Learner Permit insted of Provisional License

Noskoda

The RSA has today published the new rules for the intoroduction of the new 'Learner Permit' for learner drivers, to replace the existing provisional license currently used. This can be downloaded as a 'Word' file from the RSA website on the publications page.http://www.rsa.ie/publication/publication

On a first reading, existing provisionals will stand until they expire, but after the 30th. October 2007, new and replacement 'provisionals will now be the 'Learner Permit. Changes include NO driving alone by any learner, must always be accompanied, and accompanying driver must have a full license for at least two years. This accompanied rule applies to all learners from October 30th. 2007. One other point i notice is that learners will not be allowed take a test in less than 6 months from obtaining the new permit

TwoShedsJackson

One other point i notice is that learners will not be allowed take a test in less than 6 months from obtaining the new permit

Is there a requirement to take a certain number of lessons with a driving instructor mentioned anywhere?

rusalka

My first provisional licence expires next week! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

If I send in my renewal form for my second one, do you think they will process it or do I have to wait until it expires before applying for my second?

A learner permit would be SERIOUSLY bad news for me - I always drive accompanied by my husband, but although he's an excellent driver, he only got a full licence 6 months ago, so effectively, I would be off the road for the next 18 months!!!!

I think I'm going to cry.

TwoShedsJackson

rusalka wrote: »

My first provisional licence expires next week! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

If I send in my renewal form for my second one, do you think they will process it or do I have to wait until it expires before applying for my second?

A learner permit would be SERIOUSLY bad news for me - I always drive accompanied by my husband, but although he's an excellent driver, he only got a full licence 6 months ago, so effectively, I would be off the road for the next 18 months!!!!

I think I'm going to cry.

If you mean can you try and get a 2nd provisional before the 30th so you can drive unaccompanied, that won't work as 2nd provisional holders will now need to be accompanied too.

ciaran76

Yeah but will they inforce it like they do on the 1st and the 3rd licence ?

TwoShedsJackson

ciaran76 wrote: »

Yeah but will they inforce it like they do on the 1st and the 3rd licence ?

If by that you mean 'not at all' it sounds to me, from reading the documents on the RSA site, that the Gardai are intending to enforce this.

What should happen is if they see someone on 'L' or 'R' plates driving alone, they pull them over, if they have only a provisional licence or permit, they're prosecuted. That's what currently happens in the UK and most if not all other European countries, where flouting this rule means they come down on you very heavily.

Of course then you can take off your 'L' plates, but I would imagine random checkpoints etc. might be brought in to counter this.

Tigger

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

If by that you mean 'not at all' it sounds to me, from reading the documents on the RSA site, that the Gardai are intending to enforce this.

What should happen is if they see someone on 'L' or 'R' plates driving alone, they pull them over, if they have only a provisional licence or permit, they're prosecuted. That's what currently happens in the UK and most if not all other European countries, where flouting this rule means they come down on you very heavily.

Of course then you can take off your 'L' plates, but I would imagine random checkpoints etc. might be brought in to counter this.

girl in front of us at a checkout last week got done
she had l plates so i reckon she was on a provisional

Stark

The interesting thing will be to see if the Gardaí actually enforce this. Otherwise, it'll make sod all difference.

Gregor Samsa

rusalka wrote: »

A learner permit would be SERIOUSLY bad news for me - I always drive accompanied by my husband, but although he's an excellent driver, he only got a full licence 6 months ago, so effectively, I would be off the road for the next 18 months!!!!

I think I'm going to cry.

Do you mind me asking where are you in the country that it takes 78 weeks to get a test? On the www.drivingtest.ie site, they list the longest waiting periods by centre, and the highest on the list is Raheny at 48 weeks. It's still a unacceptably long time, but remember those waiting lists times are not necessarily indicative of how long you will be really waiting. They list Ennis as 29 weeks, but I was only waited for about 6 to get my test there this summer.

Get your test application in now (and get the lessons in!), and you will minimise your waiting time and get your self on the road sooner than you think!

Best of luck...

Stark

phutyle wrote:

Do you mind me asking where are you in the country that it takes 78 weeks to get a test?

According to the initial rumours, you'd have to wait 6 months after getting your permit before applying for your test.

The doc just published says differently though, it says 6 months before you take your test:

• A person who is a first time holder of a learner permit (provisional licence) cannot take a driving test for a six month period after the commencement date of the permit (provisional licence).


Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change will apply to driving test applicants with an appointment date for a test on or after 1 December 2007 and who hold a learner permit (provisional licence) for less than six months. At this point driving tests are scheduled up to this date and the change will not affect existing appointment holders.

Edit: Actually I think what the rusalka means is that her husband won't be qualified to accompany her for another 18 months (has 6 months on license, needs 24).

Rusalka, you should apply for your test now, then you won't be waiting 18 months before you can drive again. You can get lessons from a qualified instructor before the test date (which you'd need to get anyway).

