Changes to the Driver Licencing System Mega Thread

paconnors

TheNog wrote: »

it is wrong,very wrong. Only 2 days ago Brian Cowen said we will have to tighten our belts, public spending will be reduced resulting in the closure of beds in our hospitals and then they bring out this pile of crap at the wrong time!!!!!!!!!

They want people to break the law in order to get money out of them!. The government is essentially facilitating people in breaking the law

Dont pay the fine it will cost the goverment more then a €1000 to lock us up, then they are spending more money then, why dont they take a pay cut

Stark

This is the quote I saw in the paper regarding insurance:

The safety chief urged anyone on either a learner permit or a provisional licence to check with their insurance companies if they planned to drive unaccompanied.

Insurance sources said last night that while injured parties would be covered in a crash, some insurance companies could introduce clauses onto crash damage of the driver's car.

busykill

from todays independent,:

"Because young men suffer from a disease which can only be described as '17 to 26' -- that is the disease in itself,'' -Mr Byrne

TheNog

jmayo wrote: »

It doesn't matter a crap what laws are on the books, if they are never enforced.
How many L drivers have been stopped for using motorway sections ?
How many first time provisisonal drivers were driving unaccompanied and stopped ?

The only worrying thing is that insurance will be null and void if the L driver has an accident.

Can someone enlighten me if this was already the case with first time provisional license holder having accident if they were unaccompanied?

Firstly most L drivers don't have L plates on their cars and if a L driver is seen on the motorway, in my experience they are escorted off. In order to catch as many L drivers on the motorway a checkpoint has be to set up using alot of guards which makes it prohibitive because of the lack of resources.

As for insurance it is up to the insurance company. They usually pay out for damages but someone them may reduce the policy from Comprehensive to Third Party.

TheNog

paconnors wrote: »

Dont pay the fine it will cost the goverment more then a €1000 to lock us up, then they are spending more money then, why dont they take a pay cut

Not paying the fine is a bad idea. I presume the fine will be court issued and if you don't pay that then a penal warrant is issued for that person to lodged in prison for X amount of days.

endplate

TheNog wrote: »

The speed checks on dual carraigeways are not shooting fish in a barrel as far as i'm concerned. When I performed speed checks, I give an allowance of 20kph so anyone i find driving 20kph over the limit are stopped and fined. I think this seems fair. Many of the back roads do not have a safe place for a garda to do the checks. You have to think of your safety and the safety of other drivers too.

As for asking for a licence, will I do ask alot of drivers for their licence. Those who are on a provisional licence and are unaccompanied I have said nothing to them. Why should I? Is it there fault that the waiting times for a test are so long? I know people have to be able to get around in cars and I am not about to penalise them because the government didn't bother their arses sorting the problem out years ago. It is only when the area is improved will I start prosecuting people.

I do believe I have a very safe approach to driving I feel tho that the worst driving happens on back roads and the most bad accidents do you not think so? People for some reason are always in a tremendous hurry these days. I see people walking on narrow roads and mothers with prams and I do be wondering are they mad with the speed people do be doing on the roads.

I suppose then about the license thing is I or my my wife don't be doing stupid things to have the Gardai wanting to see our licenses,

What is your opinion about the new laws will they be hard to enforce do you believe that learners will go underground as a result i.e. take off their L plates

lmimmfn

This is completely nuts, i seriously hope they dont enforce this until everyone currently on a provisional has had a chance to have a test, ive only been driving since January although on my second provisional( long story, but basically i didnt have the cash to buy a car and get insured ), on my first i only did several hours driving lessons. Im 31 and i need to be able to drive into work simply because there is no public transport from where i moved to in August to work( had to move, gf needs to be able to commute to dublin ). To make matters worse my 2nd provisional is up in 3 weeks

Anyway, im going to apply for the test now, is the online test booking working for anyone, or can anyone download the application form? from http://www.drivingtest.ie/frameset.html

jmayo

TheNog wrote: »

Firstly most L drivers don't have L plates on their cars and if a L driver is seen on the motorway, in my experience they are escorted off. In order to catch as many L drivers on the motorway a checkpoint has be to set up using alot of guards which makes it prohibitive because of the lack of resources.

