Changes to the Driver Licencing System Mega Thread

boohoody

wil wrote: »

Why have you posted this in more than 1 thread. Now its starting to look like spam.
So you do mean Gay Byrne not Noel Brett
Apart from my previous reply, how are you aware he has never taken the test because AFAIAA he is quoted as saying not only has he taken the test, he has done the advanced test and motorcycle test. (stipulation by wife or Bone or someone, before getting on his Harley)
So Mr Hogan, I see you got one vote so far, you are still one vote off a "we" in "we the undersigned":o Would you not sign it yourself?

Hi Wil,

No gay byrne has not taken the driving test and while I was listening to the Matt Cooper show on the day that these new regulations came out Gay Byrne was asked if he did the driving test to which he said "no, there was no test back then" and then was asked if he would do the driving test to which he answered "no i don't feel i need to" its not a matter of needing to or feeling like it. If it was today's standard he would be breaking the law. If the man who is setting the standard for our driving can dictate and change rules when he wants then the people of Ireland should be able request that he take the driving test.

cc

a lot of provisional drivers here are giving out about people with full licences who freely admit driving unaccompanied before passing the test. I am one of them. I don't think though this was the best system in the world even though i freely took advantage of the 2nd prov rule, but it doesn't mean i forfeit my right to think otherwise! I got up off my arse and passed the test unlike tens of thousands who didn't bother. I also smoke, but in hindsight i also think the smoking ban was a good idea.

Gauge

What's the story with ringing the test centre up or writing a letter and saying you'll take a test at very short notice? My employer won't give me a letter and I'm tearing my hair out at the thought of not being able to sit my test for another 5/6 months or so.

bonkey

boohoody wrote: »

If it was today's standard he would be breaking the law.

So your basic complaint is that if the law was different, he'd be breaking it.

D'ya know what...that applies to everyone.

If the man who is setting the standard for our driving can dictate and change rules when he wants then the people of Ireland should be able request that he take the driving test.

1) He can't dictate and change rules when he wants
2) You are entitled to request that he takes the test. You're just not entitled to require him to take the test.

Gregor Samsa

okcomputer wrote: »

Question on Checkpoints - Is there anyway to avoid them?

Reason I am asking is that I presume they are easy to spot, is there anyway of:

1) pulling over until the checkpoint has been abandoned ( I realise this could take hours)
2) turning back?

Are any of the above a good idea?

Your best bet would be to pull up at the checkpoint and quietly tell the guards "These aren't the droids you're looking for", while waving your hand in front of their faces. They'll let you through no bother then.

squishywishy

Gauge wrote: »

What's the story with ringing the test centre up or writing a letter and saying you'll take a test at very short notice? My employer won't give me a letter and I'm tearing my hair out at the thought of not being able to sit my test for another 5/6 months or so.

Guage
RSA told me that people on the cancellation list may find themselves there for up to a year now because most people who get a test date now are likely to sit it due to the enforcement of the law. i need my car and was going to get a letter too btu now im just going to sit and wait. 5 months is better than 15!!!

Tingo

dollydrops wrote: »

I am risking driving on my first provisional licence. I applied for my test 6 weeks ago for the Tallaght centre and according to the RSA website there is a 26 week waiting time.

Not definitely certain about this, but someone told me that the Tallaght test centre is closed. You might want to ring them up and see, or pop into the test centre. Like I siad, not a confirmed fact, but it would be in your interest to check it out.

givyjoe81

Stark wrote: »

Just because other people got away with breaking the law doesn't mean you get to shout and whine and demand that you be allowed break it as well.



If you bothered to apply for your test when you bought your car, then your test date will be due very shortly, especially with them bumping up capacity to deal with the onslought of test applications in the past week.



Insurance companies give refunds if you cancel before the end of the year.



