Changes to the Driver Licencing System Mega Thread

TwoShedsJackson

Cabaal wrote: »

6 months eh?
I know somebody who applied for there test in January 2007 and only got to do it in October 2007, thats abit more then 6 months

Its worth noting they passed,

I'm not defending the fact he waited to today to apply, I'm just saying the wait times are not as rosey as people would lead you to believe

And thats why i said a minimum of six months, not just six months I applied in Tallaght in December 2006 and got a test date in June 2007 at CityWest as the Tallaght centre had closed by then.

Rabidlamb

Ooooh . . . . the scary threat of enforcement . . good god no !!!

These are the facts as I know them:
There are just over 400,000 provisional drivers on our roads out of a total driving population of about 2,000,000.
So roughly one in 5 cars today should have "L" plates displayed.
Look around the roads & you'd be lucky to spot one in 50.
Provisional drivers recognised long ago that displaying an "L" plate was the same as having a flashing neon sign to attract the guards, especially if you had to drive on motorways to get to work.

Come next Tueday morning it'll be business as usual, but with even less "L" plates. People who only use national routes & motorways to get to work will never see a checkpoint so they've no way of being caught unless they are in a crash. Even law abiding people will take a chance on this.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Guisseppeth

As a learner on a 2nd Provisional I have to say that I agree with the change in the rules or law (whichever it is.) I couldn't believe it when I first moved down to Dublin from the North that you could drive by yourself with L plates. It was later clarified that you could only do this if you held a 2nd Provisional but this doesn't seem to stop anyone as I know loads of people on 1st provisionals who drive on their own. I am lucky enough in that I don't rely on the car to get to/from work so I now this makes a difference to peoples opinions.

What I disagree with is the timing of this announcement. I think its ridiculous that this gets announced on a Thursday and it taking effect on the Tuesday after a bank holiday weekend. Its giving no time whatsoever for people to make alternative arrangements and will inevitably lead to thousands of people breaking the law.

I have my test on Thursday so instead of being able to drive there myself I am going to have to take my wife and my 3 week old daughter with me so that they can sit in a draughty waiting room at the NCT centre for approx an hour while I do my test. But unfortunately thats what I will have to do as knowing my luck I'll get caught on the way there or the instructor will see me pulling in by myself and fail me for breaking the law - can this happen??? If they can fail you for defective lights etc then surely they can do something about this???

I have been taking lessons and have nearly always had my wife in the car with me when driving except in the last few weeks since she has given birth and even then its only to pop to the shops etc. She has a full license for 7/8 yrs. I have previously failed a test (unfortunately in my opinion as my instructor thinks I am an excellent driver) having waited 6 months to get a date and this one has taken 5 months to get the date so although its coming down its not really coming down quickly enough.

spudington16

Nuttzz wrote: »

no

our average waiting time per region is:

· North Leinster........ 28 weeks
· South Leinster...... . 22 weeks
· West...................34 weeks
· North West........... 13 weeks
· South East.............23 weeks
· South West............28 weeks

this needs to be sorted first

While I agree we have a severe problem with those waiting lists, I don't believe it's a good enough excuse to allow inexpreienced drivers to drive unaccompanied; that would just be idiocy.

I'm a provional license holder myself, and if anything this will just give us a greater incentive to learn from those more experienced in driving than ourselves.

If anything, it seems this move is long, long overdue.

paconnors

the driving test website is down at the moment i hop by the end of the day the more people that apply the further the waiting tests go back and make a liar of the goverment, it will be pie in thier face

TheNog

This new change in traffic laws are an absolute shambles. The theory behind it is sound in that provisional licensed drivers should be accompanied at all times but the waiting times for the test must be brought down to three or four weeks at best. There should be learner classes in school for 15-16 yr olds who want to drive when they turn 17. These changes should not be implemented until all these are in place and then should be brought 5-6 months later.
Instead what we will have is people still driving on a provisional licence unaccompanied because they have to go to work to pay for bills and their mortgage and the government will expect the guards to enforce the law. whats happening is the government is relying on people to break the law to get the cash so in essence the government is pushing people to break the law and get caught.The result will be more money into the government coffers and then Bertie will tell us in the new year that things aren't as bad as was made out to be a couple of days ago.

This is just like the NCT which had its benefits when it was introduced in removing the clapped out bangers on the road but as the NCT cert and disc is only good for the day you got it. The next day you could break your suspension or crash your car and the NCT is not worth the paper its printed on.

