Ufc 77

The Sparrow

So perhaps we could discuss UFC 77 here?

I thought the show was pretty good but was let down by the Sylvia v Vera fight. Yet another crappy Tim Sylvia fight!

Obv the Silva fight has been discussed already. But I was thinking what about Dan Henderson against Silva? I think he would have a good chance as while Silva's ground game looks good it hasn't been tested too much and Henderson might be the man to do it. I hope Henderson drops down and they make that fight.

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote: »

Obv the Silva fight has been discussed already. But I was thinking what about Dan Henderson against Silva? I think he would have a good chance as while Silva's ground game looks good it hasn't been tested too much and Henderson might be the man to do it. I hope Henderson drops down and they make that fight.

Mike Sawyer on figure four said either on his show or the board that he saw Wanderlei Silva at the gym recently looking no more than 200lbs. Now that he's probably off whatever he was on in Japan (only a rumor of course!) I bet he could make 185. It's not likely but I wouldn't rule it out down the line.

I'd have no problem with GSP moving up to 185 and fighting Silva too. Again very unlikely but I'd love to see it.

Dragan

I can't really see Wandy cutting, he as too much at stake at 205.

The Chute Box guys are not like most fighters. They love to fight for a good reason, to defend there Team and to promote Brazil.

Wandy has wanted to fight Chuck for a LONG time now....they are both on two loses, nothing wrong with letting them scrap it out.

Alternative to that Wandy has expressed interest in fighting Griffin because Griffin beat Shogun. Wandy and Shogun are like brothers.....that would be a good fight as Wandy would be extra passionate about it.

I can't see GSP moving up because he has unfinished business at Welterweight. He doesn't care who he fights, he just wants that belt back. He lost it on his first title defence, George is a proud man and you know that hurts him.

Also, there is no real point in weakening one division just to strengthen another one. Bring in new talent i say! Also, Swick has been off and training hard, i expect solid things out of him when he comes back.

Fozzy

Since Henderson has said that he doesn't want to drop down, I can't really see it happening. There's more money fights for him in the light-heavyweight division. If he drops to middleweight then there's only Silva, and if he loses then his drawing power will suffer a lot

I didn't mind Sylvia's fight. I think he's great now. He does what it takes to win! Vera kept going into the clinch with him, it's Vera's problem if he can't do anything from there

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote: »

I didn't mind Sylvia's fight. I think he's great now. He does what it takes to win!

He sure does. And he goes the extra mile to be liked too! I think every guy in his corner had a Randy shirt on and he came out with the US flag. He also thanked the US troops fighting in Iraq and Saudi Arabia (probably meant Afghanistan). And still he gets booed. The poor guy just can't win.

Although he does have a new ploy. He wants to go after that "bully" "Cheich" Kongo. I love Tim Sylvia.

Dragan

Fozzy wrote: »

He does what it takes to win!

Including steroids. I just can't respect that. Hence my upset at Royce results and the my anguish over the Sherk appeal.

Vince135792003

Brock article summing the whole thing up:

White banking on Lesnar's success
By Dave Meltzer, Yahoo! Sports
October 25, 2007


For everyone who followed pro wrestling from childhood, there was always a lingering question: How would certain guys, not necessarily the biggest stars but the ones who are known by fans as real-life tough guys, do if the battle was real?

The question was more on people's minds during old-school pro wrestling's heyday than in recent years, largely because the Ultimate Fighter has answered a lot of questions about putting guys with different backgrounds into an arena and seeing what styles come out on top.

In the early days of the Ultimate Fighting Championship, many amateur champion wrestlers fared well simply through takedowns and the ability to control and keep opponents on their back.

But in today's mixed martial arts, you have to be a well-rounded fighter, with knowledge of wrestling or judo for balance, jiu-jitsu for submission awareness and avoidance, and both boxing and kickboxing techniques.

Brock Lesnar isn't coming to UFC to answer any age-old questions. He's coming because it's a sport he's watched since its inception, and now after more than a year of full-time training, after trying pro wrestling and pro football, he feels that it's the sport he was put on earth to participate in.

Lesnar, 30, who is expected to debut for UFC on Feb. 2 in Las Vegas against an opponent not yet named, is the most famous and likely the most expensive newcomer the UFC has ever signed.

"I've had one MMA fight, and he was a tuna can or whatever," said Lesnar about his debut, a fight on June 2, when he dismantled 1996 Olympic judo silver medalist Min Soo Kim of South Korea in a K-1 Hero's event at the Los Angeles Coliseum. "What I want to prove is Brock Lesnar should be taken seriously. This isn't a joke for me. I'm spending countless hours trying to learn every discipline, so when I step into the octagon, I'll be well prepared. I'm not setting myself up for defeat. That's not my mentality."

