New Rules for Learner Drivers

Stark

Judging by Gaybo's comments anyway, this whole thing is a war on youth, rather than a war on unqualified drivers specifically. He basically said "we can't criminalise people for being under 26, but statistically they're more likely to hold provisional licenses, so we can criminalise them based on that".

Red Alert

any official confirmation that it's being deferred?

Calina

Stark wrote: »

Judging by Gaybo's comments anyway, this whole thing is a war on youth, rather than a war on unqualified drivers specifically. He basically said "we can't criminalise people for being under 26, but statistically they're more likely to hold provisional licenses, so we can criminalise them based on that".

What planet are you on?

You are not criminalised by holding a provisional licence, but by abusing the terms under which you are granted that licence. In other words, if you abide by the rules of your licence, you are not criminalised. Gaybo, while a less than intelligent choice for road safety eye candy is not criminalising you. You're doing it yourself.

trellheim

How many penalty points for

1: No L plates
2: Driving Unaccompanied

?

Edit : Can't see any on existing list. BUT Aren't you driving uninsured if no companion ?

=> 5 penalty points right there friends.

More than 12 = off the road [ lose licence ]

More and 1 or 2 .... Insurance goes woo woo woo !



Lucky to get a renewal after that.

Think on that amigos. Personally I think it's great.

stevedublin

Just remember, young people of Ireland (I loooove you!), that it was a Fianna Fail led government that introduced this measure.
Please remember this for the rest of your lives, especially when you go to vote.

romarr

Red Alert wrote: »

any official confirmation that it's being deferred?

not yet .... but sounds like theres hope !

rte news

Friday, 26 October 2007 13:06
New motoring laws may be deferred: Friday, 26 October 2007 13:06

"There are indications that the enforcement of motoring laws due to have come into effect next week is to be put back until the New Year"

lostinsuperfunk

I don't think it's fair to spring this change without having reduced the test waiting times first. One month would be a reasonable waiting time. And the waiting times are going to get much, much worse because nearly all of those 300,000 provisional licence holders are now going to apply at once.

So my advice to any L-drivers out there is to apply for a test right now, because there's going to be a big rush! I just checked drivingtest.ie and it's timing out, so it might already be too late.

As an aside, I wonder if anyone in the government has calculated the potential loss to the economy due to tens of thousands of people not being easily able to get to work from next week onwards.
Of course there might be a gain too if it helps ease congestion on the roads...

stevoman

does it not all seem a liitle bit of a coincidence that the same day they make this announcment and put the country into uproar, they decide to give themselves pay hikes,of whioch berties is way more then i even make in a year.

a nice little political manouver so it was. overshadow the ludacris pay rises for themselves by slapping out new road statagies without warning that effect up to 420,000 people.

Ham'nd'egger

stevoman wrote: »

does it not all seem a liitle bit of a coincidence that the same day they make this announcment and put the country into uproar, they decide to give themselves pay hikes,of whioch berties is way more then i even make in a year.

a nice little political manouver so it was. overshadow the ludacris pay rises for themselves by slapping out new road statagies without warning that effect up to 420,000 people.

Stevoman, do you think this move will cut down on road accidents in general and lead to less deaths, yes or no?

stevoman

Hamndegger wrote: »

Stevoman, do you think this move will cut down on road accidents in general and lead to less deaths, yes or no?

yes of course. i think we all think that..... BUT, the way, time and fashion it was implemented was nothing short of a farce. i live 15 miles from work, have a girlfriend who is expecting a baby and we are trying to afford a house. i am relying heavily on overtime and under these new rules i cant get anyone who is going to sit in my car with me at 8.00 every morning to go to work with me and i can't get anyone to sit and and come home with me at 8.00 in the evening let alone 4 in the evening. where does this leave me? there is not public transport network to take me from where i live to where i work.

corktina

these regulations mostly affect second provisonl holders...so why not give them fast-track test...they've had loads of time to learn after all so should be ready for tests now. Suspend test for first time license holders until the long term holders are all dealt with ,

Stark

corktina wrote:

Suspend test for first time license holders until the long term holders are all dealt with

But that's not fair to those first time license holders who have committed themselves to passing their tests.

tomED

Looks like the driving test website has been inundated with traffic today.... www.drivingtest.ie is down.

Anyway - my 2 cents is - anyone that fails their driving test (even once) shouldn't be on the road by themselves. No ifs or buts. Someone that fails it 4 times - shouldn't be on the road without someone driving them.

