Why do scumbags get away with it?

Poco Loco

Why is it that scumbags can get away with things because they are scumbags?

My friend was attacked on his way home from a night out at the weekend, for NO reason at all. He is still in hospital and will be for sometime more, scarred for life. The gardai reckon there is no chance they will find who did it.

How do they get away with this?
Is there anything is friends/family could do now that the gardai have given up?
And WHY are the gardai giving up?

Honestly, after this, I can see how gangs start and people take the law into their own hands. The gardai need to do something about it - that is what they are paid to do.

ARGINITE

Did your friend see who attached him?

cornbb

Sorry to hear about your friend, hope he makes a good recovery.

Its a difficult question. Scumbags don't rat on other scumbags, and non-scumbags are often afraid to stand up to scumbags in court. A solution would be Taleban-style policing, justice and punishment, but of course that would be a bad idea.

Another solution would be a bottom-up approach, an attempt to eradicate the culture and the social conditions which cause people to become scumbags in the first place. But I can't see our government ever actually accomplishing something useful like that.

I reckon the legalisation of drugs might be the way to go...

Poco Loco

ARGINITE wrote: »

Did your friend see who attached him?

No, I don't think so. And others were with him but some of the gang distracted them while the rest of the gang beat him up and slashed his face and neck with a bottle. They are all very upset after it and said it was all over very quickly.

One Cold Hand

Why do upper class people get away with things cos they're upper class?

Constantly evading tax and commiting blue collar crime and the authorities doing nothing about it. What's worse is they know who is doing it, where as in your friends case they just won't find them

Sorry to hear about your friend btw, but I'm just saying they didn't get away with it just cos they're scumbags.

Poco Loco

cornbb wrote: »

I reckon the legalisation of drugs might be the way to go...

Of all drugs?
Wow I don't know... I really believe scumbags are scumbags regardless of their involvement (or not) in drugs. Imagine them all off their heads all the time AS WELL as being scumbags!!!

Poco Loco

One Cold Hand wrote: »

Why do upper class people get away with things cos they're upper class?

Constantly evading tax and commiting blue collar crime and the authorities doing nothing about it. What's worse is they know who is doing it, where as in your friends case they just won't find them

Sorry to hear about your friend btw, but I'm just saying they didn't get away with it just cos they're scumbags.

Yeah I know you're right - I realised that as soon as I had posted it.
BUT these guys just beat him up for the fun of it - there was literally no other reason. They didn't pick an argument with him, or rob anything from him, it was just for fun. Why can they get away with that even though someone like you or I would be caught for littering!!

ScumLord

The government in this country seems to be going out of it's way to create a climate of fear, I suppose they hope it'll work in their favour like it has in the US and UK.

I suppose the problem is Guards need evidence even if it's painfully obvious who did it. Vigilante mobs however don't, if the cops can't do anything about these people the community's themselves might have to.

DarkJager

I think its time we started to see vigilantism in this country. The government finds it okay to turn a blind eye, and the scumbags now think they are invincible, so how about a few groups go out and change that opinion. If a few of these boys who think its a laugh to beat someone up for no reason, were dragged out to the woods for a good beating with a golf club, it might send a nice message to their pals. People need to start getting a backbone, and if a scumbag comes looking for trouble, make sure they won't be walking away from it.

cornbb

Poco Loco wrote: »

Of all drugs?
Wow I don't know... I really believe scumbags are scumbags regardless of their involvement (or not) in drugs. Imagine them all off their heads all the time AS WELL as being scumbags!!!

No, just of dope maybe. I meant that in reference to organised crime (removing their main source of revenue) as opposed to random scumbaggery on the streets. Bit off topic I spose, sorry about that.

cornbb

DarkJager wrote: »

I think its time we started to see vigilantism in this country. The government finds it okay to turn a blind eye, and the scumbags now think they are invincible, so how about a few groups go out and change that opinion. If a few of these boys who think its a laugh to beat someone up for no reason, were dragged out to the woods for a good beating with a golf club, it might send a nice message to their pals.

So your solution is basically that everyone else should become a scumbag too?

Orange69

ScumLord wrote: »

The government in this country seems to be going out of it's way to create a climate of fear, I suppose they hope it'll work in their favour like it has in the US and UK.

I suppose the problem is Guards need evidence even if it's painfully obvious who did it. Vigilante mobs however don't, if the cops can't do anything about these people the community's themselves might have to.

In reality London makes the policies in Ireland, the Irish "government" usually just copy the English...

