New Marine

cichlid child

Ok setting up my first marine tank have looked up the other threads about this subject and have a few questions any advice would be great please. First of all i am going to take my time and get this right i dont mind if it takes 4-5 months i am in no hurry.i have a 4ft L*2ft W*(3ft H approx)tank i bought a skimmer,2*powerheads and live sand off a person that said that they are powerful enough (and enough sand) for the size tank.
Questions

Was told I don't need an external filter but, did a dry run out to a fish shop today and they said I need an external filter which will cost €260-€300. So do you think I need one, I don't mind if I do I just want to set it up right.

Has anyone used the organic marine stuff you can buy for starter tanks and then you buy treatments every so often, is this any good an how much does it cost for the treatments.

I also have a Fluval internal filter that I used when keeping Cichlids, could I put this in the tank also. I was looking at books today to set up Marine tank and they were €36/€40 but the 1st 2/3 chapters where how to make your own tank, so if anybody can suggest starter books or are selling 2nd hand books PM me, please.

And sorry for the long post.

Rippleman

HI,
I do not keep marines and know little about them but from what I have read an external filter would only be used for mechanical filtration and water circulation.

Apparently 'live rock' takes care of the biological filtration and can keep nitrate levels from rising whereas an outside filter used for biological filtration just produces nitrate:eek: Obviously in a marine setup you will not want nitrate present. The live sand you have will also help do the job but I think I read somewhere it has to sit on a 'plenum' which is a 'false bottom' type thing under the sand. I am sure you will get accurate info if you google it.

I think I am familiar with the 'organic marine stuff' you are talking about. If it is the same additive I am thinking of it will rapidly produce bacteria to keep the water fresh but is a different type of bacteria to the ones allowed to develop naturally by themselves and has a short lifespan... hence you have to buy more every month to keep the tank cycling. Personally I would go with the live rock option and a little patience. I have a feeling it may be both cheaper and more stable in the long run.

Another tip I picked up somewhere along the line is to have a LOT of water circulation in the tank so there are no ‘dead spots’ and water moves around the tank freely and constantly. This allows the live rock to fully process the water and keep it free of pollutants.

I hope this helps in some way and would advise not to take anything a salesman tells you as gospel:cool: After all, they are there to get you to spend as much money as you can afford... and then more!

If you do go for an external filter check out prices with different shops & look on EBay to get the best deal
Good luck with your new setup:)

reptileguy16

hi. i only set up a second marine tank today . i have more experience with marine tanks than i do with fresh water tanks as my first tank was marine. ur tank size is perfect for beginners. you would want two power heads to turnover ur tank volume at least once an hour each. the internal filter you have is fine. i personally dont use externall filters or even skimmers. i just use a good reliable internal filter, heater , light and powerheads. along with live rock coral sand an a cleanup crew. i will explan how to setup the tank in another post.

reptileguy16

the setting up part. you will need to buy sea salt from your lfs. put the correct amount of salt into the tank and add dechlorinated water. stir rapidly for roughly 10 mins until most of the salt is dissolved. plug in the filters and heater. and let run for roughly 24 hours. then when salt is completely dissolved test the salinity with a hytrometer. adjust if necessary. then pour 3/4 a large bottle of nutrafin cyle to the filter pads and the rest to the water. let sit for two days and then add pinch of food flakes to the filter pads this will start the nitrogen cycle. leave to sit for a week then add your live sand. add another small bottle of nutrafin cyle to water. and leave to sit for another week. stirring sand at a daily basis. test water for ph alkalinity amonia nitrite and nitrate. keep testing water until correct. when correct add live rock and a couple of starter fish ( green chromis ect. ) leave tank to sit for another week. then if fish are alright add your desired fish. good luck!. any qs justask

cichlid child

thanks lads its a bit daunting setting up your first marine and the shop sales bloke just confused me a bit.I have everything now but won,t start filling tank till nextweek when i have more time.

