In the money - huge pay hikes for all!

nesf

You know, there are some very good reasons for paying your politicians, judges and senior politicians "over the odds".

To begin with the bluntest one, it makes bribing them more difficult. A TD on a lean salary is going to be a lot more open to a bribe than one who's being paid well due to basic human nature (i.e. their jobs are worth more to them and they'll be less likely to risk losing them for a bribe). Ditto with a judge, ditto with senior civil servants. Incentives are important etc etc etc. It also necessitates that bribes need to get bigger, and bigger bribes are harder to hide.


Of course, if you believe that politicians, judges etc should be fair, honest, civic martyrs I can see why you might want them paid little but tbh I wouldn't be comfortable with it.


Edit: By the way, I don't in any way think they deserve this. I just can see some logic to overpaying the people at the very top of the country's civil power structure.

Boggle

A TD on a lean salary is going to be a lot more open to a bribe than one who's being paid well due to basic human nature

Or conversely, you could argue that greed begets greed?? Especially in a country where accountability and honestly is regarded as highly as this one....
Couple that to the fact that politics in this country is a family game (whereby our wonderful electorate will vote for someone based solely on their surname) and you don't actually end up with a better class of politician - regardless of how well they might be paid. It just becomes an even cosier little circle...

Were the politicians delivering anywhere near the levels which would be required to achieve the ame levels of pay in the private sector then I'd be absolutely delighted to give them that raise and more besides - but as long as Europe continues to use Dublin as an example of how NOT to plan a city, as long as our healthcare remains in the state it is and the duped electorate have been forced to borrow increasing amounts (housing) to fund the imaginary tiger I wont be happy with it.


The other issue with having policymakers earning approx 10 times the industrial average wage is that they lose touch with reality and that they would do almost anything to hold onto the job - which can lead to weak, appeasing, spineless and corrupt government (sound familiar?!).

I am honestly starting to believe the only way to fix this country is through armed revolution and it scares the hell out of me that I'm not joking in the slightest.

Unfortunately there's an element of truth in what you say. Our system clearly does not work and does not deliver in any area and unless the will is generated somewhere to get a more involved system of government we are doomed to the same shower of idiots (different faces maybe) for all eternity. The only hope we have is that the coming recession (and if you have no involvement in the building game, or rely on analysts for your opinions, you probably can't see just how bad things really are in this country) will shock our pampered little electorate into waking up...

nesf

Boggle wrote: »

The other issue with having policymakers earning approx 10 times the industrial average wage is that they lose touch with reality and that they would do almost anything to hold onto the job - which can lead to weak, appeasing, spineless and corrupt government (sound familiar?!).

Eh, and how would paying them peanuts and making very small bribes suddenly a lot more attractive improve things? I can empathise with the sentiment of "they didn't earn it" but the logic of it dictates that we should overpay them to some extent, just give them increased incentives to stay "honest".

Putting all the TDs, judges and senior civil servants on 30K a year might seem "fair" to some but it'd be a really bad idea.

nesf

nesf wrote: »

Eh, and how would paying them peanuts and making very small bribes suddenly a lot more attractive improve things?

A small point - I think it's horribly sad that we have to accept that (some) politicans would probably take bribes should they not be paid enough, to the extent that we provide incentives so that they don't take bribes.

nesf

Myth wrote: »

A small point - I think it's horribly sad that we have to accept that (some) politicans would probably take bribes should they not be paid enough, to the extent that we provide incentives so that they don't take bribes.

I think that ignoring the possibility is too dangerous to be worth maintaining idealism about politics tbh. Its a factor that people need to keep in mind when deciding on whether they should be paid large amounts or not.

nesf

nesf wrote: »

I think that ignoring the possibility is too dangerous to be worth maintaining idealism about politics tbh. Its a factor that people need to keep in mind when deciding on whether they should be paid large amounts or not.

Yup, agree completely. But still fairly depressing all the same.

Boggle

Eh, and how would paying them peanuts and making very small bribes suddenly a lot more attractive improve things?

I never said to pay them peanuts ...

I can empathise with the sentiment of "they didn't earn it" but the logic of it dictates that we should overpay them to some extent, just give them increased incentives to stay "honest".

But surely the point whereby we would be paying them over the odds was passed over 100K ago...