If you make an obvious show of trying to dodge the checkpoint, you'll land yourself in a whole heap of ****.

are you for real? thats the kind of attitude my friend spoke of, would i be correct in saying you have a full licence?? course you do, thats why you think im "whining", did you read my post?? i have NO ONE who can "babysit"me in the passenger seat, so my car (if im to obery the 'law',) will sit idly by, rusting outside my house for the guts of a year. why should i not be afforded the same luxury that current full licence holders availed of, i dont think id be wrong in saying the most of the drivers currrently on the road,(full licence holders) "broke" the law at some point while they were waiting on the test, i expect to be treated fairly, thats what, i dont think suddenly enforcing a rule which has been around for decades without consequence, should be meddled with over a weekend. lets not bull**** it was never enforced whether it was or should have been.

the cheek, "if i had bothered"!!, well if i wasnt so damn stupid in believing the crap the goverment have been spouting about reduced waiting times for tests back when i got my car, then maybe i would have, but i didnt want to apply til i was confident of passing, thinking i could believe government agencies (silly me). and how stupid of me to think that they wouldn't start enforcing a rule which hasn't been for decades since it was introduced(not sure how long the system was in place so correct me if im wrong).

this rubbish of increased capacity is just propaganda, it would have been a min six months anyway before this whole fiasco, but god knows how much longer it will be now.

a little sympathy would be nice.

givyjoe81

i have just read that the tallaght test centre is now closed?! wtf?! are we in living in la la land or what?? why on earth is a test centre, which is located in a city suburb which inhabits several hundred thousand people been closed down?! further to this, why was i able to book my test for tallaght when its closed, why am i not able to get through to the number provided to me by the RSA to confirm my test?! how on earth do they expect to reduce waiting times particularly after last weeks good news. oh the number they give has been enaged since about march if a post i read is accurate, seen it the other day, spent the afternoon the other day trying to get through.

Oh and although tallaght has to go without you willl be glad to know that navan has two test centre's so thats ok.

Stark

givyjoe81 wrote:

the cheek, "if i had bothered"!!, well if i wasnt so damn stupid in believing the crap the goverment have been spouting about reduced waiting times for tests back when i got my car, then maybe i would have, but i didnt want to apply til i was confident of passing, thinking i could believe government agencies (silly me). and how stupid of me to think that they wouldn't start enforcing a rule which hasn't been for decades since it was introduced(not sure how long the system was in place so correct me if im wrong).

If you weren't confident of passing, then you shouldn't have been driving on your own, end of story.

MrPudding

givyjoe81 wrote: »

are you for real? thats the kind of attitude my friend spoke of, would i be correct in saying you have a full licence?? course you do, thats why you think im "whining",

What would you call it? It seems like whining.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

did you read my post?? i have NO ONE who can "babysit"me in the passenger seat,

Oh, OK then. Sorry. I did not realise that you were that one single person in the whole of Ireland that does not have someone to accompany them, sorry about that.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

so my car (if im to obery the 'law',) will sit idly by, rusting outside my house for the guts of a year.

Why did you buy something that you could not legally use in the manner you wnated to use it? Seriously. When you guys start whining about your car that you bought and how you can no longer drive it (even though you were never allowed to) the tiny tiny germ of sympathy that I could just about detect in myself disappears in a flash.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

why should i not be afforded the same luxury that current full licence holders availed of, i dont think id be wrong in saying the most of the drivers currrently on the road,(full licence holders) "broke" the law at some point while they were waiting on the test, i expect to be treated fairly, thats what,

People used to be able to kill other people with no legal consequence. Does that mean I can kill people that irriate me because other used to be able to? It might be useful actually, the waiting list would be much shorter for a test....

givyjoe81 wrote: »

i dont think suddenly enforcing a rule which has been around for decades without consequence, should be meddled with over a weekend.

Yeah I know, they only said they were going to change it a year or two ago.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

lets not bull**** it was never enforced whether it was or should have been.

So what? It is being enforced now. Better late than never.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

the cheek, "if i had bothered"!!, well if i wasnt so damn stupid in believing the crap the goverment have been spouting about reduced waiting times for tests back when i got my car,

You mean the car you cannot or indeed could not legally drive on your own when you bought it, which is what you planned to do with ot all along?

givyjoe81 wrote: »

then maybe i would have, but i didnt want to apply til i was confident of passing,

Yet you were confident enough to head out on the roads with other road users?

givyjoe81 wrote: »

thinking i could believe government agencies (silly me). and how stupid of me to think that they wouldn't start enforcing a rule which hasn't been for decades since it was introduced(not sure how long the system was in place so correct me if im wrong).

