The Future - some realism please

Requiem4adream

Ok Stan is gone - forget that for a minute. Who succeeds him - put that aside for a sec....

Here's the crux of the argument for me: what is a realistic expectation to have for the Irish senior team over the next 5 year period? With the current crop of players and young players coming through , what do people see as realistic aims?

I think the next manager should be judged and assessed within the context of these expectations. The mandate the next man will receive from the FAI will no doubt be to qualify for the World Cup. Is that a fair/just expectation to be judged by? I'm not so sure myself....

How many current world class players do we have? 0? Shay Given can barely hold his spot at Newcastle, Duffer is constantly injured or nowhere near his best, Robbie Keane is scintilating for Spurs and looks like a headless chicken for Ireland, Richard Dunne is collossal for City, Steve Finnan IMO is a class act, Kevin Doyle is a good striker. None of them fall into the World Class bracket, nor the bracket just below.

How many of the new generation are potential world class? 0? I cant think of any young players who rivalled the sense of anticipation and hope that we had for Duffer, Robbie etc when they were 17.

The key for Ireland is to get the best out of the players at their disposal. Greece proved that it is possible to make limited resources/limited players a successful team. I've no doubts that in a favourable group draw for the World's we should put in a much better showing ....

At the end of the day, the relative glory days of irish football are over for now. Hoping/expecting to qualify for every tournament is surely a rose-tinted dream.

It doesn't matter. Only a quarter final place in a world cup will secure an Irish manager his job. Anything else will be seen as a failure. imho.

Dont be at yourself

A lot will depend on the group we're drawn in for the World Cup qualifiers. Regardless of current form, Ireland should not be ranked the 35th team in the world. We might not have truly world class players - but how many countries do?

We do have proven, reliable strength across most positions, as well as abundance of promising, if raw, young talent. The success of the national team will depend on the integration and development of this new generation of players.

Shay Given is still one of the best keepers in the world, and would walk into most national teams.

Dunne is solid defender, McShane is promising. The full-back positions are a little worrying, especially if Finnan retires.

In midfield, the perpetually off-form Duffer aside, we have no world-class players. We have lots of players of a similar level battling for places, all of whom can do a job. We're a little light on defensive midfielders, but our attacking options in the likes of Ireland, Reid, Hunt and McGeady are good.

Keane is banging them in for Spurs, and hopefully the new manager can help him transfer his club form to Ireland. The emergence of decent options along-side Keane in the likes of Doyle will hopefully help in this.

I don't expect us to win the world cup with the squad we have, but we have the talent to do well. The biggest challenge facing the new boss is not going to be getting the team to play well, it's going to be trying to get the team out of the hole (in terms of seeding and ranking) that they've dug themselves in over the last few years.

kryogen

i think we do have a world class player, shay given is a world class goalkeeper, its just my opinion but i really think if he was english he would be hailed as one of the real greats of the game, he very rarely if ever puts a foot wrong.

we dont have a strong base of talent at the moment, i think qualification is a must though, we have enough to make it to the finals of a major tournament, with the right manager i think its a realistic possibilty. im skeptical about whether we will get the right manager though. highly skeptical

Bounty Hunter

the reason i think we could actually get a good manager is because after Stans reign peoples expectations now will be realistic (lowered) and it will be hard to look bad after the current campaign. When the world cup quals draw is made it will be easier to say what we expect but no matter how lucky/unlucky we get when said draw is known we should atleast be competing for qualification. nobody should think anymore that Ireland will def qualify but we have to be competitive and hope that we can once again be the overachieving underdogs we used to be.

Mr.Nice Guy

I think it's realistic to expect that we give a competitive showing in our group. If you look at Scotland, even if they don't qualify they can be proud of giving the French and Italians a run for their money. We should be looking to set a similar standard in my opinion.

Mitch Connor

A good showing in the WC groups is the least I would like to see.

After not qualifying for 2006, and our poor showing this time around, our seeding for the next round of WC qualifiers is going to be poor, possibly 4th seeds. The group we get is likely to be very tough. So the least I would like to see is an Ireland team that looks like it knows what it is doing and shows commitment and passion on the pitch. I want to see steady improvement in performances (as opposed to going backwards under stauntan), so we can build for future qualifying campaigns by improving our ranking and seeding.

eirebhoy

The fact that I didn't think Kerr should have got sacked shows that I don't expect the team to qualify for everything. I want a manager that really knows the game, who'll experiment outside the 4-4-2 and focus on a good passing game.