Putting all the TDs, judges and senior civil servants on 30K a year might seem "fair" to some but it'd be a really bad idea.

Unfortunately, while they may get a very good idea of how their electorate live - so tending towards a very socialist government - 30K pa would be too low to attract quality into the field.

to the extent that we provide incentives so that they don't take bribes.

The extent should be criminal prosecution with sever terms of imprisonment for even the slightest transgression. Advocating throwing money at the issue and hoping it'll go away is just not an answer and has never worked...

nesf

Boggle wrote: »

I never said to pay them peanuts ...

But surely the point whereby we would be paying them over the odds was passed over 100K ago...

Unfortunately, while they may get a very good idea of how their electorate live - so tending towards a very socialist government - 30K pa would be too low to attract quality into the field.

The extent should be criminal prosecution with sever terms of imprisonment for even the slightest transgression. Advocating throwing money at the issue and hoping it'll go away is just not an answer and has never worked...

And I'm not saying that we should pay them seven figure sums but when you look at the amount of money in the top jobs in the private sector these aren't big salaries really (and yes this isn't "fair"). There is some benefit to paying over the odds in order to reduce their incentives to accept bribes, it is most certainly not the only way to do this and so on and we should look at other avenues but seriously, throwing them in prison for long terms over minor offences is effectively throwing money at the problem and could very easily (considering the costs involved) work out more expensive than giving them an extra 5K a year or whatever.

Thrill

Sleepy wrote:

I am honestly starting to believe the only way to fix this country is through armed revolution and it scares the hell out of me that I'm not joking in the slightest.

Give us a break. Death and destruction because of an admittedly large pay hike is really going way OTT. The people of Burma (Myanmar) have a reason for going this far but we are a long way from that kind of problem here.

the_syco

Sleepy wrote: »

I am honestly starting to believe the only way to fix this country is through armed revolution and it scares the hell out of me that I'm not joking in the slightest.

There's a Shinner in everyone, it would seem...

=-=

Oh, and I'd like to say a f**k you to the Opposition. The ones that only picked at what Bertie said, never had any realistic counter-plans, aside from "that sucks", and thought we should elect them purely cos they went up against Bertie.

Sleepy

nesf wrote: »

I think that ignoring the possibility is too dangerous to be worth maintaining idealism about politics tbh. Its a factor that people need to keep in mind when deciding on whether they should be paid large amounts or not.

Cheaper solution - pay them a realistic salary index linked to the national average wage (say in the order of three times the average?) and impose a death sentence for corruption.

Thrill wrote: »

Give us a break. Death and destruction because of an admittedly large pay hike is really going way OTT. The people of Burma (Myanmar) have a reason for going this far but we are a long way from that kind of problem here.

TBH, the pay raise is the straw that's broken this camel's back.

This country has too many politicians, too many political dynasties, too few competent people putting themselves forth for election, too relaxed an attitude to corruption, too few ideals, too much greed and too little sense to do anything about it at election time.

Armed revolution was possibly a bad choice of wording. I'd be thinking more along the lines of Collins' hit squads of the 20's than storming the GPO.

walshb

But little Jay and Rocco will need the extra few bob when they start school:)
Isn't this what Ahern tried to con us with when Dobson interviewed
him about the payments scandal last year, how he was in financial trouble
and how his family (Daughters) needed the money for schooling

There's just no level that these people will NOT stoop too...

We are truly a banana republic....

Tea drinker

Well,
I simply don't understand why politicians have to be paid more here than anywhere else.

1. Why aren't they paid relative to the size / responsibilty of the job / country.
2. If they are to be benchmarked against the private sector, is the private sector in Ireland really earning that much more than the rest of the world? I know we have some large corp. in Ireland, but are the CEO in Ireland really paid more than those in the megacorp in US, UK or Norway?

There seems to be no way to explain the high salaries here.
I know someone has suggested it's better that we pay them a legitimate bribe, but that doesn't work for me.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

Armed revolution was possibly a bad choice of wording. I'd be thinking more along the lines of Collins' hit squads of the 20's than storming the GPO.

This isn't the comedy forum you know

Generally speaking when I find a lot of the general public disagree with a view,I revisit that view to see whats wrong with it.Sometimes I'll maintain the view and just respect others viewpoints or take them on board.
This current government was returned by inteligent people aswell as uninteligent people,they all have a right to have done that.