I have seen good few L plated drivers on motorways (M50 is or rather was one I believe) and I have never seen or heard of one being escorted off.

On a slightly different slant, coming from farming background, do provisional license holders have to have someone with them if they are driving a tractor ?
If so then they can only drive large and newer tractors, have they thought of environmental impact of this

BTW you don't operate on the N5 by any chance :-)

Stark

jmayo wrote:

On a slightly different slant, coming from farming background, do provisional license holders have to have someone with them if they are driving a tractor ?

Nope, category W license covers them for driving a tractor and that doesn't require them to be accompanied. Not sure what the situation is with taking a tractor onto a public road though.

paconnors

TheNog wrote: »

Not paying the fine is a bad idea. I presume the fine will be court issued and if you don't pay that then a penal warrant is issued for that person to lodged in prison for X amount of days.

Means your not paying money, the goverment are spending money to put you away, at their mistake, if they were to bring a waiting time of say 6 - 8 weeks, then they wouldnt be in it in their necks,

inode

not working for me either. and now our insurance is invalid too!!! im paying 2300 a year for what now? our country is run by stupid ***** who dont think anything through.

jmayo

Stark wrote: »

Nope, category W license covers them for driving a tractor and that doesn't require them to be accompanied. Not sure what the situation is with taking a tractor onto a public road though.

It is public road I am on about.
You can drive a tractor without license or at any age on your own property AFAIK.
Also contrary to some eejit that contacted radio the other day,in response to Olivia Mitchells crap idea, most farmers have to move on public roads. Most neighbours tend to get offended when you go throught their fences.

peasant

We're coming up to the Christmas period. Operation "overtime" (or what ever they call the "festive" road safety clampdown these days) is imminent.

I would expect to see a good few roadblocks on strategic junctions. Only this year they will not only check for alcohol but also for licences.

By the end of the year there will be a 1000% increase in licence violations (simply because nobody ever bothered to check before) and the RSA, the governement and aunty Gaybo will be shouting from the rooftops how they've made the roads so much safer.

If I was on a provisional licence, I'd think looong and hard about driving.

nice1franko

TheNog wrote: »

Firstly most L drivers don't have L plates on their cars and if a L driver is seen on the motorway, in my experience they are escorted off. In order to catch as many L drivers on the motorway a checkpoint has be to set up using alot of guards which makes it prohibitive because of the lack of resources.

what motorway is this? I'm on the M50 every weekday and not once have I ever been "escorted" off it or even had anyone (garda or otherwise) bat an eyelid.

Nor have I ever even heard of any learner ever being pulled for a being a learner on the motorway.

Anyway, the plates could be up because someone who is learning is also using the car - it doesn't necessarily mean the driver is a learner.

DarkJager

Don't pay the fine, then take them to court over the fact that you are losing money because you can't drive to work.

jmayo

peasant wrote: »

We're coming up to the Christmas period. Operation "overtime" (or what ever they call the "festive" road safety clampdown these days) is imminent.

I would expect to see a good few roadblocks on strategic junctions. Only this year they will not only check for alcohol but also for licences.

By the end of the year there will be a 1000% increase in licence violations (simply because nobody ever bothered to check before) and the RSA, the governement and aunty Gaybo will be shouting from the rooftops how they've made the roads so much safer.

If I was on a provisional licence, I'd think looong and hard about driving.

If I was on a provisional license I would think long and hard about leaving for UK. At least you could get a test over there.

TheNog

endplate wrote: »

I do believe I have a very safe approach to driving I feel tho that the worst driving happens on back roads and the most bad accidents do you not think so? People for some reason are always in a tremendous hurry these days. I see people walking on narrow roads and mothers with prams and I do be wondering are they mad with the speed people do be doing on the roads.

I suppose then about the license thing is I or my my wife don't be doing stupid things to have the Gardai wanting to see our licenses,

What is your opinion about the new laws will they be hard to enforce do you believe that learners will go underground as a result i.e. take off their L plates

I agree with you in that people are speeding on the back roads and i do speed checks on back roads but only where it is safe to do so. I don't want pick an unsafe spot on the road to catch people speeding and there be an traffic collision because of me.

