Changes to the Driver Licencing System Mega Thread

Wishbone Ash

Punchy07 wrote: »

Im training to be a pilot at the moment and live 25 miles from where I train.I fly on saturday and sunday morningsat 9am and at the moment I have to wake my dad up and have him drive me out there,have him sit in his car and wait for 2 hours and drive me home again.I also have ground school on Tuesdays and Thursday nights so my dad has to drop me out for them too straight after work and sit around aswell.What a joke

Would your flight school allow you to fly unaccompanied? I know nothing about flying but pilots tell me that the most dangerous part of their job is driving to and from the airport!

irishgeo wrote:

the only bit that is new is that they removed the loophole about the 2nd provisional.

There's a bit more to it than that.

(Why do posters constantly refer to the second licence unaccompanied rule as a 'loophole'? It wasn't a loophole. It was there for a reason.)

inertiaman

irishgeo wrote: »

having read through these posts , will people stop whining about the new laws, its always been the law, its not a new law. Your breaking the law when you drive with out a person with a full licence and you have a provisional. the only bit that is new is that they removed the loophole about the 2nd provisional.

Not true, I have a full license for a little under two years and accompany my girlfriend while she's learning to drive. I won't be able to do that from Tuesday. Thats a new law. Learners will also be forced to drive certain cars with speed limiters, if they are driving their parents car that car will be fitted with a limiter too. That is also a new law.

I think it's rather unfair to request people who's daily lives will change as a result of this new enforcement to stop whining. There are a lot of people who have found themselves up sh*t creek in the short to medium term and in turn will find problems created for those around them also. I think everybody who this affects has a right to be a little upset taking into account the short notice.

Dr Lektroluv

I can't believe people aren't seeing this for what it is -> ANOTHER WAY TO GET YOUR MONEY INTO THEIR POCKETS. If they do enforce this, and say 1/4 of those 400,000 driving get the fine, thats 100,000 people getting a 1,000 fine = €100,000,000 - FREE MONEY FOR NOTHING. 1 HUNDRED MILLION EURO! So they can fund their jet-set lifestyles. Less money coming in from stamp duty, etc with the property slump = they have to make it back some way. Target drivers. Bastards.

That's if it is enforced though, which I very much doubt it will be.

My prediction: This will all be forgotten about in a month, nobody will obey the law, test waiting lists will still be high and nothing will have changed.

pete4130

storka wrote: »

ing given 4 days notice:rolleyes:

On the issue of this being normal in all other European countries lets just remember in those countries you can get a test almost immediately and they also have an unknown phenonomen that is yet to reach Ireland called PUBLIC TRANSPORT!!

Your forgetting this phenomen of public transport has reached the Irish public long ago, especially all those people crowded on DART's and the LUAS....its yet to reach our goverment. I'm sure they've heard of it but have never really experienced it or have had to live with it....."
I've heard reports that the LUAS lines that dont connect because it saved the government €4m at the time.....which will now cost in excess of €11m to connect........

flogen

Can someone clarify this for me:

Obviously it's already the law that all provisional licence holders, except those on their second, require accompaniment, that's just never enforced.

The media are saying that from Tuesday the provisional system will be replaced by a 'Learner's Permit' system and all provisional licence holders will require accompaniment but to my mind that would require new legislation.

The thing about that is that Noel Dempsey was on RTÉ News talking about how there's no specific time frame for new legislation that would encompass all of these changes put forward in the RSA 2007-2012 strategy so how could this change possibly be happening? Or is it that the RSA can implement these changes without having to go through the houses of the Oireachtas?

Esel

If there are any hot, female L-drivers out there looking for someone to accompany them home at night....you know what to do!

Vikings

Get a taxi?

Mike...

The best news ever,
For all provisional drivers out there


Nah nah na nah nah

TwoShedsJackson

Uku wrote: »

I think this is especially frustrating for anyone in the same situation as me. I'm a New Zealand full license holder for 5 years, now living here in Ireland. For some reason people from most countries (USA, Canada, NZ) but not some others (Australia, South Korea) have to go through the whole process of getting a drivers license from scratch. I imagine the decision of who does and doesn't have to go through the process is determined by accident rates etc but that's just a guess. In comparison, if I'd moved to the UK my understanding is that I could just switch to a UK license, and an Irish person moving to New Zealand with a full Irish license just needs to sit a theory test ( http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/56.html )

Under the old system this didn't really matter too much to me, as I figured I'd be able to sit the theory, pass, have a handful of lessons on Irish roads and be ready to sit for my full license as soon as a practical test slot was available. But now it looks as though I will have to sit my theory test (which I booked a couple of days ago), wait six months to sit my practical, then be on the restricted for two years. Seems crazy to have to go through all that when I clearly have driving experience. I just hope they have some way of waiving the six month rule for people in my situation (or even better that the Irish government decides to recognise NZ licenses, which I can't see happening)

How long have you been living in Ireland and why did you not apply for your test before now? The learner/provisional system was only ever going to get tougher, not easier, so there was no real reason not to apply for a test, get it done, and have a full licence.

