Cycling in Luas lanes

Dandelion6

Does anyone know what the legal position is regarding cycling in Luas lines?

I live near the red line and cycle in it often because it's the most direct as well as the safest route into town. For the most part I keep to the left line. This morning there was a Luas not far behind me and a traffic light up ahead so I started to switch to the right (opposite) line. But then I noticed a cyclist coming towards me in that line so I stayed in the centre between the two lines, intending to shift to the right line as soon as the cyclist passed. That cyclist happened to be a Garda who insisted I get back in the left line. I would have thought I wasn't really supposed to be in the Luas line anyway, although there is a Garda station in the area and they always tolerate it, so it shouldn't really matter whether I was in the left, right or in between as long as I wasn't endangering or blocking anyone. Does anyone know what the law actually is?

Pete4779

Dandelion6 wrote: »

Does anyone know what the legal position is regarding cycling in Luas lines?

I live near the red line and cycle in it often because it's the most direct as well as the safest route into town. For the most part I keep to the left line. This morning there was a Luas not far behind me and a traffic light up ahead so I started to switch to the right (opposite) line. But then I noticed a cyclist coming towards me in that line so I stayed in the centre between the two lines, intending to shift to the right line as soon as the cyclist passed. That cyclist happened to be a Garda who insisted I get back in the left line. I would have thought I wasn't really supposed to be in the Luas line anyway, although there is a Garda station in the area and they always tolerate it, so it shouldn't really matter whether I was in the left, right or in between as long as I wasn't endangering or blocking anyone. Does anyone know what the law actually is?

Well I suppose if anything it's like a regular road. The traffic (cars and trams and bicycles) is supposed to travel on the left of the road. On all roads, you are meant to cycle on the left for going forwards.

As it seems to be a grey area with Luas lines (you are not allowed on them on a bicycle but the gardai don't seem bothered) the safest thing if one is comign behind you is to get onto the left side footpath and just get off the luas line and wait for it to pass. If you go on the right you are inviting an accident IMHO.

gzoladz

This is an interesting topic. Although it is not part of my daily commute, I cycle often on the LUAS lines but never ever if there is one behind me.
It is by far the safest and quickest way to cross the city centre.

Dandelion6

Pete4779 wrote: »

the safest thing if one is comign behind you is to get onto the left side footpath and just get off the luas line and wait for it to pass

I was on the stretch approaching Church Street from Smithfield, the 'left side footpath' there is barely wide enough for one pedestrian let alone a bicycle

daymobrew

Dandelion6 wrote: »

Does anyone know what the legal position is regarding cycling in Luas lines?

The by-laws state that you cannot cycle on the Luas lines.
IIRC the Gardai were patrolling the tracks near the Museum/Croppy Acre stop directing cyclists onto the quays.

As Pete4779 suggests, try to travel behind one.

Look at SI 100/2004.

SI 100/2004 wrote:

7. (1) A person shall not on a light railway -
(a) park or use any vehicle otherwise than in an area designated for that purpose,

"vehicle" includes bicycles.
I thought that there was a more obvious rule but I cannot find it.

davidsatelle100

There is a stretch outside james st that you have no choice but to cycle on the luas line, even if there is a tram behind you.

I dont do it myself but the red line is outside my office and is constantly being used as a cycle lane. The guards dont seem to mind one way or another.

sapper

I gave up on using the Luas Line running parallel to the quays last year. Operation Freeflow was on and there was loads of guards hanging around doing nothing with nothing better to do than hassle me about being on a luas line. I gave up in the end.

I wouldn't mind, but it is much safer than cycling down the quays, and bearing in mind that 2 or 3 cyclists seemed to be killed on the quays every year, they probably should have built a custom-built 2-way cycle lane for that particular stretch whilst they doing the luas line.

DITTKD

sapper wrote: »

I gave up on using the Luas Line running parallel to the quays last year. Operation Freeflow was on and there was loads of guards hanging around doing nothing with nothing better to do than hassle me about being on a luas line. I gave up in the end.