Lesnar beat Kim in just one minute, nine seconds, immediately taking him down, and knocking him out with punches from the top. Little was learned about the state of Lesnar's all-around game. What was learned is Lesnar is incredibly quick for his size, which anyone who saw him wrestle amateur already knew, and he has an explosive takedown.

We also learned he has natural punching power when on top of his opponent on the ground. The velocity of his short punches on top were said by ringside onlookers to be similar to Fedor Emelianenko.

As for the rest of his game, those questions are yet to be answered. We know he's fast. We know he's strong. We know he's a disciplined athlete and a hard trainer. Can he take a punch or block a kick? Is his overall striking game good? Can he avoid submissions? Can he apply submissions?

Some hearing that a former World Wrestling Entertainment champion is coming into UFC would automatically jump to the conclusion that it's a freak-show attraction and nothing more than a gimmick to sell tickets.

They would be partially correct. It is a ploy to sell tickets, but as a national heavyweight champion in junior college in 1998, and NCAA Division I champ at Minnesota in 2000, Lesnar's athletic ability can't be questioned.

He brings to the table more than wrestling credentials. He's a freak as an athlete. His combination of size, strength and speed is on the level of an NFL first-round draft choice. But none of that guarantees he'll be a great fighter.

Several previous NCAA champions have entered MMA with mixed results. Randy Couture (Oklahoma State) and Matt Hughes (Eastern Illinois) became legends. Lesnar's freestyle wrestling is better than Couture's, and he's a guy who cuts weight to make the 265-pound weight limit, a huge heavyweight as opposed to a small heavyweight trying to use wrestling to manhandle bigger foes.

But many wrestlers haven't fared as well. And while you can talk about his college wrestling all day long, the fact is, he's in UFC this early and getting a two-year contract because he can wrestle and because he was a star in pro wrestling. K-1 paid him $500,000 on the books for his debut, and every MMA group looking to make itself a name had to have interest in him.

Lesnar was only one facet of a news conference held Thursday by the company and headed by company president Dana White, covering a multitude of issues, including signing a new three-year contract with Spike TV, the failure to reach a deal with HBO, and the present and future of Couture.

"Brock Lesnar is the real deal," White said. "He's a young guy, athletic, great credentials and he's done the right things to make the transitions. Guys I know who are training with him say he's going to be a great fighter."

Lesnar walked out on the WWE in 2004, shortly after signing a new $1 million-per-year guaranteed contract through 2010 because he grew to hate the arduous travel schedule. And, in the back of his mind, he wanted to play pro football before the window of opportunity closed. After never playing the sport since high school, he asked the WWE to let him out of his contract, saying he wanted to play in the NFL. WWE agreed, but in his release papers, the company decreed he couldn't participate in either pro wrestling with a rival organization, or MMA, anywhere in the world for the duration of the contract.

Lesnar went to the Minnesota Vikings camp and played in several preseason games in 2004 before being a late cut. But the Vikings were impressed enough to recommend him for NFL Europe, but one of the key reasons he left wrestling was that he was never home to see his family, in particular his young daughter, and his wife, former well-known wrestling personality and Playboy cover model Rena "Sable" Mero. Plus, he now admits, he was relieved the day he was cut. He was so far behind when it came to football that he realized it wasn't for him.

"You have to feel confident and I didn't," Lesnar said about his brief NFL experience. "I realized I was unprepared at the Vikings training camp. I was thinking to myself, 'What am I doing here?' Because of my lack of experience, I felt it wasn't for me."

The next problem was his WWE release. He began wrestling in Japan, even though the release prohibited it, leading to a lengthy court fight. He argued that the WWE was keeping him from making a living during the prime of his athletic life.

In the settlement, Lesnar was allowed to do basically anything he wanted to do. Although he doesn't talk bad about WWE today, Lesnar said he liked the wrestling itself, just grew to despise the travel and didn't like what it was doing to his body.

In MMA, Lesnar says he has found his true calling. Time and circumstances simply didn't allow it to happen until now.

"I've never felt fighting isn't for me," he said. "It's come fast and feels natural. People who have been around like Pat Miletich, Sean Sherk and Greg Nelson (his current main trainer) have all said this comes naturally to me, and it's nice to hear that from people of that caliber."

Lesnar feels the difference between him and college wrestling stars who didn't make it in MMA is that he knows that college wrestling alone will never make him UFC champion. Instead of concentrating his training on what he does best – his wrestling – his focus is on the other aspects of the sport.