MCMLXXXIII

I have lived in Michigan for a long time, and it is where I got my license. At 14 years and 7 months, you may apply for classes. 24 hours of classroom education (plus homework and exams) and 5 hours of road training with the instructor will get you a Provisional licence ("permit"). On this, you may only drive with a parent or relative, or a sibling if they are 10+ years older. 50 hours of logged time are required, 10 of them in the dark, preferably with all different weather conditions. Once you are 16 years old (or a year past your first class), you may take section 2 of the education, which is 6 hours of classroom education - also with homework and exams. After passing that test, a road test is required. Paralell parking, back-in parking, as well as driving as far as you can through cones that get closer and closer together are tested as well as a road test in neighborhoods, main roads, and the highway. After passing all tests, you get a restricted license. You can drive by yourself, but you may not drive from 12 midnight until 5am. A year after that (17 years old if you are on schedule), you are free to drive wherever and whenever you want, with whoever you want in the car with you. However, if you are written up before you have your full license - you start over. The only difference is Michigan doesn't have different kinds of plates. Besides looking like you are 14 years old while driving alone - they have no idea what kind of license you have until they pull you over and look.

Dish

Just gets better and better doesnt it!!!!

How do they expect people to get around? I work late at night to 3 in the morning and drive home! Do i have to get me mother up now to come in nd sit with me and drive home? If the government had brains they would be dangerous!

Stark

Dish wrote: »

Just gets better and better doesnt it!!!!

How do they expect people to get around?

By applying for and passing your test.

Aedh Baclamh

Don't be stupid.

So what does he do in the meantime (could be from 20 to 40 weeks by the sound of it)?

Stark

The suggestion to apply for his test is stupid? I admit he's in an unenviable position for the time being, but in the long term, the solution for everyone who wants to drive should be to pass their tests, not the current "Irish solution".

I have sympathy for the 140,000 people who are currently on the waiting list for a test. For the other 300,000, this is exactly the wakeup call they need.

Aedh Baclamh

Yes I'm sure he knows now that he'll need to pass his test in order to get around, I don't think you're answer was what he was looking for.

Has anyone got some statistics on the number of accidents/deaths on the roads caused by learner drivers, and the same for those over the alcohol limit? Just curious to see some figures on this.

inertiaman

Hello All,

I must admit I do feel sorry for the people that this will effect however I don't believe that this will be enfoced to the degree that most people are worried that it will. Having said that I still feel relieved to have passed my test this year.

Please note that what follows is not a "Lets bash the Government" rant, it's more of an observation.

As I'm sure many people will agree we have a Government in power who's main priority for some time now has been to maximise the amount of revenue taken in by the exchequer. There are approx 400,000 provisional drivers on our roads who through driving daily generate an astounding amount of Revenue for the Government.

As far as I'm aware over 50% (probably higher) of the price of the petrol you pay for goes to the Government. Every Cent of road tax goes to the Government. VRT on new cars which can go as high as 30% of the total cost of the car goes to the Government. I would imagine that the NCT is quite the Cash Cow also. Many learner drivers regularly pay a toll on the M50 (Governemt Owned) which is exceptionally profitable. On street parking costs go to Local Authorities. When you pay a fine it IS NOT to teach you a lesson, it's another form of revenue for the Government.

The list could go on but this post would be a little too repetitive. By the way this does not take into account the immediate knock on effect that that this would have on the Motoring industry in terms of smaller revenues hence less tax for the Government.

Huge ammounts of cash would need to be invested immediately into public transport and other infrastructure to prevent a backlash from those affected whether they need to get the kids to school or the creche before commuting by car from Meath (just one of many examples) to Dublin whilst avoiding the buses and trains that are already packed to capacity in the morning.

Now I'm not suggesting for one moment that as of Tuesday 400,000 people will park their cars and attempt to get through the day some other way but if even a small percentage did stop driving it would have a far more negative impact than a positive one for various industry and the Exchequer.

For the record I do believe that in the long term this will have a positive impact on road safety but I think it should be implemented gradually.

As a matter of interest you might figure out how much money you spend each year to enjoy the luxury of driving then multiply it by the number of people who will no longer be allowed to drive from Tuesday (400,000).

Let me finish by adding that I find it quite amusing and typically Irish that this life saving measure is to be introduced AFTER a bank holiday weekend which is statistically a far more dangerous time to drive.

rusalka

Stark wrote: »

Edit: Actually I think what the rusalka means is that her husband won't be qualified to accompany her for another 18 months (has 6 months on license, needs 24).

Rusalka, you should apply for your test now, then you won't be waiting 18 months before you can drive again. You can get lessons from a qualified instructor before the test date (which you'd need to get anyway).

Yeah, I'm already in the queue for a test. I took about 8 lessons initially (I was very nervous starting out), and I've followed the law to the letter - I've always been accompanied by someone, be it my husband, a parent, a sibling or whatever.

My husband has mostly accompanied me in the last 6 months, and it's been great to be free to drive wherever I like (apart from the motorways, which I avoid, of course) - the continual practice has built my confidence on the road, and improved my judgement to no end.

I'm so upset that this valuable experience will be taken away from me until I get called for my test (which I'll hopefully pass!), and while I had intended taking a couple of lessons prior to the test, there is simply no way I can afford to pay someone to accompany me continually to keep my practice up until I get called for my test.

Like many things, driving is a skill - it requires continual practice in order to preserve confidence and remain focussed on good technique, and I fear many drivers will loose this.

Fortunately, I don't NEED to drive unaccompanied - however, I know lots of people on 2nd provisionals who NEED the car to drive to work every day (often where there is NO public transport alternative!), and this regulation will make their behaviour illegal overnight should they continue. It's simply not fair, and while I totally agree that they need to overhaul the sham of a system, I think the way they've gone about it - essentially without warning, is just disgusting, and borders on malicious.:(