New Rules for Learner Drivers

dervoc30

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

It's announced on RTE that, under a new road safety strategy, starting Tuesday, ALL provisional license holders (does not matter if 1st, 2nd etc) will have to be accompanied by a fully-qualified driver of 2 years experience.

Possible outsomes:

1: Less traffic on Tuesday.
2: More people sharing cars.
3: People will hide their L-plates?

There's more apparently, anyone got a link to the new strategy?

I THINK IT IS SO UNFAIR , I AM TOO NERVOUS TO GO AND DO MY DRIVNG TEST , I THINK ANYONE THAT HAS APPLIED SHOULD NOT BE INCLUDE IT SHOULD BE PEOPLE WHO NEVER HAVE BOTHERED TO APPLY AT ALL. AND MOST OF ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY PEOPLE WITH FULL DRIVING LICENSE THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESET THEIR TEST

Calina

dervoc30 wrote: »

I THINK IT IS SO UNFAIR , I AM TOO NERVOUS TO GO AND DO MY DRIVNG TEST , I THINK ANYONE THAT HAS APPLIED SHOULD NOT BE INCLUDE IT SHOULD BE PEOPLE WHO NEVER HAVE BOTHERED TO APPLY AT ALL. AND MOST OF ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY PEOPLE WITH FULL DRIVING LICENSE THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESET THEIR TEST

It's after midnight and I am not usually around modding.

a couple of points. Using all caps makes me itchy and consider banning. It is rude and thoughtless. Do not do it again or I will ban you. Please also read the charter particularly the bits about ranting.

Secondly if you are too nervous to go and do your driving test, then you should not be driving. I don't care how good you think you are otherwise.

Thirdly, it is a straw man argument to say what should be done with fully qualified drivers in the event of an accident. The fact remains that there is a law regarding unqualified drivers which has been flouted. It should not be flouted. It should not be necessary even to police it, to be honest. Unfortunately, this being the two bit country it occasionally and frequently is, the main law is not "don't do something" it is "don't get caught doing something".

There is absolutely no justification for unqualified drivers being allowed to drive on their own. The vast majority of them are not second provisional licence holders so those that did drive on their own were breaking the law, pure and simple.

dubdcugirly

As a provisional driver (1st license!) I have to say im pissed off!
I agree changes should be made completly but I along with two family members and two friends have applied for our test and are all waiting
Im waiting as are my family members...we need practise before our tests but now what are we supposed to do! I repeat I completly agree but come on give those of us who wants to be a fully licensed driver a chance!

Calina

dubdcugirly wrote: »

As a provisional driver (1st license!) I have to say im pissed off!
I agree changes should be made completly but I along with two family members and two friends have applied for our test and are all waiting
Im waiting as are my family members...we need practise before our tests but now what are we supposed to do! I repeat I completly agree but come on give those of us who wants to be a fully licensed driver a chance!

Well personally I paid for driving lessons in Dublin and Cork at the time because I wasn't insured to drive any other car. Is there some problem with this concept?

Edit: I'd also add that the cost of the lessons plus taxis trains and buses was significantly less than the cost of running and insuring a car for the 11 months it took me to get a driving test date.

Forgive me - I'm starting to get a little weary of the "what are we supposed to do to practise" argument because the obvious answer is to get lessons. It's what they do in other countries like France and Germany where in the former case the road fatality rate is plummeting and in the latter case it was always a hell of a lot better than it is here.

Wishbone Ash

dervoc30 wrote: »

MOST OF ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY PEOPLE WITH FULL DRIVING LICENSE THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESET THEIR TEST

A young male driver on a provisional licence is 8 times more likely to be killed in a road traffic accident than a middle aged driver on a full licence.

jimmycrackcorm

dervoc30 wrote: »

I THINK IT IS SO UNFAIR , I AM TOO NERVOUS TO GO AND DO MY DRIVNG TEST , I THINK ANYONE THAT HAS APPLIED SHOULD NOT BE INCLUDE IT SHOULD BE PEOPLE WHO NEVER HAVE BOTHERED TO APPLY AT ALL. AND MOST OF ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY PEOPLE WITH FULL DRIVING LICENSE THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESET THEIR TEST

If you are too nervous then surely you shouldn't be out driving without supervision?

As for re-sitting the driving test do you think all surgeons who have a patient die on the operating table should also re-do their medical exams?

Amata

Edit:" I'd also add that the cost of the lessons plus taxis trains and buses was significantly less than the cost of running and insuring a car for the 11 months it took me to get a driving test date."


