Changes to the Driver Licencing System Mega Thread

Seth Brundle

jmayo wrote: »

If I was on a provisional license I would think long and hard about leaving for UK. At least you could get a test over there.

Isn't the UK one of those countries with an unfair system whereby learners cannot drive on their own?
If you plan on doing the test there then you need a UK address.

~Marky~ wrote: »

I only just failed my driving test and now it could be up to another 10 months before I do it again its a pain And I just bought a new car that I wont be able to drive until I past my test..

Translation: I was not able to pass a basic competency test but I should be allowed to drive!

funkyflea wrote: »

I'm starting a new job on Tues, and need need need the car. I applied for my test a year ago and failed it on wednesday. I need to reapply asap, but the site is down.

Translation: I was not able to pass a basic competency test but I should be allowed to drive!


When the Road Safety Authority was established in April 2006, these reforms were proposed. In June last year, the 2006 Road Traffic Bill was enacted allowing for these changes. There have been discussions in the media all along that reforms were on there way. When they come people are unprepared and end up getting pissed off. As I said (in either this or a parallel thread), those people who have now been 'inconvienenced' by these reforms have only one person to blame - themselves!

IMO had there been a longer period before enforcing the new rules then people (as they tend to do) wouldn't bother their arse doing much until the last moment. Many have waited until now before doing anything about getting a test booking - would they have immediately rushed out to get a test bokoing had there been a 6 month warning?


As for those who go on about living in rural areas and have no public transport - the exact same situation exists in Northern Ireland, the UK, Europe and so on yet they somehow manage!

orbital83

kbannon wrote: »

Isn't the UK one of those countries with an
unfair system whereby learners cannot drive on their own?

The UK didn't tell you for 30 odd years that you could drive round on your own on a 2nd provisional, living and working accordingly - and then remove this right with 5 days notice.

Situations like this are why the word "phased" is in the English dictionary.

As for those who go on about living in rural areas and have no public transport - the exact same situation exists in Northern Ireland, the UK, Europe and so on yet they somehow manage!

See above

kbannon wrote: »

Translation: I was not able to pass a basic competency test but I should be allowed to drive!

I can see it now.
"RSA spokesman Noel Brett has announced that all fully licensed drivers must be re-tested every 3 years from Tuesday night."

Don't come crying to me when you're failed for applying the clutch a few seconds early, not checking your mirrors 5 times a minute or because the tester had no milk for his cornflakes that morning.

You better run for that bus - there's only one a week after all!

[PS - Fully licensed driver]

Wishbone Ash

kbannon wrote: »

IMO had there been a longer period before enforcing the new rules then people (as they tend to do) wouldn't bother their arse doing much until the last moment. Many have waited until now before doing anything about getting a test booking - would they have immediately rushed out to get a test bokoing had there been a 6 month warning?

Nail and head!

I was discussing this with several non-nationals at work today who are on provisional licences. They weren't aware of any change until I mentioned it. They thought it was so unfair and generally blaming the waiting time for a test. 'When did you apply for the test', I enquired. Sheepish looks all round - none of them had applied!

fifth

Kbannon, it's not always as cut and dry as being able to pass a basic test, did you even read my second post.

Seth Brundle

Im not going back over 28 pages of rants to find it - can you point me to it?

MrPudding

DarkJager wrote: »

Don't pay the fine, then take them to court over the fact that you are losing money because you can't drive to work.

Good luck with that. Let usnow how you got on.

Angelcake wrote: »

I said I live in the middle of nowhere where am I going to walk to? How can I take my child out during the mid term am I going to walk for three or four hours to get to a town with something in it?

How long have you been on a provisional?

~Marky~ wrote: »

I only just failed my driving test and now it could be up to another 10 months before I do it again its a pain And I just bought a new car that I wont be able to drive until I past my test..

