turned out to be Irish! Quite interesting.

There has been a couple on e-bay in recent weeks, I think there's one or two on e-Bay Ireland now.

Supposedly thats why the Irish army got rid of the Vickers helmet during the war, people were starting to compare them with German soldiers, the reason they chose the German style helmet in the first place was to get away from the British 'Brody' style helmet which of course didnt have a good image in Ireland.

Then of course theres the infamous story of thousands of them being bulldozed into the ground as part of foundations......:eek::(

SpitfireIV

Mick86 wrote:

This is a Copy of the M1916 which was used in Irish service up to about 1940.
This one has had several lives including a Hell's Angels' brain bucket.:D I have avoided the temptation to repaint it.

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/utah/894/irishm27.htm

Yeah, thats something like mine alright , except if you can imagine a red and white pattern with lots of big white 'spots'.

Dr Strange

Mick, that looks like the Irish Vickers! Does it have the makers name inside?

You are quite right, don't attempt to repaint it at all. However, you may want to try to restore its original colour. You can do that by applying acetone carefully to it (use a acetone-soaked cloth) and start rubbing at a less visible corner. Paint of post-WWII make usually come off easier with acetone while olde rpaint is not badly affected unless of course you keep on applying it for hours and hours and rub very hard.

Dr Strange

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Then of course theres the infamous story of thousands of them being bulldozed into the ground as part of foundations......:eek::(

Yes, heard about that. :mad:

EDIT: had a look at the supposed Vickers Helmet on Ebay. The shell is not in great condition at all. And I have some doubts about it being a Vickers, or at least the M27 that the Irish used. This looks post-WWI style, more like an M35 or even M40.

Mick86

British 1944 Pattern Helmet. Used by the Irish DF until early 1985. This one was used in the early Congo Missions having teh UN painetd on the front. Later the helmet was painted blue for UN service.







Troops bound for the Congo being inspected in Kickham Barracks, Clonmel. Note that they are still using the Lee Enfield drill with the FN rifle.

Mick86

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Yeah, thats something like mine alright , except if you can imagine a red and white pattern with lots of big white 'spots'.

When the Vickers was taken out of service it was painted white. I wonder was yours used by the Fire Service accounting for the red?

Preusse, I'll check for the makers name on mine later.

Mick86

Preusse wrote: »

Mick, that looks like the Irish Vickers! Does it have the makers name inside?

It's stamped at the rear, inside rim

V Ltd H8718
407 / '27

The 407 is very faint but that's what the number looks like to me.

Dr Strange

Thanks for the confirmation, Mick. Nice helmet!

marcsignal

Various Helmets, all original, but unsure about originallity of SS Helmet ??

marcsignal

More Helmets

marcsignal

And 1 More

Dr Strange

Very nice collection, marcsignal.

The luminous helmet is probably a M35. They were reused after the war.

I saw the pics of the SS helmet. It looks like an M40 but I would need to see a pic from the inside, particularly the rim. The decals are, unfortunately,modern replacements. Now it comes down to the colour. If it's repainted or not. You can check that easily. It the would be interesting to see the inside. If it turns out to be an original M40 I would restore it to its original condition, meaning: removing all the replacements and reapplied paint until the original colour shows up. You may even find remnants of the original decals under the new paint (if there is new paint). Not necessarily SS but even a Luftwaffe Eagle or Wehrmacht Eagle etc.

Can you take some better pics and also from the insdie (including makers mark and number etc.)? I can then have a closer look and let you know for definite what it is.

Nothing wrong though paying 25 Euro for it if the shell is still in good condition. In it's original state would be worth more of course.

marcsignal

Thanks Preusse, the stuff i uploaded is actually from my nephews collection here in Germany. I have a feeling though, that the ss helmet I have in Dublin is not originally a true ss helmet, but rather an M35 or 40 with new ss decal.
The other ss stuff i uploaded are original (identity discs & 'Germania' Cuff title)

My sister married a German here who's father served in the 'Germania' and later 'Wiking' Divisions. The Identity disc is his own one from the war. He died last summer, but I have access to his personal photo album from WW2, and could upload scanned pics of them in training, and on leave etc, but don't know if it would come under the umbrella of Militaria ??

