Driving: From Provisional License to Learning Permit (Merged)

Jumpy

This one is dedicated to all those on their second provisionals out there....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hPnZUMBwA



Thank you, Im here all week.

Ickle Magoo

Calina wrote: »

as to your second point, I'd like to point out that I did it using driving lessons but hell I'm starting to wonder if I'm unique. I didn't have a car or insurance or the opportunity to drive around the country all on my lonesome 8 years ago. How in Christ's name could I have possibly passed my driving test?

I was the same, never drove outside of a dual control car with an instructor until I passed my test - and I had 1 lesson a week! I believe that's pretty much the norm everywhere bar here, so while it's going to be a pain in the neck for those used to the current system (if it can even be classed as such - more like handing everyone of driving age the right to drive & no test whatsoever) but like everywhere else Ireland will adapt & those learning to drive in the future will just have to learn to drive before they get a car & start driving about the roads...and isn't that the way it should be?!

My DH started learning to drive (with an instructor) in May, he has his test coming up - not sure how anyone should be still driving around on their provisional after X yrs, they should have had ample opportunity to pass their test...and a 50% pass rate can hardly be blamed on anything but the quality of driving. I would hate to have tried for my test after years of driving about, you fall into habits that testers wouldn't necessarily approve of & I think it would be harder to pass. It works in your own best interest to pass your test as soon as you possibly can (not the 12yrs that my neighbour has been driving around on L plates!). :eek:

wil

Deleted User wrote: »

I can see a whole new cottage industry starting up here.


"Professional passingers" people who get paid just to accompany a learner driver while they drive from A to B.

I remember when I passed my test in 197* (god I feel old:() As I was one of the first in my group of friends to pass, I suddenly became very popular, I got taken to cinemas, pubs, clubs anywhere my learner mates wanted to go... they paid for me to get in as well;).

In those days, there was no restriction on how many years the experienced driver needed, I passed on one day the next I was the passinger with one of my learner mates.
Useless at it! I tell him not to tailgate, he ignores me car in front slows down my "pupil" drives into the back of it!:mad:

All came to an end when they passed.

so many changes since 197* but at least we kept the farcical provisional licence system till now.
And by sounds of it you treated learning to drive a lot more seriously then than most do today.

muppetkiller

Ok guys sorry for the question but there's too many pages here to search if it's been asked before...
From the rsa site
Q: My first provisional licence is about to expire and I will be renewing it after the implementation date for the introduction of the learner permit; will the learner permit I receive be considered a first time learner permit?

A: No, as you already held a provisional licence you are not considered to be a first time learner permit holder.

but then they state
• A person whose provisional licence has now lapsed but who held a provisional licence at any time in the five year period prior to 30 October 2007 can renew their licence by getting a learner permit before the five year limit expires. The learner permit in that case will not be considered a first time learner permit. While driving this person must be accompanied by a person who holds a full driving licence (no minimum period necessary) in the category.

So what does that mean ? If I am applying now for my second licence do I have to have someone in the car with me at all times ? Or am I covered by the updated ruling ?
• A person while holding a second learner permit or second provisional licence can drive unaccompanied in the period up to 30 June 2008.

Thanks

Saint_Mel

I'm in a similar position. My 1st provisional expires in a few weeks time.
I rang to get the renewal forms before the announcement but as yet
nothing has arrived.

Got a phone call at 8.30am Saturday from the RSA to say a date has been
set for my test. The date is 1 week after my provisional expires.

Just rang the RSA to see what happens in this situation and was told that
I should renew my licence but I will receive a "2nd Permit" which will have
all the same entitlements as the old 2nd Provisional

gurramok

More than 2,000 brought to court so far this year driving unaccompanied
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhmheymheygb/

About 4,000 last year also.

Not enough caught breaking the law. Hopefully from today they'll crack down on non-2nd's prov holders to make the roads safer for all of us.

Mossy Monk

Hopefully they will crack down on the arseholes who were overtaking at corners this morning. Continous white lines mean nothing to some dickheads.

Orange69

Do the new learner permits look the same as the provisional licenses?

Has anyone seen a picture of one yet?

TwoShedsJackson

gurramok wrote: »

More than 2,000 brought to court so far this year driving unaccompanied
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhmheymheygb/

About 4,000 last year also.

Not enough caught breaking the law. Hopefully from today they'll crack down on non-2nd's prov holders to make the roads safer for all of us.

That genuinely surprises me, I'd never heard of a single person being done for this. What is the current penalty for driving unaccompanied?

watna

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Hopefully they will crack down on the arseholes who were overtaking at corners this morning. Continous white lines mean nothing to some dickheads.

i was just thinking a similar thing. i was up in Donegal for the bank holiday weekend. The amount of cars speeding down tiny country roads, tailgating us and overtaking on bends at the bottom of hills was phenomenal. No wonder there's such carnage on the roads. i consider myself a pretty agressive driver, but i realised over the weekend that that's just in traffic jams/cities etc. The impatience of some people in the country and the risks they took were shocking. Ever time we came round a corner I was expecting a car to be overtaking and come flying at us. Thank god my other have was driving is all I can say. When they have gardai to patrol the country roads, I'll be impressed not when they say they're clamping down on provisional drivers, who in my experience seemed safer than those arseholes driving around the backroads of Donegal.

star-pants

Have to agree -- was in Donegal a few months ago myself - those tiny back roads are like 80kph limit - and they go much faster on them - dangerously.

Some people are just idiot drivers - I'd an impatient git behind me on Nutley Lane - and he pulled into the turn right lane (to turn into Vincents) and pulled back in front of me - no idicators - and then turned left up ahead-again no idicators. As we were in traffic - there was JUST about room for him. Fool.

Q - has anyone seen any checkpoints etc today? for Prov drivers?

gurramok

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

That genuinely surprises me, I'd never heard of a single person being done for this. What is the current penalty for driving unaccompanied?

There was a crackdown in Bray, i remember starting a thread about it a few months ago.
The judge was throwing the book at the infringers.

wil

watna wrote: »

I'll be impressed not when they say they're clamping down on provisional drivers, who in my experience seemed safer than those arseholes driving around the backroads of Donegal.

What gives you the impression that these particular Ahs had ever passed a test. L plates are optional as far as many learners are concerned.

The same system that is farcical and lax regarding learners is likewise lax and farcical to most other dangers on our roads. One doesnt excuse or condone the other. Because learners drive without restriction, the whole rotten attitude permeates the whole system, these learners eventually become licenced but still retain the same wrong attitudes.

You dont have to go as far as Donegal to find these eejits.

This weekend in heavy fog within a few miles and same night on the Dublin Cork road, I passed the aftermath of a drunk truck driver, was homicidaly tailgated by a second artic driver from that point, then heard a few miles on a man was killed by a third truckdriver.
Perhaps they were all drinking in the same pub.:mad:

Im surprised there was only 7 people killed this w/e

I'm all for getting maniac truck drivers off the road, along with luckybag licence holders, drunk drivers and learners who are not learning.

ChewieB

I learned to drive 'up North' in 1988, where most of these new changes were the norm.
Back then there were so many RUC patrols that nobody (in my area) would consider driving on an L plate without a qualified driver. I have no objection to the same type of rules applying here, however I do note:
1. There are more motorways here, from which L drivers are currently barred.
2. Because of the history of non-enforcement, a large number of L drivers here bought their own cars and rely on them to get to work/ bring children to school, etc. Back in the North, there appeared to be more school bus transport provided. Thus it was very important to give some opportunity for second provisional holders to have a chance of sitting their test before banning them from unaccompanied driving.
3. I drove like a complete **** for the first 10 years after my test. Looking back I realise what a fool I was, but I also don't know any easy way to stop young men speeding.

This, however, is a different issue from allowing people to drive alone after they have failed a test. The test simply shows that they can obey the rules and control the vehicle for less than half an hour while the examiner watches. No matter how badly licenced drivers behave, at least they showed they are capable of getting it right if they try. So... I support the idea of keeping the failed drivers under experienced supervision - but that it is only fair to give every current 2nd provisional a few months to prove (at least briefly) that they can safely drive alone.

On another note - have all these Ministerial announcements been in Statutory Instruments? I have not managed to find any related to last Thursday's initial rules, nor to the revised commencement date of the parts related to second licence holders.

Wertz

wil wrote: »

Far be it for me to agree with you Wertz (yes I took the piiss for you not being ready for a test you got with 5 days notice after sending them a nasty email) but you should have taken that test.
A quick read over the last few pages (as much as I could be bothered) indicate your readiness may be a bit higher than you think and more than some offering advice here.

Wont requote you (too many too long) but your bits about motorway merging, defensive driving, anticipation of hazards, and a really good idea, get drivers on a bike for a few days so they can have some appreciation of what it is like to have a car fly by within inches at 100kph or even 50 and how vulnerable you are.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've given further thought to whether in fact I should have accepted the date I was offered....and even after further thought, I'd still have declined.
Managed to get my car booked in to have it looked at; that won't be done till friday, so the car maybe had the potential to cut out or act up and I'd have failed the test.
As already mentioned, I have never done a "dry-run" test, I honestly don't know what's entailed in the test, barring what I've read or been told. Given that fact alone, my confidence would have been low and that would perhaps have affected my performance on the day.
Out of interest I rang the instructor I used last year and the earliest he could fit me in is thursday (perhaps I could have wangled an hour or two had I called him on friday, but I couldn't just assume that on a BH w/e, and it would have been foolish to accept the test date on the strength of that assumption)
When thinking about my test I now have to take into account the fact that if I fail on the day, there's no longer a "Get out of jail free" card to play in the form of a 2nd provisional....no, if I fail, I'm back to the end of the queue along with all that that entails.
There's people on this thread lambasting L-platers for being ill-prepared for their test....yet when I try and show some modicum of responsibility for getting myself prepared suddenly I'm "the mainstay of the problem on Irish roads" (may not be an accurate quote but that was the gist of what was said).
Those of you who think I'm foolish for not accepting the renewed date are entitled to their opinion, however in my opinion, I was ill-prepared to take the test with a view to passing it, so it would have been a waste of a place in the queue...

jor el

Not directing this at anyone in particular, but to all provisional license holders, why do people wait until near their test to get lessons? You should be getting lessons before you start driving your own car. Then, 6-12 months in that should be enough to get you to a level of competence where you should pass the test. When I started driving, I got several lessons a week for a few weeks, in an instructors dual-control car, before I bought my own. Then I applied for my test straight away and about 10 months later got the test and passed without any more lessons. I did try to get one or two before hand, but not too hard, and didn't bother in the end.

In short, if you have applied for a test then you should be getting lessons so as to be prepared for the test when it arrives.

I just think it should be compulsory for people to have maybe 10 hours with an instructor in a dual-control car before they can drive on their own with a provisional license (or permit now). I don't think this has been brought in with the new rules though.

I do have some sympathy for people who are going to be caught out by these new regulations. I have a cousin who drives to college every day, no other way possible as there is no bus. She's on first provisional. Another cousin is on her 2nd and her husband is on his 1st. They've both failed a test in the last few months and currently have no test applied for. I don't know what their all planning to do now. People have banked on the loopholes and lack of enforcement for too long and it has to change.

Also, Dempsey is an idiot who has made a complete mess of this. He made a bollox of the communications infrastructure in the last government and they award his incompetence by inflicting him on the dept of transport. We should all cry.

Mossy Monk

jor el wrote: »

but to all provisional license holders, why do people wait until near their test to get lessons?

I don't know about that. Not all people wait until the last minute to get lessons.

Wertz

I did ~8 hours with two different instructors before I even considered driving my own car.
At the end of those lessons, the guy told me I had the basics down, to get out there and practice and to see him before the test for some refresher/pre-test instruction.
I duly got out there, practiced and when I felt my confidence was up, I ventured out alone and applied for my test a while later. That was 6+ months back.
Taking lessons in the interim over the course of that 6+ months isn't practical, either financially, or from the point of view of actualy learning anything beneficial. I mean what are you honestly going to improve with an hour a week? Okay so do a few hours a week....at 30-40 quid an hour? For 6+ months?
If I could be 100% sure of when my test date was occuring, I could plan accordingly....the RSA's website figures cannot be construed as accurate and there is no other figure to go by...you have to wait until you're contacted and then use those 4-5 weeks to get yourself organised.
I could keep taking lessons indefinitely whilst waiting, only it'd cost me a lot of cash I don't have...

Hagar

Just a thought.

Is there any stipulation that the accompanying fully licensed driver must hold an Irish driving licence?
Would any EU licence be acceptable?
They are all equally valid aren't they?

Slutmonkey57b

kbannon wrote: »

Oh I see now.
I interpreted it a different way. I presumed he meant that we should accommodate those who failed the test and were deemed not good enough to drive alone. What he meant was that because people are ill-prepared for the test we should make extra allowances for the fact that 50% of applicants who complete the test aren't deemed competent and need to do the test more than once and therefore should be allowed to drive alone.
Oh wait!!?!?

The first-time 50% failure rate is entirely within normal experience in other countries. It's one of the few road statistics that doesn't make ireland look like an incompetant backwater. The 18-month wait, and the 30-year history of problems with the provisional system however, are entirely embarrassing and entirely the government's fault.

The man is making a simple common-sense point: Dempsey didn't do his sums and is lying about having the waiting lists down in time for the deadline. The waiting list, even with no new applications, and testing going on from early morning to late evening 6 days a week like it does in the outsourced centres, could not have been brought down in the time frame the lying minister said it would.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about the issue of provisional drivers being on the road, one thing is abundantly clear: No matter what legislation Dempsey introduced last week, it could not have been enforced because he has not fixed the problems in the testing system. Until he does that, you can rail all you like about people driving away from a failed test, driving on a second provisional unaccompanied, etc etc. He's trying to introduce a result (Provisional drivers off the road! Yay!) without thinking of a solution to the problem (how to get them out of their cars or onto a full license) first. The reason why he's doing that is that he's an incompetant lying moron of the lowest order.