I wouldn't mind, but it is much safer than cycling down the quays, and bearing in mind that 2 or 3 cyclists seemed to be killed on the quays every year, they probably should have built a custom-built 2-way cycle lane for that particular stretch whilst they doing the luas line.

I’ve said it before (even before I took up cycling) and I’ll say it again, they should have put in some sort of cycle track alongside the Luas. Especially on the Green Line. Imagine cycling over Dundrum, it could have been great.

RE The dangers of Luas lines: I remember hearing a thing when the lines were first installed, where a motorcyclist on Harcourt st. got his front wheel caught in the groove of the line, and was catapulted into the air. It would have been comedic, except that he was very, very badly injured. Be careful kids!

zorkmundsson

DITTKD wrote: »

I’ve said it before (even before I took up cycling) and I’ll say it again, they should have put in some sort of cycle track alongside the Luas. Especially on the Green Line. Imagine cycling over Dundrum, it could have been great.

RE The dangers of Luas lines: I remember hearing a thing when the lines were first installed, where a motorcyclist on Harcourt st. got his front wheel caught in the groove of the line, and was catapulted into the air. It would have been comedic, except that he was very, very badly injured. Be careful kids!

i've heard of a few people coming off bikes like that, front wheel into groove, panicked attempt to turn out, over you go. embarrassing, but has happened to the best of us.

rubadub

Pete4779 wrote: »

Well I suppose if anything it's like a regular road. The traffic (cars and trams and bicycles) is supposed to travel on the left of the road. On all roads, you are meant to cycle on the left for going forwards.....

. If you go on the right you are inviting an accident IMHO.

I see it more like pedestrians on cycletracks. They are far better walking into oncoming bikes since they can see them. If you are on the right side of the luas you see the tram a mile off. If you are on the left it might be quiet, and also the luas driver cannot simply overtake you like a car can, they would have to slow down in case you cannot see or hear them. When making the luas it would have been an idea to put an enclosed parallel one-way cycletrack on either side, totally enclosed from the luas and pedestrians. But sure that would have made sense....

zorkmundsson

rubadub wrote: »

I see it more like pedestrians on cycletracks. They are far better walking into oncoming bikes since they can see them. If you are on the right side of the luas you see the tram a mile off. If you are on the left it might be quiet, and also the luas driver cannot simply overtake you like a car can, they would have to slow down in case you cannot see or hear them. When making the luas it would have been an idea to put an enclosed parallel one-way cycletrack on either side, totally enclosed from the luas and pedestrians. But sure that would have made sense....

i find that even going at a fairly leisurely speed, you'll still prob outrun a luas, given the amount of stops they make.

Harpz

I like to cycle on the luas tracks going west, because the alternative of going west on the quays is a nightmare when traffic is at all busy. Coming the other direction (into town along the quays) it's fine, good cylepaths and more space.
I got stopped by a guard on the luas tracks who asked me if I was a tram. He got a bit pissed off when i assured him I was. Ask a stupid question...:D
Anyway i then wheeled my bike till I was out of sight (no point pissing him off too much).
I wouldnt stop cycling on the tracks though. Far too dangerous to cycle the quays and most guards don't care. I'm always much faster than the luas because of all the stops they have to make. Anyways its very easy to pull over and let it past if one were too slow. Im sure a tram crammed full of commuters wouldn't appreciate being held up by a cyclist.

Victor

daymobrew wrote: »

The by-laws state that you cannot cycle on the Luas lines.

There are a few individual sections wher you can, e.g. Thomas Street, but its usually only for access.

As Pete4779 suggests, try to travel behind one.

A few points here.