Will Enda Kenny be returning his pay rise this year or not claiming the pension he is entitled to having served as a minister in the last rainbow government?
Will he be even sending half of it to Goal ? I doubt it.
I agree this latest pay rise was taking the mick pay wise but theres a lot of hot air being spouted about it.Relative to the countries whose PM's wages have been mentioned so far,which of them did the better job in managing their country in the last 10 years?(Remember the pay is related to performance)
How did this country go from a situation a little over ten years ago of being a hand out basket case to what it is now?
Did the fairies do it?

I can find a lot of things wrong with the country I'm living in but I can tell you that theres (and by a vast majority) a lot more things right about it than wrong.
For sure some of the wrong things can be annoying but hey thats life, some things just can't be fixed because human nature gets in the way.
I wouldn't be in a hurry to go to hospital in Kent for instance despite Michael moores raving about how good the NHS is....
I'll try and work a bit harder and afford private health care such is my lack of faith in reforming our bloated creaking at the seams,money thrown at it from all angles health service.

Sleepy

Tristrame wrote: »

Did the fairies do it?

Well, they had about as much to do with it as the current government...

the only thing they can take credit for in our economy is the property bubble.

Sleepy

Tristrame wrote: »

This isn't the comedy forum you know

As much as it scares me to admit it even to myself, I'm actually serious. I think there's more than one member of the Dail (and many of our unions and state bodies) that would better serve this country as organ doners than in their current positions.

I was largely responding to negativity and whinge whinge whingyness, a quality I hate in people.
I'd not be of the view that this country could have gottten out of its basket case situation with out something semi competent steering it but I do reckon going on their performance from 94 to 97 that FG/Lab would probably have steered it in a similar direction.
I don't what mechanism they'd have had in place for pay hikes but you can be sure that it would have been generous.


Sleepy take the pseudo Rah talk to somewhere else will ya please thanks.

Colonel Sanders

Tristrame wrote: »

I agree this latest pay rise was taking the mick pay wise but theres a lot of hot air being spouted about it.Relative to the countries whose PM's wages have been mentioned so far,which of them did the better job in managing their country in the last 10 years?(Remember the pay is related to performance)

But how much of this was directly FF's doing (apart from letting the building industry get away with murder)?

Does this mean that in future ministers who waste millions on scandals such as e-voting will get a pay decrease (or even better, the sack). I think not.

I think most people's beef with this is that almost straight after had Brian Cowen made statments about cut backs in public spending the government ministers and senior civil servants are awarded pay hikes costing the tax payer €16m a year. People who, IMO, were already over paid.

Tea drinker

Tristrame wrote: »

This current government was returned by inteligent people aswell as uninteligent people,they all have a right to have done that.

A lot of people voted for FF because
1. it was what they knew
2. Were afraid of the other crowd - they might have done an even worse job.

Of course this just shows again the poor quality of the opposition.
And the conspiracy theory is they done a poor job on the election because the sh!t is about to hit the fan, economically speaking.

Colonel Sanders

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

But how much of this was directly FF's doing (apart from letting the building industry get away with murder)?

Does this mean that in future ministers who waste millions on scandals such as e-voting will get a pay decrease (or even better, the sack). I think not.

Governments especially Irish governments are slow to sack huge vote getters and understandably so.
Regarding evoting-yeah sure-that was a whopping mistake [not e voting as a principle but the shambolic machines] , but and it's a big but context is everything.Politicians will make some mistakes and the better the country is doing, the bigger the mistakes look when examined in isolation.

I think most people's beef with this is that almost straight after had Brian Cowen made statments about cut backs in public spending the government ministers and senior civil servants are awarded pay hikes costing the tax payer €16m a year. People who, IMO, were already over paid.

Thats timing for you.
They didn't cancel any of the bench marking least of all their own.They pushed it as a solution to a public sector pay demands that a lot of people would not have liked and largely it worked out with a blip with respect to the nurses.
We're not alone though with resource problems and wage problems in the health sector-just look at our near neighbour.Expecting us to have the cure all that everybody agree's with is la la land in my opinion.