It's about time these laws were brought in - and if they hold off - just shows how serious the government really are.....

corktina

Stark wrote: »

Not true, the insurance company is still obliged to pay out. The insurance company can in turn sue the driver for the costs, but that's not the same as driving uninsured.

yeah...but you try to make them pay out.....might cost you quite a bit to acheive it....the fact is if you are in breach of the terms of your policy (ie driving illegally) then your policy is void.

stevoman

tomED wrote: »

Anyway - my 2 cents is - anyone that fails their driving test (even once) shouldn't be on the road by themselves. No ifs or buts. Someone that fails it 4 times - shouldn't be on the road without someone driving them.

QUOTE]


just as well your 2 cents is worth f*** all then

ledgearooni

Anybody know how many people > 72 years old have bought their lic? What about them? They haven't even passed a theory test!

Calina

corktina wrote: »

these regulations mostly affect second provisonl holders...so why not give them fast-track test...they've had loads of time to learn after all so should be ready for tests now. Suspend test for first time license holders until the long term holders are all dealt with ,

Have they all applied for tests, those second licence holders?

stevoman

what about full driving license holders who received their licences in the amnesty in the 80's?

Old_-_School

Dempsey said on the radio "the garda authorities will take a 'common sense' approach for 'two or three months'."

i.e. it won't be enforced for two or three months.

stevoman

its gives us drivers who are not on their first provisional a liitle time, but im already applied last week for another test. its common sense to do that seems that a lot of people including myself have no othermeans of getting to work other than driving.

stevoman

just on rte's website. there contradicting each other now.....

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey has confirmed that the gardaí will adopt what he called a 'proportionate' approach to the enforcement of new motoring laws.

However, A Garda spokesman has said that gardaí will enforce any new legislation that comes into effect regarding provisional driving licence holders.

green rover

there were 300 driving test applications a minute today on drivingtest.ie (that was before it crashed)

looks like all this has achieved is to make the waiting period to sit a test longer :rolleyes:

the timing of the announcement is a little dubious as well, same day the government and senior civil servants get a big pay rise AND just before a bank holiday.;)

whats needed is some kind of driver education programme in schools as part of the curriculum. makes it fairer so everyone starts off on the same footing. then a graded licence system.

the system as it is means, you can go from not driving on a motorway to driving on a motorway after passing a test that involves no testing of driving ability on a motorway, thats plain idioitic.

dcr22B

I'm sorry but I'm finding it extremely difficult to find an ounce of sympathy for a lot of people finding themselves in this predicament.

For those of you who have applied for tests and kept on coming back for more, fair play for sticking at it but don't fool yourselves into thinking that your failures are a result of a conspiracy. Do you think testers take pleasure in failing people?? If you do your test properly then there is no possibility that you will fail your test.

The sooner it gets idiots who drive down the M1 in the outside lane at 100 km/h with an empty driving lane inside them the better!

I drove on a provisional for two years before I got my licence and I was never allowed to take my mother's car unless she was with me and it stood to me as I never picke up any bad habits from being let loose on my own.

Stark

dcr22B wrote:

The sooner it gets idiots who drive down the M1 in the outside lane at 100 km/h with an empty driving lane inside them the better!

Alas, most of those morons have full licenses

dcr22B

Sorry I forgot to add that a good few that I've come across have an L plate in the top corner of their rear windows.

On a moot point, anyone who can't even put their L plates on the correct way shouldn't be let anywhere near the driving seat of a car. It's amazing how many people I've seen who have this on their cars.

spareman

Just interested to see the result of this poll based on the provisional licence issue.

faceman

no poll attached dude!

spareman

Give us a chance to add it will ya, dude!!:p

Calina

Already a similar poll in Motors/Learning to drive so closing.

stevoman

i do agree with the laws, but they MUST be phased in. it just seems plain unfair for them not to be for the people who are trying to get a pass on their tests. REMEMBER FOLKS , not all provisional drivers are lacsy daisy about applying. there are people out there working hard to get a pass.

cyclopath2001

Stark wrote: »

Alas, most of those morons have full licenses

Or maybe, they're hiding their L-plates?

jman0

green rover wrote: »

whats needed is some kind of driver education programme in schools as part of the curriculum. makes it fairer so everyone starts off on the same footing. then a graded licence system.

