Changes to the Driver Licencing System Mega Thread

DarkJager

I'm going to ignore it, like the majority of drivers. I need to get to work to pay my bills, so couldn't really give a sh1t what the RSA says.

squishywishy

I dunno what to do myself! terrified of getting caught cos its expensive enough with tax, petrol, insurance etc but i cant get to college or placement or work without it!!!

Typical of the Gov if you ask me!!....they all have drivers anyway.....doubt Berties driver has a provisional and needs Bertie in the car so that he's allowed drive!!!!

Calina

TheNog wrote: »

Unfortunately the impression " I am entitled to Drive" comes from our current driving licence system. Anyone over 17 yrs old can get provisional licence and drive a car without having under gone a test or lessons.

On the other hand, the current and soon to be enhanced system allows for the licence to be taken from the holder also. The sense of entitlement is from attitude in my opinion, not from the system. It's prevalent on many fronts, not just in terms of driving.

Snakeblood

I'm going to have to drive. I'm down for the test, but all I have is a letter saying that they'll tell me when it's five weeks to the test. I bought a house miles away from work, with an impossible commute. I don't know what else I can do.

DarkJager

You've gotta do what you've gotta do. Getting your college course done, or getting to work is more important than this patethic little law. Apply for the test if you haven't already and just continue on as normal. A few Gardai I talked to this morning seem pissed off with it as well, they said they have better things to do than be pulling learners up.

grahamo

Will these new measures mean that provisional licence holders who drive unaccompanied
will not be covered by their insurance policies as their unlawfully on the road?

bugler

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hardly going to make things worse isn't exactly the soundest basis for legislation though. I mean, I can think of laws off the top of my head that might not do much good, but almost certainly won't do harm.

If you accept that this measure is unlikely to lower road deaths or accidents (and I know some won't, but there will be figures to prove this one way or another), then what exactly is this all for?

Who is going to benefit from this? Who is this protecting? To me (a non-driver) this looks like another lame piss and wind affair. We must be seen to do something, ergo we'll stop learners driving alone on Prov licences.

In other news, the Bear Patrol has stepped up its bombing campaign.

Stark

Nope, that's up to the insurance company.

BlackWizard

I'd say I'll continue driving. But I'll be applying for the driving test ASAP once the site is back working again.

If they really start pulling over learners, will anyone consider pulling down the L plates? Of course I would not support such a decision. I'm just curious if people would do it.

I know a few people who are doing it right now so that they can use the M50.

bugler

I'd say Quinn Direct just became even more unattractive.

DarkJager

Better off not to risk taking down the L plates. Supposedly another 1000 euro if your caught without them.

Dancor

Also 420,000 or so drivers applying for the test aint going to help the waiting lists.

NBar

DarkJager wrote: »

A few Gardai I talked to this morning seem pissed off with it as well, they said they have better things to do than be pulling learners up.

What else would they do its the law and it has to be enforcing it hey are paid to do it, these are probably the same tossers you see day in day out looking like they just got out of bed and leaning against a wall near traffic lighst watching cars go throught the red lights etc what a pack of wasters if they enforced the law that was there it might not have got this bad

eringobragh

I seem to remember similar staements made about the smoking ban, and thats been a success due to enforcement

AND before you get on the High horse i know there's a big difference between the 2.

I really feel for you but theey've been talking about cracking down on this for 2 years and there only enforcing a law that was already in place (with the exception of 2nd provisional holder)

As i heard on the radio this morning

Why are they getting rid of all the provionals?

Provisional IRA, Provisional Licences

Maybe they need to get a Real Licence!!!!

parliament

DarkJager wrote: »

I'm going to ignore it, like the majority of drivers. I need to get to work to pay my bills, so couldn't really give a sh1t what the RSA says.

So I guess you wouldn't complain is an unlicensed and uninsured driver hit you and left you to pay the cost cause he has his own worries without having to for insurance, tax and the cost to repair you car!

FFS people its not an unreasonable law, the EU are putting pressure on Ireland over their relaxed attitude, is it really that ridiculous to expect people on the roads to actually becertified fit to drive.

redtom

seems there'll be a certain number of people caught in this waiting-for-test-but-have-to-drive-in-meantime situation, nothing but another amnesty can solve the chaos of these people havin to break the law because they just don't have a qualified driver to sit alongside them... laws to help prevent road deaths are long overdue, but are people with jobs that their families depend on expected to sit at home until a letter arrives sayin they've got a test in 4 weeks?

TheNog

Calina wrote: »

I would take the view that the waiting times could be significantly reduced by people passing the test first go and not having to retake it three and four times. To fail once may be unlucky. To fail four times implies incompetency in driving.