* Trams can stop rather quickly in an emergency situation - I'm not sure if they have brake lights, so keep well back.
* Do not try to overtake a tram, even if it is stopped - there may be a tram coming the other way. They cannot swerve to avoid you and the gap between them is too small to hold you.
* Don't wear headphones or the like, as trams are often quieter than other traffic.
* Don't block trams or cycle in front of them - you are probably delaying hundreds of people.

gzoladz

zorkmundsson wrote: »

i've heard of a few people coming off bikes like that, front wheel into groove, panicked attempt to turn out, over you go. embarrassing, but has happened to the best of us.

It is just matter of getting used to it. The Netherlands is full of trams and bicycles that live together with no problem.

Those accidents are easy to avoid.

Pete4779

I got my wheel stuck in the track from james' street running down to Heuston. Flipped over and almost got my head crushed by an oncoming car on the right side of the track! I tend to be extra careful after that; it's only an issue with narrower tyres not typical MTB tyres.

I think the idea of parallel cycle lanes with the Luas is great, but basically what would be better is proper and consistent bicycle lane network on it's own.

Harpz

Nope Pete4779, It's just as much of an issue for the fat mountain bike tyres. I was cycling behind my housmate on Harcourt street when he found out the hard way.

-Blanco-

Yea I fell victim to the ol'wheel in the luas line there awhile ago, not fun!!:o

I usually cycle on the tracks from the museum up jervis..however in rush hour traffic I find i have to stop/avoid luas so much that it's probably faster just heading down the quays..that side-by-side cycle/luas track would've been a great idea...

monument

sapper wrote: »

...they probably should have built a custom-built 2-way cycle lane for that particular stretch whilst they doing the luas line.

In theory, they should have, but there there's a lot of that section of the Luas line that they did not put in proper footpaths.

For example there are large areas between Museum and Smithfield that there is only a proper footpath on one side (there's . Same goes for between Smithfield and the Four Courts. And close to the same just after the Four Courts heading to Jervis. It's a joke.

There are massive tracks of the less built up sections on both lines that paths and cycle tracks could have been installed while the lines were been built, but hey the RPA do light rail not transport. (To be fair, on the green line there was apparently a lot of rumblings from residents against such cycle tracks)

zorkmundsson wrote: »

i've heard of a few people coming off bikes like that, front wheel into groove, panicked attempt to turn out, over you go. embarrassing, but has happened to the best of us.

Very embarrassing, it's the only time I've come off a bicycle in about 15 years of so. Was crossing the lines at an angle and paying too much attention to cars around me and none to the tracks. Lesson learnt.

Harpz wrote: »

I got stopped by a guard on the luas tracks who asked me if I was a tram. He got a bit pissed off when i assured him I was. Ask a stupid question...:D

Did you say "bing, bing... bing, bing" then when s/he did not move "beep, beep, beep, beep"?*

(Note: I may be rubbish at translating the Luas' warning sounds to text)

Also, just to add if you're not too fond of using the Luas line or the Quays, there's rat runs north of the city section of the red line that might work depending where you are coming from and going to.

gzoladz

Harpz wrote: »

I got stopped by a guard on the luas tracks who asked me if I was a tram. He got a bit pissed off when i assured him I was. Ask a stupid question...:D

Oh! This is hilarious!

Anyway today my wife and I cycled from Heuston to Phibsboro. We used the Luas lane until Church St and then up to Phibsboro.

I have never felt safest cycling in Dublin. The Luas lanes are a cycling paradise.
Of course, as long as the Luas is not behind you.

mikemac

monument wrote: »

There are massive tracks of the less built up sections on both lines that paths and cycle tracks could have been installed while the lines were been built, but hey the RPA do light rail not transport. (To be fair, on the green line there was apparently a lot of rumblings from residents against such cycle tracks)

Why would residents be against cycle tracks?
Just interested to know, thanks.

Edit: while I know everyone here is sensible I have been on a Luas being held up on Abbey St as a foreign student cycled slowly listening to her ipod.
The Luas drivers sure can swear, I tell ya

Civilian_Target

Why would residents be against cycle tracks?