With respect to vigilante mobs, Irish people are far to unimaginative and apathetic to actually organize and execute anything like that...

Instead the vast majority will just sit back and suffer the mess this country wallows in, and then will vote the same morons into government time and time again.

DarkJager

Scumbags go around causing trouble for fun. Vigilantes go around making sure the scumbags won't be having any fun again. There's a big difference.

Degsy

People need to stand up to these bastards and fight back.There's certain types of people that these fools target..usually quiet people who they dont think will retaliate.Keep your head up when your walking and be aware of your sorroundings.

hopalong85

cornbb wrote: »

So your solution is basically that everyone else should become a scumbag too?

Don't really think that doing this would make you a scumbag. Scumbags attack without reason, or for the wrong reasons(to rob someone etc.). In this case you would be attacking for a very good reason, to teach them that their actions will have consequences. Personally i'm all for it. They reap what they sow.

humanji

I say we kill everyone! That way we're sure to stop the scumbags.

Red Hand

DarkJager wrote: »

Scumbags go around causing trouble for fun. Vigilantes go around making sure the scumbags won't be having any fun again. There's a big difference.

Mmmmm...of course with that, you get Sinn Feiner/IRA punishment beaters, and 'Direct Action Against Drugs', which is kinda funny considering that such types take over the criminality in some areas.

Vigilantes often turn scumbag after awhile...bit like Animal Farm.

Tzetze

cornbb wrote: »

I reckon the legalisation of drugs might be the way to go...

+1 Our leaders need this sort of progressive thinking. Prohibition only leads to the sort of events that the OP has described.

A radical look ahead from the North Wales Police Authority

Poco Loco

Orange 69, I don't believe it's that we are unimaginative and apathetic. I, for one, would love to beat the sh!t out of those guys who did that to him (even though I am only a small little girl and I haven't a hope) but what would it achieve? They would come find me, get me back, then I would have to get them back again...vicious circle.

Vigilante groups? No. Just no - I bet this is how the gangland stuff started. You beat my brother up so I'll beat your sister up so then you shoot my dad so then I torture your whole family.

We are too emotionally involved in such situations to be getting involved in 'delivering' punishment. Do you know what I mean? If people took the law into their own hands, all hell would break loose. And everyone has their own interpretation of 'justice'. For example, to pay back these boys, I might think that a broken nose would suffice, my friend's (who got beaten up) dad might think that slashing their face was just desserts, someone else might think killing them was fair.

We can't decide what punishment fits what crime.

That said, with the current way of running this country, it does appear that NO punishment fits EVERY crime...

Dave!

Tzetze wrote: »

+1 Our leaders need this sort of progressive thinking. Prohibition only leads to the sort of events that the OP has described.

A radical look ahead from the North Wales Police Authority

I really don't see the relationship between random violence, as described by the OP, and drug prohibition... Organised crime, yes, but street violence? How?

edit: That North Wales police report looks like a good read. Will have a geez later on.

Orange69

Poco Loco wrote: »

Orange 69, I don't believe it's that we are unimaginative and apathetic.

Perhaps not all, but most.. You need only take a look around you, filthy cities, scum everywhere, terrible transport, health and education a shambles, economy based on vapours.. and what do they do.. vote in fianna fail again?

Any other country in Europe and they would be on the streets!

togster

DarkJager wrote: »

Scumbags go around causing trouble for fun. Vigilantes go around making sure the scumbags won't be having any fun again. There's a big difference.

Are you really that naive to think that if we became vigilantes it would solve the problem? They are not scumbags just cos. Its a complex problem. cornb has it right. Fix the underlying issues and you'll fix the problem. Beating the sh1t out of a few of them will only make you feel better. And really you are just one of them in te end.

Tzetze

DaveMcG wrote: »

I really don't see the relationship between random violence, as described by the OP, and drug prohibition... Organised crime, yes, but street violence? How?

I think you're right there Dave. I'd read into the post that it was a mugging/robbery, and was all too eager to agree with the former suggestion of total legalisation of all drugs.

If this is a case of random violence purely for the sake of violence - then, no, there is no apparent link to prohibition.

However, was the attacker tanked up on alcohol? (That totally safe, innocuous, harmless, legal liquid. Which few of us associate with drugs.) I don't know whether he was, or whether he was simply a sociopath. But if alcohol was involved, which is very often the case in these sorts of incidents, then it most definitely is a reflection on both prohibition and drug-policy in this country.