Rippleman

Hi reptileguy,
As you know I do not keep marines and never have but take an avid interest in all things aquatic. Having read extensively on the subject of marines, keeping track of the latest methods and successes and have over 20 years experience keeping and breeding freshwater fish. Over this length of time I have set up at least 100 tanks (I have lost count at this stage) and gained valuable experience that applies to all areas of fish keeping. Having said that: -

reptileguy16 wrote: »

add live rock and a couple of starter fish ( green chromis ect. )

I was under the impression that live rock had to cycle in the tank for about 2 weeks before any fish were added due to the dead animal matter in it which causes an ammonia and nitrite spike. Even if fish added at the same time as live rock were lucky enough to survive the ordeal it would leave them in a very distressed state with a reduced immune system and vulnerable to disease.

No more live rock can be added once fish are introduced unless it is fully cured/cycled in a separate tank until ammonia and nitrite tests read zero. It is better to add the full compliment of live rock at the start (expensive as this is) and leaving it to mature before deciding on which fish to stock.

Please correct me if you think I am wrong, but is the idea of having live rock in the tank not to act as the sole nitrification medium due to its ability to reduce nitrate to nitrogen gas which dissipates from the water, whereas a sponge filters (or any other type of medium that supports nitrifying bacteria) end product is nitrate which is poisonous to marine fish in any significant quantity

I am also certain that for the live rock to be efficient the turnover/water circulation had to be a minimum of 10 times the volume of the tank. Cichlid child has a 4’x2’x3’ tank with a water capacity of approx 600 litres, which would indicate a total turnover of 6,000 litres per hour. This should be achieved using several powerheads/pumps in different areas of the tank to ensure there is total water movement throughout the tank and no ‘dead spots’. Any internal/external filters used purely for mechanical filtration (and water circulation) with sponge/floss/activated carbon should be rinced out regularly to avoid any buildup of nitrifying bacteria on the medium.

Anyway, cichlid child, it is a very good idea for you to join one of the fish clubs if you live near one. You will find that some of the members have extensive experience and are more than willing to share their knowledge with you. Marines are a costly hobby and the more you can do to avoid pitfalls at the start the more enjoyment you will get.

You will find details of the clubs at http://www.irishfishkeepers.com along with a wealth of information in the forum including step by step guides to set up a marine tank from scratch.

Good luck with your new ‘baby’… Rippleman:)

reptileguy16

hi rippleman. sorry i forgot to mention about the cycling of the live rock thanks for pointing out that the live rock SHOULD be fully seeded before adding to the tank. the green chromis are just for a test for the water to see if it will be alright for the desired fish ( as horrible as it may seem i find it the best way to tell if your water will be kind to the main fish ). my new marine tank is just 1 foot but i love nano tanks and have experience with marines so it should be a fun project! the inhabitants will be a cleaner shrimp and a domino damsel. what fish do you keep?.

cichlid child

reptileguy16 wrote: »

live rock SHOULD be fully seeded before adding to the tank.
got it cheers lads

Rippleman

reptileguy16 wrote: »

the inhabitants will be a cleaner shrimp and a domino damsel. what fish do you keep?.

At the moment I keep livebearers, Gouramis, Tetras, Ancistris, Plecs, Corys, Loaches, freshwater shrimps, Rainbowfish and SA dwarf cichlids spread over 4 tanks & a 5th on the way.

cichlid child

cichlid child wrote: »

Ok setting up my first marine tank have looked up the other threads about this subject and have a few questions any advice would be great please. First of all i am going to take my time and get this right i dont mind if it takes 4-5 months i am in no hurry.i have a 4ft L*2ft W*(3ft H approx)tank i bought a skimmer,2*powerheads and live sand off a person that said that they are powerful enough (and enough sand) for the size tank.
Questions

Was told I don't need an external filter but, did a dry run out to a fish shop today and they said I need an external filter which will cost €260-€300. So do you think I need one, I don't mind if I do I just want to set it up right.

