In the money - huge pay hikes for all!

Hang on lads,I'm only repeating what I heard on the radio...
I would like to know what it means.It's not the first time I heard that statistic in recent days,It doesn't stand up to even a cursorary google I'll agree.

More background on what akrasia posted here - it applies a tad more context.

Fourteen of the 22 pay increases were under national wage agreements and were also paid to all public servants and to most workers.

The average industrial wage has increased in the same period from €19,300 to just under €30,000.

Of the remaining eight increases awarded to the Taoiseach and members of the cabinet, five were the result of special reviews of higher remuneration in the public service, including one passed by the cabinet last week which will see them benefit by 7.5 per cent of their ministerial salaries.

Cabinet salaries consist of two components – a TD's pay plus an office-holder's pay.

The remaining three increases were the three installments of benchmarking. These increases only applied to the TDs' component of ministers' total salaries.

Last week, defending the increases recommended by the Review Body, the Taoiseach said that the beneficiaries were not covered by benchmarking. However, this is only true as far as their office-holders' salary is concerned.

In fact, all ministers, the Taoiseach and the Tanaiste did receive increases under benchmarking.

Last week's 7.5 per cent increase was the highest increase of the last eight years. While many of the 22 increases were small increments awarded under national wage agreements, seven of the increases were either 5 per cent or 5.5 per cent.

The increases are not an invention of the Fianna Fáil-PD coalition; a few months before the Rainbow government left office in 1997, ministers were awarded a 15 per cent pay increase.

Last week's increases were designed to close a gap that the Review Body - headed by C&C chairman Tony O'Brien - said has emerged between the salaries of ministers and senior public servants and equivalent grades in the private sector.

As well as ministers, the awards covered judges, chief executives of semi-state companies, senior gardai, local authorities managers, senior army officers, hospital consultants and senior civil servants.

The Review Body found that “serious anomalies or inequities'‘ existed between the public and private sector, although it did not consider the value of public sector pensions.

The awards made last week are only interim awards -more awards will be made when the Review Body issues a full report in 2007.

El Stuntman

this is funny, but in a 'funny because it's true' kind of way

anyone feel it's accurate?

mike65

I like the last comment (number 11) !

Mike.

El Stuntman

comment number 16 was interesting I felt

Paper never refuses ink I felt.

Liam Byrne

Tristrame wrote: »

Paper never refuses ink I felt.

True - and particularly when it's a cheque for the Taoiseach (whether from us taxpayers or otherwise).....

The word "prick" doesn't even come close to describe this self-interested wanker of a Taoiseach... :mad:

As someone pointed out in TwentyMajor's blog, there's no problem with someone getting well paid but, like Staunton or any normal person, they should be reprimanded if they screw up and fired if they screw up big-time.

And with Shannon, eVoting, Tara, rising crime levels, dire inflation, health services, privatisation (Aer Lingus and Eircom) and god-knows-what else going down the swanee, this crowd have the nerve to not only not fire themselves, but give themselves a pay rise!!!! :eek: PLUS, even if we fire them, they'll get a pension - again at OUR expense!!!!! :mad:

What planet are they actually on ? And can we send them back to it so that we can have decent lives in this country ?

Welcome to the Ireland of Fianna Failure......

heyjude

impr0v wrote: »

Not support as such, and I am surprised at the comparison to the other leader's salaries, but when compared to a CEO of a mid to large company it's still fairly small.

Its always possible for them to find someone to compare their salary with, in order to justify an increase. But we seem to be the only country who equates the salary of the prime minister/president to the top chief executives in industry. The British/French/Germans/Americans clearly don't as otherwise their leaders would be paid millions each year. But Ireland isn't a company, so comparing wages in politics to those in banks/construction companies is a nonsense.

If industry bosses here earned less then the spindoctors would be comparing Bertie's wages to other world leaders, its all PR, make the comparison that shows the increase in the best light.

As for paying Bertie and the Ministers on their merit, what have the likes of Cullen, Dempsey and Co done to deserve such a bonus, except to mess up and waste money.

Now how can Brian Cowan, after agreeing to receive such an huge increase, stand up and with a straight face have the nerve to tell workers to moderate their wage demands ? He has to be careful or he will be more unpopular than Bertie even before he becomes Taioseach!

sovtek

heyjude wrote: »

Its always possible for them to find someone to compare their salary with, in order to justify an increase. But we seem to be the only country who equates the salary of the prime minister/president to the top chief executives in industry. The British/French/Germans/Americans clearly don't as otherwise their leaders would be paid millions each year. But Ireland isn't a company, so comparing wages in politics to those in banks/construction companies is a nonsense.

If industry bosses here earned less then the spindoctors would be comparing Bertie's wages to other world leaders, its all PR, make the comparison that shows the increase in the best light.

As for paying Bertie and the Ministers on their merit, what have the likes of Cullen, Dempsey and Co done to deserve such a bonus, except to mess up and waste money.

Now how can Brian Cowan, after agreeing to receive such an huge increase, stand up and with a straight face have the nerve to tell workers to moderate their wage demands ? He has to be careful or he will be more unpopular than Bertie even before he becomes Taioseach!

