The yearly update..

johnny_ultimate

So Pro Evo 2008 has hit, which I always find a little annoying, as it means the only month or two of the year when my brother actually decides to play a game and take up the TV during my valuable (well, less than valuable) gaming time.

Im no expert on the series by any stretch (I am perhaps the person most apathetic towards sport you will ever meet) but it seems confusing to me that people will buy a game every year without fail, with what only seems like minor differences to an untrained eye (OK, Im setting myself up for trouble with that game).

Tony Hawks is an example Im perhaps more capable to comment on. As a big fan from games 2-4, I always looked foward to the update as it promised massive gameplay changes. Between 2 and 3 for example, we had not only a generational leap from PS1 to 2, but also the ability to link aerial and other moves with the revert - this gave new depth to the formula. However, even between 3 and 4, the leap wasn't massive, and from Underground onwards, the yearly update damaged the series more than actually adding to it.

What are peoples opinions on the matter? Do you buy any yearly updates, and do they actually make enough of a difference to the established formula to make them a worthwhile annual buy?

sprinkles

typically the games that are released on a yearly basis (sports games) are played to death during the year - after a while they become stale - the faults become glaring and you wish they would resolve them. They need regular updates imo - not just to update the new years stats/player/teams etc but to resolve all the gripes.

I only buy PES on an annual basis and in fairness €60 a year is not bad considering the amount of hours put into it. PES 6 had some big faults - enjoyable to play but after a few months the faults really started to annoy and you began to look forward to the next one....

It's a money spinner I grant you and I only agree with it if, and it's a big if, they have changed the game sufficiently to make it a better/different experience... thankfully with PES that happens. Not so sure with Tiger/Fifa/EA Hockey/Football Manager/2K games etc..

grimm2005

you'd think theyd fix those faults in the first place rather than leaving them to be fixed next year (thats if it wasnt a big money making scheme)

johnny_ultimate

grimm2005 wrote: »

you'd think theyd fix those faults in the first place rather than leaving them to be fixed next year (thats if it wasnt a big money making scheme)

This would be my opinion too. Surely it makes more sense (not financially speaking of course) to wait TWO years and rather than have a game that fixes some of the faults, have a game that fixes ALL of the faults.

A friend just mentioned that the 360 version of PES2008 is disapointing, as it doesn't feel particularly 'next-gen'. It seems weird that this is their second chance, and they still haven't taken full advantage of the not-new-anymore technology. Can this be attributed to just money-grabbing tactics, in which a tight release date is a replacement for actual innovation?

Rhyme

They are printing money.

Sprinkles has it right though, play a game based on reality enough and the little problems begin to surface after a few months of frequent play. This still doesn't excuse some companies from updating the respective games participants, addressing one or two problems and tacking on a new feature and call it a new game.

They're in this market to make money and i'm sure EA is laughing while they release 'Roster Update 08' to the people who will purchase it regardless.

In fact, was on the bus a week ago (27a if you're interested) and the conversation in the row in front of me involved the new Fifa game. All three of the guys involved were going to purchase it (and one of them a new console to play it on) solely because Irish teams are in it. *Shrug*

Slutmonkey57b

People who buy these games are Sports Fans.
And Sports Fans are morons.
Proof you say?
The Soccer forum, and buying EA sports titles as above.

Tusky

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

People who buy these games are Sports Fans.
And Sports Fans are morons.
Proof you say?
The Soccer forum, and buying EA sports titles as above.

What a twatty generalisation. No doubt you are a bitter fat nerd who feels the need to lash out at sports fans to make you feel better about your physical inadequacies.

In regards to the thread, I dont see what the problem is. Buy the title every two years if you dont like yearly updates. They are completely necisary in sports games though. Its true that the developers can be lazy but you dont HAVE to buy the game.

sprinkles

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

People who buy these games are Sports Fans.
And Sports Fans are morons.
Proof you say?
The Soccer forum, and buying EA sports titles as above.

Wow. Sports fans are morons. Well I say you are a moron for thinking that, let alone posting it.

L31mr0d

How hard do you think it would be for the developers to, say, allow for downloadable updates to their sports games to switch the players around and apply new skins. But they don't because they know sports fans are going to buy the update just to have the player names correct on their team. Usually the update features very little in actual gameplay or graphical updates, yet sports fans will fork out the exact same amount of money for the exact same game they bought last year with only some character names added and stats altered. There isn't even any story to sports games that would almost make the purchase acceptable. This is a stupid waste of money imo. In no other genre of gaming would this be acceptable.