I have about another 40 or so more pics to upload next week of the rest of his collection. I'll get em up when I get time to organise photographing them properly.

Dr Strange

marcsignal wrote: »

Thanks Preusse, the stuff i uploaded is actually from my nephews collection here in Germany. I have a feeling though, that the ss helmet I have in Dublin is not originally a true ss helmet, but rather an M35 or 40 with new ss decal.
The other ss stuff i uploaded are original (identity discs & 'Germania' Cuff title)

My sister married a German here who's father served in the 'Germania' and later 'Wiking' Divisions. The Identity disc is his own one from the war. He died last summer, but I have access to his personal photo album from WW2, and could upload scanned pics of them in training, and on leave etc, but don't know if it would come under the umbrella of Militaria ??

I have about another 40 or so more pics to upload next week of the rest of his collection. I'll get em up when I get time to organise photographing them properly.

Can't get any better than items from family members. Would still be greast to post the back of these as well so we have some reference if more discs etc are posted. We can then compare them. Particularly the SA badge which is an early rally-participation badge would be great to show the needle system at the back (it would probably be more like a pin?) and any makers marks (i know I go on about them).

Oh yes, pictures fall under collectible militaria. Lots of people collect technical pictures or uniform pictures or weapon pictures etc. Some only collect complete photoalbums of individual soldiers, others the propagande press pictures that were posted on local billboards. I have lots of pictures family related and non-family related but I haven't had the time yet to post them.

Mick86

I don't know much about helmets and particularly not German helmets so I'd be interested in any input on these.









Both of these appear to be the same type of helmet except for the colours. The green one has no decals on it and simply has the number 3 stamped inside the back rim. The liner is missing from the black helmet and it is stamped as depicted.

Mick86

This one appears to have been home painted in black gloss. There is a stamp on the inside rear rim which looks like

0393
IS 64

Also the helmet strap is not off this helmet, I would say. It's elasticated and heldon by the nut and bolt seen on the right hand vent.

SpitfireIV

Mick, those helmets (German ones) are quite obviously fakes, sorry to have to tell you, but hey, not to worry, I'll take them off you :p:D

On a serious note, the two green, ones look like an M1940 helmet and the other an M1935 (cant really see the air vents, but the one on the right appears to have a stamped air vent, cant get a clear view of the other). The Q stands for 'F.W. Quist G.m.b.H., Esslingen', ie the maker, and the size '62'

I'm not sure about that black one to be honest, looks odd, perhaps a firemans helmet?

EDIT: Just found some info on that black helmet, appears to be a police 'beaded' M1942 helmet

Mick86

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Mick, those helmets (German ones) are quite obviously fakes, sorry to have to tell you, but hey, not to worry, I'll take them off you :p:D

These ones are actually not mine unfortunately.

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

EDIT: Just found some info on that black helmet, appears to be a police 'beaded' M1942 helmet

The beaded refers to the bulge over the rim, I take it?

Dr Strange

The black beaded one is a fire-police helmet M35 style. It means fire fighters nowadays. However, some Luftschutz (Air Raid Warden) and TENO or Technische Nothilfe, had these helmets as well. Luftschutz and TENO are what you would call now Civil Defence. The 'normal' M35 does not have the beaded rim. The one you have came in two versions in particular, one with the beaded rim but one piece and the other with beaded rim two-pieces.
I'll get some more info for you, Mick, on the other helmets, both are M34's and the makers marks are quite visible.