Basing a part of your life on the hope that an imcompetant government under fire for road deaths and under pressure to change idiotic laws and enforce existing laws would not infact change those laws is idiotic.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

this rubbish of increased capacity is just propaganda, it would have been a min six months anyway before this whole fiasco, but god knows how much longer it will be now.

I guess only time will tell.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

a little sympathy would be nice.

Not a chance. Speaking as someone that learned how to drive in the north where driving unaccompanied simply did not happen I have absolutly no sympathy. None.

MrP

Wishbone Ash

givyjoe81 wrote:

have to be honest though, i 'learned' in the space of six days,

givyjoe81 wrote:

i am an extremly safe driver

givyjoe81 wrote:

i didnt want to apply til i was confident of passing

So you applied six days after getting your provisional licence?

Please use upper case when appropriate (as previously requested ).

givyjoe81

You guys really should get down off your high horses, your so full of it. it actually astonishes me..

Please tell me how on earth you guys learned to drive and answer one simple question.. Did you ever drive while on a provisional on your own?? Simple yes or no, dont try and dodge the question or come back with more drivel, just answer, because if its yes then really your arguements become even more astonishing.

Confident in passing and being able to drive safely on the roads are different issues, its not like all us learners are going around causing road deaths non stop, like i said bring out the stats to prove that were such dangerous drivers.

Why not just ban all non-comercial vehicles from the roads, there we go problem solved, no more road deaths. All they are doing is reducing the number of drivers on the roads, you cant seriously argue that drivers who are now "off" the roads are the dangerous one's and the problem will no be solved. Your arguement's seem to suggest that you agree with these new measures, which anybody can see aren't seriously going to change a damn thing.

Lads really you just dont live in the real world, i asked and asked before i got my car about the whole driving on your own thing, cos i knew i had no one there to sit with me, but i was told again and again by EVERYONE i spoke to, even guards, that its just not enforced, as mentioned in other posts, who has even been done before last week for driving on their own, not counting being done for other offences with this one being tagged on. So i decided that a law that wasnt being enforced and never has been as far as i know shouldnt stop from getting my car, cos really how the hell am i supposed to learn, spend ten grand getting lessons?? and continue to use a public transport system that is non existant?? thats why im so annoyed, there's simply no alternative to the car, dont even attempt to say use the bus, i have been for 15 years and i couldnt hack another day for my sanity's sake unless your lucky enough to be on the luas route.

So yes i decided to buy a car, so what, and join the hundreds of thousands, no sorry , millions before me who did the same thing, and drive on my own on a provisional. Lads us drivers didnt come up with this system the government did, and i have no problem with them trying to fix it, but if you call that fixing, then god help us all, a law not enforced for decades, now suddenly will be leaving hundreds of thousands of people high and dry, cop on lads.

Stark

givyjoe81 wrote:

Simple yes or no, dont try and dodge the question or come back with more drivel

Damn, so much for those violin and cross quotes that I had prepared.

Wishbone Ash

givyjoe81 wrote: »

answer one simple question.. Did you ever drive while on a provisional on your own?? Simple yes or no

givyjoe81 - you might need to rephase your question!

Those who held a provisional licence in categories A, A1, M, or W, those who were on their second licence in category B or those who held their B provisional licence prior to 12th August 1985 could all answer 'YES' but they would have been doing nothing illegal.

Where do you go then?

That's the trouble with legalities - it's never a simple question!

givyjoe81

MrPudding wrote: »

What would you call it? It seems like whining.

Oh, OK then. Sorry. I did not realise that you were that one single person in the whole of Ireland that does not have someone to accompany them, sorry about that.

Why did you buy something that you could not legally use in the manner you wnated to use it? Seriously. When you guys start whining about your car that you bought and how you can no longer drive it (even though you were never allowed to) the tiny tiny germ of sympathy that I could just about detect in myself disappears in a flash.

People used to be able to kill other people with no legal consequence. Does that mean I can kill people that irriate me because other used to be able to? It might be useful actually, the waiting list would be much shorter for a test....

Yeah I know, they only said they were going to change it a year or two ago.

So what? It is being enforced now. Better late than never.

You mean the car you cannot or indeed could not legally drive on your own when you bought it, which is what you planned to do with ot all along?

Yet you were confident enough to head out on the roads with other road users?

Basing a part of your life on the hope that an imcompetant government under fire for road deaths and under pressure to change idiotic laws and enforce existing laws would not infact change those laws is idiotic.

