New Rules for Learner Drivers

Ste.phen

I think it would be a good idea for you to get a driver's license tbh.

CerebralCortex

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

True. I'm bitter I guess. I spent a hell of a lot of money on lessons as I said more than 30 I'm well able to drive and carefully, I've had 3 lesson with 2 instructors in the car that will testify to that. When I did the test I was given a grade 3 because someone else broke the law and on a feeling. I went back to the point in the test where I failed and I'm still not thoroughly convinced it was a failable offense but what can I do. Well according to these new laws even less. They are too general.

I guess us provos are on the losing side of the argument because we haven't passed.

Doodah7

I think it would be a good idea for the young L-driver I passed this morning doing 60 km/h on a N-road (limit of 100 km/h) with a line of traffic behind her to have someone with her next Tuesday tell her to move on or to get out of the way!!

DarkJager

Qualified drivers, your "witty" comments about getting the license are wearing old. Please shut the **** up. Its not as easy as walking into a test centre and just doing it tomorrow morning.

As for complaints, you can contact Noel Dempsey through his website:

www.noeldempsey.ie

Also use the RSA email address above, and make sure to contact your local TD about it. Thats what they are there for.

Ste.phen

cregser wrote: »

My 2nd provisional came into effect on Monday. Three days later I find out it's benefits will be nullified after one week! I have 8 working hours tomorrow to get a full license or arrange to have licensed passenger.

So you're saying that next week you'll be in the same legal position you were in last week?

- formalise L-plates more. ...

I think the current system of:
L plate = learner driver
No L plate = qualified driver
is fine...

mathie

I think the rule should apply to L drivers who have failed a test.
Not L drivers who are waiting for their first test.
M

How Strange

I'm a full licenced driver but I think this new move is very harsh. I would have thought they would have publicised the changeover about 3-6 months in advance which would have given the L drivers time to apply for their tests and then make sure there is a failsafe plan in place allowing people to sit their test within that time.

IMO, the ridiculous situation with all the L drivers on the roads is largely the responsibility of successive governments. The political will has never been there to sort out the debacle that is the testing system and I would imagine that the EU finally told the government to get this crazy situation sorted out. But giving people less than a week's notice is hardly equitable.

What about L drivers who need their cars to get to work - especially if you live in rural areas? So what happens now - the L drivers who need their cars for work have to make alternative arrangements at short notice until they can sit their test in 6 months - 1 years time.

DarkJager

Someone I know is due to renew their provisional licence today. This will be their 2nd provisional. Will they be given the actual licence or this new "Learners Permit"? Seeing as it isn't coming in until October 30th, what will be given?

covert

As a learner driver, I am not against the new regulations, restrictive and all as they are - they're common sense, and bring us some way along the road towards best practice in that area.

However, I do resent the implication that "sorting out" learner drivers will solve our road safety problems. I certainly consider myself to be a better driver than many qualified drivers, most of the worst driving I see is from cars without L plates, and let us not forget that there is still a whole swathe of now aging drivers out there who never had to pass a test, and got their licences through an amnesty.

Learner drivers are a soft touch and an easy target. Sorting poor driving amongst qualified drivers requires real hard work, which is why it will never be done.

Helix

Placebo wrote: »

IVE ONLY HAD MY LICENSE six month, let me breathe, im not gonna apply for my FULL DRIVING test when i just got my provisional

i got my provisional last june, applied for the test in february, and passed it first time last week

i dont see why someone wouldnt apply for their test 6 months or so after getting their provisional

Whispered

Hiya, I'm a learner driver (2nd provisional) and I have a few comments to make, firstly, the law was changed so quickly and as of next monday I cant drive to work, how can they do this?? I've paid tax,ins etc and am a better, and more considrate driver than a lot if full license holders. I am not cocky and i dont try to bully people on the road,as a lot of experienced drivers do. I bought a new car a month ago and now must consider selling it because the waiting list for tests is just too long to keep a car taxed and insured and sitting in my garden. And I'm sure it's now going to be an even longer wait when the centres are flooded with people trying to get a test. I think that the laws that were already there should be enforced before changing them, I know plenty of provisional drivers who get their license and go out on the road with 2 lessons behind them, this is against the law and should indeed be stopped. But, as with the whole "certain dogs are banned" fiasco, the powers that be are taking the easy way out with a blanket ban, instead of enforcing the laws that are already there to protect people on the road. As for the full license drivers who are here giving us learners grief, I have to assume that you didn't drive alone at all until you passed your test? I assume I will not be able to sell my car easily as the market will be flooded with learners trying to get rid of their car. I live in kildare and work in dublin, I hope the government are planning on improving the service provided by buses to help out the thousands of people they are taking off the road?? Doubt it. Are they planning on doing something to cut the waiting time for tests? I have a friend who was told she will be waiting until next AUGUST for a test!! I mean seriously, what are we supposed to do?? Also for the full license drivers, how would you feel if in 3 years the government turned around and told you that if your car didn't have a certain environmental rating it wasn't allowed out on the road? And you have 3 days to make allowances for this. How would you cope? How would you get to work? I have no problem with this ban if we were given some sort of option, like a test guaranteed within 2 months etc. Also, are the drivers who were given full licenses years ago without sitting a test going to have to sit one now? In my opinion they should.

Helix

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

I only bought a car a month ago as it was needed living by myself.

youre driving a month and you think you have a god given right to be allowed on the road despite the law (which was in place before now, just not enforced, correct?)?

Evd-Burner

So many people are categorising people its unfair altogether, not everyone is the same...

so its ok to put us into a category but not anybody else... Does nobody see how stupid that is...

If there going to do this i think that all old people should have a medical test once a year to ensure that they can drive and should have to resit there test immedietly to ensure they can drive...

Helix

everyone should have to do a driving test every 10 years

Whispered

Yes Helix, not enforced, wouldnt thy be better to enforce the laws that are there before introducing new ones? If you look at it logically and assume the reason it wasn't enforced is not because the guards couldn't be bothered, but because they dont have the resources, how can they be expected to enforce this? Sure the criminals will be have a great time while the guards are stopping all us provisional holders

frostypiglet

I must admit this announcement is exceptionally unfair. I am a provisional driver who purchased a car last year, did a series or numerous driving lessons, pay tax and insurance on my car and for what!!

I live quite far from where I work and I need to commute on a daily basis, there is no public transport to where I work and as I live on my own, I would like the government to tell me how am I now going to earn a living if I cant get to work!!!!!!!. Like previous comments I may now have to sell my car.

I do believe however this should be brought in but the time frame, ( Next Monday ) is totally unacceptable. Where I live it take 28 weeks to get a test, and what good is that to me.

I applied for it this morning but I am sure that the rest of the country is doing the same.

mathie

It's all about enforcement.

The old 'I forgot my license' trick I'm sure is being used by many.

For years 'my friend' drove with no L plates on a provisional.
Get stopped by the cops?
No problem.
'I left my license at home, silly me!'
'Produce it within 10 days like a good lad, now off you toddle'

So producing a provisional a few days later raised no eyebrows.

Now if we had some enforcement whereby if I didn't have my licence with me and was dragged off to the copshop for a few hours to verify my identity it would make people think twice about driving around on a provisional.

M

Whispered

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In 1979 the waiting time was 2.5 years. :eek:

Wasn't it around then they were given licenses without a test? I know an older woman who was given a license without a test and somhow she is legally allowed to drive a bus! (I dont know if thats normal for those lisences or if that was a mistake) The woman can barely drive a car!

Helix

in the interest of fairness i do agree it was brought in too quickly, they shouldve taken the longest waiting time from monday and rounded it up by a week, and said on that date, this is all being enforced

that gives every single person in the country on the waiting list for a driving test the chance to have their test

parliament

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The irony of the thing is that Provisional drivers are actually much better drivers [ie. more careful] than fully licensed ones...

Sources for the above? Or is it just your opinion.

Most countries do not allow learner drivers to drive unaccompanied , technically neither does Ireland but this is rarely enforced. The best thing would be for people to stop moaning, comply with the laws and in 10 years time when you have a full license an no longer have to worry about being a learner driver you will look back and be thankful for these measures and the fact that they have made our roads safer.

Whispered

Helix wrote: »

in the interest of fairness i do agree it was brought in too quickly, they shouldve taken the longest waiting time from monday and rounded it up by a week, and said on that date, this is all being enforced

that gives every single person in the country on the waiting list for a driving test the chance to have their test

I think most people would accept that quite happily, and those who dont are the ones who shouldn't be on the road.

Helix

what i find funny is the fact that there are so many people here who were breaking the law, giving out about it being more difficult for them to break the law and not get caught

it IS unfair, but only because it was rushed in. the idea behind it is spot on imo

Helix

mathie wrote: »

Now if we had some enforcement whereby if I didn't have my licence with me and was dragged off to the copshop for a few hours to verify my identity it would make people think twice about driving around on a provisional.

no licence is 2 points now according to the radio last night

Whispered

Its fun to break the law hehe, I'm totally joking, but thats my point exactly, enforce the laws that are there already

Helix

helena.ryan wrote: »

Its fun to break the law hehe, I'm totally joking, but thats my point exactly, enforce the laws that are there already

is that not pretty much what theyre doing? i mean, as it stands, its already illegal to drive without a fully licenced driver

all theyve done is introduced a fixed point penalty for it, and claimed that theyll enforce it

Whispered

As of monday I'd b breaking the law, and I have no intention of doing that, I know its there for a reason and I have no choice but to comply. Now though, having my 2nd prov I'm not breaking any law.

Calina

And where's the difference? You enforce the existing legislation and learner drivers still have to be accompanied for the most part. There is no effective difference to the net impact on drivers on their first and third and subsequent licences.

Also locking this because there's another thread on the subject running.

Helix

helena.ryan wrote: »

As of monday I'd b breaking the law, and I have no intention of doing that, I know its there for a reason and I have no choice but to comply. Now though, having my 2nd prov I'm not breaking any law.

thats fair enough in terms of people on their 2nd provisional, but im sure we all agree, thats the single most nonsensical law around

parliament

Helix wrote: »

..i dont see why someone wouldnt apply for their test 6 months or so after getting their provisional

Therein lies the problem because of the relaxed attitudes to learner drivers people see the provisional license as a license to drive (its a license to LEARN) and hence don't bother applying for the driving test or going for lessons. The majority of learner drivers have only themselves to blame and are also the ones giving learner drivers a bad name.

Helix

parliament wrote: »

Therein lies the problem because of the relaxed attitudes to learner drivers people see the provisional license as a license to drive (its a license to LEARN) and hence don't bother applying for the driving test or going for lessons. The majority of learner drivers have only themselves to blame and are also the ones giving learner drivers a bad name.

exactly

too many people see the provisional as their licence, and to hell with the driving test, sure cant you drive without it. its a bit ridiculous. i couldnt wait to get my full licence, got meself €212 back off my insurance and all when i passed. happy days

Branoic

Yes, some people see the prov as their licence, and don't bother applying for a test, and continue on provisionals for donkeys years. But what about those of us that don't?

This is insane. I'm a 26 year old male (27 in 3 months), and am in no way one of these "diseased" individuals that Gay Byrne refers to. I'm on a second provisional licence, I'm a working professional, AND i drive to attend night classes two nights a week for my post-graduate course. I'm lucky enough to have just received a date for my driving test in a months time, but if the Government or the Gardai think that I'm going to stay home from work or miss my college lectures for the next month, they're living in lala land.

Stark

Branoic wrote:

I'm a 26 year old male (27 in 3 months), and am in no way one of these "diseased" individuals that Gay Byrne refers to.

You get cured at age 26. It's the people aged between 17 and 26 who are diseased.

Zoney

I'm in favour of actually policing the laws we have rather than ignoring them, so from that perspective, I welcome this. However, I do think learners have a right to be outraged at the government for not sorting out the testing nonsense (i.e. so people only have to wait say 2-3 weeks rather than a year or whatever) before starting this crackdown.

I sincerely hope they all gripe very loudly to those in charge, rather than just complaining to their neighbour. However, I would suggest that the most effective thing to complain about is the difficulty in cheaply, quickly and easily a) getting lessons and decent quality instruction, b) getting a full licence.

People can't expect to have the freedom they've enjoyed up till now of driving like anyone else while they haven't learnt how to drive. A learner permit should simply be a permit to use a car to learn how to drive, not using it for transportation and theoretically learning by experience (a terrifying thought anyway without instruction, considering what's "acceptable" on our roads). Provisional licences should always just have been something given *after* passing the test, an acknowledgement that the driver is still inexperienced even if they have learnt the rules by proper instruction and lessons.

Imposter

I find it funny the people complaining about the costs of a few hours driving instruction and the cost of the test itself! What does insurance cost while you are on a provisional?

Over here in Austria the system is sensible (sounds similar to what's in Switzerland, Germany and France from what peope are saying). People are taught to drive before they get out on the roads on their own. Sure they are not perfect drivers after that but you can be sure on average they are far better drivers than the provisional license holders in Ireland. 1k€ cost is also not that much considering you do not need insurance as a provisional license holder (as no such thing exists*).


* Except for someone who is 17 but they actually end up with lots more training.

SeanW

When I first found out about this clampdown on 2nd provisional licensholders, the words that came to mind would not be fit to print in a family friendly forum.

It seems to me that the non-full licenseholder is an easy kicking boy for every gloryhunting politician and jumped up gob****e, like Gaybo talking about how young men under 26 are "diseased" by youth. He's a fine one to talk. He probably doesn't remember what it's like to be under 26 anymore.

And as for the 4 days notice - putting tens of thousands of motorists off the roads with this little notice sounds like something you'd do in Communist China or some 3rd world sh1thole.

Speaking of which, I checked the drivingtest.ie website and even by their own figures, many test centres still have insane waits for driving tests - some up to 44 weeks, and in my experience those tend to be conservative.

Also the new 6 month moratorium for new drivers to seek a test - don't we have that already by default? Or do they think it's OK compound a 10 month + waiting list with an additional 6 month wait?

Hard to believe this kind of crap is what the current politicians double their pay every 9 years to come up with.

parliament

What do you mean four days notice? The law about learner drivers needing to be accompanied has been around for years it just hasn't been policed. I learner drivers don't know the rules of the road (this being one of them) then maybe 4 days is 4 days too many!

dereko1969

i wonder how many people complaining on here waited months and months and months before applying for their test? the day you got your provisional licence you should have applied for the test, simple as. all this rubbish about the law being enforced is laughable, it's the law - deal with it.

Noopti

"Assistant Garda Commissioner in charge of the Garda Traffic Corps, Eddie Rock, said the new rules would be enforced "in a very effective manner".

He insisted: "Prosecutions will be taken."

Mr Rock also emphasised that gardai would police the changes in a commonsense manner which involved advice and cautions to motorists driving unaccompanied."

Straight from the horses mouth. I wouldn't worry too much about the "new" law. Unless you are 18-26 year old male. The Gardai will use common sense, and rightly so, until waiting lists for the test are drastically improved.

romarr

Noopti wrote: »

"Assistant Garda Commissioner in charge of the Garda Traffic Corps, Eddie Rock, said the new rules would be enforced "in a very effective manner".

He insisted: "Prosecutions will be taken."

Mr Rock also emphasised that gardai would police the changes in a commonsense manner which involved advice and cautions to motorists driving unaccompanied."

.

Where did you find this quote? ...

as with loads of other non under 26 y.o. (but male) ... the whole thing puts me in a bit of a jam...