wotisthere

Hi there, I have M 27 . IT WAS GIVEN TO ME BY AN AUNT WHO WAS IN THE CIVIL DEFENCE AS I COLLECT A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. THE HELMET ITSELF IS IN GREAT CONDITION, THE WHITE PAINT HAS NEARLY GONE. ALL THE CUSHIONS ARE NICE AND COMPACT AS IS THE CHIN STRAP.ON THE STRAP INSIDE THERE IS THE NAME OF A MAKER (IRISH, DUBLIN ) ALL IN ALL A VERY NICE PIECE. I COLLECT SMALLER WW2 GERMAN ITEMS <snip>.I GOT SOME INFO. ABOUT IT BY A GUY ON THE NET. I JUST TYPED IN IRISH HELMETS. JUST OVER 10000 WERE MADE BUT THEY WHERE INFERIOR TO WHAT WAS NEEDED SO THEY WERE ISSUED TO THE CIVIL DEFENCE WHO COULD USE THEM.later on appx. 4500 were used as part of ground works in a army barracks here in dublin . IF PICTURES ARE REQUIRED JUST GET IN TOUCH OR YOU CAN SEE THE ITEM .
PAUL

Dr Strange

Hi Paul,

thanks for posting. Would be great to see some pictures of your collectors items. Best use some image storage site like imageshack, photobucket etc. to upload your pics.

Best,

Preusse

Dr Strange

Finally found some time to reply regarding Mick's helmets and the maker stamps.

As CroppyBoy already stated Q stands for Quist in Esslingen. They were quite successful in producing the helmets so that they obtained the contract to produce the steelhelmets for bordergueards and othe police in post-war West-Germany. Have a look at the helmets for these units (example: Bundesgrenzschutz) and you will see that they have retained almost exactly the M40 style of the war time production. Thale Werke was the main manufacturer though producing tons of the helmets.

The number behind the makers mark is, as CB mentioned, the shell size in metric (i.e. 62 cm). The head size would be different though as the interior liner has a different size (also in metric) stamped on it.

The numbers found in other parts of the helmets are the production numbers.

So for 0393 IS 64 the 0393 is the production number and the IS the maker and 64 the metric shell sice. I am not aware of IS as a maker. Could it read either FS or NS?

As for the helmet with the DN stamp that is actually a Quist production. The DN denotes a patent identification connected with the helmets type or model.

Best,

Preusse

Degsy

WW1 German Stahlhem with shrapnel damage

Degsy

Can anybody tell me where this is from,i put Jersey Garrison decals onto it to for the crack!

Degsy

French helmet recovered from field in the Marne area

Dr Strange

Nice pics degsy,

where did you find the German WWI helmet? Did you find the French helmet yourself?

As for the German WWII with the new SA Feldherren Halle decal on it I would need to see pics from the inside and particularly the stamps. It looks like it had been repainted.

Degsy

Preusse wrote: »

Nice pics degsy,

where did you find the German WWI helmet? Did you find the French helmet yourself?

As for the German WWII with the new SA Feldherren Halle decal on it I would need to see pics from the inside and particularly the stamps. It looks like it had been repainted.

Both the ww1 helmets were found by my brother-in-law (who's french) at a flea market in Troyes,apparantly they'd been dug up during ploughing work.I also have several other french helmets and "gamelles",a water bottle and a cup.Post pics wheni get a chance.The "ww2" helmet i bought in Millets several years ago,being told it was from the 1950's.There are no markings inside or out.

Dr Strange

Interesting.

Yes, the helmet looks like the post-war Quist production for Western Germany at the time.

Dr Strange

Hi degsy, nice collection. Have a look here at Military and police caps: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055176015

If you want post again there and I remove this from helmets.

Degsy

Preusse wrote: »

Hi degsy, nice collection. Have a look here at Military and police caps: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055176015

If you want post again there and I remove this from helmets.

can you move it for me please?

Dr Strange

Degsy wrote: »

can you move it for me please?

I have to find out how. I know how to move whole threads but single posts...hmm...time to use these new awesome mod powers methinks

Degsy

Preusse wrote: »

I have to find out how. I know how to move whole threads but single posts...hmm...time to use these new awesome mod powers methinks

feck it,leave em.If i've any more hat-related posts i'll post them in the other thread!

Dr Strange

Degsy wrote: »

feck it,leave em.If i've any more hat-related posts i'll post them in the other thread!

Nah, already done.

