In the money - huge pay hikes for all!

marcsignal

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=dm_akheka9w&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b

http://thatsireland.com/


Treat yourselves to a nice 'Lie In' on Dec 7th

Liam Byrne

Interesting that that video doesn't include their biggest and most recent cock-ups, such as the bollox they made of privatising Aer Fungus and their shafting of Shannon....

marcsignal

marcsignal wrote: »

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=dm_akheka9w&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b

http://thatsireland.com/


Treat yourselves to a nice 'Lie In' on Dec 7th

I find it ironic that most of the stuff in that youtube was before the election... Ergo it's as much an example of the voters laughing at the video maker as FF laughing at the voters.
It was a pretty píss poor video too content and originality wise-any basic bebo slide show is better.

Mr.Micro

The bottom line is the FF crowd with PD s and the others did not have a clue before the election,they can hardly be expected to have a clue now . It was all fine when there was money to burn and thats what kept people quiet. Now things are a bit tight and the Red C poll today suggests that 60% of voters felt conned by FF in its portrayal of the economy. In the words of Clinton to Bush Sr. "its the economy stupid" ,thats what gets the votes everything else will always be secondary . This Government has no reply ,no talent ,without a vibrant economy there is nothing there just ineptness and bluster .

DublinWriter

sovtek wrote: »

I for one am getting in on this.

+1, we should all put this in our sigs to spread the word.

moe_sizlak

marc colemans artilce on the back page of the sindo today in which he blasts the ESB strike proposals is essential reading for the average private sector worker as is the full page article on public servant pay

marcsignal

Tristrame wrote: »

whinge whinge whingyness, a quality I hate in people.thanks.

Tristrame wrote: »

It was a pretty píss poor video too content and originality wise-any basic bebo slide show is better.

:rolleyes:

marcsignal,Methinks you need to revisit your definition of whinge versus a valid assessment of the quality and content of a video.
I see you didn't comment at all on my noting that most of the "50 ways" mentioned were actually things that happened before the last election-thus rendering the modus operandi of the video stupid.

marcsignal

Tristrame wrote: »

marcsignal,Methinks you need to revisit your definition of whinge versus a valid assessment of the quality and content of a video.

and methinks you should address your assesment to the producer, you'll find a comments section under the video on the youtube page

marcsignal

marcsignal wrote: »

and methinks you should address your assesment to the producer, you'll find a comments section under the video on the youtube page

I might.
But then again I might not.

What I will do though is discuss the topic of this thread and if you are posting links,I'll post with regard to them.
If you don't want to discuss my post well then that speaks for itself.

marcsignal

Tristrame wrote: »

I might.
But then again I might not.

cool, whatever you're comfortable with

Tristrame wrote: »

What I will do though is discuss the topic of this thread and if you are posting links,I'll post with regard to them.
If you don't want to discuss my post well then that speaks for itself.

Another time maybe, It's been a very long weekend here, drinking cheaper Guinness than in Dublin....now that's irony

marcsignal

Ok, firstly, apologies for the bump, however better now than to continue last night. Alcohol and politics on boards are not good bedfellows.

Tristrame, firstly, I’m not a politician, I also didn’t want to come over as devils advocate last night, but the content of the posted video is largely irrelevant, except perhaps, the fact that outdated conted content was being used by thatsireland.com to promote the latest event on Dec 7th shows that despite the widespread critisism of the current FF administration, opposition seems to be badly organised, and disjointed. Other than that it simply lists the corrupt and selfish disregard FF have for the Irish People. Just because it’s old news, dosen’t make it acceptable.

