Irish Motorsport

Turlock

Hi,
Anyone know any good irish motor racing forums where the actual racers hang out? I'd like to get going but don't have a clue how much it costs or what class to go into so am looking for alot of pointers...

Any help appreciated

SouperComputer

I dont think there is a single resouce TBH. Best to have a look on motorsportireland.ie, choose the discipline you want to race and see if there is a club website.

As for costs, its not cheap, in any class or discipline if you plan running at the front consistantly.

nikimere

Another option for you to consider: http://www.legendsracinguk.com/ukhome.html
There is an Irish Legend Championship starting up in 2008. These cars are extremely cheap to run and great fun to race.
PM me for more details if your interested.

Turlock

Cheers for that lads! The legends don't really seem like my cup of tea (although I don't know yet)

Lightning can you give a rough break down of cost to run a formula vee car?

Cost for car?
Cost for tyres? (how often?)
Cost for race weekend?
Total sorta amount I should expect to pay for my first season?


Also how exactly do people get practice for racing? Do I just buy a vee and then turn up for a race with little or no track experience?

Cheers )

Turlock

Oh and last question, is it worth it?

SouperComputer

Turlock wrote: »

Oh and last question, is it worth it?

Yes, but its called the crying game for a reason. IMO legends win over Vees hands down!

nikimere

SouperComputer wrote: »

IMO legends win over Vees hands down!

Yep! And having driven both, the Legend is certainly the most fun. Probably the best race car i've ever driven! But i suppose it all depends on what it is your looking for... some people just prefer single seaters i suppose.

nikimere

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I just saw your post, on the link you posted its says that you could do a years racing including the car for around 20k sterling. What do you expect the costs for the Irish championship to be?

Something similar.
The car is about €20k for a brand new car. The good thing about the Legends is that the car retains it's value very well as there is no development etc... So a 5 year old car is exactly the same as a new one.
One set of tyres will last all season (and supposedly a second season too).
There are 6 race weekends in the year with either 2 or 3 races a weekend (depending on the number of cars, if we have more than 12 cars we will have 3 races).
Also the 1st 6 new cars sold get free entry fees and championship registration for the season (a saving of €2400).
Second hand cars range from €15k down to about €9k or €10k.
As far as running costs etc... very little. Fuel, break pads ever couple of races and the engine will need rebuilt at the end of every season (if you want to be competitive).

nikimere

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Grand thanks for the info, imho I hardly call them extremely cheap to run! For that money you could run a Vee and a Punto. Still they do look like good fun though. I`ll watch a race whenever the come to Mondello next.

All you need to run it is a few gallons of fuel... it isn't expensive to run.
They might be expensive to buy, but definitely not expensive to run.

Turlock

Cheers lads for all the help, you've no idea how helpful it is

Where could I buy a vee from?

Do I need a load of mechanical knowledge to keep it going?

What happens if you crash into someone?

SouperComputer

What happens if you crash into someone?

Not sure what you mean by this. You pay for the damage to your car, end of.

You wont need a load of mechanical knowledge to keep it going, but if you want to be competitive, you will want to either have someone run you that knows about car setup (Ie shocks, springs, tyre pressures etc), or educate yourself.

Not much point to this in your first season though. Maybe have someone work with you for the first test session to learn about the base settings and tyre pressures.

Personally, id rather be driving a gearbox kart than a vee, but thats another debate. I always get flack for this, but I think Vees look, sound and go like crap! The bug swing axle design doesnt help my respect level for them either!

If you are serious about racing, then remember on of the most important parts of the car is the nut holding the wheel. Ie., YOU!

These books can help you:

Inner Speed Secrets (Psychology)
Tune to Win. Hardcore racing & chassis physics
Fit for Motorsport

Some good reading for the winter.

Beekay

SouperComputer wrote: »

Personally, id rather be driving a gearbox kart than a vee, but thats another debate. I always get flack for this, but I think Vees look, sound and go like crap! The bug swing axle design doesnt help my respect level for them either!

Tut,Tut....don't be so harsh!:D:D:D

Hey Turlock. If you wanna get in contact with someone got to do with Formula Vee then try Paul Heavey, he builds the Leastone chassis which just won the 2007 championship. You can find contact details here...http://www.leastoneracing.com/

Beekay

LIGHTNING wrote: »

d)I think you get one free set from Dunlop.