CountryWise

Requiem4adream wrote: »

How many current world class players do we have? 0? Shay Given can barely hold his spot at Newcastle,

Thats a ridiculous thing to say, he has been Newcastle Number 1 for many years and only lost his poition after a long injury, and the reason he was left out when he was fit again in my opinion is so that he would recover 100%.
Also he doesnt put a foot wrong for ireland and only for him id say Stan would have been gone earlier....did you see the Nicosia mess without him?

But back on topic i think qualification has to be the goal, even if we dont get there it has to be the goal, i see too many teams at Euro and WC finals that Ireland are capable of beating and think "Why arent we there"

whatawaster

No Matter who we draw for the WC group stages, we can qualify. And we can do well at the WC/EC as well. Look at 2002. We were without possibly the best player Ireland has ever produced, and we got to the last 16. We played some great football, and were desperately unlucky not to beat them. Then it would have been a very winnable game against Korea, and only a semi-final against an ageing German side would have been between us and the final. I know this is all well and good looking back, but I think it shows what is Possible.

Look at the team that played against Spain in 02

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Given

---

Finnan

---

Breen

---

Staunton

---

Harte

Kelly

---

Holland

---

Kinsella

---

Kilbane

---

Keane

---

Duff

---

Is that really better than what we can put out now? I don't think so. The difference is that they had a manager who instilled belief, motivated and organised them. McCarthy had his critics, but he was a good manager in my opinion. And there are other good managers out there and if we are smart and get one of them, then I don't see why are World Cup Quarter Final is beyond us.

PS: I Wish we still had one of Holland or Kinsella at their best. We could use that extra something in Midfield.

jameshayes

I dont see much of a future for Irish football -Because of the "fans", not the players/managers - as soon as they lose a game the pitchforks will come out.



'Edit - added inverted commas arround fans'

LostinBlanch

I'm with Eirebhoy and Mr Nice Guy. I don't expect to win the World Cup or Euros, and I don't think anyone here does either. :rolleyes:

I know the level of talent of the squad and have adjusted my expectations accordingly. They go something like this.

FAI / Outside advisers

• FAI / Ex professional footballers / outside advisers panel to choose someone who can actually manage a football team successfully. I don’t have any ideas who this is at the mo and it doesn’t matter to me where they come from.

Manager

• A manager who knows how to manage a football team, has a defined game plan, can communicate this effectively to the squad and get them to play to it. It’d be great if it included attacking football and didn’t just concentrate on a long ball game.
• Someone who has the tactical nous to understand how to change things if they aren’t working
• The manager to be allowed to manage without interference from anyone in the FAI etc.
• Someone who has the guts to drop players if their not performing no matter who they are. Are you listening Robbie?
• Someone who will pick players and play them in their right positions.
• Someone who will treat people (players, supporters, press etc) as adults and say things as they are; not come out with tired old clichés such as “We have the best fans in the world so we do” and think that’s going to satisfy the fans.

The squad
• Players who conduct themselves professionally both on and off the pitch (while they’re with us anyway).
• Players who can follow instructions on and off the pitch.
• No guaranteed places on the team. If players are dropped then I’d like them accept responsibility for bad performances and then to work twice as hard to get back into the team instead of whinging to Cathal Dervan or whoever.
• All players to give their all on the pitch. Proper performances instead of the San Marinos and Cyprusses rubbing we have had to endure.
• Finally Robbie Keane to get fined every time he starts whinging and waving his arms at the ref instead of concentrating on playing.

The press:
• Not to carry on any personal agendas to the detriment of the team. FWITW I don’t think there are any agendas here at the moment. Despite what some FAI spin doctors are implying, .Staunton was given a chance but it became obvious very soon that he was woefully out of his depth. The press by and large were just saying what a lot of people were thinking.

The fans
• Turn up and support the team as we do. It’d be nice if we got a chance to get more tickets though!

Well there’s my tuppence worth. I think if we had that or most of it, then we'd have a chance of playing to our best. People would accept that, and if we qualified well and good. If not well at least we wouldn't be anything like the embarrassment we have been over the last 2 years.