What???it costs about 900 for 11months to travel on dublin bus with a discounted student ticket. That's not including the luas and dart which would inevitably cost more. taxis? god knows how much that would be...well, an absolute fortune...Driving lessons cost 40 euro a pop...10 lessons? 400 euro? You are well up to 1500 euro easily, if not more...my insurance cost 1000 euro...saving!

oscarBravo

AndrewMc wrote: »

A student pilot can fly solo if the CFI gives the go-ahead. At least that's how it was a few years ago — don't think it has changed.

I'm going to jump in on this point, as the comparison between learning to drive and learning to fly is instructive. (Note that I'm going by personal experience here; others may differ.)

You start the process of learning to fly by flying with a qualified instructor. You begin by flying to a practice area away from regular traffic, where you learn how the controls work. After a while you start to fly circuits - basically, you practice taking off and landing over and over (and over and over and over...) again.

When your instructor is sure you've gotten the hang of it (and s/he needs to be pretty damn sure, when you consider what's at stake), you get to fly solo. This means you get to do the practice flying without the instructor sitting in the plane with you. You don't get to wander off on your own on a whim, and you don't get to bring anyone else with you.

Then you learn navigation techniques and cross-country flying, accompanied by your instructor. When you get the hang of that, you get to do solo cross-countries. During this time, you sit six (or is it more now?) written exams. Assuming you pass all those and a medical, once the instructor feels you're ready, you apply for a test.

The test is conducted to a very high standard, and examines you on your ability to handle the plane through basic maneouvres, cross-country navigation, and emergency situations (like simulated engine failure).

Once you've passed the flight test, you've got a licence and you're allowed to fly on your own and carry passengers. You have to log a minimum number of flying hours each year, and continue to pass medicals.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that it should be quite this difficult to get a driving licence, but it does illustrate that a pilot's licence is a privilege - not a right. It is earned through hard work in a controlled environment, and yields rewards in relative safety. Flying is intrinsically a much more dangerous activity than driving but is statistically much safer.

oscarBravo

Amata wrote: »

Edit:" I'd also add that the cost of the lessons plus taxis trains and buses was significantly less than the cost of running and insuring a car for the 11 months it took me to get a driving test date."


What???it costs about 900 for 11months to travel on dublin bus with a discounted student ticket. That's not including the luas and dart which would inevitably cost more. taxis? god knows how much that would be...well, an absolute fortune...Driving lessons cost 40 euro a pop...10 lessons? 400 euro? You are well up to 1500 euro easily, if not more...my insurance cost 1000 euro...saving!

I drive a company van. The lease is about €250 a month; the insurance is €600 a year; the tax is €250 a year. I go through maybe €75 worth of diesel in a month.

That's €4,750 a year, before I change a tyre, or get it serviced or DoE'd. There's nothing cheap about running a car.

Calina

Amata wrote: »

Edit:" I'd also add that the cost of the lessons plus taxis trains and buses was significantly less than the cost of running and insuring a car for the 11 months it took me to get a driving test date."


What???it costs about 900 for 11months to travel on dublin bus with a discounted student ticket. That's not including the luas and dart which would inevitably cost more. taxis? god knows how much that would be...well, an absolute fortune...Driving lessons cost 40 euro a pop...10 lessons? 400 euro? You are well up to 1500 euro easily, if not more...my insurance cost 1000 euro...saving!

8 years ago I was quoted something like 850 pounds for insurance as a named driver which was approximately 1300E give or take a couple. The cost of Dublin Bus tickets plus rail tickets home didn't come to anything close to 900E, and the driving lessons amounted to about 30E an hour. Add to the insurance the cost of running a car and yes, I was quids in by doing things the way I described.

Plus the insurance quote for me as a full driver was two hundred quid less for me in my own right - iirc when I did get a car, I paid something like 640 pounds for insurance.

Wishbone Ash

oscarBravo wrote: »

€75 worth of diesel in a month

Jesus, I'd get through that much diesel in a week!

bobcar61

I think its so unfair this new law

I heard though that it wont include drivers on their 2nd provisional license until it expires...I hope this is trues because I just got my 2nd provisional last wek:D

Wishbone Ash

bobcar61 wrote: »

I heard though that it wont include drivers on their 2nd provisional license until it expires...I hope this is trues because I just got my 2nd provisional last wek:D

No, you may be confusing the issuing of Driving Learner Permits which only come into effect when your current provisional licence expires.

bobcar61

Thats what I thought alright

So even though I wont have a permit for 2 years(hopefully I will have done the test by then) I can still be fined if I dont have a fully licensed driver with me

corktina

couple of points....

a bit heavy on someone who may be inexperianced on a pc and left the caps lock on i think..

i sympathise with someone too nervous OF TESTS to pass test...a real problem for them, but no reason NOT to have to pass a test before driving a dangerous machine. Not the main issue here I think

The delay between applying and taking a test means there is ample time to learn to drive. This issue has been coming for a long time, why the flood of applications today? Because they all had no intention of applying for a test until they were forced to.