Hey Roy, Nah they would never give a free set of Tyres unless you had very good contacts in dunlop!, I think thats a prize for the champion

Kersh

Even with Vees, You can make it as expensive as you like. Engines run from €2500 to €5000ish, The title was won this year with one costing the former. I recently sold the 2006 Vee C championship winning car for €6000 euro (brand new 1 race old engine in it - I finished 2nd and 3rd in it the weekend I sold it - probably why I managed to sell it). Tyres are about €600 a set, if you want to actually race the thing hard, you will use 2 sets. Testing is €130 per 1/2 day, and 230 per full day. Race entry is €200 euro per race. 10 races per year. So its running at about €400 euro per weekend including fuel (dont forget getting to the circuit too!) to run a Vee once you have the car and have new tyres on it.
Damage to your car is your problem, so if someone t -bones you... its your problem!! As are engine maladies etc etc.

Turlock

Cool, sorry for all the questions but I wouldn't mind getting a good FAQ going and stick it somewhere...

With regards sponsorship

How do you get it?
How do you approach people to sponsor you?
What do they give you as sponsorship? (e.g. tyres? Cash? helmets?)
Do many people have it?

Kersh

Aha.. the eternal question, if it was that easy we would all be in F3!
Essentially, most Irish racers are either Dad or "Relative with company" sponsored. I say most, but not all. Generally its easier to approach companies "cold" by having good results to crow about. You then have a commodity (your mobile billboard) to sell, if its at the front it gets noticed more etc etc. Its a bit of a circle really, thats very hard to get into. Start with a spotless car/overalls, and a good demeanour/presentation in and around the paddock, at least potential sponsors you might invite to a race see you have a clean car/good operation.
A company might give you the money to buy tyres, race entries etc, but you got to give them fully up to date race reports/photos/info throughout the year, maybe invite them to a race , which is where presentation comes in to it.
I started in 1999 with 1 car on a trailer, now its 3 looking at 4 cars next year plus a 6 berth camper and a truck (edit, 2 trucks and an extra team member!), all paid for by myself and my Dad, over the years, very little sponsorship at all, though I do put my Dads company name on the car just to give him something back, as he is there with me every race weekend. I must concede though, that I never bothered to go out looking for any sponsorship either ( way too busy with my job), but I do know that it is difficult, and you need lots of luck. Keep firing the questions in, and Ill kep answering them...............

Catcher86

Kersh wrote: »

Engines run from €2500 to €5000ish, The title was won this year with one costing the former.

Hey Kersh,

How come there is a market for engines costing €5000, if it is possible to win with a €2500 engine.

SouperComputer

WRT sponsorship, there are two angles.....

1) Someone you know wants to help you and or write off some expenses.
2) You can promote sales, increase brand awareness and have and well documented, structured plan on how you are going to acheive both for the sponsor.

The reality for most classes in motorsport is that the latter is very, very rare. Especially in Ireland as circuit racing gets so little coverage, and when it does, lets be honest, very few people watch it!

Still though as kersh said, you should put your best foot forward. Make yourself available and presentable for any media coverage that you can, try local newspapers as somtimes if you write your own article they will publish it. Always portray a profesional image in both yourself and your car's presentation. Your best bet, especially as a newcomer is from local businesses. Ultimately its about sales, so if you are'nt good at it, find someone who is!

Hey Kersh,

How come there is a market for engines costing €5000, if it is possible to win with a €2500 engine.

Because the engine is only one factor of many in peformance. Luck is handy to have too Aside from that, as the saying goes...... fools and their money.................

Kersh

A fool and his money.... , which will you buy????? Really, I dont know why or how.. there was a really lively discussion on ten-tenths.com a while back about this very subject... sure ill throw it up here.. Take some of the replies with a pinch of salt. But if you really want to spend a €5000 on one ill sell you one, with a handy profit for me :);)

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80302&highlight=vee

Catcher86

Thanks for the link Kersh.

Another queestion. I know there is a website for F Vee and F Sheane. But is there one for F5 and FF 1600.
Can you also tell me why F5 was introduced.

Kersh wrote: »

Damage to your car is your problem, so if someone t -bones you... its your problem!!

This seems like something that could be quite annoying, especially if there are some persistant offenders.
I am guessing that there is no insurance available, or if it is it is probably not worth it.