SectionF

It's difficult to argue that we cannot realistically expect great things from our football team, because that is what people want. Eamon Dunphy and others make a living priming our expectations, the better to knock down managers when performances don't match.
No one wants to take on that strident and completely out of place chauvinism, because when they do they are pilloried as accepting failure. It makes for good television, and good copy for shouty sports columns, but not good planning.
It's time to face it. We have been piggy-backing on English football for decades (Ooh look! Our goalie plays for Newcastle!) and now we do not have a viable domestic infrastructure at senior level.
We are a nation that supports football in other countries, and GAA at home. We are minnows. Get used to it, and, as the last option suggests, start building... from the roots.

loyatemu

a well organised team and a tactically astute manager should be able to make a good fist of qualifying for the WC. As our last 2 qualifying campaigns have shown, there are very few really good teams in Europe. If we fail to qualify because we've been drawn against 2 teams who are patently better than us then fair enough, but I want us to at least give a good account of ourselves.

prendy

i like most people on here dont expect too much from whoever takes over but i do expect to never have to watch performances like cyprus*2 and san marino again.
because of the seedings its going to be tough to qualify but i would like to see sufficient results to improve seedings for the following campaign.
IMO if we qualify thats a bonus.

thebman

loyatemu wrote: »

a well organised team and a tactically astute manager should be able to make a good fist of qualifying for the WC. As our last 2 qualifying campaigns have shown, there are very few really good teams in Europe. If we fail to qualify because we've been drawn against 2 teams who are patently better than us then fair enough, but I want us to at least give a good account of ourselves.

I agree completely.

A good manager can make an average side play well. Getting the players to work together well will give us a good chance against most sides.

As opposed to a poor manager who can make an average side look pathetic which is what we've had at the moment.

Andrew 83

Should be qualifying for most major tournaments.

yom 1

LostinBlanch wrote: »

The fans
• Turn up and support the team as we do. It’d be nice if we got a chance to get more tickets though!

I agree with that 100%. When Kerr was in charge I was at almost every home game over the course of about 3 years including friendlies. Then the biggest game of the campaign came along against France and I couldnt get a ticket for love nor money as all the corporate fat cats who hadnt been at a game in years took there corporate tickets and the ordinary fans were screwed over. I know they need the corporate money but there has to be a happy medium especially for the bigger games so that the genuine fans get to go to them.

mewso

Nobody expects to win the world cup but I'd like to see a team that believes it can compete to a standard that would be deserving of winning a world cup.

I ticked a good competitive showing in the group because that at the least is a realistic expectation but a good manager should be able to achieve more imo.

I just want to enjoy watching Ireland play again. See them go out with no other intention but to win a game. See them go for a second and third goal when they are 1-0 up and not defend a slender lead. Not to be talking about goal difference because we only beat that mediocre team 1-0 while everyone else put 5 past them.

All this talk of world class players. Forget about that. How many world class players are there? Do we need world class players to qualify for a major championship? Maybe to win one.

JimiTime

jameshayes wrote: »

I dont see much of a future for Irish football -Because of the "fans", not the players/managers - as soon as they lose a game the pitchforks will come out.



'Edit - added inverted commas arround fans'

That is entirely unfair. We have some of the best fans in the world. This is the first time I've seen the boos happen. When we went out of the world cup against spain, all of the irish sang. Appreciating, the heart, the effort and the good showing they had without their most influencial player. The 'fans' as you call them, will not be sharpening pitchforks when we loose. However, if after 2 years, the team looks in terrible shape, regardless of results, then they have every right to voice their concern. We love our football, and its heartbreaking to see our national side fall so far. It was obvious, and i had it on good authority, regardless of what the players said, that stan was a rank Amateur, who needs to serve his time or at least get his badges before he takes on such a huge role such as manager of an international side!

eirebhoy

No set of fans in the world would have tolerated a guy like Staunton in charge. He got off very lightly with us.

Gillie

jameshayes wrote: »

I dont see much of a future for Irish football -Because of the "fans", not the players/managers - as soon as they lose a game the pitchforks will come out.



'Edit - added inverted commas arround fans'

Don't agree with that.

We (The "Fans") have been extremely patient and loyal throughout this farce!
We deserve better.

aidan24326

musician wrote: »

All this talk of world class players. Forget about that. How many world class players are there? Do we need world class players to qualify for a major championship? Maybe to win one.

