Changes to the Driver Licencing System Mega Thread

Wishbone Ash

MrPudding wrote: »

So stop whining and sit a fcuking test already.

MrP

MrPudding,

As moderator of the Learning to Drive Forum, I think I'm entitled to report important matters relating to this Forum without it being referred to as whinging.


As for sitting a test, I already hold a full, unrestricted and clean licence in all 14 categories

okcomputer

ON RTE NEWS:

Does this mean that if you have a second provisional u are grand but all other prov license holders are feckered?

"The learner driver rules announced during the week are to be deferred.

Minister Noel Dempsey said on RTÉ's This Week programme that he was deferring the introduction of the accompanied driver provision until 30 June 2008.

The proposed scheme would have meant that motorists on a second provisional driving licence would no longer be able to drive alone from midnight tomorrow.
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Under the scheme, motorists on second licences would need to be accompanied by drivers who have held full licences for at least two years.

Speaking on RTE's Marian Finucane programme earlier, Fianna Fáil MEP Eoin Ryan had said he gathered the minister, Noel Dempsey, would announce today that the scheme will not be introduced immediately.

A statement from the Dept of Transport said that from Tuesday next all new applicants for driving licences will be issued with a learner permit.

The rules applying to a new applicant's learner permit will stipulate that:
· The holder must be accompanied by a driver who has had a full licence for at least two years;
· The holder must have the permit for a minimum of 6 months of supervised practice before applying for a test.

From 30 June 2008 all provisional licence holders must be accompanied by a fully licenced driver of at least two years experience. "

Bronaaagh

Good news and an altogether more sensible approach. I've been pleasantly surprised by the Irish people power over the last few days!

okcomputer, 1st license holders were never allowed to drive alone anyway. All other provisional holders are ok until June '08. These new rules will only affect those starting to drive now, which is fair.

okcomputer

Bronaaagh wrote: »

Good news and an altogether more sensible approach. I've been pleasantly surprised by the Irish people power over the last few days!

okcomputer, 1st license holders were never allowed to drive alone anyway. All other provisional holders are ok until June '08. These new rules will only affect those starting to drive now, which is fair.

yer but it was never really enforced anyway. i suppose the guards will still be turning a blind eye until June but jeez you never know how they are thinking now

Bronaaagh

Yeah, I'm gathering that it will be enforced, but this IS the Irish Gardai we're talking about. They seem to have a hard time enforcing anything well!

okcomputer

Two questions:

Dont people on third provisionals need an accompanying driver?
If your second provisional is near expiry, you will have a learner permit issued and be lumped in with the newbies?

minxmad

my husbands first provisional is out of date next week and he was planning to get his 2nd provisional next week...He has applied for his test in August and there is a 14 week wait in limerick..so we think he will get his test date late nov or december.
As he has to renew his 1st provisional (was due to get 2nd provisional) and will now get learners permit next week does this mean he has to wait 6 months before he can do his test though he has already applied for it?

He needs his car for work

MrPudding

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

MrPudding,

As moderator of the Learning to Drive Forum, I think I'm entitled to report important matters relating to this Forum without it being referred to as whinging.


As for sitting a test, I already hold a full, unrestricted and clean licence in all 14 categories

Wishbone, I am very sorry. The comment was not aimed at you.... I know you have passed a test, it was eant for the dozens of poster that have been complaining about no longer being able to drive on their own under the current idiotic system.

Apologises for the misunderstanding.

MrP

PixelTrawler

June 30th 2008

NewApproach

I am quite confused by the current situation.

I'm on my first provisional, and have my test this Friday.

I had two lessons before hand.

Should I drive unaccompanied from Tuesday? (have done up to now, and nothing has changed with ragards to this since, except they appear to be getting a bit tough)

Apparently on the radio an important person (dont know who, didn't hear it) said they were implementing it on only an advisory basis until Feburary.

So, basically, am I ok to drive unaccompanied until Friday, when hopefully I will pass my test?

Cionád

NewApproach wrote: »

So, basically, am I ok to drive unaccompanied until Friday, when hopefully I will pass my test?

Technically, you could get in trouble. However I would say the odds of being both stopped and being stopped by an unreasonable Garda is unlikey.

Be sure to pass your test though.

Observation, Observation, Observation.

Gadgie

New link.

I'm not sure how they will prioritise 2nd provisional holders since they don't know the status of your licence until you arrive at the test centre.

Brods

I have an expired 1st provisional licence and had been meaning to renew it as I am due to get reinsured on my parents car, can anyone tell me what the situation will be for me with regards to driving unaccompanied? thanks


Edit

Measure A holder of a second provisional licence/learner permit for a car must be accompanied at all times.