The attitude towards driver training in Ireland has always shocked me. Far too laissez-faire. I am unhappy that someone charged with enforcing legislation would choose not to enforce aspects of that legislation because they sort of feel it is unfair. Is it fair on other road users that one subsection are allowed flout the law with impunity? There is a road code. Most of it is black and white - either something is allowed or is not allowed. You enforce the legislation. It is not up to you to decide whether it is fair or unfair. I drive from Dublin to Limerick on a fairly regular basis. On every single journey, at least one driver I encounter does something that could result in a fatal accident. They may not all be learner drivers but if you allow leeway on one rule, you dilute the system as a whole because people who learn not respect one rule pretty soon learn not to respect the system as a whole and this is evidenced by the attitude of many, many drivers both learners and fully qualified.

What is not fair to the community of drivers as a whole is to allow learner drivers to break the law which directly relates to their status. We all had to wait for driving tests. There is nothing special about the current crop of learners except, it would appear, that they have an attitude of entitlement and no recognition of their responsibilities not to break prevailing legislation.

you are right people should be banned after the third failure of their test.

there is something that law enforcement in most parts of the world have - discretion. A guard can use his discretion in some occasions, mostly for non serious offences. In this case I will use my discretion for drivers who are driving unaccompanied. I will insist that these drivers display L plates as i hvae always done. What I find so unfair is that the timing of these new road laws,there is no effective testing system setup, there is no driver education to speak of.

Here's an example of discretion: you are performing a speed check and you nab a driver coming down a steep hill and he is 5kph over the limit. You check the car and driver on the computer and both are ok. Do you prosecute him?

Of course not

Why? Most of the investigative cases involve people helping the guards to solve. Cases such as theft, robbery, burglary or even the dangerous driving you experience going to and from Limerick. Without the help of people nearly all cases would go unsolved. Now if I was to prosecute everyone for every offence, no matter if those people were good or bad, how do you think I would be able to solve the cases I investigate?

I know where you are coming from. Before I joined I just didn't get the concept of discretion at all until I saw it in practice. For minor road traffic offences I find that people are more receptive of a bit roadside education rather than be brought to court. It always helps if you get that person to go out of their way to prove to you that they are now complying with the law. An example of this is - i stop people everyday for no road tax. For those who are between 2-4 months i give them 2 choices, either take the fine of €80 or get your car taxed and produce it at the station. I also tell them I have no legal power to ask them to produce but I am give them the choice. That is discretion.

For those who don't know any car that's road tax is out over three months can be seized. Those road tax that are just out, there is no grace period of a month. It is just good practice to give those people a chance.

nice1franko

NBar wrote: »

What a load of crap where does it say you are entitled to drive, driving is not a God given right and that is the problem people think they are entitled to drive, that's why we have "Driving Licences" If you can't get to work cause of a storm or snow who do you sue Gerry Scully cause he did not predict it would snow on the Weather Forecast

I love the weather forecast analogy, NBar. Bravo, old bean. I mean the two have so little in common it's like... hmm.

Also, driving licenses become *necesary* when it is *necesary* to live far away from your job so you can afford a place to live.

Goldenquick

It's not at all an unreasonable law, it's the speed with with they expect everyone to comply - which is utterly impossible - 4 days notice?

I'll say it again, get the public transport system working properly and then bring it in. But Bus Eireann will not provide buses for little towns in the country unless they are assured of a full bus load. I wrote to a certain minister about this years ago and his reply from Bus Eireann was just that, they couldn't make it pay, utter rubbish of course as their profits are covered on other routes and their prices are hyped up at the best of times.

For instance where I live, if I have to take my child to hospital, it costs me €30 for a taxi as there is no bus route directly there, other than that, I have to get a bus to a town nearby and wait there for the Dublin bus, get a bus to the hospital, get it back to the nearby town and then get a taxi home (as there is not another bus going to my town until the next day), which costs €14. After paying the buses already and the taxi, it's the guts of another €30.

mada999

DarkJager wrote: »

I didn't vote for them and I never will. Some people in this country are obviously happy to get ****ed over by a government who couldn't organise a ****ing orgy in a brothel...

agreed....my conscience is clean...didn't vote for them either...

squishywishy

If you wanna rant about the law go to another thread....
I started this one just to get find out what people are going to do!!!

Provisional drivers know the risk they wil be taking but we havnt much choice...

Like i said....give me a test date and ill do the test!! I dont want to be waiting and neither do others!!

RANT OVER!! lol

squishywishy

redtom wrote: »

seems there'll be a certain number of people caught in this waiting-for-test-but-have-to-drive-in-meantime situation, nothing but another amnesty can solve the chaos of these people havin to break the law because they just don't have a qualified driver to sit alongside them... laws to help prevent road deaths are long overdue, but are people with jobs that their families depend on expected to sit at home until a letter arrives sayin they've got a test in 4 weeks?