I guess only time will tell.

Not a chance. Speaking as someone that learned how to drive in the north where driving unaccompanied simply did not happen I have absolutly no sympathy. None.

MrP

Hmmm, il start with, this IS NOT NORTHERN IRELAND, so i dont wanna hear you "whining" about how you had it so 'tough', I'm not speaking about the UK's road laws or systems, Im talking about the system that has been place in the republic of the last number of decades. Oh by the way I was aware of the wonderfull system that the Uk has in operation, just a question, whats the stats like on Uk road deaths per capita? Not much different to here i bet. When i was getting my insurance I spoke to a most helpfull Quinn direct insurcane rep that informed me you can cannot drive unacompanied in the north and you wont be insured, but its not a problem in the south, so can you really blame me for getting the car after being told by so many that I shouldnt worry about this 'law' when neither the insurance company or the guards are.

I bought my car in the belief that i could use as the hundreds of thousand of other provisional licence holders do, UNACCOMPANIED.. why, because they're is no alternative for me, simple as that.

They have said they would change the rules a year ago or whenever, but i dont think they ever indicated that it would be done over the course of a bank holiday weekend,come on.

Errr when could you kill someone without legal consequence?! A couple of thousand years ago?? that point really doesnt make much sense.

Let me clear this up for you... I didnt feel i would have passed the test, but then they're are thousands upon thousands who feel like this but still do,just a feeling and not a fact. I didnt say that i felt uncomfortable on the roads. I was and still am extemely carefull.

Better late than never, bull ****.. and you know it, oh by the way, its still not being enforced. nor should it be til they sort the testing mess out, i hear minister dempsey is committed to reducing test waiting times, i just hope he's not as committed as mary harney is to 'improving' the health system.. Come off it, you know as well as i do that the test system is going to crumble under the weight of new applications. Sure the Tallaght test centre to which i applied is now closed!!!Explain that..

Did i say that i was the only person who had to drive unacompanied?! If i was then i wouldn't have much of an anrguement then would i?? but the point is, IM NOT.. not by a long shot.

Lets get this straight lads, this law has never been enforced and will not be til June, thank god, my point is you cant enforce a law which never has been over the course of a weekend and then expect people to sit back and take it, seriously lads, when has a government ever backtracked so embarrassingly over an il thought out campaign.

I agree with them taking action but really they have gone about it all wrong, dont think anyone can argue with that, i think the furore that led to the climbdown proves that.

Oh and gay byrne, never took a test, an interesting point dont you think, why should he be allowed on the roads?? Cos he's so old he predates the previous legislation?? Another loophole that needs to be closed, people such as himself should have to sit the test and be 'taken off the roads' just like me til they do, but do you think he'd be around long enough to sit his test?? im not so sure..

givyjoe81

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

So you applied six days after getting your provisional licence?

Please use upper case when appropriate (as previously requested ).

Nope, I applied the other day, to a test centre which is now closed i might add. I should have applied then but naively i thought that waiting times were down and that I wouldnt be waiting long, silly me. So il get my test when the admin figures this out and then ships me to a test centre that i didnt apply to. Perhaps i should have applied to navan, they have loads of test centre's up there.. well two more than tallaght..

I got some lessons from an instructor, then he says, you dont need any more from me, just get out and practice yourself and come back to me in a week. I did, took him for a spin and he then shook my hand and said good luck you dont me no more. Im not lying or bragging and myself i was genuinely surprised with how quickly i picked it up, but then its not rocket science lads, the reason we have road deaths is because people are reckless, and i sure as hell aint.

Jumpy

givyjoe81 wrote: »

the reason we have road deaths is because people are reckless, and i sure as hell aint.

Apart from driving illegally of course. You left that bit out. That counts as reckless in my books.
Oh and sympathy = 0

givyjoe81

Jumpy wrote: »

Apart from driving illegally of course. You left that bit out. That counts as reckless in my books.
Oh and sympathy = 0

Oh well then, you must be a very safe driver.. Reckless how exactly?? You honestly believe that is reckless? more likely to cause an accident? If i passed my test tomorrow would i be a better driver than today? Hmm let me guess, your another one on a full licence who this doenst affect therefore doesnt care if it screw other people over?