Well this is the whole point. You certainly don't need a bunch of superstars to qualify. Standards have evened out in international football. In 2004 Greece even managed to win a major tournament with not one big star in their team, just good old fashioned German-style organisation and utilising the players they had to the maximum through good management.

Scotland are still in contention going into their last game despite having a much harder group than us and with players that are really no better than what we have. They're just better managed and are playing with the sort of spirit that Irish teams were always known for.

Even with the players we currently have a good manager with a good well-disciplined and organised setup could most certainly get us to SA 2010 even with a difficult group. We could get a hard group due to seeding but even the big teams are beatable nowadays, especially when you play them at home, Italy will not relish going to Hampden that's for sure.(should be a cracker that one)

I voted for 'playoffs in world cup group', definitely achievable with the right setup in place.

Prufrock

Ireland can give anyone a game on their day. A lot will depend on the manager. He has to motivate and organise his team. We may not have the most talented players in the world but organisation and effort are free.

If we get those right I think qualification the World Cup and European Championships are a possibility. I mean why not? Look at Greece. Look at Northern Ireland. Look at England . Ok maybe not the last one. But weaker teams can beat better opposition.

smemon

Here's how it should be.

Campaign to campaign contract for the manager, with bonuses for qualifying.

Fail to make the playoffs or come close and you're out. That's the way it should go.

No nonsense, no long term contracts, you fail to get results and you're gone.

None of this building for the future crap. That's why Staunton was essentially gone before he even took charge by making excuses like 'we're building for the word cup campaign' or something to that effect.

We need a manager who can scream and shout and give everyone a kick up the backside. Someone who will kick a water bottle AT the players, not aimlessly down the touchline.

We haven't had one since Charlton. Keane (the legendary one) did that job under McCarthy and to an extent under Kerr..

Players are like employees. If a boss is an easy touch, they'll turn up late, go for breaks when they feel like it, not put in 100%. If you get a boss who'll smash your face in if you do that, all of a sudden we have order, routine and 'fear'. Come in late and you fear being 'caught'.

That's what's missing from the Irish setup. The players won't like it, but tough, that's work. That's life. If we're to become a powerhouse in football (like we showed signs of doing pre-2002 saipan), we have to start acting like one and putting in the work.

Get rid of the manager = coach theory, and go back to the manager = boss theory.

prendy

Fail to make the playoffs or come close and you're out. That's the way it should go.

No nonsense, no long term contracts, you fail to get results and you're gone.

And what manager do you think will take a contract like that?? it looks like were going to be badly seeded for the world cup draw so chances of qualification are reduced.

smemon

prendy wrote: »

And what manager do you think will take a contract like that?? it looks like were going to be badly seeded for the world cup draw so chances of qualification are reduced.

Doesn't matter. Lay it on the table in black and white, attach those terms and see who's interested.

Here you go, do whatever you want and we'll be back to you at the end of the campaign. Get a playoff or come close and we'll renew the contract.

Seeds mean nothing. In fact, being bottom seed is probably an advantage as it means we're underdogs going in to every match and that's suits Ireland as we can't win matches we're expected to win.

So if we're expected to lose them all, we'll win them all. The problem is that expectations are still at pre-2002 world cup level. We played decent football, had a real chance to go further than ever before and that attitude has stayed with the fans, but not with the players/management.

That's down to messing about with managers and chopping and changing teams over the past few years.

We see the likes of Scotland, Greece, even our Northern brothers knocking on the door, so the old excuse of 'we don't have the players' is rubbish.

The reality is we have the players on paper. Given, Finnan, O'Shea, Dunne, Keane - 5 regulars with vast experience at the top level for their clubs.

So that's almost half a team, which should be capable of 'leading' the others. But it's not happening and that's because those 5 aren't team players. They need someone to do the talking for them.

We all see Dunne pointing fingers and Keane mouthing off, that's just for show.. it's not real.

Savman

World Cup Qualification has to be the goal. If the Scots can get within one game of Euro08 with their resources we shouldn't accept anything less.

Although if we lose out on WC qualifying in the final game or whatever and there's a good enough reason we don't make it or "almost make it", fair enough.