You see you can trim costs but it's not a good idea in the long term to trim peoples salaries as part of the cost cutting-then you really do start getting chaff applying for the jobs.
I suppose the Government have been too cócky in taking these latest rises and by any standards enormous rises.It would have been more in their line to defer the bulk of the rise given the level their salaries are already at.
It's not the views on that I'm rejecting,It's the propensity a lot of people seem to have for un necessary whinging.
Theres no concept of relativity.
It's all wah wah wah whinge whinge with some.
Clearly not every one thinks like that though or we would have changed our government.

jmayo

Tea drinker wrote: »

A lot of people voted for FF because
1. it was what they knew
2. Were afraid of the other crowd - they might have done an even worse job.

Of course this just shows again the poor quality of the opposition.
And the conspiracy theory is they done a poor job on the election because the sh!t is about to hit the fan, economically speaking.

It could only happen in Ireland that the opposition is blamed for the wrong doing of the government :rolleyes:

FF/PDs were eternally blessed by the arrival of cheap credit just at the right time.
The great hyped Celtic tiger really died back in 2001.
Since then we have effectively generated our wealth through the availability of cheap credit and the overhpyed residential property market.
We have continously lost jobs within manufacturing and indeed some of the service industries.
And anybody that did complain, or in the words of bertie baffoon, "whinge" that it wasn't sustainable was told to sod off and stop talking the economy down :rolleyes:
The people struggling to get on the gravy train or those who were already on it just wanted to make sure the person who kept the party going was kept in power.
But the fallout from the last five/six years of party will probably leave one long hangover for a lot of people.

And before anyone says it, how many politicans have ever stood up and omcplained about pay hikes, Joe Higgins and Tony Gregory apart ?

Colonel Sanders

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

.

If I was just after finishing college I'd be giving serious consideration to jumping ship and getting out of this bloody country.

Tea drinker wrote: »

NEWSFLASH:
IF YOU ARE YOUNG ENOUGH - LEAVE NOW THE SH!TBOX COUNTRY IS GOING TO IMPLODE.

why!! (im interested in your responses because Im currently back in college and my plan is to jump ship as soon as Im done)

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

I am honestly starting to believe the only way to fix this country is through armed revolution and it scares the hell out of me that I'm not joking in the slightest.

dear lord!!

why not just walk away like the others are talkin!

Tea drinker

jmayo wrote: »

It could only happen in Ireland that the opposition is blamed for the wrong doing of the government :rolleyes:

FF/PDs were eternally blessed by the arrival of cheap credit just at the right time.
The great hyped Celtic tiger really died back in 2001.
Since then we have effectively generated our wealth through the availability of cheap credit and the overhpyed residential property market.
We have continously lost jobs within manufacturing and indeed some of the service industries.
And anybody that did complain, or in the words of bertie baffoon, "whinge" that it wasn't sustainable was told to sod off and stop talking the economy down :rolleyes:
The people struggling to get on the gravy train or those who were already on it just wanted to make sure the person who kept the party going was kept in power.
But the fallout from the last five/six years of party will probably leave one long hangover for a lot of people.

And before anyone says it, how many politicans have ever stood up and omcplained about pay hikes, Joe Higgins and Tony Gregory apart ?

Think of the opposition as the "conscience" of the gov. - you know like in real countries. These guys have the inside line on politics so should be in the lead to expose wrongdoing. However, nobody can really blame them for the current mess because they are not in power. This is a classic FF mess, and they are responsible.
We can however say the opposition should live up to their title at least. Their performance out of office giving us a sneak preview of what to expect when in.

The rest of your post is 100%

aidan24326

Bertie and his esteemed ministerial colleagues deserve every penny. Truly marvellous men with honesty, integrity and tremendously astute use of public funds. I'd give them more money, sure poor Bertie has daughters to feed and now there's little Jay and Rocco aswell with hardly a pair of shoes between them.

http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgallery/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10064094

Madness

Mrs Roy Keane

why are the getting pay increases what have they done f-ck all?

They should be getting pay cuts

look at the amount of homeless in Ireland and also the health crisis/hospital crisis thats where the money should be going

mike65

Tristrame wrote: »

Theres no concept of relativity.

Tis a pity the ahem, 'independent panel' that awarded the rises did'nt have a sense of relativity.

That bit in the Economist is madness,

BERTIE AHERN, Ireland's taoiseach (prime minister), has good reason to smile. He recently accepted his 26th pay rise in ten years,

26th??????????????????????????????????????????????????