Well said RedTom!!!!
Maith an fear!!!!:D

rant 2000

this is total bull****. i agree the laws have been too relaxed for way too long but you cant just change the rules overnight. for me to stop using my car it would take a whole lifestyle change (and not just cos im a lazy bitch!). id need to get numerous buses to work and once im there im seldom based in the office for the day, in fact never. i have to be out and about. the guy from the rsa was on ray d'arcy. seems like a reasonable enough guy but skillfully dodged the many questions put to him about what we're all supposed to do while we're waiting for our tests to come thru.

also (im not finished ranting yet!) i did my test and it was an absolute sham. testor was horrible and left out part of the test. to look at the feedback sheet after you'd think id never drove but my driving instructor told me just the day b4 i should pass. how are some areas failing over half of all applicants?! i agree that safe driving is important but its not brain surgery - why so many being failed?

Also what happens now when we turn up for our tests alone cos lets face it if its at 9am on a monday u aint gonna have someone with you. will u be failed on da spot?

i think these rules make the presumtion that everyone has access to lots of qulified drivers but if you are from the country living say in dub you dont have your parents and your friends are likely to be in the same boat as yourself! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! :mad::mad::mad:

stas

As many others I protest to the new rules and their enforcement. I went for my job because I knew I could drive to it. Taking public transport will have me spend four hours a day commuting, nevermind 8 euro I'll pay for it and the natural discomfort of using the public transport. What am I to do now? Quit the job I like or break the law? What did they think people will choose most likely? Oh I guess they didn't think of that.

Now, what is the purpose of the accompanying full-licence holder? Will he take the steering away from me in any situation he judges as dangerous? Will he pull the parking break if he decides we need to stop? Is this safe?? Or will he just comment on my driving? Can I drive with a full-licence holder who is mute? Also you'd think that this accompanying full-licence holder must be insured to accompany me in my car. As then if his judgement fails and there's an accident why is it my insurance that needs to pay?

Also, what happens if I don't have a 1000 euros to pay the fine? Will I go to jail? Common sense tells me I won't be alone, is there enough cells?

As for "driving is a privilege, not a right" it sounds more like one of those feudal laws. I always thought that the state is supposed to work for people, not the other way around. Especially if the state is a republic.

PS: My driving test is next month, I'm confident that I drive well, but I'm not confident in passing the test, because other peoples experience suggests that passing it is very random.
And yes, I took driving lessons and the instructor told me I don't need them and am fit to drive.
PPS: I also agree with people who suggest it will just blow away and nothing will change.

parliament

redtom wrote: »

... but are people with jobs that their families depend on expected to sit at home until a letter arrives sayin they've got a test in 4 weeks?

I sympathize with people in this situation but it could be said that someone who is not able to pass/can't be bothered to sit the theory test but still requires the use of a car is just as entitled to start driving illegally.

Everybody in the whole country knew what the waiting test times were like so for anybody who did not apply the day they received their provisional license they can blame nobody but themselves.

As for an amnesty If I was a provisional holder who had paid for lessons, practiced and sat the test only to be told that if you sat on your ass and did nothing the rewards would have been greater (would have saved a ton of time and money) they would be justifiably more upset that current learner drivers. Secondly people who are NOT certified fit to drive should NOT be given licenses...have some sense!

Calina

TheNog wrote: »

you are right people should be banned after the third failure of their test.

there is something that law enforcement in most parts of the world have - discretion. A guard can use his discretion in some occasions, mostly for non serious offences.

Discretion, however, is not a blanket concept. You cannot apply discretion to all incidents of a particular transgression...it is a case by case concept. What you are describing is a decision not to enforce a particular piece of legislation. I understand discretion on a case by case basis. Not on a blanket basis. I'm sorry. You're not implying some occasions here, you're implying all incidents of a particular nature. I don't see that as discretion.

rant 2000

good luck stas! hopefully ur experience will be a bit more pleasant (and successful) than mine!! i reckon that now so many people will be appliying they will be told to ease up a bit and pass a few more. they definitely should be. u never hear of people failing in their droves in the uk or the us so theres defo summit up with our testing system!

Calina

rant 2000 wrote: »

u never hear of people failing in their droves in the uk or the us so theres defo summit up with our testing system!

or potentially with our driver training system, more like. There are some truly appalling drivers - and an increasing number of them - on Irish roads, sorry.

squishywishy

parliament wrote: »

I sympathize with people in this situation but it could be said that someone who is not able to pass/can't be bothered to sit the theory test but still requires the use of a car is just as entitled to start driving illegally.

Everybody in the whole country knew what the waiting test times were like so for anybody who did not apply the day they received their provisional license they can blame nobody but themselves.

Comments like that make me soooooooooooooo angry!!
I applied last march a day after my provisional license arrived in the post and the day that i did my first driving lesson and ive been waiting since!!
My brother applied 2 weeks before me in the same situation and hasnt recieved a date yet so i know that its going to be the new year AT LEAST before either of us get a date!!!

daveirl

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