Basically they didn't want the tracks to be a conduit for kids or "undesirables" to be using, AFAIR (sister lived beside Cowper station so I heard bits of the debate) so walking is completely banned along the sections of the green line. Of course, it means nothing, its easy to walk along and everyone does... shame they didn't have the foresight to make it a cycleway. Maybe next time...

GlennaMaddy

New cyclelane often come at the expense of footpath space or parking spaces for residents, this is why residents frequently oppose cycle lane proposals

ArmaniJeanss

*** Major Bump *** 7 year old thread but seems most relevant.
*********

Stopped by a motorcycle cop whilst on a Dublin Bike at Capel St travelling to Smithfield along the Luas Tracks.
"You see that sign, trams only. You are not a tram". (maybe the same policeman as in post#12 all those years ago!).

Clearly had me bang to rights and told me there was a €650 fine, but that he would let me off because I was at least stopping for red lights. Fair enough, I was all nodding and polite so as not to antagonize him.

Last thing he said pissed me off though; he said that there was figures to back up that it was far safer for me to cycle along the southside quays for the journey I wanted to make. This just seems plain wrong, the luas line seems to be an idyllic stretch of safety for cycling compared to the disaster area of the south quays. Maybe he was right though?

Anyway, might be useful for the dozens of cyclists I see on this stretch to know theres an least one policeman who doesn't turn a blind eye.

Qualitymark

Reminds me of the 1900s rhyme:

O, tell me, Mama, what is that,
That looks like strawberry jam?
Hush, hush, my child, 'tis only Pa,
Run over by a tram.

monument

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Clearly had me bang to rights and told me there was a €650 fine,

There's still no fines expect court fines, which are "up to" X amounts and that would be at the discretion of the judge.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Last thing he said pissed me off though; he said that there was figures to back up that it was far safer for me to cycle along the southside quays for the journey I wanted to make. This just seems plain wrong, the luas line seems to be an idyllic stretch of safety for cycling compared to the disaster area of the south quays. Maybe he was right though?

Use of limited more recent stats could make the tracks seem more dangerous (off the top of my head I think there has been at least one cyclist death on the Luas lines in recent years, with the last on the south quays being a year or two before that).

alentejo

I cycle down Dawson street every day and have done so for years.

I have a horrible feeling that when the new Luas cross City is complete, I will be forced off this road.

a148pro

Far more importantly you're not allowed bring your bike on to the LUAS

even at half eleven when its empty. LUAS man comes on the intercom to tell you to get off or the tram won't leave the stop

after a limited protest decided the better part of valour was to get off and then oblige by cycling home in front of him, beeping like the grumpy prick he was

monument

alentejo wrote: »

I cycle down Dawson street every day and have done so for years.

I have a horrible feeling that when the new Luas cross City is complete, I will be forced off this road.

There's no plan to limit access to anything expect private motoring.

OldBean

Saw the Gardai stopping people on the Liffey Street/Abbey Street junction yesterday. Tough work for them, but fair play.

On another note, can we bring our bikes on the Luas yet? The app has bike signs beside certain stops. Confusing.

monument

OldBean wrote: »

Saw the Gardai stopping people on the Liffey Street/Abbey Street junction yesterday. Tough work for them, but fair play.

On another note, can we bring our bikes on the Luas yet? The app has bike signs beside certain stops. Confusing.

Bike signs show that there's bicycle parking at the stops.

kenmc

a148pro wrote: »

Far more importantly you're not allowed bring your bike on to the LUAS

even at half eleven when its empty. LUAS man comes on the intercom to tell you to get off or the tram won't leave the stop

after a limited protest decided the better part of valour was to get off and then oblige by cycling home in front of him, beeping like the grumpy prick he was

Whilst he may be correct in not allowing you on with a bike, I think he could not refuse to bring you if you happened to be carrying 2 bicycle wheels from one bike, and a completely unrelated :pac: frame. Especially if the frame happened to be masquerading as luggage by wearing a bin liner.