People don't be fooled this is a revenue generating change in law. The reason it was brought in so quickly is because it can generate huge amounts of cash. The government is never so quick to spend money on other areas of road safety such as better equipment for the guards or better driver education or improvement on roads.

Stark

Rapidlamb wrote:

especially if you had to drive on motorways to get to work.

You mean you prefer to take the motorway to work. You don't have to drive on motorways. By law, all motorway roads have an alternative route for people who aren't legally allowed drive on them.

TheNog wrote:

This is just like the NCT which had its benefits when it was introduced in removing the clapped out bangers on the road but as the NCT cert and disc is only good for the day you got it. The next day you could break your suspension or crash your car and the NCT is not worth the paper its printed on.

It's illegal to drive an unroadworthy car even if it's NCT'd, just as you must continue following road traffic law after you pass your test. It's better to examine cars at 2 year interval checks than it is to never examine them at all.

endplate

I'd give it a few weeks then the Garda will get fed up with constant checks and it'll be back to normal then. Why don't they go after the real problem of lunatic speeders on bad roads and move away from shooting fish in a barrel on dual carraigeways nah that would be too much like hard work.

I've had a license for a lot of years I think a Guard asked to see it once although that might have been a dream. I asked my wife that since she started driving how many times she was asked to show her license and surprise surprise she said never. My wife is a learner but I use her car quite a bit so I won't let her put up L plates as people act like retards around cars with L plates regardless of who's driving.

It's all bullsh*t talk from this incompotant government that so many fools out there thought would be a great idea to vote back in.

I gurantee you there won't be a lot of L plates on view come tuesday morning. Why would people make it obivious that they are learners now esp if they have been driving for years.

Stark

endplate wrote:

My wife is a learner but I use her car quite a bit so I won't let her put up L plates as people act like retards around cars with L plates regardless of who's driving.

Isn't she lucky to have you to stop her obeying the law.

endplate wrote:

Why would people make it obivious that they are learners now esp if they have been driving for years.

If they've been driving for years, why haven't they bothered doing their tests up till now? The people who've been "driving for years doncha know" are exactly the people who deserve to be targetted by this. At least the people who applied for their tests and intend on sitting their tests have some respect for other road users.

bugler

This may have been asked before in this thread, apologies if it has, but does anyone think this change is going to impact on the national rate of accidents or road deaths?

Stark

bugler wrote: »

This may have been asked before in this thread, apologies if it has, but does anyone think this change is going to impact on the national rate of accidents or road deaths?

Realistically? No.

TheNog

Stark wrote: »

It's illegal to drive an unroadworthy car even if it's NCT'd, just as you must continue following road traffic law after you pass your test. It's better to examine cars at 2 year interval checks than it is to never examine them at all.

You are right, it is illegal to drive an unsafe car but checking cars every 2 years is not good enough. Why not have the full NCT every 2 years as we have and another smaller test every 6 months to check brakes and suspension? At present if ur car fails the NCT no matter how bad a fail you get to drive it away. Shouldn't cars that are serious failures be seized and the owner can only have it towed to a garage to be fixed or else sign a disclaimer to have the car fixed? The NCT again looks great on paper but in reality is a toothless tiger.

doFro83

I would like to tell you of my absolute disgust towards your new overnight policies regarding learner drivers. How you think you can implement something so quickly and clearly without any thought at all.



I would like to ask how the vast numbers of people with 2nd provisional licenses that have driven to work and are still driving to work are meant to continue to do this. Will the Department of Transport or the RSA compensate these people who are being forced to change their normal ways to work within a 3 day period!?
If somebody who normally drives to work and owns their own car on a 2nd provisional, what are the now meant to do!? Do they sell their car? Do they have to look for somebody who has a full license to accompany them to work, well clearly that wouldn’t work as that person would be driving themselves.



Somebody who is on a 2nd provisional license and is perhaps an only child with one deceased parent and their other parent is dependent on them bringing to the doctor, shops etc, is this not an extreme hindrance on all parties and again showing how the Irish government neglects the elderly.


If a 2nd provisional license holder works away from home like from a commuter town to Dublin and may not get home until 7/7.30 each evening and then comes home, when are they able to learn during winter months, are they forced to learn in the dark? Also what if only one parent is a license holder, as in the case a lot of the time, then can we really expect the other parent or sibling who themselves has had a long day at work to sit in a passenger seat while the 2nd provisional drives around?