The provisional was to facilitate learning to drive, not for going to the pub or to work or taking the kids to school etc..especially not on your own.....now i think that a bit more time should have been allowed, but however long was allowed, you would have still had the same people saying the same things.

This only affects those on 2nd provisionals really.If you made an episode of Father Ted where DOugal was allowed drive on this basis, it would be too far fetched.....If ever there was an issue for the rest of the world to laugh at Ireland, this is it.

finally...just to repeat what Wishbone said
"A young male driver on a provisional licence is 8 times more likely to be killed in a road traffic accident than a middle aged driver on a full licence. "

Easy Rider

Well I decided to speak to the gardai about this, the gard I spoke to said that the anouncement was the first they heard of it and most heard it on the news like everyone else....secondly he said that the computer system is not even programmed to document an L plate offense, he said they are aiming to enforce it in the new year...

This is simply a smoke screen for the government and the nice pay rises they gave themselves, I think most people believe something needs to be done, but not putting any plans in place is a joke......they have had how many years to put something together? And this is the best they can put up with? Yes....well worth the extra money we are going to be paying them....

As I have said before, what is to happen if everyone of those 400,000 people decide to go by the law?

They all decide to get public transport, public transport can't take an extra 10,000 people in Dublin let alone the potential 100,000+....so then this does not only affect people with no full license also people who don't drive can't get into work as the public transport can't take them.....they decide to apply for a driving license but have to wait god know how long now....people can't get to work, economy will be a mess.....yes the rest of Europe are laughing at us......

Ham'nd'egger

E92 wrote: »

Well since all the supposed "safety boffins" think all our woes would be solved if we all just slow down a bit, I feel it is important that people are told the truth.....

From http://ec.europa.eu/research/growth/gcc/projects/in-action-roadsafety.html

Speed has a fatal attraction for many modern motorists, causing needless deaths and injuries. A rough rule of thumb says that for every 1 km/h of excess speed, accidents and injuries will rise by between 2 to 3%. The two-year FP4 MASTER research programme tried to establish acceptable speed limits in given environments, what determined drivers' choice of speed, and the best tools available for forcing motorists to obey limits.

Current European speed limits are broadly similar for built up areas but diverge sharply on rural and secondary roads, where limits can range from 70 to 113 km/h. On motorways, most countries have similar limits but Germany stands out with no limits at all. Research found that almost 80% of drivers flout speed limits.

Nobody doubts your point of Germany's Autobahn's being "safer", but this is the case with all HCDC the world over that they are as well. Nethertheless, it still doesn't allow one to raise speed limits solely on the basis that a roadtype may be "safer" than others. On the last paragraph, our limit of 80KMH on non N roads seems fairly low compared to other states.

In relation to bringing this into topic, it will take a while for figures to filter through, especially with non fatal accidents and offences, but it will be interesting to see how our road stats will look in about 2008 onwards when data is released to us on all these measures.

clally

Calina wrote: »

I'd also add that the cost of the lessons plus taxis trains and buses was significantly less than the cost of running and insuring a car for the 11 months it took me to get a driving test date.

That's all well and good but consider this, last month i managed to get together the money for my car insurance and car tax to the tune of over 1000 euro, that may not seem like a lot of money to a lot of people but as i'm in full time study and work only part time it takes me a month to earn even 800!!! that was huge money to me and now i've found out i'm going to need nearly the equivalent to get around this blasted city! while a car I've just invested another 1,000 euro into will sit at home!

If people had of been forewarned of these new regulations they could have at least acted accordinglingly.

I think provisional licence holders are more than justified in being upset and angry at these regulations. It is not right or just to treat people this way, everyone deserves respect and adequate warning was not too much to ask for.

JohnMc1

If they were serious about implementing this law. They should of started doing the following months ago to ease everyone into it:

1. Cut down on the waiting list for driving tests. 4-8 waiting is fine anything more is a joke.

2. Increase the bus and train services and make the service 24/7. To say as rich as Ireland is that they can't have a bus or train every half hour is a joke. Its @ €27 to ride a train and during the rush hour you can end up standing the whole way. Put some extra buses on the road and trains on the track for God's sake.