Personally, I have a lack of sympathy for Irish voters, because they voted FF back in. As for the Greens, I will never even consider voting Green again in Ireland, no matter what Climate Change calamity befalls us. They had an opportunity to cause FF real problems by not doing business with them, and chose to go into coalition with them instead. (Come back lads, you forgot your Spine)

All that aside, I find the arrogance of FF incredible, the Brown Envelope Culture, the Beverly Cooper Flynn episode, and her personal arrogance, the ‘dig outs’ and the selective amnesia of Bertie, the dreadful state of our Health Service, with people who worked all their lives ending their days dying in corridors on Hospital Trollies (unless your surname is ‘Harney’), an Organised Crime problem, and complete disregard for the law thats bordering on Anarchy, the Claim Culture, the planning fiasco, outrageous House Prices, one story after another of jobs, and contracts for the boys, E Voting machines....etc etc. Finally to give himself a pay rise that puts him above Angela Merkel, Gordon Brown, and Bush, is the cream on the cake. To squander the prosperity we have had since the late 90’s, and then to advise people to now tighten their belts, is Bertie’s Final and cruelest Insult IMO.

I can’t understand why the Irish people are allowing themselves to be treated the way they are. IMO the people are being taken for fools, and it’s a shame that the Irish are not more like the French, and show their apparent frustration by taking to the streets. Maybe Digout Day on Dec 7th will be the start of something bigger, if it is a success. I hope it works, and binds the opposition together, and finally rids Ireland of these Vultures.
I personally consider it worth flying home, just to take part.

A Laymans rant over

Mr.Micro

marcsignal wrote: »

Ok, firstly, apologies for the bump, however better now than to continue last night. Alcohol and politics on boards are not good bedfellows.
Personally, I have a lack of sympathy for Irish voters, because they voted FF back in. As for the Greens, I will never even consider voting Green again in Ireland, no matter what Climate Change calamity befalls us. They had an opportunity to cause FF real problems by not doing business with them, and chose to go into coalition with them instead. (Come back lads, you forgot your Spine) QUOTE

The Greens have taken their shot ,maybe the only one they will ever get ,at being in Government .They are not going to risk that now by ousting Ahern .I fear there are very few principled politicians once in power who would do that . Party first ,as we know the people and country last.Their principles are lost at the gates of the Dail.

marcsignal

marcsignal wrote: »

Tristran, firstly, I’m not a politician, I also didn’t want to come over as devils advocate last night, but the content of the posted video is largely irrelevant, except perhaps, the fact that outdated conted content was being used by thatsireland.com to promote the latest event on Dec 7th shows that despite the widespread critisism of the current FF administration, opposition seems to be badly organised, and disjointed. Other than that it simply lists the corrupt and selfish disregard FF have for the Irish People. Just because it’s old news, dosen’t make it acceptable.

Except for the fact that an awfull lot of people voted for FF in the knowledge of a lot of what was in that video.
The video's premise was to say FF are laughing at the voters-yet the things shown in the video were all things before the last vote so one doesn't support the other.
That was the point I made.

Personally, I have a lack of sympathy for Irish voters, because they voted FF back in.

Would you prefer dictatorship? because thats the only real alternative to the implication of ignoring the majority of voters choices.

As for the Greens, I will never even consider voting Green again in Ireland, no matter what Climate Change calamity befalls us. They had an opportunity to cause FF real problems by not doing business with them, and chose to go into coalition with them instead. (Come back lads, you forgot your Spine)

Lol-you do realise that they are actually rising in the polls-the weekend one had them up two points.

All that aside, I find the arrogance of FF incredible, the Brown Envelope Culture, the Beverly Cooper Flynn episode,

she got re elected...

and her personal arrogance, the ‘dig outs’ and the selective amnesia of Bertie,

I don't particularally find Bev attractive either but the locals like her.

the dreadful state of our Health Service, with people who worked all their lives ending their days dying in corridors on Hospital Trollies

Yeah but you see,if you start messing with it to make it more effecient, you'll get a strike-damned if you do and damned if you don't

(unless your surname is ‘Harney’)

What are you refering to? Mary Harneys mother? It's conceivable that doctors/managers may have acted on that knowing who she was but they deny it.You'll have to prove it.

an Organised Crime problem, and complete disregard for the law thats bordering on Anarchy,

Whilst thats not nice,they're mainly killing each other these days-natural selection at work.

the Claim Culture,

huh?

the planning fiasco,

All councillors are a part in that.

outrageous House Prices,

Demand and supply and all that and of course the old addage "fools and their money are easily parted".

one story after another of jobs, and contracts for the boys,

huh?