How long did you wait for your test?

kbannon wrote: »

Im not going back over 28 pages of rants to find it - can you point me to it?

funkyflea wrote: »

You can't really comment on my test result as you weren't there. I was unfortunate enough to meet a possibly drunk driver on the way who erraticaly pulled out in front of me at a junction into the wrong lane, without indicating, leaving me no time to react, but it apparently was my fault and I got a grade 3 fault for it,

You are right, I was not there but an observation.... The other driver did not leave you no time to react, you left yourself with no time to react. As a driver you should be aware of everything that is going on around you and react accordingly. I am not saying you made a mistake but perhaps there was more you could do.

funkyflea wrote: »

Other than that I feel I am competent enough to pass the test, I am just annoyed that between now and the retest, I'll have to leave my car at home and get a bloody taxi or something to work every morning.

Here is the problem. Lets assume you are a competent driver and your failure was really not your fault. Can you vouch for the other 400k provo drivers? Are you willing to bet your life that they are all as good at driving as you are? This is the problem, of the 400k there probably are some very good drivers, but there are most likely a larger number of poor to dangerous drivers? How do we differentiate between the two? A test of competency perhaps? Oh sorry, that's what you all are whining about....

MrP

Seth Brundle

funkyflea wrote: »

Kbannon, it's not always as cut and dry as being able to pass a basic test, did you even read my second post.

with thanks to MrP...

funkyflea wrote: »

You can't really comment on my test result as you weren't there. I was unfortunate enough to meet a possibly drunk driver on the way who erraticaly pulled out in front of me at a junction into the wrong lane, without indicating, leaving me no time to react, but it apparently was my fault and I got a grade 3 fault for it, I'm not appealing because the decision can't be overturned.

Other than that I feel I am competent enough to pass the test, I am just annoyed that between now and the retest, I'll have to leave my car at home and get a bloody taxi or something to work every morning.

Upon careful consideration, I stand by my post!
You haven't mentioned the actual reason why you failed nor have you described your actions. You could come across a drunk driver at any time. You could come across a kid who tears across the road in front of you, etc. You have to be expecting all of that.

alastair

MrPudding wrote: »

Here is the problem. Lets assume you are a competent driver and your failure was really not your fault. Can you vouch for the other 400k provo drivers? Are you willing to bet your life that they are all as good at driving as you are? This is the problem, of the 400k there probably are some very good drivers, but there are most likely a larger number of poor to dangerous drivers? How do we differentiate between the two? A test of competency perhaps? Oh sorry, that's what you all are whining about....

MrP

Actually - here's the problem:

I'm currently on a second provisional - legally driving alone, and with a test application in process. I've never failed a test - I've been bumped home from the centre once due to the tester going sick, and I've had to cancel one test on account of my car becoming unavailable (long story - and my choice was to use the car I'm used to for the test rather than an unfamiliar driving school car). I drive in a careful manner - always keeping in mind that I'm still relatively inexperienced (three years practise, 15 instructor lessons). I've never as much as bumped a kerb, and I'm a million miles from the boy racer demographic they're aiming to help out.

Waiting times for my test centre currently run about 30 weeks. That's obviously with 100,000 provisional drivers actively applying for a test. Now that there's a potential 400,000 test applicants entering the system in the same few weeks, the wait time is probably going to increase - and certainly won't hit an 8 week wait in February - regardless of what the government claim as a goal.

The intent to stop the situation where people fail a test and drive away alone is obviously a good one, and the casual acceptance of driving alone for years on a learner licence needs to go. I never drove alone on my first provisional - I've been diligent about keeping to the letter of the law. What I'm faced with now however is a scenario where I can't drive alone for probably the next year. I might be able to adhere to that new law, but I'm probably in a minority. The reality is that the timing of this change and test wait times are incompatible. The government is forcibly criminalising currently legal drivers, with no real alternatives available to those drivers. Postponing enforcement until February doesn't help if you've to wait another 6 - 8 months for a test.