Commencement Date From 30 June 2008.

So ill be on a second permit??

Wishbone Ash

Bronaaagh wrote: »

1st license holders were never allowed to drive alone anyway. All other provisional holders are ok until June '08

That is incorrect. Persons who hold a 2nd provisional in category B only may continue to drive unaccompanied until 30th June next. 1st, 3rd and subsequent provisional licence holders must be accompanied as normal but, in addition, the accompanied driver must have held the driving licence for at least 2 years.

okcomputer wrote: »

yer but it was never really enforced anyway

4,000 provisional licence holders were convicted of driving unaccompanied last year.

okcomputer wrote: »

Dont people on third provisionals need an accompanying driver?

Yes (unless it's in categories A,A1,M or W)

okcomputer wrote:

If your second provisional is near expiry, you will have a learner permit issued and be lumped in with the newbies?

The Learner Permit will reflect the fact that it's a 3rd provisional licence permit.

minxmad wrote: »

my husbands first provisional is out of date next week and he was planning to get his 2nd provisional next week...He has applied for his test in August and there is a 14 week wait in limerick..

He waited 1 year and 9 months after the issue of the 1st provisional licence before applying for a test! He should have applied sooner.

minxmad wrote:

does this mean he has to wait 6 months before he can do his test though he has already applied for it?

No.

Brods wrote: »

I have an expired 1st provisional licence and had been meaning to renew it as I am due to get reinsured on my parents car, can anyone tell me what the situation will be for me with regards to driving unaccompanied? ........

.....So ill be on a second permit??

Brods - it depends on how long the 1st provisional licence has expired. If it's more than 5 years then you go back to another 1st provisional. If it's less than 5 years, you may obtain a 2nd licence but you will be required to be accompanied as you are not an "existing" 2nd licence holder.

Wishbone Ash

Gadgie wrote: »

I'm not sure how they will prioritise 2nd provisional holders since they don't know the status of your licence until you arrive at the test centre.

It is up to 2nd licence holders to make contact immediately if they wish to be prioritised.

Thread Merged.

Gregor Samsa

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

4,000 provisional licence holders were convicted of driving unaccompanied last year.

Do you mind me asking for a source for that statistic? I fear you may have fallen foul of the Minister's sleight of hand.

According to the Indo:

And when asked how many provisional licence holders had been brought before the courts in the past for driving unaccompanied, Mr Dempsey side-stepped the question saying that last year some 4,000 people had been prosecuted for not having a licence, which was a separate offence.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dempsey-admits-his-neck-is-on-the-line-1207057.html

There's a difference between the offences of driving without a licence, and driving unaccompanied on a provisional. There's also a big difference between being prosecuted and being convicted...

squishywishy

JamesM wrote: »

The Guards may not get you, but wait until you have an accident and see how the insurance companies react to the fact that you were driving illegally, and see how your cover is affected.



That's good to see !
The reason I brought it up is that I know of a case in the UK, where an insurance company insisted that a person was covered for towing an 8 ft caravan (legal limit in UK is 7 ft 6 ins). When there was an accident, they said that they could not cover him because he was driving illegally.

It has something to do with the fact that when a provisional driver gets insurance they tell the insurance company that they have a provisional so the company has all the details. they dont ask if you're gonna drive alone or not. if they did and you said you'd always drive with somebody and crashed on yuor own your insurance would be invalid cos you didnt drive under the terms of the insurance.

In the UK case above the person had agreed to only tow 7ft 6 ins so by towing 7 he'd broken it

its a bit of a loophole but its fair play if ya ask me, they charge provisional drivers more for that reason it seems

squishywishy

eringobragh wrote: »

As they saying goes paper never refused ink, etc,etc. The insurance company well tell to **** off when push comes to shove.

There's going to be a blatant disregard for the law made by 'L' drivers and you can be sure that your numbers will diminish when an example is made out of a few of you.

They cant, not only have they themselves said it but i know people who have crashed on a provisional license and werent asked if they were alone or not!

Stark

If you've declared that you're on a provisional license and your insurance company hasn't stipulated that you don't drive unaccompanied, then they have to honour third party claims. They are entitled to sue the driver for costs, but this doesn't happen in practice. They're not obliged to honour comprehensive claims, but again most do in practice.