E Voting machines....etc etc.

I'd actually like to see e voting with some some kind of effecient verifiability-Doubt it will happen soon given the diaspro of politicians (including no doubt FF ones imho) prefering the paper trail and the ability to dispute pencil marks.

Finally to give himself a pay rise that puts him above Angela Merkel, Gordon Brown, and Bush, is the cream on the cake.

I Made my view known on that already,I don't agree with it.

To squander the prosperity we have had since the late 90’s,

Thats debateable...as to whether things have been squandered.Certainly there has been money wastage but percentage wise is it much bigger than in our leaner times ?

and then to advise people to now tighten their belts, is Bertie’s Final and cruelest Insult IMO.

Perhaps.
I'll agree though,it's unfathomable how he can have the moral ground to advocate belt tightening after his rise.

I can’t understand why the Irish people are allowing themselves to be treated the way they are. IMO the people are being taken for fools, and it’s a shame that the Irish are not more like the French, and show their apparent frustration by taking to the streets. Maybe Digout Day on Dec 7th will be the start of something bigger, if it is a success. I hope it works, and binds the opposition together, and finally rids Ireland of these Vultures.
I personally consider it worth flying home, just to take part.

A Laymans rant over

Wait you don't live here ?
You see many people just made a judgement call last june in the knowledge of what you are talking about.
FG got a good swing but they still ended up one T.D less than they had prior to their 2002 wipe out.
Labour ended up one less than prior to June.
It seems that when it comes to the crunch,despite feeling annoyed at certain things in the interim,the bulk of the Irish voters came twice to the conclusion that they didn't want to change governments much.

If you want my prediction,I'd imagine they probably will change it next time round (if that makes you feel better) but the opposition would want to perform better to make that a reality in my opinion.

marcsignal

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The Greens have taken their shot ,maybe the only one they will ever get ,at being in Government.They are not going to risk that now by ousting Ahern.

I dunno, with Climate change issues in the news more and more often, I think they might well be a viable coalition partner for any future Government. Whether you believe the Global Warming issue or not, I think people are becoming more aware of the benifits of a cleaner environment.
I'd like to have remembered the Greens for showing some principal, and pulling the rug from under Bertie, instead of going into Govt with him.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I fear there are very few principled politicians once in power who would do that . Party first ,as we know the people and country last.Their principles are lost at the gates of the Dail.

Can't argue with that, especially the case in Ireland, unfortunately.

is_that_so

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The Greens have taken their shot ,maybe the only one they will ever get ,at being in Government .They are not going to risk that now by ousting Ahern .I fear there are very few principled politicians once in power who would do that . Party first ,as we know the people and country last.Their principles are lost at the gates of the Dail.

I can understand the feeling. The Greens to date have been pragmatic and Gormley's insistence on the use of "I" rather than the usual cabinet "we" is probably part of that. He also has an uncanny ability to be true to his principles while worming his way out of a difficult situation. " Look I can't do anything about Ringsend or Tara but I'll make sure they never happen again."
That said whilst Green supporters must be lapping it up, I think the two Greens are indulging a bit of "smoke and daggers(sic)" themselves. Many of the things they are proposing had to happen anyway but they sound a lot better out of a Green mouth than a FF one. Ryan is pretty inept imo and is not a terribly good minister. But I applaud them for managing to be the government and yet not be completely tainted by it.

The poll was good for them and may indeed get them more seats providing there is little danger of FF being the government after the next election.

As for the opposition I think they are finding their feet slowly on all of this. Sniping around the edges of government at the other partners is a good move and they are getting better at choosing their targets. So far we only have a "vision" from Labour. Time will tell how that shapes up.