Kersh

Insurance is available, but not really worth it with a Vee, maybe for a new FF1600. I have hit as many people as have hit me over the years..!! Its just life, you get on with it. If you race 'cautiously' you will get no where, cetainly if you find some one like me behind you, as like most top racers I take no prisoners, and I will take every half chance you will ever present to me
F5 was introduced as Irelands only slicks and wings racing class, it will take a litle time to get the numbers up (as it did with F Sheane and all classes really), but now that the earlier reliability issues seem to have been resolved ( I finished all the races last year except 1 in the Park when I ran wide a few times and bent a pushrod), there should be some interest in it now, and they are quick, with restricted tyres/testing so you can only spend so much. The formula Ford section in www.ten-tenths.com should help , its in club racing. As yet there is no F5 site, but there will be for next year.

Scober11

There is a ff1600 site its @ ff1600.ie, the only problem is we need a webmaster to keep it updated, we have loads of news , info and results but no way of putting it up, anyone want to volunteer?

Catcher86

With regards vee/ff1600 what is the best mode of transport?
Do you need your own pickup truck. (Would they fit?)
Is there a way of arranging a way for someone to transport the car for you?

Kersh

With regards vee/ff1600 what is the best mode of transport? - trailer or truck.

Do you need your own pickup truck. (Would they fit?) - not that I have seen,

Is there a way of arranging a way for someone to transport the car for you? -I havent come across it but Im sure there are guys who would happily charge you for the privelege.

Most guys running their own car buy a trailer that will take the car, typically an Ifor Williams or Brian James a la....

www.westwoodtrailers.com

nikimere

Scober11 wrote: »

There is a ff1600 site its @ ff1600.ie, the only problem is we need a webmaster to keep it updated, we have loads of news , info and results but no way of putting it up, anyone want to volunteer?

Send the news to me and i'll put it on motorsport.ie at least it would be going somewhere

Turlock

Right from what I can read it seems like getting a vee going from scratch might be a few to much quid.

Would this be right?

Vee 4000 to 8000? (so probably about 6000)
Trailer ~500
Tyres 1200 for the season
Rebuild at end of season for about 2000
Suit = 300?
Plus petrol, race entries and any damages that need to be repaired

If so I'm thinking Uno's might be a bit cheaper to start with with only 2000 for the car, cheapo tyres and lack of a full rebuild needed. Maybe next season I could upgrade if I wanted to (uno's should hold their money right?)

Any Advice?

I'm thinking of renting a car and going to a testing day sometime, how much should I expect to pay to rent a) an Uno b) a Vee and what exactly am I liable for e.g. I rent the car but then have to get tyres on it, fill it with petrol, pay for any damage to it??

Cheers

Kersh

No, some of that is wrong...

Vee 4000 to 8000? (so probably about 6000) - correct
trailer ~500 - correct
Tyres 1200 for the season - correct
Rebuild at end of season for about 2000 - no, a new engine is €2500, a bearings only end of season rebuild is only about €400.
Suit = 300? - correct + helmet €400
Plus petrol, race entries and any damages that need to be repaired - correct.

If so I'm thinking Uno's might be a bit cheaper to start with with only 2000 for the car, cheapo tyres and lack of a full rebuild needed. Maybe next season I could upgrade if I wanted to (uno's should hold their money right?) - Car cost is the only difference. Running costs are the same for any class, you still need petrol/tyres/suit/helmet/race entries.. Remember a 2 grand Uno = a 4 grand Vee. A 3500 euro Uno = a 6 grand vee... keep the costs to scale.

Kersh

I'm thinking of renting a car and going to a testing day sometime, how much should I expect to pay to rent a) an Uno b) a Vee and what exactly am I liable for e.g. I rent the car but then have to get tyres on it, fill it with petrol, pay for any damage to it??

Ill Answer this bit separate...

If you want to test a car aound Mondello you will need your full race licence. This costs about €400 to get altogether IIRC. Kirkistown up North may not require a licence, but a team will charge you to drag the car up there...

What you get depends on the deal. If you want to arrive and drive you pay accordingly. If you want to bring your own petrol... then ask for that to be discounted.. if you want new tyres it will cost more etc etc
As for damage, you will be asked for a fairly substantial deposit, €2000 or so just in case you wreck it and want to leggit. Either cash or a blank cheque...
If you do damage it, you pay for it. Even if the engine lets go.. you pay for it....

No idea on UNO costs, but you wont see much change out of €800 to €1000 for a Vee. A good one that is... run properly.

Catcher86

Kersh wrote: »

With regards vee/ff1600 what is the best mode of transport? - trailer or truck.

The idea of a trailer hit me moments after posting.

First season costs seem to be the biggest hurdle.
Ranging from €10,000 - €12,000. ( For a Vee )
After that it seems to be about €4,000 - €6,000 per season.

I better start saving.