That's a lot of ifs and buts, I know. I've read more into the matter than was given, and managed to pull things slightly off-topic.

OP, I hope your friend makes a speedy recovery, and doesn't become too afraid to walk the streets.

Degsy

Orange69 wrote: »

Perhaps not all, but most.. You need only take a look around you, filthy cities, scum everywhere, terrible transport, health and education a shambles, economy based on vapours.. and what do they do.. vote in fianna fail again?

Any other country in Europe and they would be on the streets!

AND they're talking about a commitment to increasing unemployment payments.WHY is there anybody on the dole when we have to beg for people from abroad to come and work here?Cut the ****ing dole off,get rid of social housing and sterilise anybody who's had more than one criminal conviction by the age of 14.

chopperbyrne

I was assaulted a few weeks ago. Was knocked unconscious and kicked in the face. I lost three and a half teeth, but luckily there were no serious head injuries.

It happened on Abbey St outside arnotts and the garda investigating it said he checked 13 security cameras and none of them saw anything because there was a hiace van in the way.

One van blocked 13 f'ing cameras!

They don't get away with it because they're scumbags. They get away with it because the gardaí are lazy, incompetent tools.

Tazdedub

OP sorry to hear about your friend, I am even more disappointed to hear that the scumbags that did this might get away with it. :mad:

As other posters have said that scumbags dont rat on scumbags, also in saying that in certain areas scumbags are seen as a decent person. People will say ah sure they are scumbags but have never done me any harm or sure yeah your man is a scumbag but I got a chipped ntl box of him the other day or a pair of nikes for 20 euros. So the scumbag sees this attitude and they continue on as long as they dont crap on these peoples doorsteps then it is fine and I think all of us are guilty of this.

I also think that there is no answer to the scumbag problem. Someone on here mentioned that these people need to be taken out of poverty and given a chance. They are given a chances, there are plenty of options for people in poverty to better themselves, they can go on courses in Fas, learn a trade things like that. Some people just dont want to do it. It doesnt matter the area they are from or whatever it is simply the fact that they just want to be a scumbag plain and simple. I am sure we have all seen people from disadvantaged areas who make a good life for themselves by working hard like the rest of us, the opertunities are there its just scumbags dont want to take this opertunities.

Attitude changes are needed if you ask me, it has to be shown to kids from an early age that being a scumbag is not glamorous, there has to be tougher sentancing, I really believe we should bring back chain gangs and make the criminal go out and clean the streets, clean grafity and stuff like that, Prison should be made as hard a possible for the criminal so that they do think about the consequences of doing a crime, unfortunately this is not happening nowadays and therefore criminals get it easy with suspended sentances, short sentances or in this getting away scot free.

Thats my two cents on scumbags.

togster

Degsy wrote: »

AND they're talking about a commitment to increasing unemployment payments.WHY is there anybody on the dole when we have to beg for people from abroad to come and work here?Cut the ****ing dole off,get rid of social housing and sterilise anybody who's had more than one criminal conviction by the age of 14.

Do you honestly believe that? Cut the dole of=more robberies, get rid of social housing=more homeless=more robberies.
Retarded tbh

knird evol

Poco Loco wrote: »

My friend was attacked ...... for NO reason at all. .

Of course he was.

togster

knird evol wrote: »

Of course he was.

Ehh...thats what he said

Ph3n0m

knird evol wrote: »

Of course he was.

Why can people not be attacked for no reason at all?

Blazer

Scumbags will rat on other scumbags..there's a well known one in our area who's a snitcher for the guards..he's carte blanche basically to do whatever he wants as he knows he'll get away with it. It's the way the guards operate...lean on a scumbag and he'll crack..either out of fear or for the chance to further his own career path.None of them like it but that's the way police forces the world over operate..he ended up robbing one of my mate's hous and the cops did nothing.
However a shotgun to the head soon made him realize the folly of his ways and he never came near the friends house again.
He did complain to the guards though but what was they gonna do?. They just gave a warning and the usual bull****.He moved shortly after this..
I agree with the poster who said "Irish people will just moan about it and do absolutely nothing and then vote the same muppets back into government"
It really pisses me off to hear people complain about the government and then when they have a chance to change,vote their local td back into power as he does a good job :rolleyes:

ntlbell

Ph3n0m wrote: »

Why can people not be attacked for no reason at all?