Mike.

Mrs Roy Keane

Mrs Roy Keane wrote: »

look at the amount of homeless in Ireland

I deliberately don't give money personally to people on the streets with cups...A lot of them should get up off their backsides and fill some of the loads of un skilled jobs that are out there-I heard the likes of Aldi are paying €10 to €12 an hour

and also the health crisis/hospital crisis thats where the money should be going

Short of the politicians standing in the corridoors oversee'ing whats going on what do you expect a politician to do exactly there?
Theres a lot of bureocratic nonsense fowling up our hospital system.
Try overhaul it and see what the unions will do? yup strike probably.

My best advice to anyone giving out about this is to smoke 20 less a day and buy private health insurance with the saving.I've given up on the public service co operating with the idea of being effecient (sometimes).
At least if you regularally don't meet your targets in the private system, you might lose your job so the incentive is to deliver rather than take that sicky on a friday and a monday...

nesf

Tristrame wrote: »

I've given up on the public service co operating with the idea of being effecient (sometimes).

Yeah, the problem is convincing people to fire themselves (which is essentially what you need to do to trim numbers in the public service) isn't exactly an easy trick to pull off.

Colonel Sanders

nesf wrote: »

Yeah, the problem is convincing people to fire themselves (which is essentially what you need to do to trim numbers in the public service) isn't exactly an easy trick to pull off.

True. However why the hell isn't 'natural wastage' used to trim numbers in the public sector?

I know several people who work in all areas of the public sector. Some work hard as they haven't enough staff in their dept, some do almost nothing as there are twice as many staff in their dept as is needed. Would unions oppose people being made move departments if the physical location of the job was not changed?

nesf

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I know several people who work in all areas of the public sector. Some work hard as they haven't enough staff in their dept, some do almost nothing as there are twice as many staff in their dept as is needed.

Generally, that's how you tell public servants from civil servants.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Would unions oppose people being made move departments if the physical location of the job was not changed?

Yes, I imagine they would find something about the move to create a fuss over.

Mrs Roy Keane

Tristrame wrote: »

I deliberately don't give money personally to people on the streets with cups...A lot of them should get up off their backsides and fill some of the loads of un skilled jobs that are out there-I heard the likes of Aldi are paying €10 to €12 an hour
Short of the politicians standing in the corridoors oversee'ing whats going on what do you expect a politician to do exactly there?
Theres a lot of bureocratic nonsense fowling up our hospital system.
Try overhaul it and see what the unions will do? yup strike probably.

My best advice to anyone giving out about this is to smoke 20 less a day and buy private health insurance with the saving.I've given up on the public service co operating with the idea of being effecient (sometimes).
At least if you regularally don't meet your targets in the private system, you might lose your job so the incentive is to deliver rather than take that sicky on a friday and a monday...

They could put the money into the hospitals instead of giving it to the government it would be a start.

It would be eaten up by administration and ineffeciencies and have little perceivable affect.
A better idea might be to give it to Goal.

ednwireland

what annoys me is the 26th pay rise in 10 years this really is unjustifiable i havent had a pay rise in 5 years (i work for myself) if i put up my rates i'd get less work.

as to the guy talking about beggars has he ever tried getting a job when you havent got an address evan at aldi try it sometime. help is what a llot of this people need in housing education etc.

Really ?
That article aside..

Harney was on the news at one today saying that it was the First payrise in seven years and that it was being implimented over the next two years to be completed by this time in 2009.

She ended by saying to the journalists that you wouldn't want to believe everything you read in the papers.

There were roars of laughter audible from the journalists.

See it's funny how we all seem to be talking for the last few days about something the details of which we are ill informed on...

gurramok

Someone is telling porkies, harney or the papers?

Even the economist magazine agrees with ednwireland on the 26th part.
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10064708

If its untrue, shall we see Bertie sueing the papers for defamation?

mike65

If we had a more transparent and accountable public service such misunderstandings would'nt happen of course.

Mike.

Akrasia

Tristrame wrote: »

Really ?
That article aside..

Harney was on the news at one today saying that it was the First payrise in seven years and that it was being implimented over the next two years to be completed by this time in 2009.

She ended by saying to the journalists that you wouldn't want to believe everything you read in the papers.