Jumpy

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Oh well then, you must be a very safe driver.. Reckless how exactly?? You honestly believe that is reckless? more likely to cause an accident? If i passed my test tomorrow would i be a better driver than today? Hmm let me guess, your another one on a full licence who this doenst affect therefore doesnt care if it screw other people over?

I would consider myself competent, I also have the license to back it up.
You would be considered a better driver after your test in my opinion. You have proved it.
You are dead right there too, I couldnt care less how much you got 'screwed over'. If you couldnt be bothered to apply for your test and ride the system unlike all these full license holders that actually made an effort.
This is the one government decision I actually applaud. Welcome to the real world.

givyjoe81

Listen carefully, i didnt say i dont agree with the measures but they should be fased in, and that arrogance is exactly why theyre are so many roaddeathc.. you think because you have a full licence your a better safer driver?? Well i seriously doubt it, all you did was pass your test before me. I have applied and have not been attempting to nor want to ride the system. I want my full licence, i want cheaper insurance so its in my interest especially now. People who are on the second prov are the ones we riding the system and it beggars belief as to why people who have had ample time to get and pass their test are being allowed to continue driving. You are only applauding cos it doesn't affect you, you would certainly change your tune if you couldnt use your car for day to day life.

Couldnt be bothered? Where do you people pick this up from? Where did i state that? I have only got my licence since March so i more than likely would still have been waiting for my test even if had applied back then when i didnt even know how to drive. Now to me applying when you dont know how to drive is more a sign of stupidity rather than apathy.

Jumpy

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Listen carefully, i didnt say i dont agree with the measures but they should be fased in, and that arrogance is exactly why theyre are so many roaddeathc.. you think because you have a full licence your a better safer driver?? Well i seriously doubt it, all you did was pass your test before me. I have applied and have not been attempting to nor want to ride the system. I want my full licence, i want cheaper insurance so its in my interest especially now. People who are on the second prov are the ones we riding the system and it beggars belief as to why people who have had ample time to get and pass their test are being allowed to continue driving. You are only applauding cos it doesn't affect you, you would certainly change your tune if you couldnt use your car for day to day life.

I learned in a country where this was already in place at a far more draconian level and heavily enforced. My tunes do not need changing.

Jumpy

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Now to me applying when you dont know how to drive is more a sign of stupidity rather than apathy.

Yet you drive amongst legal drivers on national roads?

givyjoe81

Jumpy wrote: »

I learned in a country where this was already in place at a far more draconian level and heavily enforced. My tunes do not need changing.

Well this is the Republic, and we do things a little differently here, ie backwards. Thats the rules in your land, but it wasnt like that here and not for decades, simple fact is, if this had of been in place when i was buying my car i might have thought twice about it, as i did ask before i got it about the rule and what the penalties were, but it seemed that it wasnt simply ignored. Sorry but the fact they are so many bad full licence holders out there just leaves me thining that it proves nothing, just that on the day you managed to pass a test which on another day with another tester you could just as easily fail.

Jumpy

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Well this is the Republic, and we do things a little differently here, ie backwards. Thats the rules in your land, but it wasnt like that here and not for decades, simple fact is, if this had of been in place when i was buying my car i might have thought twice about it, as i did ask before i got it about the rule and what the penalties were, but it seemed that it wasnt simply ignored. Sorry but the fact they are so many bad full licence holders out there just leaves me thining that it proves nothing, just that on the day you managed to pass a test which on another day with another tester you could just as easily fail.

No, the testers are not as different as you think. They will not fail you because they have had a bad day. They will fail you because you did something wrong.
Some may be stricter than others, but if you complete their taks properly then strict or not, they will pass you. The high failure rates are down to people not adequately preparing for their tests because there was no consequence to failure (second provisional). This will change rapidly now, resulting in the waiting times decreasing over a period of years.

Wishbone Ash

Jumpy wrote: »

This will change rapidly now, resulting in the waiting times decreasing over a period of years.

Yes - very few others seem to appreciate that!

star-pants

I think it's a good thing... I know it messes people up - myself included but at the end of the day - we were all (apart from 2nd provs) taking a chance everytime we got in the car on our own. I did it - for 4 months. But once that penal law came in - I stopped - purely because I do *not* wish to be slapped with a 1k fine.