DarkJager

I suppose there is no use continuing to debate this here as the government probably don't read boards. Its time for action now and hopefully over the weekend, some sorts of protests will begin. How about learner drivers in every county go out onto main routes at 11.59pm on Monday night and on the dot of 12, stop the car and get out? Lets see how well organised the gardai will be in clearing that.

As for Gay Byrnes comments, I'm not surprised. The man is an old fool who thinks he can be witty. Disease called "17 to 24" Gay?? How about you catch a nice disease, preferably one that would disable you from opening your ill informed ****ing mouth again?

TwoShedsJackson

DarkJager wrote: »

I suppose there is no use continuing to debate this here as the government probably don't read boards. Its time for action now and hopefully over the weekend, some sorts of protests will begin. How about learner drivers in every county go out onto main routes at 11.59pm on Monday night and on the dot of 12, stop the car and get out? Lets see how well organised the gardai will be in clearing that.

As for Gay Byrnes comments, I'm not surprised. The man is an old fool who thinks he can be witty. Disease called "17 to 24" Gay?? How about you catch a nice disease, preferably one that would disable you from opening your ill informed ****ing mouth again?

You'd be surprised, a friend of mine used to work in the PR section of the Department of the Taoiseach and his first job every morning was to read every major newspaper in Ireland and check out the biggest online sites for any positive/negative publicity or reaction to anything he'd said or done. This site was one of the ones regularly checked.

Blocking the roads at midnight would hardly endear you to anyone. You know the way everyone thinks truck drivers are twats when they block the M50, or taxi men when they block up the centre of town on a protest? Yeah the same thing would apply there. Also, why midnight, not exactly the time of heaviest road use.

If there's any organised protest that involves more than a couple of dozen L drivers, tops, I would be amazed. All I'm reading is the typical 'this is ridiculous!!! Someone should protest very strongly!!! *continues posting on the internet and moaning to anyone who'll listen*' attitude which is pretty prevalent in Ireland.

hopalong_ie

Well i have to say to think it's a sham of an idea, i have my full licence but i failed the first time as i checked my blind spot when i shouldn't have, changing lanes !!. A female friend mounted the kerb and passed while have "A GRAND CHAT" with the instructor. This needs to be corrected.

Secondly.. Who is going to give all these lessons, only DIR Certified driving schools or any driving school, If it's only DIR schools well i can see the price per lesson increase at least two to three times, Supply and Demand as they say. If not well then i can see your friendly driving instructor stamping your permit for a few Euro.

As for Gay Byrne he is a Bigot, and his comments about young men are both sexist and ageist. Many people are familiar of the new Girl racers but that would be sexist and cause a sensation and then there's the people who were handed a licence. All them should be put back to a Second Provisional. A leaner who is driving six months etc. has passed the theory test at least and has an idea of the rules of the road and the mind set to learn vs someone who has probably never read the rules of the road and maybe taken lessons and also has learned to drive in traffic volumes/conditions etc. that are irrelevant nowadays has no incentive to read them now because they have their licence. That is the sham.

I've never had a near miss with a Learner, i give them space and allow for their inexperience but i did have someone in a SUV today undertake me on a roundabout and cut me off as i went to take my exit forcing me to do another lap of the roundabout, I'm pretty sure she wasn't a fourty year old learner. And i was in the correct lane etc.

As for enforcement, it's not going to happen, the response from two Garda Friends and some other guards i know was "people have to get to work", and that's not going to change, when i was a provisional the most stick i ever got was about L plates which the were behind tint, i drove a boy racer car but didn't race around the place, most of those cars are just noise and nothing more as the insurance and running costs makes the larger models out of range.