FiSe

Just small note, tons of WWII "German" helmets were used all over the Europe after the war, as a stop-gap solution for firebrigades, police, civil defence....
Many, maybe most, of them never saw the action and came out from the warehouses. And they were originaly painted in dark shades of grey-black, manufacturer pending .
I had a discussion about it recently with my friends, one of them removed the linen from one such a helmet used by Czech civil defence forces after WWII and, surprise, surprise, stamped "chicken" underneath.

/But hey, who cares. I, personally, wouldn't be too pushed to have the one and only original on my wall, but one have to be very carefull when buying one of these/

rabbit Stew

This is my Brodie as requested.
Got it as a present from the brother in law.







What do ye think?


(Sorry the images are so large, one of the mods might be able to sort it if necessary)

Dr Strange

Thanks for the pics rabbit stew!
Nice helmet. Particularly the condition.

Changed your pics to thumbnails.

Best,
Preusse

SpitfireIV

Wow, thats green alright, definately not a shade of green you're likely to find in the British army. Are you sure that isnt P&T issue too?

She seems in good nick!

rabbit Stew

Cheers lads,
The collection is small but growing i'll post some more pics as i'm sorting them out.

arnhem44

ok everybody these are my helmets,unfortunately the batteries in my camera went dead before i could get any close ups

Dr Strange

arnhem44 wrote: »

ok everybody these are my helmets,unfortunately the batteries in my camera went dead before i could get any close ups

A fine and diverse collection! Tell me, do you find that after a while you run out of room? I have that problem with some items. Thankfully, most are small enough.

SpitfireIV

arnhem44 wrote: »

ok everybody these are my helmets,unfortunately the batteries in my camera went dead before i could get any close ups

Wow, as Preusse said that some range of helmets there! Nice collection, tell us more, how long have you been collecting? Are these all purchases or some items given to you? Looking forward to seeing more pics of them.

I guess that No.4 is awaiting its guts

danpatjoe

arnhem44 wrote: »

ok everybody these are my helmets,unfortunately the batteries in my camera went dead before i could get any close ups

Great looking collection of lids!

I have only one in my collection, a german M42, which, like FiSe stated above, was used post-war by the Danish Civil Defence. It is stamped size ET66 and batch 2225 with original factory feldgrau paint but refitted with a Danish CD liner, splitpins and chinstrap. I purchased it for a display and replaced the split pins with original ones, it was the closest to a genuine item that I could afford at the time. I'll post pictures as soon as I get my imageshack registration sorted out.

Sorry to go off topic for a moment, but regarding your railroad eagle, can you start a new thread to give us a look at it both front and back? I've been looking for one of those for quite a while

- Dan

arnhem44

hello everybody,to answer a few of ye're questions,well i started off collecting the helmets but i just ran out of space in the end,i have quite a large collection of models and the helmets adorne the top of these shelves and sadly there now full,my brother has promised to let me have six more that he has,an early ww2 german helmet,sadly repainted,what he thinks is a british ww2 para helmet and four more modern issue helmets,he's one of the soldiers gone to Chad at the moment so i won't get my hands on these for another couple of months,the enfield has more parts but just not complete:(,however i think i would only draw trouble on myself if i took it futher with the way the law is.the german para helmet in the photo is a reproduction and some of the others would need attension,i will do my best to post some of them up here soon,as for the railway or building sign,again i'm afraid bought with every good intension as original but the guy i bought it from has sold many since,i can only imagine there made with an original mould as there is a sign of a makers mark on the back,this guy has one for sale the last time i looked only in what looks like bronze(or paint),£300 sterling i think,i paid 80 or 90 which was probarly to much but it does add to a display,i'll post photos of this also once i get a chance,i have some medals also if anyone wants to have a look,again some repos mixed in but most are original,thats the trouble buying from the internet,you just cant tell sometimes what its really like.

arnhem44

here are a couple of the helmets for viewing,i must retake them in a lower resolution,there taking forever to load up,the ww1 helmet is repainted so i decided to leave well alone and it also has a crack around two inches long on the top