The fans just want to see honesty of effort.

joe123

JimiTime wrote: »

That is entirely unfair. We have some of the best fans in the world. This is the first time I've seen the boos happen. When we went out of the world cup against spain, all of the irish sang. Appreciating, the heart, the effort and the good showing they had without their most influencial player. The 'fans' as you call them, will not be sharpening pitchforks when we loose. However, if after 2 years, the team looks in terrible shape, regardless of results, then they have every right to voice their concern. We love our football, and its heartbreaking to see our national side fall so far. It was obvious, and i had it on good authority, regardless of what the players said, that stan was a rank Amateur, who needs to serve his time or at least get his badges before he takes on such a huge role such as manager of an international side!

couldnt of said it better by myself

Jonny Arson

get rid of Delaney and his cronies
get a decent manager
blood some new players - build for the future
invest more and more time, effort and money in youth structures and coaching
take the Eircom League seriously

if this country has an association that does all this then and cares for the game there can be hope for the future but i believe too much damage is already done for the Irish national team to be seriously expecting to qualify for WC 2010 and Euro 2012. Ireland has decent players but not great players and i'm not seeing many prodigies coming through the youth ranks.

my2c

patmac

JimiTime wrote: »

That is entirely unfair. We have some of the best fans in the world. This is the first time I've seen the boos happen. When we went out of the world cup against spain, all of the irish sang. Appreciating, the heart, the effort and the good showing they had without their most influencial player. The 'fans' as you call them, will not be sharpening pitchforks when we loose. However, if after 2 years, the team looks in terrible shape, regardless of results, then they have every right to voice their concern. We love our football, and its heartbreaking to see our national side fall so far. It was obvious, and i had it on good authority, regardless of what the players said, that stan was a rank Amateur, who needs to serve his time or at least get his badges before he takes on such a huge role such as manager of an international side!

Do you not know by now that your not a real fan unless you support an EL club:rolleyes: . I mean 54,000 out of a population of 4,000,000 turn out to support the team in a meaningless match, there was only 16,000 at Croatia v Israel. I thought a lot of the passion and spirit of the McCarthy and Charlton years was missing from Kerr's teams, Stan managed to instill some of it in his but they were so tactically poor that the players failed to produce it twice in a row. We need to inject that pride and spirit back into the team along with being well organised.
Stans appointment was possibly the worst in the history of our national team. Along with these other gems (thanks to byrner88) there is no guarantee the FAI will get it right this time. I particularly like the Charlton one.
Fai History

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1965 - Ireland was in a play-off against Spain to qualify for the 1966 World Cup. The FAI agreed to play the game in Paris, where there would be more Spanish fans, if the FAI could have the Spanish share of the gate money. The Spanish agreed, and won the game.

1970s - The FAI regularly organised friendlies in Poland, where officials enjoyed the 'night life' (yes, that means pr**titutes), and once did not even stay in the same city as the match. The players travelled to one such game in the luggage carriage of a train, while the officials relaxed on seats.

1980 - After Johnny Giles quit, Eoin Hand beat Paddy Mulligan to the Ireland manager's job by one swing vote. Afterwards, one FAI board member said that he had voted for Hand because he thought Mulligan was the person who had thrown a bun at him on an away trip.

1986 - Jack Charlton became Ireland manager by accident, after the FAI messed up a vote intended to give the job to Bob Paisley. At first Charlton got only three votes out of eighteen, compared to nine for Paisley. The FAI then couldn't contact Charlton to tell him that he had got the job.

1986 - When a friend congratulated Charlton on his new job, he replied 'What job?' On being told he was Ireland manager, he replied 'Oh, I'd forgotten about that.' When Charlton sent his first squad list to the FAI, he found that an FAI official was adding players that he liked onto the list.

1994 - The FAI bought £296,000 of World Cup tickets, and gave most to a tout with the confidence-inspiring nickname of 'George the Greek', who unsurprisingly did a runner. The FAI ended up with a 'trading shortfall' of over £200,000, for which they obtained just 314 extra tickets for one Ireland match.

1996 - Two referees won a court case against the FAI after being downgraded for failing a new test. The judge called the FAI 'an autocracy which was incapable of abiding by its own rules'. The FAI quickly reacted by writing to 142 other referees, banning them all from refereeing for not taking the same test - the exact opposite of the court judgment.

1999 - The FAI announced a plan to spend £65m on a new stadium, but forgot to include the £16m cost of the site, then spent years debating which of two non-existent stadiums they would use. During the optimistic FAI bid to host Euro 2008, the UEFA panel was photographed examining an empty field.