It's a good rule - we never should have been allowed (I'm aware it was illegal but it was never enforced) to drive on our own, therefore wouldn't have gotten used to it. So at least this way (excluding the thousands of disgruntled prov drivers) people won't get the chance to get used to being on their own & then not being able to.

It's messy and was brought about in a less than easy way - but it had to come some time. At least they've copped on and given the 2nd provs a chance.

At the end of the day - if people are allowed to do something they shouldn't - a certain percentage always will. No-ones perfect. I was a little miffed about the change in situation but accepted that I should never have been on my own anyway, and I hope that this is a way forward, that in the long run will benefit people.

Wishbone Ash

star-pants wrote: »

I think it's a good thing... I know it messes people up - myself included but at the end of the day - we were all (apart from 2nd provs) taking a chance everytime we got in the car on our own. I did it - for 4 months. But once that penal law came in - I stopped - purely because I do *not* wish to be slapped with a 1k fine.

It's a good rule - we never should have been allowed (I'm aware it was illegal but it was never enforced) to drive on our own, therefore wouldn't have gotten used to it. So at least this way (excluding the thousands of disgruntled prov drivers) people won't get the chance to get used to being on their own & then not being able to.

It's messy and was brought about in a less than easy way - but it had to come some time. At least they've copped on and given the 2nd provs a chance.

At the end of the day - if people are allowed to do something they shouldn't - a certain percentage always will. No-ones perfect. I was a little miffed about the change in situation but accepted that I should never have been on my own anyway, and I hope that this is a way forward, that in the long run will benefit people.

One of the best and most enlightened posts I've read all week!

givyjoe81

star-pants wrote: »

I think it's a good thing... I know it messes people up - myself included but at the end of the day - we were all (apart from 2nd provs) taking a chance everytime we got in the car on our own. I did it - for 4 months. But once that penal law came in - I stopped - purely because I do *not* wish to be slapped with a 1k fine.

It's a good rule - we never should have been allowed (I'm aware it was illegal but it was never enforced) to drive on our own, therefore wouldn't have gotten used to it. So at least this way (excluding the thousands of disgruntled prov drivers) people won't get the chance to get used to being on their own & then not being able to.

It's messy and was brought about in a less than easy way - but it had to come some time. At least they've copped on and given the 2nd provs a chance.

At the end of the day - if people are allowed to do something they shouldn't - a certain percentage always will. No-ones perfect. I was a little miffed about the change in situation but accepted that I should never have been on my own anyway, and I hope that this is a way forward, that in the long run will benefit people.

I find it hard to believe that you are a provisional driver, if you really did believe that you were taking a chance then why on earth did you ever get in the car, seriously why? If i didnt feel comfortable in the car i wouldnt get in, but i am most definitely comfortable and confident in my abilities, so its prob best that your not on the road if your that nervous.

You think its a good thing that 2nd prov drivers are still allowed on the road?! How on earth did you come to this conclusion? Of all the prov drivers, these are the people who should not be allowed to continue driving on their own, they like already mentioned above are the ones who abused the system and are also the ones who have no excuse for not having a full licence, they have had plenty of time to get their test and pass it. I dont disagree with no provisional drivers on their own but i dont think that a 4 day notice period is good enough, im sick of hearing "but you never could", yeah we know all about it, but everyone knows that this was a law that was never ever enforced so common sense would be to give everyone til June to get their licence, that would have been fair.

Oh and a small percentage of people will always do what they shouldnt?! Talk about fudging the numbers, if were to get an honest survey of those past and present who have driven unacompanied, when they shouldnt, id say we would be looking at 85% or over, of course Im talking about Republic of Ireland nationals, not the people who have it so tough learning in the good old UK.

Talk about turkeys voting for christmas.

Stark

givejoe81 wrote:

Of all the prov drivers, these are the people who should not be allowed to continue driving on their own, they like already mentioned above are the ones who abused the system and are also the ones who have no excuse for not having a full licence, they have had plenty of time to get their test and pass it.

Says the one who claimed to be confident enough to take to the roads on his own, but not confident enough to take a competency test.

In the case of the second provisional holder, you can't make assumptions as to why they don't have their full license and if they're abusing the system. Not everyone drives for the full duration of their first provisional. We do know that you've been abusing the system.