Good intentions, terrible implementation.

cazzy

Re the post on the limiters put on cars (redirected here)
What about those sharing cars with learner drivers as happens in a lot of cases.
(Many cars with L plates arent been driven by the Learner all the time)
Often its a kid or a gf/bf of the car owner.

cazzy

alastair wrote: »

Actually - here's the problem:

I'm currently on a second provisional - legally driving alone, and with a test application in process. I've never failed a test - I've been bumped home from the centre once due to the tester going sick, and I've had to cancel one test on account of my car becoming unavailable (long story - and my choice was to use the car I'm used to for the test rather than an unfamiliar driving school car). I drive in a careful manner - always keeping in mind that I'm still relatively inexperienced (three years practise, 15 instructor lessons). I've never as much as bumped a kerb, and I'm a million miles from the boy racer demographic they're aiming to help out.

Waiting times for my test centre currently run about 30 weeks. That's obviously with 100,000 provisional drivers actively applying for a test. Now that there's a potential 400,000 test applicants entering the system in the same few weeks, the wait time is probably going to increase - and certainly won't hit an 8 week wait in February - regardless of what the government claim as a goal.

The intent to stop the situation where people fail a test and drive away alone is obviously a good one, and the casual acceptance of driving alone for years on a learner licence needs to go. I never drove alone on my first provisional - I've been diligent about keeping to the letter of the law. What I'm faced with now however is a scenario where I can't drive alone for probably the next year. I might be able to adhere to that new law, but I'm probably in a minority. The reality is that the timing of this change and test wait times are incompatible. The government is forcibly criminalising currently legal drivers, with no real alternatives available to those drivers. Postponing enforcement until February doesn't help if you've to wait another 6 - 8 months for a test.

Good intentions, terrible implementation.

I agree with you - good intentions they just need something in place for 2nd prov holders but I do agree totlly with what they are tryingto do.
They need to enforece these things though or everyone will slip back to driving on motorways, taking off their L plates, driving unaccompanied etc.

squishywishy

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Nail and head!

I was discussing this with several non-nationals at work today who are on provisional licences. They weren't aware of any change until I mentioned it. They thought it was so unfair and generally blaming the waiting time for a test. 'When did you apply for the test', I enquired. Sheepish looks all round - none of them had applied!

But what about the people who have applied?
The minister talks about a 14 week wait, he clearly cant read cos if he bothered to check or even log onto drivingtest.ie he'd see that many centres have much longer waiting lists!!
I applied in may and with Raheny's 44 week wait it'll be March before i can even sit the stupid test!!!!!!!!
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

squishywishy

The Guards may not get you, but wait until you have an accident and see how the insurance companies react to the fact that you were driving illegally, and see how your cover is affected.

Wont make any odds....we'll all still be covered!!!
Irish Insurance Federation site says so
http://www.iif.ie/press-release-article.aspx?article=fb588edf-82ea-45ae-8b49-79d81389b5ef

eringobragh

squishywishy wrote: »

Wont make any odds....we'll all still be covered!!!
Irish Insurance Federation site says so
http://www.iif.ie/press-release-article.aspx?article=fb588edf-82ea-45ae-8b49-79d81389b5ef

As they saying goes paper never refused ink, etc,etc. The insurance company well tell to **** off when push comes to shove.

There's going to be a blatant disregard for the law made by 'L' drivers and you can be sure that your numbers will diminish when an example is made out of a few of you.

MrPudding

alastair wrote: »

Actually - here's the problem:

I'm currently on a second provisional - legally driving alone, and with a test application in process. I've never failed a test - I've been bumped home from the centre once due to the tester going sick, and I've had to cancel one test on account of my car becoming unavailable (long story - and my choice was to use the car I'm used to for the test rather than an unfamiliar driving school car). I drive in a careful manner - always keeping in mind that I'm still relatively inexperienced (three years practise, 15 instructor lessons). I've never as much as bumped a kerb, and I'm a million miles from the boy racer demographic they're aiming to help out.

Actually, that is your problem not the problem.... Again, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, I will assume that you are an excellent driver, even though you have never sat a test. I will ask you the same question as I have already asked in this thread and which I have asked before in other threads, how do we differentiate provo drivers that can drive and provo drivers that can't?

