Driving: From Provisional License to Learning Permit (Merged)

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http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/Introduction%20of%20Learner%20Permit%20and%20Changes%20to%20the%20Driver%20Licensing%20System%20final%20confirmed.doc









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mike65

This'll be fun.

Mike.

Karoma

Well, about ****ing time:

Safer roads (And some better parking, hopefully).
It will also slightly reduce the number of fat kids (Or, at least, encourage car pooling).

win. win.


Here's hoping it's actually enforced.



ED: "A person who is a first time holder of a learner permit (provisional licence) cannot take a driving test for a six month period after the commencement date of the permit (provisional licence)." - Like there's any fear of them doing it sooner.

r3nu4l

• The holder of category B (Car) learner permit (provisional licence) must be accompanied by and under the supervision of a qualified person at all times. This change removes an exemption that, up to now, allowed a person on a second provisional licence to drive unaccompanied. To drive unaccompanied will be a penal offence and the person will be subject to prosecution.

Q: When does this new rule come into effect?

A: This is coming into effect as and from 30 October 2007.


Q: I am currently on a second (provisional licence) learner permit for driving a car, and was not required to be accompanied heretofore with this (provisional licence) learner permit. Must I now be accompanied?

A: Yes, you must be accompanied at all times when driving with a (provisional licence) learner permit for a car.

W00t! Although as most of our traffic laws go unenforced in this country it'll only be the odd learner that'll be prosecuted on this anyway

EDIT: Oh and I've bikoed this post for moving to the 'Learning to drive' forum, not because I want to see it moved just because I wanted to use the new verb 'biko', which now replaces the verb 'report'.

Mossy Monk

I don't see this going down too well.

Karoma

It fits Motors and sub-fora and 'Learning to drive' and Motorbikes and probably more... AH is fine. I'll gladly put a copy in Learning to Driver or anywhere the mod requests.

Mossy Monk wrote:

I don't see this going down too well.

Aye. They'll have to do something about the testing Q's. Otherwise, **** 'em. The system works well for other countries. Only some of them go one step further and make it better - the qualified driver has to be an instructor - this has the benefit of reducing the number of bad habits carried over and the conditions are safer.

rubadub

And yet there is still a massive amount of people out there with full licences who never sat a test- crazy stuff. Driving crap for years on end and then will use this "experience" as an excuse why they should not have to sit a test! That is what gets me most- people who never sat a test moaning about provo drivers.

I know old women of 80+ who can barely walk yet can drive HGVs since they just ticked a box back in the day.

Dragan

Hmmmm, i've never nearly been run over by a person with L plates.


I've nearly been run over by Fat ***** or the Idiot Wives in X5's a lot though.

Orange69

Its not exactly a huge change...

And we all know it wont be enforced...

And it doesn't fix the problem of people driving away from a failed driving test..

More hogwash from the current government!

shrapnel222

this is going to be hillarious.

delly

All they had to say in one line was that they were removing the rule whereby somebody on a second provisional licence didn't need a fully licenced driver with them.

L1011

Have we ever had a law with retrospective provisions like this before? Consideirng none of these were in force when any existing L-drivers applied for their licence, its extremely dodgy bringing it in now.

Gonna **** up my employers no end - half the support team are on provisional licences, most of them aren't able to get here via public transport.

TwoShedsJackson

Orange69 wrote: »

Its not exactly a huge change...

And we all know it wont be enforced...

And it doesn't fix the problem of people driving away from a failed driving test..

More hogwash from the current government!

How do ya know that?

To enforce it all the Gardai have to do is pull over anyone they see with L plates up and on their own in the vehicle. Done and done.

Also test-takers will now be required to be accompanied to and from (should they fail) their test.

kodute

Dragan wrote: »

Hmmmm, i've never nearly been run over by a person with L plates.


I've nearly been run over by Fat ***** or the Idiot Wives in X5's a lot though.