SeanW

As a second provisional licenseholder myself I am incensed by this.

I don't object to a clampdown on provisional licenseholders, but to have this much of a clampdown with 4 days notice - while the driver testing service is still a disgrace, and would probably be considered a disgrace in Nigeria - seems to be daft.

I fully agree that provisional licenses/permits should only be used to learn to drive, but on the flip side, a skilled driver should not be unduly delayed converting said documents into full licenses. It goes both ways.

Yet what we have is a situation where nobody knows what the hell is going. The guards didn't know anything about this until Thursday, Gaybo has proven himself to be an ignorant gob****e, Noone seems sure how much the new laws will be enforced and when.

And most of all the Driver Testing Service didn't have a clue either. they couldn't even handle the existing level of demand in any way commensurate with a 1st world countly and that was before the test website crashed under yesterdays firestorm of demand ... needless to say they aren't prepared for the new realities either.

What the hell are these people thinking?

Locamon

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If they were serious about implementing this law. They should of started doing the following months ago to ease everyone into it:

1. Cut down on the waiting list for driving tests. 4-8 waiting is fine anything more is a joke.

2. Increase the bus and train services and make the service 24/7. To say as rich as Ireland is that they can't have a bus or train every half hour is a joke. Its @ €27 to ride a train and during the rush hour you can end up standing the whole way. Put some extra buses on the road and trains on the track for God's sake.

I agree -4 weeks should have been the max waiting time for a test before this was implemented or public transport needs to able to do its job -which we all know it is not.
I can get to work in 10 minutes in a car as opposed to over an hour on public transport -how long will it take now if there are an extra 100,000 minimum using the system. I applied for my test some time ago and was told the waiting time was 10 months. Seemingly this is now 6 months but even that is a disgrace.
Then we hear the minster say you may or may not get done on Tuesday depending on the Garda in question.
This is just a debacle from the minister and if it is implemented will create a lot of hardship for people without any possible remedy in the short term.

Voipjunkie

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Here's a big picture for you Placebo.

300,000 provisional licence holders have not applied for a driving test

The most shocking part of that is that if 300,000 have not applied for a test and you can be waiting up to 43 weeks what will the waiting time be when those 300,000 apply.

Calina

Actually, I wouldn't mind knowing how many have previously failed and a break down of how often.

MrPudding

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The irony of the thing is that Provisional drivers are actually much better drivers [ie. more careful] than fully licensed ones. Taking Provisional drivers off the road will hardly make a difference in cutting the road fatalities.

We seriously need a giant :rolleyes: for posts like this.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

They also need to take Eastern European and other cars that weren't made for Irish road systems off the road. Beyond the obvious of them not being taxed and being re registered they bring them in with with insurance from their countries that are useless here. Also the Eastern Europeans should be made to go through the whole process to get a license [The theory, the Provisional license,the lessons, Road Test,etc] to have an Irish drivers license. Just being from an EU country is not good enough.

As opposed to our own drivers that have not sat a test? Sort out our own drivers first.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

As a Provisional driver I wouldn't care about the new rules if the buses and trains were worthwhile taking. The schedule is antiquated and the fess are a joke [€27 to stand on the train because the Dept of Transport couldn't be bothered to increase service? What a rip-off.]

Years ago I had a job in another town. I had a funny shift pattern, I started at 12 in the afternoon and work through until 12 in the afternoon the next day. By car it was about 20 minutes, by bus it was over an hour. Plus, the only bus that got me there in time for work got me there at 0930 in the morning for a 1200 start. The bus home was 1500hrs. That sucked big time but hey, I had no choice. deal with it.

Stark wrote: »

I think it's more likely that he's too caught up thinking he's God's gift to driving, that he's never taken a good hard look at why he's failing.

That and he's probably cut a tester off the odd morning on the way to work

Nah, I am sure he is god's gift. He probably failed because of the quota. You know they can only pass so many people a month don't you? :rolleyes:

stevoman wrote: »

what about people like myself that are going onto their 4th licenses whilst playing to the tune of the goverment by taking tests and spending big money on lessons?

How long does it take to get to your 4th licence?