Mr.Micro

Yes IS THAT SO , true what you say .Ahern is cute enough in that the Greens have departments that suit them and they wanted ,like Harney in health ,all 3 have the potential to be explosive and if anything goes wrong it is the PD s or the Greens that take the flak not FF .Its a tightrope walk and I suspect that the Greens will have to swallow many of their ideals and principles before this Government is through.It will be interesting to see how long the Greens can stomach it ,unless they get the upperhand.

marcsignal

Again, I have to say that Politics is not my field, and not being very politically adept, I can only comment on what I observe.

Tristrame wrote: »

Except for the fact that an awfull lot of people voted for FF in the knowledge of a lot of what was in that video.
The video's premise was to say FF are laughing at the voters-yet the things shown in the video were all things before the last vote so one doesn't support the other.
That was the point I made.

true they were voted back in, but I think a lot of people were living their lives on so much borrowed money, it was a case of 'the Devil you know', rather than them believing FF were the only ones capable of managing the economy. Ironically a bit of me is happy they are still in power, so they will have to clean up the mess they created themselves. If they had lost the election, the new Government would have taken the fall for the current situation. I don't think anyone can deny that this has happened in the past.

Tristrame wrote: »

Would you prefer dictatorship? because thats the only real alternative to the implication of ignoring the majority of voters choices.

No a Dictatorship is never an alternative, but I think people were swayed to vote FF for the reasons stated above, fear.

Tristrame wrote: »

Lol-you do realise that they are actually rising in the polls-the weekend one had them up two points.

I guess thats true if you say so, but polls notoriously unreliable.

Tristrame wrote: »

she got re elected...I don't particularally find Bev attractive either but the locals like her. .

so it would seem, IMO it just goes to show that there are people in Ireland who would vote FF even if ‘Jack the Ripper’ was their local FF TD.

Tristrame wrote: »

Yeah but you see,if you start messing with it to make it more effecient, you'll get a strike-damned if you do and damned if you don't What are you refering to? Mary Harneys mother? It's conceivable that doctors/managers may have acted on that knowing who she was but they deny it.You'll have to prove it. .

FF have had a very long time in power to get it right, they should have something to show for that by now, IMO. As for Mary Harney’s Mother, well, its Very difficult, if not impossible to prove, but it was a very curions chain of events, considering.

Tristrame wrote: »

Whilst thats not nice,they're mainly killing each other these days-natural selection at work. .

No problem with scumbags eliminating each other, unfortunalely a lot of innocent people get caught in the crossfire. There are also other social/crime problems evident where ordinary good people suffer intimidation from low life roaming their estates, and the Gardai seem powerless to do anything about it. Is there any point bringing them to court, when theyre back out the next day ? Serious reform is needed, and more uniforms on the streets. The first duty of any Government, is the protection of it’s citizens, and in this respect FF have crashed and burned.

Tristrame wrote: »

huh? .

We (the Irish) have become obsessed with material gain, I think you may agree you are far more likely to be sued by someone in Ireland now over something than 10 years ago. OK, granted, not really politically relevant, but a negative side to our new wealth.

Tristrame wrote: »

huh? All councillors are a part in that. Demand and supply and all that and of course the old addage "fools and their money are easily parted"..

Can’t argue with that (councillors), but what about the pathetic amount of social/affordable housing being built ? There is a distinct ‘not in my back yard’ atitude form some influential lobbiests in certain parts of Dublin.

Tristrame wrote: »

I'd actually like to see e voting with some some kind of effecient verifiability-Doubt it will happen soon given the diaspro of politicians (including no doubt FF ones imho) prefering the paper trail and the ability to dispute pencil marks. "..

I’m totally against E-Voting machines, the reasons should be obvious, you can forget about privacy in the cyber age, you don’t have any, and that considered, IMO the system is too suceptible to rigging. Call me a luddite, I just don’t trust it.

Tristrame wrote: »

I Made my view known on that already,I don't agree with it. "..

Well at least we agree on something 

Tristrame wrote: »

Thats debateable...as to whether things have been squandered.Certainly there has been money wastage but percentage wise is it much bigger than in our leaner times ?Perhaps.