Personally I would be enforcing the new laws to the full for several months. I will however insist people do display the L plates and always have but being unaccompanied at this time is unfair on the driver. I will wait and see how the waiting times for the test go. The sooner the government reduces the waiting times, the sooner I will enforce the law. I feel many guards will do the same in the interest of fairness

Philthy

I booked mine just after 9 this morning. It was working then but there are probably 300,000 people looking to do it now.

I was called into the office this morning and asked if I had someone to accompany me. I said no and then I was asked if I was willing to flout the law for as long as it took to get the test as they couldn't possibly employ someone who was relying on the crap public transport in my area.

I am a safe driver. I will continue to be a safe driver being overtaken by fully licenced impatient drivers in flash cars. I will also be taking down my L plates as advised by family and friends who think I may as well have a neon sign on my car asking the Gardai to stop me. I only use my car to go to work. I earn €250 per week and taxis to work would cost me €340. Do the maths Gay. You will no longer be able to tell who is a learner driver on the road. With my L Plates, I was sometimes given consideration. People are always more wary around learner drivers.

Now that I am taking down my plates along with many of the other drivers, you won't know where the lesser inexperienced drivers are.

NBar

Wait til the insurance companies get going looking for proof of when you applied for your test and naming the qualified drivers that will be accompaning you and you also got to remember that the qualified driver has to be sober so don't anybody think they can bring piss head Mick home and are covered cassue he still has a full licence it won't work

squishywishy

I'm all for making the roads a safer place but sme of the safest drivers i know are learner drivers cos they havent picked up bad habits yet!!!

Neither of my parents drive and my brother is also on a provisional so i have no licensed driver to come with me in the car.

Was fairly raging when i saw the news......especially when i checked the post and saw my new tax disc had come.....fat use that is now!!

the claims that the waiting list is down to an average of 14 weeks is a load of bull****

..............I've been waitng for my test since march....id gladly sit it if they'd give me a date!!!

The 300,000 people who havent applied deserve this but those waiting dont....its not our fault that we arent been given the chance to pass the test!!!

TheNog

paconnors wrote: »

Means your not paying money, the goverment are spending money to put you away, at their mistake, if they were to bring a waiting time of say 6 - 8 weeks, then they wouldnt be in it in their necks,

the government will be spending ur tax money to put you away. Anyway it is not down to money being spent on putting people away. There is the pyshcological end of it too. I have been in a couple of prisons and by god they are dismal and scary places. I would imagine ppl being sent to prison would be there for a day or 2 at the most but it would be enough

Calina

lmimmfn wrote: »

...... ive only been driving since January although on my second provisional( long story, but basically i didnt have the cash to buy a car and get insured )....

I did not have the cash to buy a car and get upfront, on the other hand I applied for a driving test and spent something like 200 quid on driving lessons and passed my driving test so that when I did ahve the money to buy a car and get insured I also had a full driving licence. I was 27 years old at the time. So your sob story is not a long story - in most other civilised countries you wouldn't even have been looking to buy a car without passing your driving test first.

TheNog

nice1franko wrote: »

what motorway is this? I'm on the M50 every weekday and not once have I ever been "escorted" off it or even had anyone (garda or otherwise) bat an eyelid.

Nor have I ever even heard of any learner ever being pulled for a being a learner on the motorway.

Anyway, the plates could be up because someone who is learning is also using the car - it doesn't necessarily mean the driver is a learner.

i have seen it on the M1 at Drogheda. There are two cars on that motorway almost constantly, some marked other not.

NBar

DarkJager wrote: »

Don't pay the fine, then take them to court over the fact that you are losing money because you can't drive to work.

:rolleyes:

What a load of crap where does it say you are entitled to drive, driving is not a God given right and that is the problem people think they are entitled to drive, that's why we have "Driving Licences" If you can't get to work cause of a storm or snow who do you sue Gerry Scully cause he did not predict it would snow on the Weather Forecast

squishywishy

Just wondering what provisional drivers are gonna do now that the law is being enforced??