The next logical step for the RSA is to force all existing full license holders to sit a retest at some fixed interval.

prendy

i think its a good step forward...it was crazy that you could fail your test then get in a car and drive home.
i also think they should make people take the test every 10 years after you turn 50...some shocking older drivers.
snap kodute

l3LoWnA

Wow! Great news!

Now all they have to do in enforce it properly! :rolleyes:

I drove a car badly in need of a NCT around for 3 years and all the check-points etc I passed over the years, they never once asked about it! That's a pretty new thing, as will this be, so let's just see how strongly it's enforced!

ciaran76

Just dont put up L plates. Easy. Take the chance. Not saying its right but most people will do this.

cance

this is a bit OTT no?

piss flaps.:(

biko

r3nu4l wrote: »

EDIT: Oh and I've bikoed this post for moving to the 'Learning to drive' forum, not because I want to see it moved just because I wanted to use the new verb 'biko', which now replaces the verb 'report'.

I think they should just bypass L and teach people to drive properly in the first place so they get a full license, like in Germany and Scandinavia.

Karoma

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

To enforce it all the Gardai have to do is pull over anyone they see with L plates up and on their own in the vehicle. Done and done.

All they need do to make a quota is camp outside schools. There. I said it.

kodute wrote: »

The next logical step for the RSA is to force all existing full license holders to sit a retest at some fixed interval.

Logic? hah. That won't happen. The demographic that have the full licenses when they shouldn't vote more than the ones with L-plates. The waiting time for to be tested is already silly - this would just add to the nightmare. I do agree though, everyone should be re-tested at about age 50-60, at least. It's about time they took the blind, old midgets driving 20kph on a motorway off the road. There; another demographic insulted - my work here is done.

Dragan

kodute wrote: »

The next logical step for the RSA is to force all existing full license holders to sit a retest at some fixed interval.

Pretty much exactly what i was hinting at! Good man.

Mossy Monk

Madness that they are giving four days notice for all of this.

hopalong85

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

How do ya know that?

To enforce it all the Gardai have to do is pull over anyone they see with L plates up and on their own in the vehicle. Done and done.

Also test-takers will now be required to be accompanied to and from (should they fail) their test.

I swear if loads of people start getting done for this l drivers won't take their l plates down:rolleyes:;)

Orange69

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

How do ya know that?

Because this is Ireland.

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

To enforce it all the Gardai have to do is pull over anyone they see with L plates up and on their own in the vehicle. Done and done.

People will just take down their L plates.

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Also test-takers will now be required to be accompanied to and from (should they fail) their test.

I drove to my test on my own.. and had i failed i would have driven home on my own.. The tester wont follow you out to the car..

l3LoWnA

delly wrote: »

All they had to say in one line was that they were removing the rule whereby somebody on a second provisional licence didn't need a fully licenced driver with them.

Exactly!! I, and probably the rest of ye, drove around on my first provisional with no qualified drivers on board.....it was illegal.....I never got grief about it from any law-enforcer so nothing will change.

Now, if they had said they were sending 5000 new gardai around the country in special new traffic units, I'd believe it's a great step forward, but it's only the law that has changed (ever so slightly!) not the enforcing of the law!

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Thank christ i just passed my driving test there last month! Well assuming all of this is actually going to be enforced, which it probably won't.

L31mr0d

In fairness, we know this is going to change nothing. Of the people I know who drive unaccompanied with a provisional, they are mostly on their 3rd or 4th provisional anyway so have been driving illegally anyway.

Also, afaik, people can still take a test, fail it, then drive themselves home, as long as they are accompanied. This change doesn't mean a person will have their provisional licence removed should they fail.

TerrorFirmer

If you were involved in an accident then, and it was discovered you were

a) on a provo with no l plates up and
b) alone in the car

Would you not be in an world of crap?

Karoma

hopalong85 wrote: »

I swear if loads of people start getting done for this l drivers won't take their l plates down:rolleyes:;)

It's an offence to be caught without a standardised L-plate. If they get pulled over or crash, they're shafted.