But wait Bertie nor Harney are responsible for anything either. :rolleyes:

DrumSteve

i like cowen...he seems the intelligent sort.

but ive burned my bridges with fianna fail. i come from an ultra fianna fail family and even my parents have turned there backs on bertie. they would vote for the other parties except there populated by idiots.

bertie should have been wise enough to know the backlash that would follow this. even if bertie,biffo and one or two others think they can justify their pay rises how can others like dempsey,cullen and harney justify theirs? and then have the brass balls to tell regular people to tighten their belts?

they must really think the people of this country are fools... and in a way they are right cos people are gonna vote them in the next time too.

i think with all the scandals people are starting to become apathetic to the state the country is in. there really seems to be nothing we can do about it.
sure didnt it take brendan gleeson on the late late to get mary harney off her fat arse and get some answers for the increasingly unaccountable HSE.

Greed is leading from the top in this country.

JerkyBoy

The figures explain themselves.
Before the last major pay review in 2000 Bertie's salary was 145,462, wheras today it is now 285,413.

That's an increase of 96.21% over 7 years.

So his spin that his pay increase is justified because it is the first time his pay has been reviewed in 7 years is a crock! He's been getting a very steady and very steep increase every couple of years.

Within that space of time the average industrial wage has increased from 22,682 in 2000 to 32,616 today.
That'll be a bit over 10 grand for the entire decade. Bertie will have gotten an increase of around 170 grand over the decade.

The man is a snivelling scumbag, not worth the money we pay him!
Nor are the rest of the clowns in our Government!

Colonel Sanders

agree jerkyboy but we get the govt we deserve.....

Liam Byrne

Careful, Jerkyboy.....while I personally agree with you 100% there's a good chance that calling our esteemed Taoiseach names might get you into trouble around here......

What annoys me is when people attempt to justify exhoribitant and unacceptable salaries by saying that politicians could be unemployed after just 5 years, and try to compare it to people in other jobs....

1) It's not 5 years - they only work about a quarter of the year
2) If they're any good they'll be voted in/kept on after the 5 years (whereas if I was as crap at my job as Ahern/Harney/Cullen/Dempsey I'd be sacked in no time)
3) There's no job ANYWHERE that gives you a pension like a TDs pension, even while you're still working in the same job afterwards.....

And Bertie & Cowen are as bad as Haughey.....telling us we'll all have to tighten our belts while not doing a tap and lining their own pockets with OUR money :mad:

Geldof was spot-on....Banana Republic :mad:

sovtek

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Careful, Jerkyboy.....while I personally agree with you 100% there's a good chance that calling our esteemed Taoiseach names might get you into trouble around here......

Why is it that giving our opinion on public figures (however harsh) is now verboten?

Because sovtek theres no need for it in what is supposed to be a civilised debating forum.
You can debate with decorum and without name calling.
You wouldn't see it on a prime time panel or on Questions and answers and it won't be tolerated here.
I will be giving infractions when I see that kind of carry on.

I'd also like to remind posters that discussion of moderation in threads is not allowed and if I see a poster at that again,they will get a 1 month ban.

Mr.Micro

Bertie and Co. get a fair bit of stick on the Boards . If there was a credible opposition ,even a few TDs, it would liven up the Dail and give any Government the grilling it needs to keep it in touch, instead we have a pathetic opposition and not one terrier in the lot ,so it is left to the Boards for people to sound off I guess .

walshb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Careful, Jerkyboy.....while I personally agree with you 100% there's a good chance that calling our esteemed Taoiseach names might get you into trouble around here......

What annoys me is when people attempt to justify exhoribitant and unacceptable salaries by saying that politicians could be unemployed after just 5 years, and try to compare it to people in other jobs....

1) It's not 5 years - they only work about a quarter of the year
2) If they're any good they'll be voted in/kept on after the 5 years (whereas if I was as crap at my job as Ahern/Harney/Cullen/Dempsey I'd be sacked in no time)
3) There's no job ANYWHERE that gives you a pension like a TDs pension, even while you're still working in the same job afterwards.....

And Bertie & Cowen are as bad as Haughey.....telling us we'll all have to tighten our belts while not doing a tap and lining their own pockets with OUR money :mad:

Geldof was spot-on....Banana Republic :mad:

Geldof was SPOT on but it didn't STOP him lecturing and pleading with the government to increase taxpayers money for Africa did it:rolleyes:

Mr.Micro

Banana republic or not ,it is up to the new generation of Irish people to change the type of Government we get .Ireland has a very young population so in reality a change could take place as the older entrenched voters will be less and less.They should change the way the rot starts as well ,at the County Council level and make County councils accountable first.

jmayo

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Banana republic or not ,it is up to the new generation of Irish people to change the type of Government we get .Ireland has a very young population so in reality a change could take place as the older entrenched voters will be less and less.They should change the way the rot starts as well ,at the County Council level and make County councils accountable first.