2002 - The FAI prepared for the World Cup by forgetting to bring proper footballs to an island that had no proper football pitch, causing a minor civil war back home. On returning, the FAI ordered an independent investigation into itself, and pretty much ignored the results.


2002 - The FAI tried to sell TV rights for Ireland games to the subscription channel Sky. When the Government told them that EU law protects important cultural events for terrestrial TV viewers to watch free, the FAI countered that Irish football is not culturally important.

2005 - The FAI fired Brian Kerr, the only Irish manager to have won European and World trophies, and vowed to replace him with a World-class manager. This turned out to be Stephen Staunton, the part-time unofficial coach of the defenders at a poor English third division team.

2007 - The FAI has just fined two League of Ireland clubs EUR500 each because their fans were throwing paper. This comes after they introduced a revised promotion system for last season, which infuriated a Dundalk fan so much that he occupied their offices and doused himself with petrol.

The_B_Man

where did u get that list? thats gas!!

_blank_

The_B_Man wrote: »

where did u get that list? thats gas!!

It's a fúcking embarrassment is what it is.

patmac

The_B_Man wrote: »

where did u get that list? thats gas!!

It was on the humour forum, I didn't think it was that funny!

Nunu

prendy wrote: »

And what manager do you think will take a contract like that?? it looks like were going to be badly seeded for the world cup draw so chances of qualification are reduced.

You do realise that pretty much all international management contracts are 2 year and then come up for renewal at a campaigns end?....a 4 year contract for anyone is madness, as we have seen, and very much bucks the trend.

Mr.Nice Guy

patmac wrote: »

When Charlton sent his first squad list to the FAI, he found that an FAI official was adding players that he liked onto the list.

That was the FAI general secretary Peadar O’Driscoll, and here's another embarrassing nugget of information to add to that. Until O'Driscoll was replaced, Charlton would only phone the FAI at lunchtime - when he knew O’Driscoll would be out of the office.

That ladies and gents is the 'professionalism' we're dealing with!

Pigman II

I think we should reasonably be expecting to put up a good show in every group and at least be finishing 3rd place. I don't agree with people that think we 'should' be qualifying regularily. We have no pedigree for it. We have only actually qualified for one tournament in the last 7 when you get right down to it (and that spans 4 managers there btw so lets not play the blame game). We're not as good as we seem to think we are.

We had the ability to at least compete with the best in Europe ever since Giles/Hand eras and I don't see why that should be any different now. I think however you can forget about seeing the glory days again anytime soon - unless we get some better players thru or can recruit a handful of decent ringers.

Basically with what we've got we can do better than we are doing now, but not good enough to suit the mooing (sorry I mean booing) sections who populate Croker.

Raskolnikov

I only expect the team to play with passion, conviction and pride. We were always rubbish as a footballing nation, but because we played with such heart, we always did well in the major competitions.

We don't necessarily need a tactically astute coach. We need a manager who is adaptive enough to play to our strengths. We need a motivator who can urge the team on and get the best out of what we've got. Look at what Martin O' Neill has done for Aston Villa. Guys like Laursen, Bouma and Moore actually look like Premier League footballers these days.

luckylucky

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I only expect the team to play with passion, conviction and pride. We were always rubbish as a footballing nation, but because we played with such heart, we always did well in the major competitions.

No.6 in the world at one point under Charlton is not the mark of a rubbish team, nor is it purely down to heart, if you haven't got the skills and tactical know how in the 1st place you would never get that far.

We were also perpetually unlucky before the Charlton era not to qualify for major tournaments, I remember in a group with France and Belgium(they were a top side at that time) we barely missed out on qualification due to some dodgy refereeing decisions. That team of ours had plenty of top notch players like Liam Brady, Mark Lawrenson. Again a team who were anything but rubbish.

I think under Mick McCarthy who perhaps did not have quite the selection that was available to Charlton we played our best tactical football where heart came into it but good tactics were paramount imo. I wouldn't have wanted him gone if it wasn't for his overly loyal selections like persisting with Ian Harte in Japan when it was clear even before the World cup that his form had gone to pot.

I also add my voice to Given being a world class goalkeeper and Damien Duff in form is also world class imo.

Right now I'd be happy if we got to a point where we were realistic contenders for qualifying for major tournaments with a manager who didn't make obvious bad decisions. I don't expect perfection but I do expect professionalism and sound management.