L31mr0d wrote:

In fairness, we know this is going to change nothing.

It's a step in the right direction. It'll be easier to enforce than pulling over random L-platers and checking what license they have - all that's required is a peek in the window.

Wishbone Ash

rubadub wrote: »

I know old women of 80+ who can barely walk yet can drive HGVs since they just ticked a box back in the day.

When a truck or bus licence comes up for renewal, a new one won't be issued without a medical report. Just ticking the box in the pre 1964 days doesn't mean that the person still has the truck categories. It's largely a myth!

hopalong85

Karoma wrote: »

It's an offence to be caught without a standardised L-plate. If they get pulled over or crash, they're shafted.

Are they really?! This would go completely against my own experience must say. Anytime i've been stopped without l plates at a tax checkpoint or whatever the guard has merely told me to buy some and put them up.;)

TwoShedsJackson

Orange69 wrote: »

Because this is Ireland.

yeah grand attitude there, sure this is Ireland boyo, nothing ever changes. They're not just doing this for a laugh you know..

People will just take down their L plates.

It's going to be a penal offence to do this, I know some people will do it anyway, but how many people are prepared to risk jail or a huge fine??

I drove to my test on my own.. and had i failed i would have driven home on my own.. The tester wont follow you out to the car..

OK maybe you're not getting this 'these are the changes they're making very soon' bit? I know exactly how it is, I learned to drive in the last year myself..

Are they really?! This would go completely against my own experience must say. Anytime i've been stopped without l plates at a tax checkpoint or whatever the guard has merely told me to buy some and put them up

Someone else having trouble with distinguishing between the past and the future..

togster

About time. Hope they enforce it. Would love to see some scobes pulled for it in their pimped up puntos.

cson

Not much time for the change to settle in, is there? Sunday morning and thats that. It's gonna be a major deal for a friend of mine who drives to College every week, he had the second provisional but now that thats fecked out the window he's in a spot of bother...

jester77

Are they bringing in the 6 penalty points and you are off the road rule for provisional and newly acquired full license drivers?

ScumLord

Jayyz I'm glad I got my licence back in the day there's no way I'd pass the test these days.

Cuddlesworth

I don't really care, if they can get the testing queue down to a week I could understand it. But as it stands that means that we have to wait 6 months+ just to get the chance of a license.

Wertz

Looks like I can take my L plates down prematurely, so.
No point in attracting attention.
On the waiting list this 6 months, not so much as a word about when it might be.
F*ck them....if the cops bother to enforce it this time I'll see them in court or whatever. There is no-one I have to accompany me, need to drive to work to pay bills, and maybe to pay court fines. Putting the cart before the horse as usual on this sh*thole island....a big two fingers to the RSA. Go and petition to have minor roads fixed where people are getting killed, go do something about foreign cars on our roads driven under foreign license.
BTW just on the subject of the RSA, are they still bank rolling uncle gaybo to highlight the plight of the safe motorist? Yeah, that's working out really well...

skywalker

biko wrote: »

I think they should just bypass L and teach people to drive properly in the first place so they get a full license, like in Germany and Scandinavia.

Definitely agree, there should be a driving class in secondary school.

L1011

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

It's going to be a penal offence to do this, I know some people will do it anyway, but how many people are prepared to risk jail or a huge fine??

Only one judge in the country (Patten in Cork) would jail you for this and this alone - you'd have to have done something else in the same offence. Or be on probation.

hopalong85

Wertz wrote: »

Looks like I can take my L plates down prematurely, so.
No point in attracting attention.
On the waiting list this 6 months, not so much as a word about when it might be.
F*ck them....if the cops bother to enforce it this time I'll see them in court or whatever. There is no-one I have to accompany me, need to drive to work to pay bills, and maybe to pay court fines. Putting the cart before the horse as usual on this sh*thole island....a big two fingers to the RSA. Go and petition to have minor roads fixed where people are getting killed, go do something about foreign cars on our roads driven under foreign license.
BTW just on the subject of the RSA, are they still bank rolling uncle gaybo to highlight the plight of the safe motorist? Yeah, that's working out really well...