Tails142 wrote: »

please, please, please
you dont know me or anything about me. im not here for people like you to make asuptions about me or the way i drive,.

the point im making is its not a good system and the test itself does not merit the problems we are having with road safety

We do know something about you, you have had a provisional licence for years and years and have never passed a test of competency. I know enough about you, thank you very much.

jeffk wrote: »

I done my test three times and got the same pri.k in finglas twice...

I am sure it is a conspiracy against you. I mean Occam's razor and all that....

jeffk wrote: »

The last time i done it i was told i was using the wrong gears,my driving instructor told me which ones to use.

How does the instructor kn ow in advance which gears you should use? My advice would be to use the gear appropriate for the condition you find yourself in.... but then, I am funny like that.

jeffk wrote: »

I was doing it in raheny and down to 30mph(its a 99 car) in most parts because theres cars on each side and you can only fit one car through,i was failed because i went to slow!

Your opinion is obviously that you did not go too slow, unfortunately the examiner, who knows a little more about driving than you do, thinks otherwise.

jeffk wrote: »

Then she was shocked when i told her it was my 3rd fail and told to ask for a supervisor to do your next test!

What difference will this make?

jeffk wrote: »

In my three plus years Ive never crashed

This is genuinely something to be proud of and I hope it continues for you.
In Dublin i know i wouldn't and i know a lot more wouldn't drive recklessly,because insurance is already a rip of and a lot of us save to buy and tweak/do up our cars.So why would we want to wreck them and drive dangerously?[/quote] People generally don't want to drive dangerously. A lot of them do it because they don't know any better.

jeffk wrote: »

The Ole famous line sums it up
Taring people with the one brush!!!!!

Yes. If only there was some way to differentiate between people that can drive and people that can't... Hmmm, there is bound to be something we can do. It can't be hard, can it? We have people that can drive and people that can't... Oh I know, why don't we have a test? We could formulate a test to check if people have the basic skills required to control a vehicle on public roads. We could then ask learner drivers to "sit" the test and prove their skills. What do you guys think? Could it catch on?

Easy Rider wrote: »

I'm an L driver myself and only heard about this on the way home, now I have been working in the same place for the last 7 years, at one time I used to get public transport as I was not far from the city, but due to rising house prices when I decided to buy a place of my own I had to move out further from the City. So it takes me 25 - 40 minutes to get to work in my car.....public transport is 1hr 20 minutes, that is if the bus turns up at all, completely un-reliable ......

No sympathy, see my personal example above.

Easy Rider wrote: »

I got my prov license some time ago....I did not use it at first, I got some lessons etc but could not afford insurance at the time, so I got a car half way through my 2nd prov license, applied for my test with 2 months to go before I got my thrid.....now I am still waiting, must be 8 months for a test....

What is the connection between affording insurance and sitting the test? Is there a requirement to be able to afford insurance to pass the test?

Easy Rider wrote: »

I have no problem with this law if the government got the whole waiting list under control...under these conditions fine

4 Week waiting list, max.....

Have you had your irony bone removed? You have had a provisional licence for 7 years and are whining about waiting times... Unless the waiting time is longer than the period you have been waiting for a test you do not have anything to whine about.

Easy Rider wrote: »

Improve public transport alternatives, or give free public transport for those waiting until the waiting list comes down....

:rolleyes:

Easy Rider wrote: »

There are going to be many people with cars and have paid for insurance that are on prov licenses that are now going to start getting the bus (if so the public transport would not cope anyway)???.....don't think so....all you will see is people taking the L plates down....

It will be interesting to see what happens all right.

Evd-Burner wrote: »

So many people are categorising people its unfair altogether, not everyone is the same...

so its ok to put us into a category but not anybody else... Does nobody see how stupid that is...

How do you suggest we differentiate?

Easy Rider wrote: »

If there going to do this i think that all old people should have a medical test once a year to ensure that they can drive and should have to resit there test immedietly to ensure they can drive...

Young inexperienced and untested drivers are a bigger problem.

dervoc30 wrote: »

I THINK IT IS SO UNFAIR , I AM TOO NERVOUS TO GO AND DO MY DRIVNG TEST , I THINK ANYONE THAT HAS APPLIED SHOULD NOT BE INCLUDE IT SHOULD BE PEOPLE WHO NEVER HAVE BOTHERED TO APPLY AT ALL. AND MOST OF ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY PEOPLE WITH FULL DRIVING LICENSE THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESET THEIR TEST

As other have said, if you are too nervous to sit a simple test why the fcuk should we be happy sharing the road with you?