A lot of people do not start learning to drive as soon as they turn the legal age and therefore might not get a 2nd provisional license until perhaps their mid 20’s or even later (I am aware of these people) but they have worked hard to buy their own home, are these people now forced to be homebound because they are not allowed to drive their own car. As you know a lot of new estate or homes do not have the same neighbourhood atmosphere (not that it would matter) and therefore 2nd provisional license holders have nobody near by to help them go to the shops in their car or anywhere they might need to go.


Can I ask what will happen to perhaps the thousands of drivers who have bought a car in recent times while holding a 2nd provisional license as they were allowed to drive it? Do these people now have to sell that car? Do these people now have to always look for a full license holder to sit with them as the drive their own car?


Can I ask if somehow people do organize a routine with somebody driving to work, what would then happen if the full license holder left their job, would they then have to call in sick or call in and say “I am sorry I can’t come to work today because I can’t drive?”


Does the government not realize that vast numbers of people who travel by car to work and do this because the public transport system is not up to scratch? Small rural communities in Meath, Louth, Kildare, Wicklow etc that have people who work in Dublin and might drive to a larger town or village each morning to get a bus to Dublin, what are these people now meant to do?


Can you explain to me how the huge numbers of trades people or those doing FAS courses, (a high number of which would be young and on only 2nd provisional licenses), are these people now forced to travel to a job with their tools on a bus? Walk to their jobs?


Can you explain to me how single parents especially mothers are expected to car for their children? What if a young lady became pregnant and was to be a single mother? That girl does not drive but now realizes she needs to, she applies for her 2nd provisional license as soon as possible but then must hold that for a 6month period before she can do her test and then must wait roughly 10 weeks (probably more) for a test and there is no guarantee they will pass their test, what do they do? A newborn child will need doctor visits for vaccinations etc, hospital visits and the mother will need constant access to shops for supplies etc, how can this all be done if she is not allowed to drive?




There are probably another huge number of reasons and examples of how these crazy and thoughtless proposals can't work correctly or indeed be implemented over a 3 day period. I would like to let you know that I will be starting a petition in relation to this and I am fully sure it will not be the only petition as the uproar amongst the normal Irish person on the street is huge.

If you are trying to stop road fatalities then perhaps look at things that are actually causing deaths on our roads, which everyone knows is not provisional drivers; drink, speed, youth and probably most of all bad roads.

gotanyinfo

Sorry if this wass asked already but will people who get/or have a provisional motorcycle license be able to drive on the roads as normal.. Thanks.

daveirl

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daveirl

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Stark

TheNog wrote:

but checking cars every 2 years is not good enough.

But it's better than nothing.

TheNog wrote:

At present if ur car fails the NCT no matter how bad a fail you get to drive it away.... The NCT again looks great on paper but in reality is a toothless tiger.

Not much different to the actual driving test then. Still though, like the driving test, it's better than nothing and we need to focus on improving what we have rather than leaving every "I've been driving a whole 2 hours and I'm a legend" driver and every bald tyred brakeless '85 left hooker onto the roads.

endplate

Stark wrote: »

Isn't she lucky to have you to stop her obeying the law.

Yup such is life if only fully licensed drivers behaved better around cars with L plates then it wouldn't be an issue

Stark wrote: »

If they've been driving for years, why haven't they bothered doing their tests up till now? The people who've been "driving for years doncha know" are exactly the people who deserve to be targetted by this. At least the people who applied for their tests and intend on sitting their tests have some respect for other road users.

Must I remind you that each provisional license lasts 2 years so after 3.5 years isn't somebody classed as driving for years regardless of having done the test:rolleyes:

TheNog

endplate wrote: »

I'd give it a few weeks then the Garda will get fed up with constant checks and it'll be back to normal then. Why don't they go after the real problem of lunatic speeders on bad roads and move away from shooting fish in a barrel on dual carraigeways nah that would be too much like hard work.

I've had a license for a lot of years I think a Guard asked to see it once although that might have been a dream. I asked my wife that since she started driving how many times she was asked to show her license and surprise surprise she said never. My wife is a learner but I use her car quite a bit so I won't let her put up L plates as people act like retards around cars with L plates regardless of who's driving.

The speed checks on dual carraigeways are not shooting fish in a barrel as far as i'm concerned. When I performed speed checks, I give an allowance of 20kph so anyone i find driving 20kph over the limit are stopped and fined. I think this seems fair. Many of the back roads do not have a safe place for a garda to do the checks. You have to think of your safety and the safety of other drivers too.