Completely agree man. I applied for the test ages ago and also haven't heard a thing with regard to a date. Don't really see why l drivers should be held responsible for the incompetence of our system.

cson

+1 to some of what Wertz said. I'm on the waiting list for 3 months now, not as long as Wertz but all the same the speed they're introducing this is crazy. With waiting lists of 6+ months what do they expect to happen?

cornbb

This is just a tightening up of the existing rules. I'd be surprised to see them rigidly enforced. There will be no real improvement in the quality of the drivers in our roads until there is mandatory drivers' education from a young age, disqualification from driving after a number of failed tests (lets face it, if you fail your test more than 3-4 times you are probably not fit to drive) and proper enforcement of existing rules (more tailgaters pulled over, eradication of drink driving etc).

Edit: ok I just read that they are making professional tuition compulsory, thats a step in the right direction.

ScumLord

cson wrote: »

+1 to some of what Wertz said. I'm on the waiting list for 3 months now, not as long as Wertz but all the same the speed they're introducing this is crazy. With waiting lists of 6+ months what do they expect to happen?

I was waiting a year for my test. It took so long I had to get another provisional licence.

Orange69

Wertz wrote: »

Putting the cart before the horse as usual on this sh*thole island....a big two fingers to the RSA.

Thats the problem right there.. There is no real public transport outside Dublin so people rely 100% on their cars..

People will just take down the L plates and take their chances out of necessity..

Zapp Brannigan

Thats aload of crap. So anytime I want to drive now (I'm on my 2nd provisional, applied for the test) I've to get the mother to accompany me. It's farcical, how is someone supposed to learn how to drive this way?

shrapnel222

i imagine the insurance companies are going to be pissed as well. The amount of revenue they were getting from insuring drivers on provisionals must be pretty good. So now, you'll find provisional drivers not being insured (apart from as an additional driver in your parents car which is void if not accompanied) , and i think that'll scare a few of them off the road. Driving without L plates is one thing, but driving uninsured is quite another, and only a complete idiot would do that.

Colonel Sanders

Orange69 wrote: »

Its not exactly a huge change...

And we all know it wont be enforced...

And it doesn't fix the problem of people driving away from a failed driving test..

More hogwash from the current government!

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

In the run up to the election, stamp duty was an issue. FF caved in but introduced a scheme that affected very few 1st time buyers.

Unless this is enforced (not likely IMO) nothing will change. Have any extra resources been announced to actually Police this new legislation?

togster

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Thats aload of crap. So anytime I want to drive now (I'm on my 2nd provisional, applied for the test) I've to get the mother to accompany me. It's farcical, how is someone supposed to learn how to drive this way?

Eh with you mother. Like most places in europe. In Sweden your parents have to be appointed to drive with you or some other nominee with a full test and only them. Look get over it. You cant have people driving around with no liscence. Its ridiculous. Enough with the excuses already. Buy a bike tbh.:D

thefinalstage

Go get tested in the isle of man. Pass it in a month. Fill out the D501 form and your done! Full irish drivers license.

DonJose

Wertz wrote: »

Looks like I can take my L plates down prematurely, so.
No point in attracting attention.
On the waiting list this 6 months, not so much as a word about when it might be.
F*ck them....if the cops bother to enforce it this time I'll see them in court or whatever. There is no-one I have to accompany me, need to drive to work to pay bills, and maybe to pay court fines. Putting the cart before the horse as usual on this sh*thole island....a big two fingers to the RSA. Go and petition to have minor roads fixed where people are getting killed, go do something about foreign cars on our roads driven under foreign license.
BTW just on the subject of the RSA, are they still bank rolling uncle gaybo to highlight the plight of the safe motorist? Yeah, that's working out really well...

No point bitching about it now, how long have you had to sit a test?