Locamon wrote: »

I agree -4 weeks should have been the max waiting time for a test before this was implemented or public transport needs to able to do its job -which we all know it is not.
I can get to work in 10 minutes in a car as opposed to over an hour on public transport -how long will it take now if there are an extra 100,000 minimum using the system. I applied for my test some time ago and was told the waiting time was 10 months. Seemingly this is now 6 months but even that is a disgrace.
Then we hear the minster say you may or may not get done on Tuesday depending on the Garda in question.
This is just a debacle from the minister and if it is implemented will create a lot of hardship for people without any possible remedy in the short term.

Get a push bike.

MrP

ardmacha

Well said Mr Pudding

That's all well and good but consider this, last month i managed to get together the money for my car insurance and car tax to the tune of over 1000 euro, that may not seem like a lot of money to a lot of people but as i'm in full time study and work only part time it takes me a month to earn even 800!!! that was huge money to me and now i've found out i'm going to need nearly the equivalent to get around this blasted city!

Sell the car, chuck in the job and spend your time studying and buy a monthly bus ticket, or a bicycle if you prefer. You might do a few driving lessons too and come back to the road in due course.

corktina

I think Mr Pudding just about covered everything there.....

I know its tough for those who have known no better, but it doesnt matter what excuses you have, the test HAS to be passed before anyone is let loose on our roads...for the safety of the rest of us...

..this has been slow in coming but its time is now....get in the queue for a test and get on the road legally. It's up to the Traffic Corps now...

Wishbone Ash

Minister for Transport has just announced that he is postponing the requirement for the 122,000 2nd provisional licence holders from the requirement to be accompanied until 30th June next.

Calina

I assume that means that the 300,000 other provisional licence holders still have to adhere to the new regulations though, right?

trellheim

RTE Breaking News
Sunday, 28 October 2007 13:29

The learner driver rules announced during the week are to be deferred.

Minister Noel Dempsey said on RTÉ's This Week programme that he was deferring the introduction of the accompanied driver provision until 30 June 2008.

The proposed scheme would have meant that motorists on a second provisional driving licence would no longer be able to drive alone from midnight tomorrow.
Advertisement

Under the scheme, motorists on second licences would need to be accompanied by drivers who have held full licences for at least two years.

Speaking on RTE's Marian Finucane programme earlier, Fianna Fáil MEP Eoin Ryan had said he gathered the minister, Noel Dempsey, would announce today that the scheme will not be introduced immediately.

A statement from the Dept of Transport said that from Tuesday next all new applicants for driving licences will be issued with a learner permit.

The rules applying to a new applicant's learner permit will stipulate that:
· The holder must be accompanied by a driver who has had a full licence for at least two years;
· The holder must have the permit for a minimum of 6 months of supervised practice before applying for a test.

From 30 June 2008 all provisional licence holders must be accompanied by a fully licenced driver of at least two years experience.

Like this was never going to happen.


So : Back to Shannon Airport anyone ? or what's the next invented crisis ?

Wishbone Ash

Calina wrote: »

I assume that means that the 300,000 other provisional licence holders still have to adhere to the new regulations though, right?

Yes, that's the way it sounded to me.

(I should add that the above applies to category B 2nd provisional licence holders. Those on a 2nd licence in other categories are still required to be accompanied as normal).

Fuzzy23

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Yes, that's the way it sounded to me.

(I should add that the above applies to category B 2nd provisional licence holders. Those on a 2nd licence in other categories are still required to be accompanied as normal).

This is all such misinformation. If you read the above quote from rte.ie they say the new rules for learner drivers will be deferred... can they by any chance clarify for all the people who dont know whats going on.. the people who will wake up tuesday morning not knowing whats legal and whats not.Im totally in favour of an overhaul of the system.. its a disgrace as it is but the bottom line is give people a time scale.. say in six months this will chance be warned and make other arrangement.. a culture where people learn to drive to pass their test needs to be introduced but not in this way- it only makes the people ignoring the law do it even more.. whos gonna put l plates up now.. the whole thing is shambolic.. all the same i do believe that 2nd provisional drivers shouldnt be allowed drive like they have a full licence-cut the waiting times and maybe people would have a chance... :cool:

Spades

At last, I finally know what the score is. That was a confusing couple of days.Thank God I have my F/L.

The whole thing was handled very badly.

bazzer

What a farce this whole exercise was .... Dempsey, you're a muppet.

Chris_533976

Absolute rubbish, stop pandering to people and introduce this much needed law rework.

BrianD

Dempsey was wrong to make the u-turn. Can't see why, the election is years away though it was probably the independents whittering away.