As for asking for a licence, will I do ask alot of drivers for their licence. Those who are on a provisional licence and are unaccompanied I have said nothing to them. Why should I? Is it there fault that the waiting times for a test are so long? I know people have to be able to get around in cars and I am not about to penalise them because the government didn't bother their arses sorting the problem out years ago. It is only when the area is improved will I start prosecuting people.

Stark

endplate wrote: »

Must I remind you that each provisional license lasts 2 years so after 3.5 years isn't somebody classed as driving for years regardless of having done the test:rolleyes:

Yes, and what makes you think that driving day in day out for 3.5 years when you could have done 3 tests in that time is acceptable? Worse still, those people could have failed 3 tests in that time.

TheNog

Stark wrote: »

Not much different to the actual driving test then. Still though, like the driving test, it's better than nothing and we need to focus on improving what we have rather than leaving every "I've been driving a whole 2 hours and I'm a legend" driver and every bald tyred brakeless '85 left hooker onto the roads.

But can't u see the NCT and the current driving test is not better than nothing, it is nothing!!!!!!!! Both need major improvements for obvious reasons

yom 1

Stark wrote: »

Yes, and what makes you think that driving day in day out for 3.5 years when you could have done 3 tests in that time is acceptable? Worse still, those people could have failed 3 tests in that time.

thats the problem though - you should be able to do 18 tests in that time going by their 10 week test time that they reckon will somehow magically appear next march.

HashSlinging

I think its wrong to introduce this at such short notice, a lot of people from rural areas rely on their cars, typical FF.

Well you voted for them!!!!

I think it should be introduced on a phased basis. I passed my test after three attempts, (two of which I didnt even get my car on the road, 1 day out of date licence and another date mixup damn..that one still hurts.).

Stark

yom 1 wrote:

thats the problem though - you should be able to do 18 tests in that time going by their 10 week test time that they reckon will somehow magically appear next march.

The people who are trying to get their tests have a right to be pissed off with the situation. The people who've had 3.5 years to apply, but never bothered because they thought the golden days would last forever don't have that right.

TheNog

HashSlinging wrote: »

I think its wrong to introduce this at such short notice, a lot of people from rural areas rely on their cars, typical FF.

Well you voted for them!!!!

I think it should be introduced on a phased basis. I passed my test after three attempts, (two of which I didnt even get my car on the road, 1 day out of date licence and another date mixup damn..that one still hurts.).

it is wrong,very wrong. Only 2 days ago Brian Cowen said we will have to tighten our belts, public spending will be reduced resulting in the closure of beds in our hospitals and then they bring out this pile of crap at the wrong time!!!!!!!!!

They want people to break the law in order to get money out of them!. The government is essentially facilitating people in breaking the law

HashSlinging

Well if it was me in this situation I would start a protest. It could have been me had this been introduced a couple of years ago.

busykill

Well i am definately going to drive illegally when my car comes in in january.
Its probably going to mean that driving will be alot more expensive though, with the fines and all.
This is typical of gay byrne. That a*** has always had a problem with supposed boy racers. A quick quote from the independent about a year ago:- "We need to clamp down on these souped up cars" .

He wouldn't know a powerful car if it crawled up his a*** and spoke to him.
His idea of a "souped" up car is probably a crappy 1 litre with a boot spoiler.
I can picture him now driving on the motorway at 40km/h being overtaken by a 1 litre and swearing revenge. The rsa needs a new chairman that actually understands cars and their importance in our working and educational lives.
For god sake upto about 2 years Bertie Ahern was driving illegally on a provisonal or has everyone forgotten about this since he's now earning more than George Bush. Only to be topped by communist leaders

storka

What i'm mostly pissed about is how this will affect testing wait times. I've applied for mine (on 1st provisional) and now all these 300,000 who were too lazy to apply before are going to be applying with letters from their employers and will skip me in the queue which will only increase my wait as someone who did apply when I was supposed to.

jmayo

It is yet again the government trying to be seen to be doing something about the deaths on the roads.
Why didn't they confront the unions of the driving testers and straighten out the mess but Bertie et al haven't got the balls to do that.

Ill thought out and the Guards will probably only use it as a way of getting some little feckers off the road. So that way the fine may be useful.

It doesn't matter a crap what laws are on the books, if they are never enforced.
How many L drivers have been stopped for using motorway sections ?
How many first time provisisonal drivers were driving unaccompanied and stopped ?

The only worrying thing is that insurance will be null and void if the L driver has an accident.

Can someone enlighten me if this was already the case with first time provisional license holder having accident if they were unaccompanied?