A minority of insurance companies do specify that named drivers with provisionals only drive in the presence of the policy holder, but this is made very obvious to you when you sign up with them. You also get to be put on the policy for peanuts, which is how it should be for all insurance policies imo.

rosieposie-x

ok guys, this whole new legislation is absolutly crazy!!! i mean what are they thinkin? how are people meant to get from a to b? i havnt got a prov licence yet as iv been saving for a car as i need 1 to get to work and college and now just as im buying one ,they bring in this crazy law!! its madness as they think its goin to stop road deaths how will it? i no people who are 17 , have their full licence and can drive better than an awful lot of people who have had their full licence for years!! and now people around our age cant get the chance to do our drivin test for 8 months after gettin our provisional or "drivers permit" should i say! even when i do get my licence and want to use my car to get to school and work my friends who have their full licences or even my mother cant accompany me in the car as they havnt had their full licence for 2 years!!!! if you have your full licence is that not it? how can 2 years make a difference and if it does then whats the point in passing the test in the first place?

RosieRo

I was one of those who out of the fear of bus journeys booked a test on Saturday.

I got a confirmation back today addressed to Stephen Dempsey. My name is Roisin. And I'm a girl. Not Stephen, who I assume is a boy. Crazy fools!

So Stephen, if you're out there, your test is all booked. You'll receive your test date in the post. Good luck!

Stark

rosieposie-x wrote: »

ok guys, this whole new legislation is absolutly crazy!!! i mean what are they thinkin? how are people meant to get from a to b? i havnt got a prov licence yet as iv been saving for a car as i need 1 to get to work and college and now just as im buying one ,they bring in this crazy law!! its madness as they think its goin to stop road deaths how will it? i no people who are 17 , have their full licence and can drive better than an awful lot of people who have had their full licence for years!! and now people around our age cant get the chance to do our drivin test for 8 months after gettin our provisional or "drivers permit" should i say! even when i do get my licence and want to use my car to get to school and work my friends who have their full licences or even my mother cant accompany me in the car as they havnt had their full licence for 2 years!!!! if you have your full licence is that not it? how can 2 years make a difference and if it does then whats the point in passing the test in the first place?

You can't even spell or string a coherent sentence together, yet you expect to be able to buy a car then start driving it to work/college straight away even though you don't know how to drive. And now the mean old Government expects you to learn to drive before you actually start driving on your own. Oh boohoo.

Seth Brundle

rosieposie-x wrote: »

ok guys, this whole new legislation is absolutly crazy!!! i mean what are they thinkin? how are people meant to get from a to b? i havnt got a prov licence yet as iv been saving for a car as i need 1 to get to work and college and now just as im buying one ,they bring in this crazy law!! its madness as they think its goin to stop road deaths how will it? i no people who are 17 , have their full licence and can drive better than an awful lot of people who have had their full licence for years!! and now people around our age cant get the chance to do our drivin test for 8 months after gettin our provisional or "drivers permit" should i say! even when i do get my licence and want to use my car to get to school and work my friends who have their full licences or even my mother cant accompany me in the car as they havnt had their full licence for 2 years!!!! if you have your full licence is that not it? how can 2 years make a difference and if it does then whats the point in passing the test in the first place?

Jeesh, how do I address this one???
1. How do you manage to get around now? Why will you not be able to continue once you get a provisional?
2. Your mates who are 17 have a full licence - it obviously didn't take them long between getting the first prov and completing the test! Why can't you do it the same as them?
3. I couldn't be bothered continuing repeating the same things
4. when you do manage to get to school (by whatever means) ask your english teacher if they give grinds!

Dapos

Ok I have a question. I'm on a second provisional license. My test is on next month. If i pass this do i get a full license or a restricted license and have to put up R plates? Or does this just apply to those who get a license from tomorrow (actually five minutes away!) only or will it apply to me.

Also what will be the restrictions? I hope they don't introduce reduced speed limits as i wonder how many accidents are cause by frustrated drivers behind slow vechicles!

slade_x

What will happen to provisional license holders premiums now, will they go right down to a sane amount?

Seth Brundle

Dapos wrote: »

Ok I have a question. I'm on a second provisional license. My test is on next month. If i pass this do i get a full license or a restricted license and have to put up R plates? Or does this just apply to those who get a license from tomorrow (actually five minutes away!) only or will it apply to me.

Also what will be the restrictions? I hope they don't introduce reduced speed limits as i wonder how many accidents are cause by frustrated drivers behind slow vechicles!

Looking at the publication, it states on Pg. 89:

Require drivers having passed the driving test to display R plates during the first two years of holding a driving licence.
There is no restricted licence system at present.

This does not appear to have initiated from looking at the available documentation (or at least there is no clarity on it).

slade_x wrote: »

What will happen to provisional license holders premiums now, will they go right down to a sane amount?