Provisional Drivers and "Boy Racers", that being anyone with a car that is not standard or certain Japanese cars and young enough to easily fall within the demographic are easy targets, you NEVER hear anything about the cars that pass doing 120+ on the N7 everyday esp those in expensive premium cars who seem to be of the opinion that the overtaking lane is for their use and i've yet to see a crash on the N7 that doesn't involve that demographic, Wednesdays crash involved, An Audi, a large SUV and a BMW all down to tailgating and excessive speed by Experienced drivers but better not say anything about them as they may have the money to SUE for slander so SHHH. Classic example is that Boy Racers should not be allowed tint there Windows but it's ok if your AUDI SUV has "SECURITY FILM". IT'S ALL TINT.

For anyone wondering i drive a 1.3 Toyota as in Ireland it's more than you could need based on the weight of my car to ensure decent power for getting up to speed on motor ways etc.

I agree we need a proper permit based film but singling out a single group and cutting off there ability to function in a car reliant society is wrong esp when the required infrastructure etc is not in place with respect to tests and permits etc. I think it will be news for a few weeks and then it will be back to the same old. now we just need to find out exactly why Gay hates young males so much, Envy maybe :-)

TwoShedsJackson

Hopalong, young males aged 17-24 are involved in six times more accidents than any other section of the driving population. Do you not think that this disproportionate figure means that some sort of corrective action needs to be taken?

storka

pete4130 wrote: »

Your forgetting this phenomen of public transport has reached the Irish public long ago, especially all those people crowded on DART's and the LUAS....its yet to reach our goverment. I'm sure they've heard of it but have never really experienced it or have had to live with it....."
I've heard reports that the LUAS lines that dont connect because it saved the government €4m at the time.....which will now cost in excess of €11m to connect........

Yes ok public transport is here but a crappy bus service, 2 DART lines that run up and down the coasts, and 2 more pathetic LUAS lines hardly conststutes as a public transport system. Maybe what I should have said was an efficient public transport system like they have on every other major city.

is_that_so

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

If there's any organised protest that involves more than a couple of dozen L drivers, tops, I would be amazed. All I'm reading is the typical 'this is ridiculous!!! Someone should protest very strongly!!! *continues posting on the internet and moaning to anyone who'll listen*' attitude which is pretty prevalent in Ireland.

I would also say that your friend might have found a lot of whingeing about the smoking ban when that came in. If the protest was about something unfair or inequitable I would say it should be supported.

The provisional system is an appalling method of "teaching" people how to drive. Anything that can make that better is welcome. I suspect that the rap on the knuckles for our inability to reduce road deaths is at the the heart of this. Also the ridiculous spectacle of nearly half a million "incompetent(not having a certificate of competence)" drivers is only asking for trouble.

However I will concede that the speed of implementation is questionable and that there are problems with waiting times. But this is something provisional drivers are supposed to be doing anyway, having a fully-qualified driver with them.

As others have said enforcement is the key and while it is upsetting to a good number of people if it means better driving standards then I am all for it.

SEPT 23 1989

i will be breaking the law on tuesday morning along with the other 450.000
i would urge all provisional drivers to apply for a test TODAY to expose the shambles in the testing system waiting times and as a form of protest at making ordinary hard working people criminals,why do you think that this shower did not bring it in before the election?

Cabaal

anyone have a link to give a breakdown of the wait time per county at present for driving tests?

DarkJager

http://www.drivingtest.ie/frameset.html

Got the section "Pass rates and waiting times by centre". Think they are looking at it through rose tinted glasses...

Calina

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

i will be breaking the law on tuesday morning along with the other 450.000
i would urge all provisional drivers to apply for a test TODAY to expose the shambles in the testing system waiting times and as a form of protest at making ordinary hard working people criminals,why do you think that this shower did not bring it in before the election?

Given the wait times, provisional drivers shuld have applied for the tests anyway. Why is it that 300,000 of them did not bother to do so.

The argument of "it should be legal cos it's me", by the way, is no basis for argument.

yom 1

Cabaal wrote: »

anyone have a link to give a breakdown of the wait time per county at present for driving tests?

Website has a breakdown - but alas it has crashed!

TwoShedsJackson

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

i will be breaking the law on tuesday morning along with the other 450.000
i would urge all provisional drivers to apply for a test TODAY to expose the shambles in the testing system waiting times and as a form of protest at making ordinary hard working people criminals,why do you think that this shower did not bring it in before the election?

I like the way you automatically assume everyone on a provisional is going to start breaking the law in solidarity with you. They're not. A fair portion might, but once people start being hit with €1000 fines etc. that attitude may change.