If he makes a u-turn on something as simple as this which is largely a housekeeping exercise i.e. get people who are on the road and driving properly qualified and documented, what will happen when he has start introducing the tough laws - reducing the blood alcohol level to 50mg where there vested interests opposing him.

I think he's created some confusion in that only parts of the ruleing are deferred. Which parts though?

The response to the provisional issue was typically Irish. It was going to be the end of the world as far as we concerened, just like the smoking ban and the plastic bag tax. Obviously life goes on and we are all the better for it.

Voipjunkie

BrianD wrote: »

Dempsey was wrong to make the u-turn. Can't see why, the election is years away though it was probably the independents whittering away.

If he makes a u-turn on something as simple as this which is largely a housekeeping exercise i.e. get people who are on the road and driving properly qualified and documented, what will happen when he has start introducing the tough laws - reducing the blood alcohol level to 50mg where there vested interests opposing him.

I think he's created some confusion in that only parts of the ruleing are deferred. Which parts though?

The response to the provisional issue was typically Irish. It was going to be the end of the world as far as we concerened, just like the smoking ban and the plastic bag tax. Obviously life goes on and we are all the better for it.

Commonsense at last it is the way it should have been introduced in the first place

1st 3rd and subsequent never had the right to drive alone so nothing has really changed for them people who are on 2nd provisionals did not deserve to have the rug pulled out from under them with just 5 days notice.



And Dempsey is a muppet he makes Martin Cullen look professional

Sam Kade

Did anyone notice when they announced the new law just as Bertie gave himself and his crew a nice pay rise. He managed to draw all the attention away from his pay rise.

Sam Kade

Sam Kade wrote: »

Did anyone notice when they announced the new law just as Bertie gave himself and his crew a nice pay rise. He managed to draw all the attention away from his pay rise.

Yep

Still was it a cock-up or a deliberate diversion.

gazzer

With this new announcement from the minister today does anybody know what will happen with my situation?? I was due to get my 2nd provisional next week. According to the paper only learner permits will be issued and if you have a permit you cant apply for your test for 6 months.

In my situation I failed my first attempt at the test back in May (after 14 months waiting for the test). I reapplied straight away and am still waiting for my test. Does the new rule mean that my test application is null and void and then when I get my permit next week I have to wait 6 months to apply for my test. Or will I get a second provisional licence next week and be able to drive on my own?

ardmacha

And Dempsey is a muppet he makes Martin Cullen look professional

True. In a cabinet of mediocrities he stands out as profoundly incompetent. I am not a great fan of road policing by the Gardai, but to have Dempsey go on radio and say that provisional licence holders feared being prosecuted, as if this was somehow unreasonable given that he was running ads in the paper saying that L driving rules would be enforced. He seemed to imply that Gardai should ignore a law when a special effort was being made to publicise this law in the media!

The June deadline is also a joke. Second licence holders with a genuine problem should have been able to make a case for an expedited test and a shorter deadline should have been introduced, e.g. 1 Jan. Most second licence holders won't lose their job etc and should not be given any concession beyond this.

Finally every effort should be made to make clear that L drivers will not be allowed on motorways and that Gardai will investigate the status of provisional licence holders at regular checkpoints etc, and that only 2nd licence holders will get the concession. If this country is to get serious about road safety the new permit holders must be strictly held to their rules.

Wishbone Ash

gazzer wrote: »

I was due to get my 2nd provisional next week. According to the paper only learner permits will be issued and if you have a permit you cant apply for your test for 6 months

That refers to those who are on their 1st permit (i.e. those who have not held a provisional licence previously).

gazzer wrote:

Does the new rule mean that my test application is null and void and then when I get my permit next week I have to wait 6 months to apply for my test

No.

gazzer wrote:

will I get a second provisional licence next week and be able to drive on my own?

AFAIK, the announcement made by the minister today refers to "existing" 2nd provisional licence holders but I'm open to correction

Zoney

ardmacha wrote: »

Finally every effort should be made to make clear that L drivers will not be allowed on motorways and that Gardai will investigate the status of provisional licence holders at regular checkpoints etc, and that only 2nd licence holders will get the concession. If this country is to get serious about road safety the new permit holders must be strictly held to their rules.

Imagine if the guards did set up checkpoints for provisional drivers on the M50 or outside Universities.

It is really pathetic that we have laws in this country that it is accepted that they aren't enforced.

tomED

stevoman wrote: »

tomED wrote: »

Anyway - my 2 cents is - anyone that fails their driving test (even once) shouldn't be on the road by themselves. No ifs or buts. Someone that fails it 4 times - shouldn't be on the road without someone driving them.