I think there are many examples of how money could have been better spent, granted I couldnt cronologically list them all, but the E-Voting machines, and the LUAS contract are just 2 I can think of for now. I HOPE that Ireland dosen’t have a similar fiasco over the new proposed Metro line, if we ever see it.

Tristrame wrote: »

I'll agree though,it's unfathomable how he can have the moral ground to advocate belt tightening after his rise.

Me either, but I can’t help feeling that he believes he and FF have blatantly and arrogantly insulted the intelligence of the Irish people so much up to now, and they have said and done little or nothing about it, he feels he can get away with it, and that it will just be forgoten by everyone in a few weeks, I hope not, enough is enough.

Tristrame wrote: »

Wait you don't live here ?

Nope, I left in despair last july, and tbh, despite the fact I can’t work in my professional field here, because my German is not good enough, at this point, it’s worth it, to go on a language course, and do a menial job in the meantime, because Germany is a nicer country to live in.
I’m not ashamed of being Irish, by any means, but feel Irish society has in many ways changed for the worse as a result of the Celtic Tiger. In short, I feel many of the dubious actions of our Leaders have filtered down to street level, corruption and greed have just become another facet of Irish Society at every level.

Eire 4Ever

The Government should work for free (as volunteers) for the next 2 to 3 years

marcsignal

See,this is what the forum is about marcsignal-engagement and discussion...rather than the roly eyed symbol (smiley added in the edit)

marcsignal wrote: »

I think there are many examples of how money could have been better spent, granted I couldnt cronologically list them all, but the E-Voting machines, and the LUAS contract are just 2 I can think of for now. I HOPE that Ireland dosen’t have a similar fiasco over the new proposed Metro line, if we ever see it.

They haven't produced the figures for the new metro precisely because they say they are trying to make it harder for the individuals who keep putting their price up to match what they thing the government would pay.
Thats a good step.

Me either, but I can’t help feeling that he believes he and FF have blatantly and arrogantly insulted the intelligence of the Irish people so much up to now, and they have said and done little or nothing about it, he feeels he can get away with it, and that it will just be forgoten by everyone in a few weeks, I hope not, enough is enough.

I'd agree but I don't see it being reversed or the replacements in 4 1/2 years taking a cut.

Nope, I left in despair last july, and tbh, despite the fact I can’t work in my professional field here, because my German is not good enough, at this point, it’s worth it, to go on a language course, and do a menial job in the meantime, because Germany is a nicer country to live in.
I’m not ashamed of being Irish, by any means, but feel Irish society has in many ways changed for the worse as a result of the Celtic Tiger.

Oh it has changed since the celtic tiger in my view too,it's become a lot more selfish.People expect everything now.
That said,I love it as a country,I wouldn't live anywhere else and I suspect the reverse migration by Irish that left (ie the opposite of you) thats been happening in recent years means a lot of people don't agree with you.
I'm quite happy to know that many friends of mine have returned and are doing well here.

In short, I feel many of the dubious actions of our Leaders have filtered down to street level, corruption and greed have just become another facet of Irish Society at every level.

To each their own thoughts I suppose.

marcsignal

Tristrame wrote: »

See,this is what the forum is about marcsignal-engagement and discussion...rather than the roly eyed symbol (smiley added in the edit)

True, but chill Tristrame, I was piddly drunk

Ok, slightly off topic, but Don't get me wrong, I love my country too, but only as a visitor, for the moment, and even then it's too expensive for a long trip, compared to what I could do here for the same money.
Thats the great thing about the Euro, you can see things like that straight away. Granted Germany is far from 'Nirvana' fuel is more expensive for a start, but it just seems to be better value for money in so many other ways, when you consider what you have at your disposal here. Even when you take into account that wages, generally are lower than Ireland, I have found I can still have a much better quality of life here.

Yes Reverse migration has certainly happened, but many have found the cost of living on their return, shocking, compared to their host countries. Also, from what I have heard, many were illegals in the US who saw the writing on the wall, took their own age into account, and decided to go before they were pushed.