There were roars of laughter audible from the journalists.

See it's funny how we all seem to be talking for the last few days about something the details of which we are ill informed on...

Um, Bertie and the other senior ministers have received an average of 2 pay rises every year since 1997
His salary has increased by almost 150% in 10 years.

A SBP survey in 2005 found that Ahern and his cabinet had received 22 separate pay rises since 1997 In the last 2 years they received 5 more increases and are due 3 more next year.

What was said by Hearny might be technically true (about how the whole civil service had only had a collective pay review once in 10 years, but the claim that there hadn't been increases in 7 years is a gross misrepresentation of the facts, and in reference to her own salary is spin bordering on an outright lie. http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS+FEATURES-qqqs=news-qqqid=27760-qqqx=1.asp

‘‘I don’t [have any interest in personal wealth] . . . If I had done those things [become a tax consultant] I would be a very wealthy guy.”

‘‘But I opted not to do that. If I can go on my annual holidays to Kerry, get a few days sometimes, if I can get now and again to Old Trafford, if I have enough money for a few pints and if I can look after Miriam and the kids, I don’t care a damn, I couldn’t care.”

‘‘And tomorrow if I hadn’t got very much, it wouldn’t matter. I’m well paid so I can’t moan. But if I hadn’t got that I wouldn’t moan too much either.”

‘‘I have no desire to have a big house, no desire to have land. I’d consider it a nuisance, actually.”

‘‘I’m glad I don’t own Chequers or don’t have Number 10 or the Elysee Palace. If you want to build those in, then you know what the figures would be. I certainly don’t want the White House. There is no comparison and I think people know that.”

– Bertie Ahern (taken from various interviews)

walshb

Well I think Bertie put it quiet well today when he said about the pay rise issue:

"Such an action would simply be playing 'smokes and daggers' with the issue"

Man, our Bertie is some Boyo!!!!!!!

He might want to use some of that pay rise
to go back to school......

Hang on lads,I'm only repeating what I heard on the radio...
I would like to know what it means.It's not the first time I heard that statistic in recent days,It doesn't stand up to even a cursorary google I'll agree.

More background on what akrasia posted here - it applies a tad more context.

Fourteen of the 22 pay increases were under national wage agreements and were also paid to all public servants and to most workers.

The average industrial wage has increased in the same period from €19,300 to just under €30,000.

Of the remaining eight increases awarded to the Taoiseach and members of the cabinet, five were the result of special reviews of higher remuneration in the public service, including one passed by the cabinet last week which will see them benefit by 7.5 per cent of their ministerial salaries.

Cabinet salaries consist of two components – a TD's pay plus an office-holder's pay.

The remaining three increases were the three installments of benchmarking. These increases only applied to the TDs' component of ministers' total salaries.

Last week, defending the increases recommended by the Review Body, the Taoiseach said that the beneficiaries were not covered by benchmarking. However, this is only true as far as their office-holders' salary is concerned.

In fact, all ministers, the Taoiseach and the Tanaiste did receive increases under benchmarking.

Last week's 7.5 per cent increase was the highest increase of the last eight years. While many of the 22 increases were small increments awarded under national wage agreements, seven of the increases were either 5 per cent or 5.5 per cent.

The increases are not an invention of the Fianna Fáil-PD coalition; a few months before the Rainbow government left office in 1997, ministers were awarded a 15 per cent pay increase.

Last week's increases were designed to close a gap that the Review Body - headed by C&C chairman Tony O'Brien - said has emerged between the salaries of ministers and senior public servants and equivalent grades in the private sector.

As well as ministers, the awards covered judges, chief executives of semi-state companies, senior gardai, local authorities managers, senior army officers, hospital consultants and senior civil servants.

The Review Body found that “serious anomalies or inequities'‘ existed between the public and private sector, although it did not consider the value of public sector pensions.

The awards made last week are only interim awards -more awards will be made when the Review Body issues a full report in 2007.

El Stuntman

this is funny, but in a 'funny because it's true' kind of way

anyone feel it's accurate?

mike65

I like the last comment (number 11) !

Mike.

El Stuntman

comment number 16 was interesting I felt

Paper never refuses ink I felt.

Liam Byrne

Tristrame wrote: »

Paper never refuses ink I felt.