MrP

A-Trak

MrPudding wrote: »

Actually, that is your problem not the I will ask you the same question as I have already asked in this thread and which I have asked before in other threads, how do we differentiate provo drivers that can drive and provo drivers that can't?

Let us sit the test in a realistic timeframe.

If the legeslation was put back in line with the longest wait time for a driving test, there could be no arguement.

I'm in the exact same boat as Alistar, 2nd provisional, have never taken a test due extenuating circumstances. Am waiting to be given a chance.

If I could sit a test this evening I would, if I failed I would have not proven myself a competent driver.

Pushing it through in 5 days with no change to the test wait times is what I don't agree with.

alastair

MrPudding wrote: »

Actually, that is your problem not the problem.... Again, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, I will assume that you are an excellent driver, even though you have never sat a test. I will ask you the same question as I have already asked in this thread and which I have asked before in other threads, how do we differentiate provo drivers that can drive and provo drivers that can't?

MrP

Nope - the problem of bad drivers is nothing new - this approach won't change anything on that front without actually providing access to tests. That's the new problem - a problem of the state's devising and no-one elses. There isn't any realistic capacity to test the numbers within the time provided, so there isn't any option for many but to break the law. For someone in my position, with no alternatives, it's a forced shift from legally driving to illegally driving. Forcing people into a situation where they become law-breakers isn't good legislation, and it's not as if there weren't practical alternative approaches available to the state.

MrPudding

A-Trak wrote: »

Let us sit the test in a realistic timeframe.

You are on your second provisional. What is that 3 years? 4 on a provisional? Exactly what is a realistic timeframe?

A-Trak wrote: »

If the legeslation was put back in line with the longest wait time for a driving test, there could be no arguement.

What was the longest wait for a test during your period of being on a provisional and how long have you held a provisional?

A-Trak wrote: »

I'm in the exact same boat as Alistar, 2nd provisional, have never taken a test due extenuating circumstances. Am waiting to be given a chance.

How long have you been waiting?

A-Trak wrote: »

Pushing it through in 5 days with no change to the test wait times is what I don't agree with.

Will tere ever be a period with which people are happy? I think not.

alastair wrote: »

Nope - the problem of bad drivers is nothing new - this approach won't change anything on that front without actually providing access to tests. That's the new problem - a problem of the state's devising and no-one elses. There isn't any realistic capacity to test the numbers within the time provided, so there isn't any option for many but to break the law. For someone in my position, with no alternatives, it's a forced shift from legally driving to illegally driving. Forcing people into a situation where they become law-breakers isn't good legislation, and it's not as if there weren't practical alternative approaches available to the state.

I am sorry, I have tried really hard. I have thought long and hard about it but I am completely, totally and utterly unable to muster up even an ounce of sympathy. Regardless of wha people are used to the way things are / were is fcuking retarded. There has to be a correction.

MrP

Calina

alastair wrote: »

Nope - the problem of bad drivers is nothing new - this approach won't change anything on that front without actually providing access to tests. That's the new problem - a problem of the state's devising and no-one elses. There isn't any realistic capacity to test the numbers within the time provided, so there isn't any option for many but to break the law. For someone in my position, with no alternatives, it's a forced shift from legally driving to illegally driving. Forcing people into a situation where they become law-breakers isn't good legislation, and it's not as if there weren't practical alternative approaches available to the state.

There are always alternatives. The issue is they may not be palatable to you personally.

Look, I've tried really hard. I really have. The issue is not new. 8 years ago there was an 11 month wait in my local test centre. I got by without a car for those 11 months because dammit I had to - it was the law. Maybe I'm the idiot for doing it but hell the issue in this country is flagrant disregard for the law and it is the first thing many learners learn by the looks of things.

The key issue is the failure rate and the multiple failure rate. I can take one failure. But there are people admitting failing up to 4 times here. I realise you're not one of them but you have to understand that we who have actually gotten through what is generally accepted not to be a particularly onerous practical driving test are very concerned that people are incapable of passing it after two, three and four attempts are driving anyway. I mean I failed my driving test first time out. I did not drive home from the test centre, but was driven home by my instructor.