Has anyone used the organic marine stuff you can buy for starter tanks and then you buy treatments every so often, is this any good an how much does it cost for the treatments.

I also have a Fluval internal filter that I used when keeping Cichlids, could I put this in the tank also. I was looking at books today to set up Marine tank and they were €36/€40 but the 1st 2/3 chapters where how to make your own tank, so if anybody can suggest starter books or are selling 2nd hand books PM me, please.

And sorry for the long post.

sorry lads another question?
As from my ealier post this my first marine aquarium at this time it,s mostly research but i was half hoping to get it up and running before christmas the thing is live rock-i did not reckon it was so expensive so i have learned that in my tank the volume of water is approx 600L and i need 1k for every 3 litres of water.what with water replacment when you put the live rock in would i get with some ocean rock and 10kilo of live rock

Rippleman

Which type of setup are you aiming for?

Fish Only with Live Rock - FOWLR
Reef Tank

Reef tanks are more demanding and would not fare well if you cut corners.

FOWLR is a little less demanding and you could use a base of suitable unseeded rock, which will eventually become colonised, by the live rock sitting on top of it and thus increase the filtering capacity. Cheaper to start but you will have to have patience for the rock to seed and become 'live' before stocking to full density with fish.

Having said that it would seem (and as you know I am no expert!) that a minimum of 1 Kilo of live rock for every 8 Litres of tank capacity (do not take water displacement into account) is needed for the setup to run trouble free. This means that you will need a minimum of 75 Kilos of live rock for your 600l tank:eek:

I know if I was setting a marine tank up I would wait until I had enough money together to get the full compliment of live rock and a decent protein skimmer.

Did you check out http://www.irishfishkeepers.com ? You will find more knowledgeable people there to advise you.

cichlid child

Rippleman wrote: »

Which type of setup are you aiming for?

Fish Only with Live Rock - FOWLR
Reef Tank

Reef tanks are more demanding and would not fare well if you cut corners.

FOWLR is a little less demanding and you could use a base of suitable unseeded rock, which will eventually become colonised, by the live rock sitting on top of it and thus increase the filtering capacity. Cheaper to start but you will have to have patience for the rock to seed and become 'live' before stocking to full density with fish.

Having said that it would seem (and as you know I am no expert!) that a minimum of 1 Kilo of live rock for every 8 Litres of tank capacity (do not take water displacement into account) is needed for the setup to run trouble free. This means that you will need a minimum of 75 Kilos of live rock for your 600l tank:eek:

I know if I was setting a marine tank up I would wait until I had enough money together to get the full compliment of live rock and a decent protein skimmer.

Did you check out http://www.irishfishkeepers.com ? You will find more knowledgeable people there to advise you.

Thanks again rippleman i might just have to hold off and setup the tank with base rock and buying 2kilo of live rock per week and might look into the lighting so it will seed/grow quicker.it just means waitng till next june or so:eek:your right setting it properly is the best way.Maybe if your hear of anybody closing a system down maybe you could let me know
cheers again for all your help

Rippleman

cichlid child wrote: »

Maybe if your hear of anybody closing a system down maybe you could let me know

There is a 'for sale' section on the forum link I sent you and a few second hand systems have come up for sale lately. Keep an eye on it every day to catch a bargain before someone else gets it! Things usually sell fast.
Best of luck:)

j14

Hi Cichlid Child.

I have a 130 litre marine Nano running at the moment.
I would also recommend visiting www.irishfishkeepers.com as they really do know their stuff. Also if you need advice in person a trip to Aquatic Village in Brittas will sort you out, just ask for Alan, he's in the marine section.

I know there is a guy based in Dundrum on the irish fish keeper forum selling his live rock for €18 per kilo (look for posts by reefer in the for sale section, he also has marine equipment for sale eg power heads. I would try and put all the live rock at once as you will more than likely get ammonia spikes if you add pieces at different times.

Any more queries just ask.
J.