No way should the education system indoctornate young people into a motorist centric point-of-view.
We need fewer motorists and more public transport thank you very much.

green rover

jman0 wrote: »

No way should the education system indoctornate young people into a motorist centric point-of-view.
We need fewer motorists and more public transport thank you very much.

some kind of basic education is needed though. makes it fairer if its done through schools, offered to everyone not just those who can afford it.

the whole driver licensing and testing system needs a total over haul, but that is unlikely to happen

BeatNikDub

corktina wrote: »

these regulations mostly affect second provisonl holders...so why not give them fast-track test...they've had loads of time to learn after all so should be ready for tests now. Suspend test for first time license holders until the long term holders are all dealt with ,

I absolutely agree with this.

I failed my first test, definitely due to nerves. I made mistakes I never had before and never have since. I definitely deserved to fail that day due to these mistakes but feel much more confident about going the second time round now I know what it all entails! Also there were 4 other people doing it the same day as me and all were failed.
If only I could get a bloody date for a test, I do it tomorrow if I could!

dubred

Slightly off the train of the discussion, but I went for a walk today at lunchtime in the Clonskeagh area but failed to see a single L-plate in about a 1 mile stretch of busy road. Given that about 1 in 6 cars is supposed to be driven by a provisional license holder, it looks like the new laws are already working;)

green rover

dubred wrote: »

Slightly off the train of the discussion, but I went for a walk today at lunchtime in the Clonskeagh area but failed to see a single L-plate in about a 1 mile stretch of busy road. Given that about 1 in 6 cars is supposed to be driven by a provisional license holder, it looks like the new laws are already working;)

:eek: wow this could really work

BrianD

the new rules are most welcome. In reality there is very little change other than everybody has a warning that the laws are now going to be enforced.

There are a substantial number of people who are abusing the system by simply not applying for a test. I've even heard of people who have applied for provisional licences using addresses in different counties. Gross abuse of the system.

the fact of the matter that even in the worse case scenario you will still get a driving test withing the lifespan of your provisional licence.

I would be concerned that the reason why another poster has seen no L-drivers today is that people are taking down their L plates to avoid been stopped (this should be a points offence).

Ham'nd'egger

stevoman wrote: »

yes of course. i think we all think that..... BUT, the way, time and fashion it was implemented was nothing short of a farce. i live 15 miles from work, have a girlfriend who is expecting a baby and we are trying to afford a house. i am relying heavily on overtime and under these new rules i cant get anyone who is going to sit in my car with me at 8.00 every morning to go to work with me and i can't get anyone to sit and and come home with me at 8.00 in the evening let alone 4 in the evening. where does this leave me? there is not public transport network to take me from where i live to where i work.

Stevo, while I feel for your prediciment, until you pass your driving test, you are not quailfied to drive a car. I am glad that you agree that it will cut road crashes and deaths (DV), this is the prime reason to roll this out and Noel Dempsey is a gutsy f*cker to do it.

green rover

my mate was telling me that the private companies doing driving tests have an 80% pass rate compared to just over 50% with the public testers!! :eek:

was he talking out of his arse, that can't be right thats a huge difference

Zoney

Well, as I previously pointed out, I'm sympathetic to the concept of actually policing the laws we have.

However, you have to hand it to the government for creating a mini-crisis as a result of their decision to have a "crack-down". There is no doubt that the economy does depend on thousands of drivers who shouldn't be let on the road by themselves. Also it's pretty obvious that this turn of events will exacerbate waiting times for the driving test.

It's absolutely incredible that we still have the driving test waiting time problems - it is a *DECADES* old issue - the only reason they were ever shorter in recent time is cause of the free licences bail-out in 1979 or whenever it was. It would seem that having "reset the counter" as it were, governments since have just let it build up again.

For anyone who doesn't want a bout of despair, I recommend against Googling for "site:oireachtas.ie provisional licence" or "site:oireachtas.ie driving test waiting". Actually, to be honest, it is depressing searching for any keywords pertaining to all manner of "current" issues to see the same old stuff talked about ad nauseum over decades. Also depressing is the fact that seemingly Irish journalists can't even perform a simple search query on the Internet like this (unsurprisingly there are plenty of other reliable sources of information for dragging up past history, or actual reliable figures, or any kind of reliable background info whatsoever for a current issue that would prove any politicians utterances as being utter guff).

spareman

This has to be the single most important piece of legislation in recent years, I think everyone agree's it is a good idea and will save lives, The sticky point seems to be the manner in which it has been introduced, It now seems that the Gardai will be directed to be considerate when dealing with this for a while anyway, Id say anyone who has a provisional licence will be ok untill it expires, anyone with a driving permit will be fined. That would be the sensible thing to do anyway I think, Word of warning to provisional licence holders, Dont take down the L plates, if you dont have any get some, if the Garda find you have not displayed your L plates you will probably be fined, if your honest with them, they will be considerate with you.