I don't see insurance prices dropping until they manage to see the stats changing.

boopolo

I think it is about time that they brought out a law to stop provisional licence holders taking charge of a vehicle without a qualified driver sitting beside them.

The only mistake I feel they made was to set it for this week in the first place. They should have given more than a few days notice first time round.

Then they turn around and say it will not be enforced till the new year.

IMHO the bottom line is:

'If you are good enough of a driver to drive solo, you will pass your test first time, so you should have no worries'

'If you are not good enough of a driver to drive solo, you will fail your test, and I will have no worries meeting you on the road'

'For every person who fails his or her test in the future, it will be one more unsafe driver not driving on the road solo (without a qualified driver sitting beside them)'

Regards
Boo

DjeInSlanchaLan

I think the new system will only be fair for actualy the drivers that are put in danger by un trained and dangerous learners that took the wrong habits

Nearly every week i see a learner doing something just stupid and careless, this behavior will be cut down by real training system.

it do work for example france who got there death toll bringed down by such a drastic change.

fotr what i know death toll went down due to more training and automatic speedcatcher that are rentlessly taking point away (in france you start with 12 points and loose them).

There is 2 way of learning driving, when you have 16 you can enroll to lear how to drive coached, you have to passs a theoritical test then you are train how to drive by a professional then you are allow to drive coached by your parents, at NO time you are allow to drive alone, and every 6 month you must have a review with the driving school, in case of offense i think the offence is shared between the driver and the coach making the coach very sensitive to the dirver behavior. when the learner reach 18 he can pass his driving license

it is a proven learning system has insurance provide standard rate for young driver that did this training when they obtain there driving licence

for people that learn at 18 they have to pass the theoritical test before be allowed to lear how to drive they have to do a minimum of 20 hours of training before be allowed to pass the driving test. Driver who chose this option will have there insurance rate doubled for the first 2 years

the driving test last 35 min with 25 min of driving, it must cover urban driving, with 1 or 2 questions about the safety element of the car, then there is a maneuver ( parc the car between 2 cars or U turn in 3 points,...) then there is driving in country side. During this test mistake are not allowed, any mistake or if at anytime the driver do not check his mirror, dead angle, the student fail automaticaly the test (1 st time sucess 50 %).

During the 1st two year the young driver will have to wear an A sign like the L here, they have a compulsory speed limit who is 20 kph below the standard roed limit (example, a motorway at 130Kph limit will be 110 for him, a motorway who is 110 will be 90 and so on except for 50 and 30 kph zone)
during those 2 year the driver will have only a 6 points allowance and every offence will have the amount of point double.

Also driving without a license is penilized of 5 year with total interdiction of passing any state exam (living cert included) or register your self to any university plus 15 000 € fine and a year in jail

fine for offense such as

drink driving :
legal limit 0.5 mg/litre of blod
between 0.5 and 0.8 : 6 points penalty + 135 €
over 0.8 : 6 points penalty + up tu 4500 € fine + up to 2 year in jail

in case of accident
if there is harmed people the fine pass up to 30 000 € and it is up to 3 year in jail
if there is a dead the fine is up to 150 000 € and it is up to 10 year in jail

speeding
20 Kph over speed limit : 135 € + 1 point
between 20 to 30 Kph over speed limit : 135 € + 2 points
between 30 to 40 Kph over speed limit : 135 € + 3 points + up to 3 years of driving license suspension
between 40 to 50 Kph over speed limit : 135 € + 4 points + up to 3 years of driving license suspension.
over 50 kph : 1500 € + 6 points + suspention of driving licence onsite and convocation in front of the court.

is it still to hard ?

Bronaaagh

"boopolo", that's all well and good but everyone knows that the testing system is a mess in this country. Good drivers fail for ridiculous reasons the same way bad drivers pass for who-knows-what reasons. It's all about quotas and percentages. And no, I haven't sat my test yet, I'm still waiting on a date! :mad:

Wishbone Ash

Dapos wrote:

My test is on next month. If i pass this do i get a full license or a restricted license

Neither! If you pass you will get a Certificate of Competency. It is up to you to use that to obtain a full licence.

A restricted licence is given to those who obtain a Certificate of Competency but have passed the test in a vehicle which deviates from the normal one, e.g. automatic transmission, hand operated brakes, hand operated accelerator etc.

Dapos wrote:

and have to put up R plates?

That hasn't been implemented yet.

Bronaaagh wrote: »

It's all about quotas and percentages

:rolleyes: