Driving: From Provisional License to Learning Permit (Merged)

hopalong85

daveirl wrote: »

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I don't want your sympathy dude. I'm just stating that i for one won't be taking any notice of this new law. I'm sure this will be the case with most provisional licence holders who need their car tbh.;)

daveirl

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cornbb

hopalong85 wrote: »

I don't want your sympathy dude. I'm just stating that i for one won't be taking any notice of this new law. I'm sure this will be the case with most provisional licence holders who need their car tbh.;)

Well that'll certainly go down well with the law-abiding motorists on the road. If thats how L drivers are going to handle this situation then they won't get much support for their cause.

patbundy

DonJose wrote: »

I didn't. I took over 20 hours of driving lessons after I got my provisional license, didn't learn any bad habits and passed the test with flying colours. I have no sympathy for those who have taken advantage of the provisional driving license and the loopholes which allowed them to miss driving test and renew their provisional license.

YOU ONLY DROVE FOR 20 HOURS?

ciaran76

Finglas waiting time is 46 weeks I heard !

paconnors

daveirl wrote: »

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What are the goverment going to do let out all the murders,rapists,drug dealers,pedophiles, to make space for non fine paying. I dont think so.

Can you imagine the Headlines Rapist let out early so joe Bloggs who did'nt pay his fine for driving ucaccomined to be given a cell, Dont think so wouldnt go down with the public

lennox1

I can't believe the level of smugness being shown by full licence holders here.Not all learner drivers are morons who drive recklessly!As a mature(old)full licence holder myself,I am angry that all this is happening so suddenly without any thought for the consequences for young drivers who were driving perfectly legally and carefully on a 2nd provisional,while waiting for the test.
We are told that they are doing this as the road carnage is caused by 18-25 year old males.Why not say that,1.From Tuesday,upwards of,e.g.30year olds only can apply for a learners permit,no one under that age is allowed to learn.
2.Anyone holding the old 2nd provisional would have their test within a month but could still drive unaccompanied til then,and those on a 1st provisional would still have to be accompanied but would have their test within 2/3 months.
I'm sure that those smug drivers will not be too displeased if,on Tues morning in rushour,the Gardai delay them while enforcing the law.:rolleyes:

hopalong85

c0rk3r wrote: »

+1

Was just listening to some RSA rep saying it takes 8-12weeks to get a driving test (utter rubbish, more like 1 year).

I don't have a scanner. Nor do i care if you believe my "story". You trust the RSA if you want mate, fact is their information is completely innacurate.

Oh, this is for Dave btw!

red_bairn

Been like 2weeks on my own and now this! I was gonna travel to college by the car every day and the same with the girlfriend. Both of us only started in August with a months practise with instructors and with the auld man-basically another month. Not in a happy mood about it all but I understand that it is right.

Sister was a provisional license holder 2yrs back and she was heading with a friend to some part of north Dublin and she nearly knocked over Gay Byrne at a crossing!

daveirl

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echosound

daveirl wrote: »

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I don't get your last sentence - what employer is going to allow you to skip work for an entire month while you wait til you pass your test that you applied for, so you can get back to driving to and from work???

Before anyone says use public transport, I suspect a lot of people seem to have no idea that an entire country exists outside Dublin.
Where I come from originally, many areas have no access to public transport, as in the nearest bus stop could be more than 10 miles away, with a bus running perhaps once a day if you're lucky, and more likely than not, not even going anywhere near the area you work in. How do you get the 10+miles to the bustop to catch the bus that isn't going to the town you work in anyway? What if you can't manage to walk/cycle the 10 miles - Lots of people can't, not because they're lazy, but because they physically cannot due to various factors. How are rural dwellers supposed to get to work on public transport when it doesn't exist?

This doesn't affect me personally as I have a full licence and live in a town anyway now, but it will affect quite a lot of my family/friends.

And before anyone says "well they can get a fully licenced driver to accompany them" - very hard if all the fully licenced drivers are working in other areas to get them to give up their job to sit in a car with you, wait 8 hours for you to finish work and sit in with you on the way home.

Govt should offer solutions, like bringing down the waiting time for tests (an obvious one), before introducing measures that will make previously law-abiding citizens into lawbreaking ones on the 30th Oct simply by continuing to do what they have been sanctioned to do til now.

hopalong85

daveirl wrote: »

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Yes. The answer is basically that i was lazy and didn't get around to it. I'll be the first to admit that this is wrong but really that's beside the point here. It's completely wrong for these measures to be introduced with basically no notice given to the people that will be affected by them. That's just a fine example of incompetence and lack of consideration.

DarkJager

http://www.petitiononline.com/od404850/petition.html

daveirl

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nice1franko

I applied for a test on 12th Feb to Raheny, Dublin. No word from them yet. Guess the L plates coming off early!

Random

I believe the new system shows great potential. It's always been illegal to drive without a fully licensed driver with you, so those who've been doing it and "have to" do it - tough.

I do feel that possibly an exception could be made for those currently on a waiting list for their first test, but nobody else. Anyone else not on the list can't complain about the wait times as you've not bothered to apply.

Just my 2 cent.

DonJose

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

My (genuine) suggestion here would be to call your local TD's in the morning. Complain loudly.. and often.

I'll be phone in the morning congratulating them on something that should of been done years ago. DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT!!!

DarkJager

It must be very easy for qualified drivers to scoff at the outrage this decision is causing. Sure the learner drivers are the most dangerous drivers on the road right?? Wrong. Its the fully licensed arrogant pricks, who think that little pink slip is a green light to act however they want on the road. Overtaking 3 cars while there is oncoming traffic, ignoring traffic that has right of way on a roundabout by looking the other way, and not bothering to turn off the headlights when a car is approaching - these are the hallmarks of a good qualified driver??? Fcuk that, its easy to pass blame without looking at your own faults first.

paconnors

DonJose wrote: »

I'll be phone in the morning congratulating them on something that should of been done years ago. DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT!!!

Also congratulate him as well for getting a payrise:D, when the money could be put to more use, i.e. HSE

daveirl

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Saintly

Can't understand people who say they will drive regardless of the new law - your insurance will be null and void in the event of an accident. Also agree that it is a typically Irish solution - know lots of public health nurses, community physios, OTs, social workers who won't be able to drive from next week. What about all the gardai on provisional licences?!!! How will they get to work???

DonJose

paconnors wrote: »

Also congratulate him as well for getting a payrise:D, when the money could be put to more use, i.e. HSA

Will do I wasn't that stupid to vote this bunch in. Bet there are a lot of sick provisional drivers out there who did vote FF LOL

DarkJager

From a legal standpoint, and hopefully someone can answer this for me, if I was forced to quit my job (which is 40 miles from where I live) over this abrupt change to the law, I'm sure I would have some legal grounds to sue Noel Dempsey and the state for loss of earnings??

rameire

about time they got tough on learner drivers, at least in a few years time the driving will be alot better,
they should also do a refresher course for drivers who have a full license over 20 years.

patbundy

DonJose wrote: »

I'll be phone in the morning congratulating them on something that should of been done years ago. DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT!!!

wrong.driving is a right to be earned and since you chose to not to reply to the last post i,ve made.20 hours?

daveirl

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DonJose

DarkJager wrote: »

From a legal standpoint, and hopefully someone can answer this for me, if I was forced to quit my job (which is 40 miles from where I live) over this abrupt change to the law, I'm sure I would have some legal grounds to sue Noel Dempsey and the state for loss of earnings??

Could a drunk driver sue the state if his license is taken away? Could a driver with 12 penalty points or more sue the state if his license is taken away? Could a driver who doesn't have a valid driving license sue the state?

No to all the above. For the 15th f**king time DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT.

nesf

patbundy wrote: »

wrong.driving is a right to be earned and since you chose to not to reply to the last post i,ve made.20 hours?

You can't earn rights, they can only be taken away from you if you've been a bad boy or girl.

Random

DarkJager wrote: »

From a legal standpoint, and hopefully someone can answer this for me, if I was forced to quit my job (which is 40 miles from where I live) over this abrupt change to the law, I'm sure I would have some legal grounds to sue Noel Dempsey and the state for loss of earnings??

Assuming you're not taking the piss...

It's illegal now to do it. Now they're actually going to actively enforce it but the law hasn't changed in relation to what you're doing. You feel you should be compensated?

DarkJager

DonJose, you're beginning to sound like a broken record.

Being honest, I can't count how many checkpoints I have come across where the Gardai have checked my licence and waved me on. So in theory, if the Gardai are not enforcing it, how can it be law??

Random

DarkJager wrote: »

DonJose, you're beginning to sound like a broken record.

Being honest, I can't count how many checkpoints I have come across where the Gardai have checked my licence and waved me on. So in theory, if the Gardai are not enforcing it, how can it be law??

Because it says so in the big book?

Alkers

ciaranfo wrote: »

Assuming you're not taking the piss...

It's illegal now to do it. Now they're actually going to actively enforce it but the law hasn't changed in relation to what you're doing. You feel you should be compensated?

It is not illegal now to do if you're on your 2nd provisional.

Random

This is true Simona1986. I was aware of this but had forgot about it while writing my post.

Jump the guys on 2nd provisional to the top of the queue and get them through the system ASAP then

civdef

That's the key issue. People who are driving entirely legally today have just been told that from Monday they can't, with no phase in period, no warning and still very long test waiting lists.

Poor governance, plain and simple and it will alienate an awful lot of people. I suspect when the reality starts to hit a lot of TDs tomorrow afternoon when their secretaries start brining in phone messages, we may see a bit of a turnaround.

Dave!

It's legal to drive without accompanyment on your second provo licence (AFAIK). From 30th October that will no longer be the case.

Surely there's something in that (legally)...?

DarkJager

That means they will have to replace every single provisional licence that is missing the "999" code on it. Yeah right. I'm getting more and more enraged about this the more I think about it...

DonJose

patbundy wrote: »

wrong.driving is a right to be earned and since you chose to not to reply to the last post i,ve made.20 hours?

Over 20 hours with a driving instructor, he told me I was ready to sit the test, I sat the test and passed, what else do you need to know???

"right to be earned" = PRIVILEGE

PRIVILEGE
1. a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most: the privileges of the very rich.
2. a special right, immunity, or exemption granted to persons in authority or office to free them from certain obligations or liabilities: the privilege of a senator to speak in Congress without danger of a libel suit.
3. a grant to an individual, corporation, etc., of a special right or immunity, under certain conditions.
4. the principle or condition of enjoying special rights or immunities.
5. any of the rights common to all citizens under a modern constitutional government: We enjoy the privileges of a free people.
6. an advantage or source of pleasure granted to a person: It's my privilege to be here.
7. Stock Exchange. an option to buy or sell stock at a stipulated price for a limited period of time, including puts, calls, spreads, and straddles.
–verb (used with object) 8. to grant a privilege to.
9. to exempt (usually fol. by from).
10. to authorize or license (something otherwise forbidden).
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/PRIVILEGE

TwoShedsJackson

nice1franko wrote: »

I applied for a test on 12th Feb to Raheny, Dublin. No word from them yet. Guess the L plates coming off early!

Better make sure you don't have an accident so or you'll be proper fu<ked without insurance and committing at least two crimes in addition to that.

It's legal to drive without accompanyment on your second provo licence (AFAIK). From 30th October that will no longer be the case.

Surely there's something in that (legally)...?

Um yeah, something that was legal will no longer be legal..?

patbundy

true but 20 hours?.all i can say is bloody well done

patbundy

don just read you response again,thats good,nice one

DonJose

patbundy wrote: »

true but 20 hours?.all i can say is bloody well done

If the driving instructor said I needed 40 hours I would have taken 40 hours, same with 60 hours. A lot of provisional drivers might have more hours behind the wheel but they have nobody beside them pointing out their mistakes, constant mistakes become habits. Thankfully I didn't fall into this trap.

bug

That's me getting a Vespa then.

With L plates.

patbundy

true,i wasnt picking an argument with you.i like to see people getting on but this new law wasnt thought out properly.just think of the two main news items that was on the news tonight.it was rushed out to cover their payrises

Dave!

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Um yeah, something that was legal will no longer be legal..?

...and thus, people who currently drive to work will have to find an alternative means to commute. If one is not available, they will not be able to legally go.

What should they do, and is the state not liable in some way as a result?

That was my question (or rather, someone else's question which I elaborated on).

patbundy

maybe but legal matters on this site is a sore subject

rolion

Hi,guys

From the begining let me tell you i'm not irish and i have an European Driving licence since 1991 and a full irish since 1997.
The so nice bright future of my family is in big faking danger.
My wife drives every day from home to work and back.I can't help her as i have to drive myself at work.There is no option for bus as it will take 2 buses and 2 hours at least for each journey.She's a woman ,she's my wife and my kids mother,i cannot let her stay waiting for the bloody bus to come and do 2 hours journey that normal takes 20 minutes.

With this new faking law,from tuesday she has to stay home,as i cannot afford to put her in a so stressfull experience facing the Garda and 3rd Driving licence...blahhaaa

Consequences:
-she's gonna loose work,she has to go claim full doll.
-i'm taking in consideration cancelling my final year in College,as i cannot afford to pay €6k and ...suffer hungry home.
-my kids (3) has to manage themselves school - home and so on...
-my wife/family car will be sell off.
-my bleeding mortgage in 1-2 months will be stopped be paying and bank will receive a notification asking them to give me 6 months notice to sell the house and go ...mad around !

I can't describe how mad i am since i've heard this most stupid law ever (i can manage the TV licence for some unknown tv stations to me) enforced with a notice of 5 days.

I just cannot understand where this country goes:
-Intel and HP plan leaving Ireland
-big problems with infrastructure and with public services
-higher taxes from next budget
-higher pays increases for the "lads"
-the working class,making work at lower limit,hit by this stupid faking law.

I always "hated" the L drivers for not being able to drive corectly and being so slow on the road.But i'm not worried about a L driver most than a stupid count coming with a jeep and fake you with 2 fingers out the window...
Agreed that L are a liabilitie on the road,but make it that they got a chance to fix it.

If that happened in my home country,it will be a massacre...But here,everyone keeps quiet and thinks for himself ! I can't understand why the Irish Government made of Irish are working against the Irish !!! Strange...Why irish cannot go mad aginst something that i snot faking corect...

Wondering how many jobs will be left after tuesday !?
How many cars?How many loans,mortgages...
It's gonna hit the fan !It will fall over other social categories in a big time...
And whoever says that law is great and get rid of the L off the road...my wife is one of them and my family will be affected ! I dunno who you are,but you may be my neighbour,my friend,my workmate...Watch it...

You know what'll happens:Bertie will cover his pay increase by launching the bomb with the L drivers,then people will go mad about the L and ignoring the pay rise.Media ,as well.Then,the Guvernment will go back re L drivers,will give a term,let's say few month to get legal,every L happy and "lads" happy as well with 10-15% more in their bleeding pockets !!!

Sorry...so facking disapointted...3rd world class !

daveirl

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daveirl

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Wossack

well phew, all I can say is that Im glad my current green license says 'Provisional License' and not 'Learner Permit'

guess the new one to replace this one is in the post? nothing to worry about until it arrives?

DaBreno

Totals BS obviously but as a citizen of this country Im used to bollix like this making my life hard for no apparent reason. As a provo myself, Im still 20 weeks away from my own driving test. A time made all the more interesting by the fact that I now have evade law enforcement.
Hahaha! I kid! I never see them from one end of the year to the next. :rolleyes:

I would like to echo the statements made earlier that Provisional license holders are safe drivers and know their rules of the road. Roundabouts are the bext example, all provos know their lanes and indicators unlike some license holders. Wheres the crime+punishment there?

I dont belive this will make a difference, it is a big noise on the day that a lot of senior civil servants get pay rises for being poor so it serves that purpose anyways. *Claps*

Its not going to stop me but Im not saying with a revolutionary voice. With a wife, kid on the way and a mortgage I simply cant afford not to drive. Its a totally unrealisitc expectation. If we had the public transport of Holland for instance, maybe I could get away with it. But as a peon of rural Ireland, its not an option. My tax money was spent elsewhere sadly...