Because it's always something, even if it's the fact they didn't like his little sailing shoe's, there's always some reason.

uptherebels

i believe that the scumbags should get a beating everytime they do something stupid. think about it if every time they attacked someone they got the crap beaten out of them they would soon learn to behave. and people do get attacked for no reason the scumbags see someone and look for a sign of weakness. one of the big ones is looking at the ground as they pass you they see that as a sign that you are afraid. there all cowards anyway and wont attack someone who they think might but up a fight

ntlbell

uptherebels wrote: »

i believe that the scumbags should get a beating everytime they do something stupid. think about it if every time they attacked someone they got the crap beaten out of them they would soon learn to behave. and people do get attacked for no reason the scumbags see someone and look for a sign of weakness. one of the big ones is looking at the ground as they pass you they see that as a sign that you are afraid. there all cowards anyway and wont attack someone who they think might but up a fight

Well then wasn't the fact they're weak human beings in the eyes of the scumbag the reason? there's always a reason..

humanji

chopperbyrne wrote: »

They don't get away with it because they're scumbags. They get away with it because the gardaí are lazy, incompetent tools.

Did the gardaì put the van there? Or are you just blaming them because there's nothing they can do?

ntlbell wrote:

Well then wasn't the fact they're weak human beings in the eyes of the scumbag the reason? there's always a reason..

You're being pedantic. They're talking about a valid reason. Attacking someone because they're a weak person, or because they have specific shoes etc is not a valid reason. It's an excuse.

togster

ntlbell wrote: »

Because it's always something, even if it's the fact they didn't like his little sailing shoe's, there's always some reason.

Oi leave the dubes outta this

ntlbell

togster wrote: »

Oi leave the dubes outta this

Who wouldn't want to beat the head of any moron found wearing these tho

luckylucky

Poco Loco wrote: »

We are too emotionally involved in such situations to be getting involved in 'delivering' punishment. Do you know what I mean? If people took the law into their own hands, all hell would break loose. And everyone has their own interpretation of 'justice'. For example, to pay back these boys, I might think that a broken nose would suffice, my friend's (who got beaten up) dad might think that slashing their face was just desserts, someone else might think killing them was fair.
We can't decide what punishment fits what crime.

I hear what you're saying but the world is not a black and white place with neat solutions that always sit comfortably with us. The kind of person that does this sort of thing, has no fear of the law, no respect for others and in some cases are not even that bothered about a jail sentence(not that it's likely to happen anyway :rolleyes:). I really think in the unlikely event that you find out who did this, and if you are lucky enough to have some tough friends or contacts these guys should get one heck of a beating.

Orange(man)69 - Does your despising of the Irish people have anything to do with your alias?

And of course someone can be attacked for no reason at all, they are some s1ck fookers out there.

Mr. Presentable

Poco Loco, I am really sorry to read what happened to your friend - there's really no justification for what some people do. However, in a pack like you describe, of scumbags, there will be another time when each of them gets the same - from his mates - it's just the way their social group works. By intimidation and fear.

Do you mind my asking, where did the attack happen, at what time, and what age is your friend?

Could he have been a victim of mistaken identity?

uptherebels

humanji wrote: »

Did the gardaì put the van there? Or are you just blaming them because there's nothing they can do?



You're being pedantic. They're talking about a valid reason. Attacking someone because they're a weak person, or because they have specific shoes etc is not a valid reason. It's an excuse.

exactly right

Poco Loco

togster wrote: »

Ehh...thats what he said

He was carrying a bottle of drink. So perhaps it was that. However, that was the bottle they used to destroy his face.

It could be cause he is gay but that's really just grasping at straws.

Simple as this - that gang saw this guy walking with his 2 friends and decided they are easy targets. They are easy targets! So that's the reason. This guy would not hurt a fly. It was all over in a matter of seconds. It's not like the gang didn't like yer man's shoes or whatever, and started slagging him and it became a fight that he lost. He actually just was set upon before he knew it was happening.

To the poster who was attacked on Abbey Street - I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope you're ok. Gosh you'd think you would be safe somewhere central like that wouldn't you? Hope you've recovered.

ScumLord

Tazdedub wrote: »

Someone on here mentioned that these people need to be taken out of poverty and given a chance. They are given a chances, there are plenty of options for people in poverty to better themselves, they can go on courses in Fas, learn a trade things like that. Some people just dont want to do it. It doesn't matter the area they are from or whatever it is simply the fact that they just want to be a scumbag plain and simple. I am sure we have all seen people from disadvantaged areas who make a good life for themselves by working hard like the rest of us, the opportunities are there its just scumbags dont want to take this opportunities.