"I know and understand my wrestling capabilities aren't going to make me a champion in this sport," he said. "I train wrestling, but I spend more time training my hands and training jiu-jitsu.

"My No. 1 goal is to win my first fight, and work my way to being heavyweight champion."

Lesnar was 55-3 in two years at Minnesota after being 51-2 at Bismarck Junior College. He finished second in the Division I tournament to Stephen Neal in 1999, who ironically accomplished what Lesnar didn't in becoming an NFL player (with the New England Patriots) without playing high school ball. In 2000, Lesnar was NCAA champion.

Largely because of his physique and natural power, several pro wrestling organizations were interested in him. Lesnar had already decided he wasn't going to pursue the Olympics. MMA was near death at this point, and as much as he wanted to do it a few years earlier, he didn't consider it an option.

After winning the championship, he decided he had three viable options. He could stay in college one more year, get his degree, and play football for the Golden Gophers. He could join the WWE, which offered him $250,000 guaranteed per year to start, an almost unheard of figure for somebody who had never worked their way up the ranks. Or he could try out for the NFL, as Tony Dungy, then coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and a Golden Gophers alum, recruited him after watching him dominate on the college mats.

"I was a kid from South Dakota who didn't have two nickels to rub together and the WWE deal was a sure thing," he said. "They guaranteed me the money and football only offered me a tryout. I chose WWE. But I always regretted I didn't at least do the tryout first."

White said he was going to heavily market Lesnar's debut to the pro wrestling audience.

"I think a lot of people are going to be curious to see if he can really fight," said the UFC president. "He's an athlete capable of fighting. Not to say the rest of them (pro wrestlers) aren't athletes. I think a lot of WWE fans are going to tune in to see if this guy can really fight."

White acknowledged that he never had any interest in using pro wrestlers, although he did negotiate with Kurt Angle, an Olympic gold medalist before going pro, in the past.

UFC also announced the signing of a three-year contract renewal with Spike TV, that gives the network cable exclusivity on the product through 2011. The contract calls for two seasons of Ultimate Fighter in 2008 and 2009, and one each in 2010 and 2011. It also calls for a weekly live TV fight that would debut in 2010. It also calls for a minimum of four UFC Fight Night specials, a similar schedule as the current deal, as well as 13 new episodes per year of UFC Unleashed.

The agreement would allow UFC to negotiate a deal with a broadcast network or a premium channel like HBO, but not a rival cable channel like ESPN.

White also bent over backward to praise Couture, noting he still considers him heavyweight champion and no matter what has happened, is looking to settle things with him.

"The title isn't vacant until Randy Couture tells me face-to-face he's retired," White said. "Randy Couture is a guy I have a ton of respect for. I'm going to try and work this out."

Dave Meltzer covers mixed martial arts for Yahoo! Sports. Meltzer, who has published the pro wrestling trade industry publication the Wrestling Observer Newsletter since 1982, began covering MMA with UFC 1 in 1993. He is a graduate of San Jose State University, and has written for the Oakland Tribune, Los Angeles Times, and The National. Send Dave a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

ShawnRaven

I'm really hoping Dana isn't putting all his eggs in one basket. He's already proved that he's fairly pissed over not being able to sign Fedor. I'm just hoping that he doesn't think he can compensate using Brock. What's Lesnar's win/loss record again?

VR!

The Sparrow

validreasoning! wrote: »

What's Lesnar's win/loss record again?

VR!

1-0

ShawnRaven

Thank you very much, exactly what i had thought.
Now compare that undefeated streak to Fedor's one! Sorry Dana, but you might wanna be careful here

VR!

Bubs101

But Brock's is nice and easy to remember.

On another note, the Brock move is a masterplan by UFC. I have never shown any real interest in UFC before apart from watching on Zaga match with a kick knock-out and that was only due to him having a name stunningly similar to my school but now with Brock in it, my interest is piqued.I wouldn't be surprised if he started to climb out of the cage for old times sake

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

But Brock's is nice and easy to remember.

On another note, the Brock move is a masterplan by UFC. I have never shown any real interest in UFC before apart from watching on Zaga match with a kick knock-out and that was only due to him having a name stunningly similar to my school but now with Brock in it, my interest is piqued.I wouldn't be surprised if he started to climb out of the cage for old times sake

Would take a grand total of about 2 seconds, the UFC cage really isn't that high.

Would still be funny to watch, Because if it was, for instance, Brock v Fedor. Brock would not only climb out of the cage, but he'd probably run for his life!

VR!