Brian CivilEng

Whilst I support this inititive, and agree that provisional license holders should not be allowed drive on their own, I think that the government are concentrating on punishing people for doing something wrong rather than helping people do something right. We need inititives to help people learn how to be better drivers, I think that we need some serious investment in driving schools, and maybe a few closed practice tracks.

I am on my third provisional and have failed my driving test twice. My first provisional I never used to drive with, I got it when I turned 18 to use as ID for purchasing booze. When I got my second provisional, I took 25 driving lessons, and then sat the test. I failed because I stalled the car four times. My driving instructer told me that taking lessons was not enough, that I needed to be out driving on my own every evening to gain confidence. Now this is no longer an option for people, yet there is no alternative. I have since taken 10 more lessons and driving instructers have told me that I do not need to take any more, I just need some experience. I do have my girlfriend to accompany me now so I can practice, however not everyone has someone to accompany them. Taking lessons just to get mileage is an expensive business. Not all people can drive confidently after just five or ten lessons, there is no substitute for experience, and I am afraid that this new law makes it more difficult for some people to gain that experience.

Incidentally I failed my second test because I am not a good driver, and do not intend to apply for a third test until I am confident enough to know I can pass. I am not using up a slot by failing again, and increasing the waiting list for people who can drive and are waiting to prove it. Forcing people to take the test as some posters here have suggested is not the answer, I know that if I took the test 10 times I could fluke a pass once or twice. But I am not yet experienced enough to be a good driver.

fathersymes

about time, L drivers by definition cannot drive and it is scandalous they are allowed endanger themselves and others on the roads.

Hotblack Desiato

stevedublin wrote: »

Just remember, young people of Ireland (I loooove you!), that it was a Fianna Fail led government that introduced this measure.
Please remember this for the rest of your lives, especially when you go to vote.

I will. I think it's the best thing they've ever done. Usually they run a mile from doing the right thing for fear of losing a few votes.

E92

ninja900 wrote: »

I will. I think it's the best thing they've ever done. Usually they run a mile from doing the right thing for fear of losing a few votes.

If Fianna Fáil are so hunky dory why didn't they introduce it before the election?

This has been planned for ages.There was lots of talk about these ideas before the election. Whats more the plans were ready beore the election. I knewabout all these "wonderful" ideas at the start of the year. The reason I knew was from reading various papers.

Anyway there is a bit of a mini crises going on at the moment, they don't know whether it is going ahead as planned or not. Anyone listen to Noel Dempsy this morning and what weas being said by the same man in the afternoon?

I have nothing against lowering drink driving limits or the notion of L-drivers have to drive unaccompanied in principle. I just think the haphazard and sudden nature of it is wrong. The things about speeding etc I have a major problem with.

Ham'nd'egger

E92 wrote: »

The things about speeding etc I have a major problem with.

You have a major problem with any speed limits, if your postings here are anything to go by:)

corktina

the fact is......100 k/mh is too fast .....often

60 k/mh is too fast if you are inexperianced

followed a learner the other day who was obviously very new to it....swerving all over the place, crossing the lines to the left and to the right, braking when anything came the other way....and yet...when he got to a straight he was hitting 100K+.....i kept well back from him.....

Hotblack Desiato

corktina wrote: »

60 k/mh is too fast if you are inexperianced

If you're that inexperienced, what the hell would you be doing on a road with a speed limit greater than that anyway???

Wonder what the R-plate restriction will be. Doesn't make any sense to allow R platers on motorways or main roads but force them to go way below the speed limit, it's more dangerous.

corktina

i think in terh North, its just to let folk know you arent experianced...I agree it would be mad to make R drivers travel slower than it might be safe to do....

E92

Hamndegger wrote: »

You have a major problem with any speed limits, if your postings here are anything to go by:)

Well since all the supposed "safety boffins" think all our woes would be solved if we all just slow down a bit, I feel it is important that people are told the truth and the truth is that on German Motorways you are no more likely to die on the sections with no speed limit as you are on the sections with a speed limit, the UKs own Government thinks speeding is responsible for only 5% of deaths, and there has been no reduction in the number of road deaths since the mass introduction of speed cameras over there.;)

But yes I despise the idea that they might actually make limits even lower, because they are pretty low by international standardss as they are, like only 100 on a road that is a Motorway in all but name. I guess thats part and parcel of being a car enthusiast:D.