I don't agree with this at all the "scumbags" otherwise known as poor people from disadvantage areas more than likely see themselves as being left behind by society. If you where the owner of a business and a scumbag walked in your door, would you hire him? Would you take the chance? They are almost completely segregated from the middle class (who have they're fair share of scumbags, they're just well dressed and given the benefit of the doubt) it's become an us against them situation and that's why they don't see any problems in kicking the **** out of people that they see having a better quality of life than them.

chopperbyrne

humanji wrote: »

Did the gardaì put the van there? Or are you just blaming them because there's nothing they can do?

I'm talking about how they can have 13 different cameras on one street that all missed an incident because of one van in the way.

The only way this could happen is if every camera was on one side of the road or if they are all at one end, which would be down to gardaí incompetence.

Edit: To Poco Loco - Apart from some expensive and extensive dental work coming my way, I'm fine.

Poco Loco

nipplenuts wrote: »

Poco Loco, I am really sorry to read what happened to your friend - there's really no justification for what some people do. However, in a pack like you describe, of scumbags, there will be another time when each of them gets the same - from his mates - it's just the way their social group works. By intimidation and fear.

Do you mind my asking, where did the attack happen, at what time, and what age is your friend?

Could he have been a victim of mistaken identity?

It was about 2am (or later, I'm not sure) on Saturday night in Jobstown, Tallaght. He's not from there, he was staying with a friend and they were walking home from the Nightlink. He's 25.

Poco Loco

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't agree with this at all the "scumbags" otherwise known as poor people from disadvantage areas more than likely see themselves as being left behind by society. If you where the owner of a business and a scumbag walked in your door, would you hire him? Would you take the chance? They are almost completely segregated from the middle class (who have they're fair share of scumbags, they're just well dressed and given the benefit of the doubt) it's become an us against them situation and that's why they don't see any problems in kicking the **** out of people that they see having a better quality of life than them.

No excuse.
We (well, I) don't beat the sh!t out of them.
And if you're going for a job interview you dress respectably, if you have any sense at all. That way, they shouldn't be discriminated against.

humanji

There's 13 cameras on one street. Not 13 cameras pointing at the same spot. The camera(s) that would have shown the attack were blocked and so nothing can be gleamed from them.

Dirty Dave

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I'm talking about how they can have 13 different cameras on one street that all missed an incident because of one van in the way.

The only way this could happen is if every camera was on one side of the road or if they are all at one end, which would be down to gardaí incompetence.

Hi chopper, sorry to hear about what happened to you, but were the 13 cameras owned by the gardai or did some or all of them belong to Arnotts and/or other businesses? Just curious

chopperbyrne

The gardaí have a control centre that mans those cameras. They have staff monitoring these. They could easily have moved another camera.

Dirty Dave - They were all gardaí security cameras from what I've been told. I'm asking Arnotts to see if they can check theirs for me.

run_Forrest_run

some very good posts here, from all sides. In my opinion, a lot of scumbags have no respect for anything or anybody. This often boils down to the fact that they have received a lot from the State. Remove such State privileges like housing, dole etc and make them actually get off their ass and work for their house (OK, provide assistance to help them help themselves). These scum need to learn the true value of basic things in life.

I know not all scumbags are receiving much from the State but if you look into a lot of the cases they are more than likely sponging off someone, parents, grandparents etc.

If these scumbags actually had an ounce of respect (for others & themselves) then I feel we would be one step closer to a solution..

OK, I know I will probably be shot down for my views but that's my 2 cents worth anyway.

luckylucky

ScumLord wrote: »

If you where the owner of a business and a scumbag walked in your door, would you hire him? Would you take the chance?

No I wouldn't, because a scumbag is a scumbag. If it was an ordinary decent working class (or any class) guy I wouldn't give a damn about where he was from etc as logn as I thought he was right for the job.

Bit ridiculous really to suggest you should give someone you thought looked like a scumbag a job. I might give em a job selling drugs if I was an inner city crime boss but that's about it

ScumLord wrote: »

it's become an us against them situation and that's why they don't see any problems in kicking the **** out of people that they see having a better quality of life than them.

People with that sort of attitude are exactly what a scumbag is. Simple as. It's really lowbrow thinking. They see someone enjoying themselves so they want to create some misery in that otherwise content life. Scumbags :mad:

hopalong85

ntlbell wrote: »

Because it's always something, even if it's the fact they didn't like his little sailing shoe's, there's always some reason.

Typical ntlbellend post