Why haven't you already applied for a test if you're on a provisional? You knew it would take six months minimum to get a test, which is plenty of time to get lessons and practice, and have a good shot at passing.

Are you one of the tens of thousands who applied and then cancelled to abuse this loophole and now you're all hurt because it's finally being closed? Tough on you.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cabaal

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

You knew it would take six months minimum to get a test, which is plenty of time to get lessons and practice, and have a good shot at passing..

6 months eh?
I know somebody who applied for there test in January 2007 and only got to do it in October 2007, thats abit more then 6 months

Its worth noting they passed,

I'm not defending the fact he waited to today to apply, I'm just saying the wait times are not as rosey as people would lead you to believe

Our man in Havana

So when are we likely to see R plates on the roads here?

Splinter

can someone tell me how to apply for a cancellation test? iv only been drivign about 8 months and bought my first car last week. yes i have applied for my test but face 5 months waiting at least for the finglas exams

Dr Bob

splinter wrote: »

can someone tell me how to apply for a cancellation test? iv only been drivign about 8 months and bought my first car last week. yes i have applied for my test but face 5 months waiting at least for the finglas exams

I think the "letter from work" (i.e. company headed paper, letter from your boss or HR dept saying that you need to be able to drive for work fairly urgently and would take a cancellation at short notice") is still the standard.
Of course the world and his mother would will be looking for cancellations now so theres probably not much point.
I think the whole thing is a disgrace.typical govt copout of going after the easist target.
If they'd sorted the wait times so that you could apply for a test (at any centre , not just the low pop ones)and take it within say 3 weeks , then the clampdown on unaccompained drivers would be fair ,but dumping this out at short notice , when some people will have 6 month+ wait to actually SIT a test is criminal.

Stark

Bond-007 wrote: »

So when are we likely to see R plates on the roads here?

Hopefully never. I don't want to be stuck behind R drivers tootling along at 80kph after I've finished with the tractors, trucks, old people and those wimmin folk. I'll stop before I offend too many people

KINGPIN

I hate the way people are dishing provisonal license`s these changes shoulda been implemented over 10 years ago and over a period of time . How do they expect people to change over a period of 5 days . I am my first current provisonal license and waiting on my full test i drive a ford fiesta and im not a "boy racer" , very poorly implemented and total lack of consideration and notice for people .

AsphaltRisin'

Hobbes wrote: »

btw didn't they have an Amnesty some years back that gave everyone on the road a free license? I think they should retest those people as well to keep it fair.

My mother got that, and an aunt, 2 uncles and 2 of the guys i used to work with.
Thankfully my mother's actually a very good driver and never had a accident.. hence her insurance being around 200 euro a year!

bonkey

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

i will be breaking the law on tuesday morning along with the other 450.000

For a start, of those 450,000, over 300,000 are effectively unaffected by the legal change. They would be breaking the law under current legislation if they drove unaccompanied, and they will be breaking the law on Monday if they drive unaccompanied.

Complaints from this 300,000 should be ignored. If the Minister had simply announced "starting on Monday, we will enforce existing legislation", what would their argument be?

Exactly what sympathy or consideration do people deserve for their lawbreaking no longer being tolerated.

Of the remainder - those actually on 2nd provisional licences - they have limited grounds to air their grievance. Of those 125,000-odd, I'd listen to the ones who have applied for but not yet sat a test.

Those who hadn't applied prior to the announcement are, in my eyes, undeserving of sympathy. They knew the waiting list length, but didn't feel that it was worth applying.....why? Either they weren't in any rush to get certified (in which case - no sympathy from me), or they didn't think they'd be ready in time (in which case - I'm glad they'll be taken off the roads). I can't think of a third option.

Of those who have sat and failed a test, I also have no sympathy. You've failed to prove to a qualified tester that you are sufficiently in control of your vehicle to obtain a license. What possible logic says that its OK for you to drive alone?

i would urge all provisional drivers to apply for a test TODAY to expose the shambles in the testing system waiting times and as a form of protest at making ordinary hard working people criminals,why do you think that this shower did not bring it in before the election?

Tell me...why weren't you outraged to expose the shambles of a testing system say....oh....on Wednesday. Why weren't you urging the 300,000 provisional license holders who hadn't yet applied for a test to do so then?

The testing system hasn't changed. What has changed is that less than 1/3 of the provisional license holders will no longer be legally permitted to drive unaccompanied.