Are you gonna drive or use the dreaded public transport???

TheNog

NBar wrote: »

:rolleyes:

What a load of crap where does it say you are entitled to drive, driving is not a God given right and that is the problem people think they are entitled to drive, that's why we have "Driving Licences"

Unfortunately the impression " I am entitled to Drive" comes from our current driving licence system. Anyone over 17 yrs old can get provisional licence and drive a car without having under gone a test or lessons.

People say "you can apply for a licence". In order for a person to apply for a licence there must be a chance they can fail that in their application. Example - apply for a loan, mortgage, a new job etc. Currently there is nothing to bar a person for getting a licence unless they are physically unable to drive or have been disqualified from driving in a court. And there is not many people like that!!

Dancor

Im going to give that law a big up yours!! Absolutly ridiculous. I need my car no two ways about it. I cant see this law lasting long, It will be a big failure for the goverment and department of transport.

lmimmfn

Calina wrote: »

I did not have the cash to buy a car and get upfront, on the other hand I applied for a driving test and spent something like 200 quid on driving lessons and passed my driving test so that when I did ahve the money to buy a car and get insured I also had a full driving licence. I was 27 years old at the time. So your sob story is not a long story - in most other civilised countries you wouldn't even have been looking to buy a car without passing your driving test first.

Its not a sob story, its an impossibility, i didnt buy a car also because my circumstances changed and i was living in dublin at the time( moved to france for a year and Sweden also ) and the public transport was good enough.

When i moved due to work relocation, i bought a car because my gf has a full driving license and it made sense that i learnt how to drive too. Recently we've had to move as shes working in dublin and can now commute but it ment i have to drive, i cannot move, i cannot get public transport. I have no problem spending 200euro on lessons, in fact i have no problem spending 2000 euro on lessons.

My point is is that i can no longer work legally because i can no longer travel to work, i pay in excess of 15000euro of taxes a year, if i cannot get to work i will have to pay over 8000euro so that i can get out of my rental contract and look for work in a city which has public transport.
In fact if it does come to that i will move to the uk where at least a house in a city is affordable and public transport is at least able to cope

If someone has the application form downloaded could they please upload it to putfile or similar please?

Calina

TheNog wrote: »

Personally I would be enforcing the new laws to the full for several months. I will however insist people do display the L plates and always have but being unaccompanied at this time is unfair on the driver. I will wait and see how the waiting times for the test go. The sooner the government reduces the waiting times, the sooner I will enforce the law. I feel many guards will do the same in the interest of fairness

I would take the view that the waiting times could be significantly reduced by people passing the test first go and not having to retake it three and four times. To fail once may be unlucky. To fail four times implies incompetency in driving. Some of the whinging that I have heard about this comes from people with multiple failures behind them. Once you fail three driving tests, perhaps you should be banned from driving. This would concentrate a lot of minds I suspect.

The attitude towards driver training in Ireland has always shocked me. Far too laissez-faire. I am unhappy that someone charged with enforcing legislation would choose not to enforce aspects of that legislation because they sort of feel it is unfair. Is it fair on other road users that one subsection are allowed flout the law with impunity? There is a road code. Most of it is black and white - either something is allowed or is not allowed. You enforce the legislation. It is not up to you to decide whether it is fair or unfair. I drive from Dublin to Limerick on a fairly regular basis. On every single journey, at least one driver I encounter does something that could result in a fatal accident. They may not all be learner drivers but if you allow leeway on one rule, you dilute the system as a whole because people who learn not respect one rule pretty soon learn not to respect the system as a whole and this is evidenced by the attitude of many, many drivers both learners and fully qualified.

What is not fair to the community of drivers as a whole is to allow learner drivers to break the law which directly relates to their status. We all had to wait for driving tests. There is nothing special about the current crop of learners except, it would appear, that they have an attitude of entitlement and no recognition of their responsibilities not to break prevailing legislation.

inode

my car is essential for work and for college. im also giving the law a big up yours.

are they trying to force people to lose/quit their jobs to go on the dole or what?