LadyE

http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/News/Navigation.html

I know that the new law affects them the most, as they drive alone now...BUT

I have a first prov license, and I applied months ago for my test..well before the new law came in - am I to assume that my application that came in months ago, will be seconded to applications by people that only applied yesterday who have a provisional license!!???

Grrr I depersatly need to use a car AND ILL BE WAITING EVEN LONGER NOW!!!

alastair

Calina wrote: »

There are always alternatives. The issue is they may not be palatable to you personally.

Look, I've tried really hard. I really have. The issue is not new. 8 years ago there was an 11 month wait in my local test centre. I got by without a car for those 11 months because dammit I had to - it was the law. Maybe I'm the idiot for doing it but hell the issue in this country is flagrant disregard for the law and it is the first thing many learners learn by the looks of things.

You're just reaffirming my point. I have never broken the law by using a car illegally. Every driver on a second provisional who currently drives legally, and is waiting for a test, is now going to either have to find a constant passenger with two years on a full licence, find an alternative means of transport (not always an option), or break the law. Which option do you believe will be the favoured one, realistically?

The way the state has framed the changeover to a new learner regime does nothing but coerce people into law-breaking. If there was a route towards getting a test before the change in legal status the whole ballgame would be sensible, but without it, it's a nonsense and feeds into that mindset of selective respect for laws you rightfully highlighted.

MrPudding

One question. Have you held a provisional licence for longer than the longest waiting time?

MrP

JamesM

The Guards may not get you, but wait until you have an accident and see how the insurance companies react to the fact that you were driving illegally, and see how your cover is affected.

squishywishy wrote: »

Wont make any odds....we'll all still be covered!!!
Irish Insurance Federation site says so
http://www.iif.ie/press-release-article.aspx?article=fb588edf-82ea-45ae-8b49-79d81389b5ef

That's good to see !
The reason I brought it up is that I know of a case in the UK, where an insurance company insisted that a person was covered for towing an 8 ft caravan (legal limit in UK is 7 ft 6 ins). When there was an accident, they said that they could not cover him because he was driving illegally.

rant 2000

lads is anyone clear on what the story is with 2nd prov's as of tues? the minister have said the guards wont be prosecuting people or setting up licence checks on mon - i.e this will be brought in gradually. the guards have said they will be enforcing it. is it just a gamble whether u stopped by get a reasonable garda or will they have been instructed not to be charging people?! help!!! :eek:

Seth Brundle

Second provisionals are being treated as any other provisional - you need someone who has had a full licence for at least two years sitting beside you. If you don't then you are breaking the law and subject to whatever charge the garda feels you deserve.
The gardai say they will apply the law as it is written The Minister for Transport (who has no jurisdiction over the gardai) says they will give a bit of leeway. You decide what you want to do!

snappieT

With regard to the rule saying you must wait 6 months from having a provisional before you can sit your test:
I have a provisional 2 months or so, and have applied for the test. I'm seeking cancellations, and going to get a letter from my employer saying I need to drive so I get pushed up the list (I actually do need to drive on my own from remote places at odd hours)
I have applied for the test, but I do not yet have a date.
Will I have to wait for 6 months from the date of issue of my provisional?

Wishbone Ash

snappieT wrote: »

Will I have to wait for 6 months[/b] from the date of issue of my provisional?

No - as you will have come under the 'old' system.

ec18

its inly 6 months from the start of your first provisional right, not every time you renew?



Sorry if this seems like a stupid question

Wishbone Ash

Minister for Transport has just announced that he is postponing the requirement for the 122,000 2nd provisional licence holders from the requirement to be accompanied until 30th June next.

MrPudding

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Minister for Transport has just announced that he is postponing the requirement for the 122,000 2nd provisional licence holders from the requirement to be accompanied until 30th June next.

So stop whining and sit a fcuking test already.

MrP

Cionád

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Minister for Transport has just announced that he is postponing the requirement for the 122,000 2nd provisional licence holders from the requirement to be accompanied until 30th June next.

Hilarious, but sensible.