Vince135792003

Dana has got to be very careful and even then there are no guarantees.

In saying that, Brock has gone about it the right way. He hasn't rushed into the cage and with his amateur experience he has bundles of potential. In terms of name value too, Brock easily beats Fedor.

Fedor was on ppv with Matt Lindland a year ago and it did 12,000 buys or something ridiculously small. Now if UFC got him, they could really hype him up. But with Brock, the foundations are already there.

Bubs101

I assume that any wrestler who made the jump would automatically become one of the bigger draws

Vince135792003

Bubs101 wrote: »

I assume that any wrestler who made the jump would automatically become one of the bigger draws

Well, the first time sure, for the novelty. It would also be the kind of thing that if the UFC did it all the time (not that they will), it could seriously backfire on them long term. But Brock is different in that he's one of the few pro-wrestlers that has to the potential to kick on from being just a novelty draw.

The Sparrow

If I was Dana White, I would sign Brock Lesnar over Fedor everytime. The simple truth about MMA and pro-wrestling is that they are all about drawing money and Brock is a much bigger draw than Fedor in the UFC's core market.

I think the signing of Brock is much more important for the UFC than signing Fedor would ever be. And I think Brock will do just fine if he has a little time to get his bearings. If, as we are led to believe, he has been training properly for a year then i think if he gets another year to get experience against lower level fighters then by this time next year he will be ready for almost anybody in the heavyweight division. I mean its hardly the most stacked division. Besides Noguiera I don`t see anyone to worry Brock too much if he has enough time to get experience.

nacho libre

I'm eager to see can he take a punch. I mean you can be a very strong and quick guy - which he is - yet if you have a glass jaw you won't get very far...
Anyway, there is always TNA to go to if it doesn't work out for him in mma.

Without getting into too much of a discussion here, that was agreat fight by sylvia. I was really impressed by him.

ShawnRaven

Sylvia?? You do realise we're talking about Tim Sylvia? A guy who stinks up the octogon every chance he gets?

You sure you're not confusing him with Anderson Silva?
VR!

The Sparrow

I`d be pretty sure he meant Anderson Silva... either that or he Dre as in Dray needs to book an appointment with an optician!:D

Mhmm...weetabix

woooo232 wrote: »

I think the signing of Brock is much more important for the UFC than signing Fedor would ever be.

No Offence but thats crazy talk, how can you say that the hottest free agent in MMA wouldve been a lesser signing then Brock Lesnar. Your talking about a dominant force in the sport compared to a guy with celebrity status and alot of POTENTIAL, he's not been tested yet. You also have to take into account that the biggest draw for the UFC in Randy Courture wont fight anyone apart from Fedor because he wants the best in the world and you have to see that your opinion makes no sense apart from possibly winning over a few more fans of the pro wrestling market which in itself has been tapped in the states. Basically the UFC loses out more by not signing Fedor, it doesnt matter that they signed Brock.
In saying that I hope it works out and Brock can live up to the potential. My only other fear is that it could work out too well and Dana White then tries to have Brock V Angle (eventhough he's my favourite WRESTLER of all time) in the Ufc. The spike tv links between Tna and Ufc make it an even more possible situation, THAT would suck and just turn the Ufc into a circus.

ShawnRaven

I'd be inclined to agree here. Fedor is a bigger deal than what he's credited for. Fedor is a tried and tested MMA competetor. Lesnar has a win/loss record of 1-0 and he's been put on the MMA pedestol already? Because he had a successful Pro-Wrestling career? Nah, let's be realistic here.

This isn't 1997 when Ken Shamrock came over to WWE Shamrock had years of experience in UFC before that happened. Brock is NCAA Champion, fair enough, but that doesn't mean you can just go into a new organisation and think you can rule the school. Something Brock has a big problem understanding (his NFL "career" anyone?). Brock is making a big mistake pointing out the obvious, that "Pro Wrestling is fake and he wants out while he's still alive", forgetting that Pro Wrestling pretty much made him who he is today.

It's one thing being confident, another thing to be a complete dick. Personally i hope Brock gets his head knocked off him, but if Dana is smart, he won't let that happen.

VR!

Bubs101

Lesnar is more important as he draws viewers away from UFC's main rival, profesional wrestling. From a buisness stand point, it's a great move

ShawnRaven

If Brock had not faded into obscurity from 2004-2007 with the exception of popping up in the Brock v Vince trials and whining interviews in between, i'd agree. But Vince already tried that with Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn (the latter who had already experience in the Pro Wrestling field) and it didn't work.

I see where you're coming from, but if thats what Dana was trying for, he left it three years too late.

VR!