It was not the older entrenched voters that put Bertie back but the younger voters.
You will probably find that most of the younger voters that actually voted at the last election voted for Bertie et al.
It was interesting how many young voters from all walks of life, from professionals such as accountants/lawyers to tradesmen/apprentices such as electricians/plumbers voted for FF/Bertie.
They believe that he is responsible for the good times that they have experienced over the last 10 years.
After all they haven't had to emigrate like their parents or older siblings, they have cheap credit to buy their cars and go on multiple foreign hols/breaks every year.
Ok the one fly in the ointment was house prices, but hell they always go up so they can trade their shoebox in Navan or Gorey for something nearer home in a few years. (Note similar applies all over country)
Also lots of them work in construction industry and times have never been better.
Most of them have never experienced the health system so they don't give a rats ar** about it or the ones stuck on trolleys.

They were afraid to vote for non FF, jeeze they might rock the boat.

Fratton Fred

Bertie convinced me last night. Apparantly he deserves his pay rise because other european leaders have holiday homes and yachts, but he doesn't.

I'm so glad he cleared it up for me.:D

walshb

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Bertie convinced me last night. Apparantly he deserves his pay rise because other european leaders have holiday homes and yachts, but he doesn't.

I'm so glad he cleared it up for me.:D

I read that earlier. Absolute classic
They really do have no shame whatsoever....

Mr.Micro

I agree with you JMAYO 100% . Its the money they were thinking but the voters are young enough to learn that they can change .People expect more now and are very vocal eg HSE shambles,Bertie s pay rise etc, so Politicians can expect more of the same in future.

You could not script what Bertie comes out with . Can he be so genuinely crass or is he just so drunk on power and his arrogance.Yacht .What would a man of the people want with a yacht in Drumcondra. Do they have a pond there where he could play with it.

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Bertie convinced me last night. Apparantly he deserves his pay rise because other european leaders have holiday homes and yachts, but he doesn't.

I'm so glad he cleared it up for me.:D

It's not an entirely irrelevant point. If other European leaders have fully staffed official residences, then that in some way closes the pay gap. Non-monetary benefits should in some way be taken into account.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not an entirely irrelevant point. If other European leaders have fully staffed official residences, then that in some way closes the pay gap. Non-monetary benefits should in some way be taken into account.

If we were to accept Bertie's justification then I say the whole damn lot of them are disgustingly overpaid.....Bush, Brown, etc etc etc....

The bottom line is that there is NO justification available, no matter what Ahern says, he IMO canot justify this rise........

purple'n'gold

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not an entirely irrelevant point. If other European leaders have fully staffed official residences, then that in some way closes the pay gap. Non-monetary benefits should in some way be taken into account.

Other European leaders are in charge of serious countries where they have proper health care and public transport. Whereas benchmarking Bertie is in charge of “the last great bastion of bullsh1t and codswallop west of the Urals”

Mr.Micro

purplengold wrote: »

Other European leaders are in charge of serious countries where they have proper health care and public transport. Whereas benchmarking Bertie is in charge of “the last great bastion of bullsh1t and codswallop west of the Urals”

Yes,if Bertie was making big decisions and wielded enormous power then he might justify his pay hike .We are still a small nation with a man with a big ego.

purplengold

purplengold wrote: »

Other European leaders are in charge of serious countries where they have proper health care and public transport. Whereas benchmarking Bertie is in charge of “the last great bastion of bullsh1t and codswallop west of the Urals”

There is a lot of bullsh1t and codswallop in other countries. Relative to much of Europe, Ireland has done relatively well over the last decade. For one thing it certainly leads the pack in moaning, cynical, armchair politicians.

I did not say that Bertie deserves a pay increase. My point was by looking at purely monetary compensation people overestimate his income in a broader sense.

Fratton Fred

you do realise that Gordon Brown will have to move out of Chequers when his term finishes, he doesn't get to keep it.

Bertie seems to think that he has the right to buy hi own little mansion in the country. He also seems to forget that a lot of his income seems to be made up of suitcases full of used pound notes, dollar, punts...........

Mr.Micro

One gets the impression from Bertie that he feels he is not appreciated enough obvious by his sulky little quips about yachts and mansions .

purple'n'gold

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a lot of bullsh1t and codswallop in other countries. Relative to much of Europe, Ireland has done relatively well over the last decade. For one thing it certainly leads the pack in moaning, cynical, armchair politicians.

I did not say that Bertie deserves a pay increase. My point was by looking at purely monetary compensation people overestimate his income in a broader sense.

Looking at purely monetary compensation this gobsh1te is getting about 200,000 per year too much.

Tristrame

Tristrame wrote: »

Because sovtek theres no need for it in what is supposed to be a civilised debating forum.
You can debate with decorum and without name calling.
You wouldn't see it on a prime time panel or on Questions and answers and it won't be tolerated here.
I will be giving infractions when I see that kind of carry on.

I'd also like to remind posters that discussion of moderation in threads is not allowed and if I see a poster at that again,they will get a 1 month ban.

Some posters aren't listening...

They mightn't be aware that 9 infractions automatically leads to a 1 week site ban.
Thats the whole site,not just this forum.