Noopti

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/drivealone-ban-to-hit-420000-learners-1203955.html

SeanW

I'm talking about 2nd provisional licenseholders, who legally did not (until next Monday) have to be accompanied.

parliament wrote:

drivers don't know the rules of the road

glass houses ... stones.

GreeBo

jeffk wrote: »

€40 odd for the test,€80 ish for a two hour lesson with a driving instructor who in my case just say ah youll pass and if your feeling extra special €100 + for a mock pre test(with airport).
So over €200 spent and you still fail,oh and throw in the petrol doing ALL of the above so do you blame people?
Might as well book the test and try and bribe the instructor might be cheaper!

What on earth has the price you paid go to do with passing or not?
You failed because you didnt pass the test. Logic 101 buddy.
and in case it still eludes you, YOU failed.

stevoman

GreeBo wrote: »

What on earth has the price you paid go to do with passing or not?
You failed because you didnt pass the test. Logic 101 buddy.
and in case it still eludes you, YOU failed.

so what, he making the effort to get out there and try and get it. and it is very disheartening to people who are paying out a lot of money to do lessons and test and can't pass. people are not made of money YOU know

GreeBo

stevoman wrote: »

so what, he making the effort to get out there and try and get it. and it is very disheartening to people who are paying out a lot of money to do lessons and test and can't pass. people are not made of money YOU know

A driving licence isnt awarded to the most improved driver or the driver who tried his hardest. Its awarded to drivers who pass the driving test.
If you dont pass then its your fault. You are not good enough.
This is the most amusing thread I have read in ages. Sure its ****ty if you keep failing, no one says it isnt, but finally the country has realised that its retarded to let people fail a driving test and then let the drive home.

Just think about it, people are proving that they are not able to drive properly and yet there is uproar that we dont let them continue to drive. What on earth is the point of the test if you can drive anyway. The test is not designed to lower your insurance, passing the test means you are less of an insurance risk.

But do go on, Im enjoying this teen-angst thread immensely.:rolleyes:

parliament

SeanW wrote: »

I'm talking about 2nd provisional licenseholders, who legally did not (until next Monday) have to be accompanied.

glass houses ... stones.

Whats this glass houses stuff about...It has been a requirement for a very long time to be accompanied methinks you don't know the rules. You are looking at what is being policed not what it actually stipulated.

Cushtie

parliament wrote: »

Whats this glass houses stuff about...It has been a requirement for a very long time to be accompanied methinks you don't know the rules. You are looking at what is being policed not what it actually stipulated.

A holder of a second provisional licence may drive unaccompanied by someone who has a full licence AFAIK. thats what the other poster was referring to. That will now change next Tuesday

Chris_533976

Cushtie wrote: »

A holder of a second provisional licence may drive unaccompanied by someone who has a full licence AFAIK. thats what the other poster was referring to. That will now change next Tuesday

Yeah its basically a giant loophole and its good that its being closed.

I have little sympathy for provisional licence holders who feel hard done by due to this, your licence is to learn, not to be effectively a full driver doing and going whatever you want. Although I do feel that the length of time for the test fails provisional holders miserably.

romarr

Greebo - your right, you fail = you fail... no prizes for second place and all that... if it improves road safety I'm all for it

4 days notice is my issue... so come tuesday, down L plates and hope that Mr Rock's commonsense dosent land me a fine...

"Mr Rock also emphasised that gardai would police the changes in a commonsense manner which involved advice and cautions to motorists driving unaccompanied."

GreeBo wrote: »

But do go on, Im enjoying this teen-angst thread immensely.:rolleyes:

Do you enjoy the 30 something angst as well ?

Stark

There's no such thing as 30-something angst. It's 30-something gloat. Your few years of pleasure before your mid-life crisis.

romarr

and gloat I do ... !

but not too happy to be coming foul of the law on tue for something i legally do today ... law breaking = angst, not too much angst mind you, just a little,... now getting caught and fined = more angst...