True - and particularly when it's a cheque for the Taoiseach (whether from us taxpayers or otherwise).....

The word "prick" doesn't even come close to describe this self-interested wanker of a Taoiseach... :mad:

As someone pointed out in TwentyMajor's blog, there's no problem with someone getting well paid but, like Staunton or any normal person, they should be reprimanded if they screw up and fired if they screw up big-time.

And with Shannon, eVoting, Tara, rising crime levels, dire inflation, health services, privatisation (Aer Lingus and Eircom) and god-knows-what else going down the swanee, this crowd have the nerve to not only not fire themselves, but give themselves a pay rise!!!! :eek: PLUS, even if we fire them, they'll get a pension - again at OUR expense!!!!! :mad:

What planet are they actually on ? And can we send them back to it so that we can have decent lives in this country ?

Welcome to the Ireland of Fianna Failure......

heyjude

impr0v wrote: »

Not support as such, and I am surprised at the comparison to the other leader's salaries, but when compared to a CEO of a mid to large company it's still fairly small.

Its always possible for them to find someone to compare their salary with, in order to justify an increase. But we seem to be the only country who equates the salary of the prime minister/president to the top chief executives in industry. The British/French/Germans/Americans clearly don't as otherwise their leaders would be paid millions each year. But Ireland isn't a company, so comparing wages in politics to those in banks/construction companies is a nonsense.

If industry bosses here earned less then the spindoctors would be comparing Bertie's wages to other world leaders, its all PR, make the comparison that shows the increase in the best light.

As for paying Bertie and the Ministers on their merit, what have the likes of Cullen, Dempsey and Co done to deserve such a bonus, except to mess up and waste money.

Now how can Brian Cowan, after agreeing to receive such an huge increase, stand up and with a straight face have the nerve to tell workers to moderate their wage demands ? He has to be careful or he will be more unpopular than Bertie even before he becomes Taioseach!

sovtek

heyjude wrote: »

Its always possible for them to find someone to compare their salary with, in order to justify an increase. But we seem to be the only country who equates the salary of the prime minister/president to the top chief executives in industry. The British/French/Germans/Americans clearly don't as otherwise their leaders would be paid millions each year. But Ireland isn't a company, so comparing wages in politics to those in banks/construction companies is a nonsense.

If industry bosses here earned less then the spindoctors would be comparing Bertie's wages to other world leaders, its all PR, make the comparison that shows the increase in the best light.

As for paying Bertie and the Ministers on their merit, what have the likes of Cullen, Dempsey and Co done to deserve such a bonus, except to mess up and waste money.

Now how can Brian Cowan, after agreeing to receive such an huge increase, stand up and with a straight face have the nerve to tell workers to moderate their wage demands ? He has to be careful or he will be more unpopular than Bertie even before he becomes Taioseach!

But wait Bertie nor Harney are responsible for anything either. :rolleyes:

DrumSteve

i like cowen...he seems the intelligent sort.

but ive burned my bridges with fianna fail. i come from an ultra fianna fail family and even my parents have turned there backs on bertie. they would vote for the other parties except there populated by idiots.

bertie should have been wise enough to know the backlash that would follow this. even if bertie,biffo and one or two others think they can justify their pay rises how can others like dempsey,cullen and harney justify theirs? and then have the brass balls to tell regular people to tighten their belts?

they must really think the people of this country are fools... and in a way they are right cos people are gonna vote them in the next time too.

i think with all the scandals people are starting to become apathetic to the state the country is in. there really seems to be nothing we can do about it.
sure didnt it take brendan gleeson on the late late to get mary harney off her fat arse and get some answers for the increasingly unaccountable HSE.

Greed is leading from the top in this country.

JerkyBoy

The figures explain themselves.
Before the last major pay review in 2000 Bertie's salary was 145,462, wheras today it is now 285,413.

That's an increase of 96.21% over 7 years.

So his spin that his pay increase is justified because it is the first time his pay has been reviewed in 7 years is a crock! He's been getting a very steady and very steep increase every couple of years.

Within that space of time the average industrial wage has increased from 22,682 in 2000 to 32,616 today.
That'll be a bit over 10 grand for the entire decade. Bertie will have gotten an increase of around 170 grand over the decade.

The man is a snivelling scumbag, not worth the money we pay him!
Nor are the rest of the clowns in our Government!