QUOTE]


just as well your 2 cents is worth f*** all then

Well more to the point, it's just as well drivers that can't pass after 4 tries, will finally be dealt with.........

Red Alert

I have failed the test four times, yet have been told by two most recent testers that I am a very safe driver.

I had done lessons when I got my first provisional, and have had plenty of experience out on the road accompanied. However it was almost three years later that I actually sat my first test. I had little preparation before it and a fail was quite plain.

Second time round I had a very bad case of nerves and did a woeful job.

Third time round I had nearly done it with only a couple of grade 2 faults, before I made a mistake in the carpark of the test centre earning a grade 3.

The fourth time I did what I thought was a good test, in terms of the preparation, driving on the day and the attitude. I failed this time on 9 grade 2 - which my instructor said was down to what she called 'bad luck with the tester you got'.

As a result of all four of these I'm still an 'L' driver, but I've every desire to site the test again and pass it by sorting out the remaining problems in my driving. Does the previous poster think I should never be allowed improve & sit the test again in a reasonable timeframe?

cyclopath2001

From RTE:

The Chief Executive of the Driving Instructors Register said he does not believe it is possible for all drivers currently on a second provisional licence to pass their driving tests by next June.

Yesterday, the Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey announced the new road safety regulation affecting drivers will not come into effect until the end of June, to make sure that the 122,000 people affected have plenty of notice to apply for and sit their test.

On RTÉ's News At One, Des Cummins said the failure rate of approximately 50% should have been taken into consideration, and he said there was now likely to be an surge in driving test applications.

Hopefully, they won't dumb-down the already simple driving test just to meet the new deadline. They should at least insist that starting next month, everyone sitting the test can show they've had a minimum level of instruction from a quailified instructor. Otherwise they're likely to be wasting the tester's time.

cyclopath2001

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

From RTE:

Hopefully, they won't dumb-down the already simple driving test just to meet the new deadline. They should at least insist that starting next month, everyone sitting the test can show they've had a minimum level of instruction from a quailified instructor. Otherwise they're likely to be wasting the tester's time.

A little note from teacher!

If you can get the waiting list down to a managable level, then learners would only need to apply when their instructors think they are ready.

BrianD

Zoney wrote: »

Imagine if the guards did set up checkpoints for provisional drivers on the M50 or outside Universities.

It is really pathetic that we have laws in this country that it is accepted that they aren't enforced.

Irrespective of the Ministers decision, L drivers and provisional holders are still barred from using the M50 or other motorways. Though with the confusion surrounding this issue I wouldn't be surprised if L drivers think they have an amnesty. Having said that my dad so an L driver being pulled on the M50 this adternoon.

For once I agree with Conor Faughnan, the minister should have left well enough alone. As of tomorrow you can't get a provisional licence of any form so it the game was up within 12 mths for all Provisional holders.

Alternatively, the insurance industry could show a bit of spine. For years they've been telling us about the expensive risk that Irish drivers are. WIthdraw cover from provisional holders tomorrow and that will sort the issue out pronto - faster than the minister I dare say.

E92

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Hopefully, they won't dumb-down the already simple driving test just to meet the new deadline. They should at least insist that starting next month, everyone sitting the test can show they've had a minimum level of instruction from a quailified instructor. Otherwise they're likely to be wasting the tester's time.

The RSA say that they are 'bumping up' capacity to 6,000 tests per week. Given that there are presently 420,000 people on a provisional licence, this means that you will be waiting 70, yes 70 weeks if everyone applies(and they presumably will now that they're going to enforce this new rule) and passes .... since 1 in 2 fail this means that in effect you will be left waiting 140 weeks, that is 2 years and 36 weeks i.e 2 years and 8-9 months.

And if the test is that easy, why do only 50% pass?

Stark

E92 wrote:

And if the test is that easy, why do only 50% pass?

I would imagine nerves in a lot of people's cases. I know was extremely nervous doing my tests. This could be alleviated through a bit of people skills, maybe a smile or a handshake or something on the tester's part, but not through dumbing down the test.

In other people's cases, it's simply a case of inadequate preparation. I know a lot of people who don't bother spending money on pre-test lessons because they know they can drive straight out of the test centre after failing, and in many cases are too stubborn to let go of their bad habits.

Wishbone Ash

BrianD wrote: »

As of tomorrow you can't get a provisional licence of any form so it the game was up within 12 mths for all Provisional holders

Within 24 months!