Also Tusky, there is a big difference between a sports "FAN" and a sports "PLAYER". You will see as many fat, overweight sports fan as bitter nerds, as their primary passion is sitting on their ass, drinking beer, watching other people play the sports or playing computer games of characters playing the sport.

sprinkles

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. The yearly update changes more than just names and jerseys - or at least should. The yearly PES updates generally change the way you play the game and you can find that you are very good at one edition but utterly lost the next year. That is more than just the names - which by the way I don't think really matter anyway for most PES fans as it doesn't have all the kits/players names.

Sports games can not be compared to ordinary story based games. Of course there's no plot and thus I think it's ludicrous to be making that point! Sports games are constantly yearning for perfection - to recreate the fun/realistic feeling that you get from watching your favorite team.

I for one wouldn't notice the changes in NBA 06 to 07 to 08 but I'm not a basketball fan. Same as a non soccer fan might not notice the changes from PES 6 to 2008. There's subtlty in it that can only be realised when you turn around to go back to the previous versions. Then you really appreciate the difference.

Again though I would stress that the update must be worthy of being called an "update" - meaning more than just the names/kits. And as for your point about downloadable updates - these are available for a number of sports games on the pc and they don't change the feel of the game or how the game is played. There's no gameplay patch!

super_furry

Yeah, but the fundamental problem with Pro Evolition is that it didn't need fixing. The game was damn near perfect so in order to justify the yearly updates they had to make changes to things that didn't need changing. This year they've needlessly increased the pace of the game which leaves it playing more like pinball than football and taken away all the slow and methodical build-up play that made the game stand out in the first place. They changed things that should have been left alone in order to justify a new release.

Vikings

sprinkles wrote: »

typically the games that are released on a yearly basis (sports games) are played to death during the year

Just wanted to expand a bit on this.


From my side of things, i've been buying the new Madden game every year since 2001 on the PS2, I even bought the same game for the Xbox 360 that I already had on the PS2!

Madden is released every year without fail and im sure it looks like just another roster update to those who do not play it. But there are other reasons for bringing out games every year.

Take someone who would play the game regularly, couple of hundred games each year before the next version is released... over those few hundred (thousand) games that they play, every little discrepancy between that game and either competitors games, previous versions of the game and real life shines through and by the end of the year playing it the developers have promised the next best thing in Madden 20XX+1.

When playing a game regularly, what might seem like a small update to others will come as a lifesend to those who regularly play it.

As the OP said himself, he can see the updates in the games which he plays. I can see them in the games I play, its people who dont play the games who complain about it. And to be brutally honest, if you dont play these games then why is there a reason to complain?

Fnz

johnny_ultimate wrote:

I am perhaps the person most apathetic towards sport you will ever meet

That sounds like a challenge!

To me, it does seem ludicrous that the developers can get away with churning out updates in the guise of a full-priced game every year. But, as I have zero interest in team based sport video games, like football, I can't really comment with any degree of validity.... I have no idea how much work goes into making these updates. I presume it must be a lot - if one company rests on its laurels then the competition may dominate the following 'holiday season'. I'd like to believe that people buy the update for more than cosmetic differences. Things such as pacing of the game and refinements to the way the players 'handle' must surely be revised. I'm not going to hold my breath for multi-ball bonus round gameplay advancements in future PES games so, I imagine, the genre will continue to appear stale and boring to 'outsiders' going forward.

sprinkles wrote: »

Sports games can not be compared to ordinary story based games. Of course there's no plot and thus I think it's ludicrous to be making that point!

+1

Tusky

L31mr0d wrote: »

How hard do you think it would be for the developers to, say, allow for downloadable updates to their sports games to switch the players around and apply new skins. But they don't because they know sports fans are going to buy the update just to have the player names correct on their team. Usually the update features very little in actual gameplay or graphical updates, yet sports fans will fork out the exact same amount of money for the exact same game they bought last year with only some character names added and stats altered. There isn't even any story to sports games that would almost make the purchase acceptable. This is a stupid waste of money imo. In no other genre of gaming would this be acceptable.

Also Tusky, there is a big difference between a sports "FAN" and a sports "PLAYER". You will see as many fat, overweight sports fan as bitter nerds, as their primary passion is sitting on their ass, drinking beer, watching other people play the sports or playing computer games of characters playing the sport.

Yeah but its business. They are in it to make money. You can switch the players around yourself in edit mode if you dont want to buy the new game. I look forward to each new installment of Pro Evolution Soccer as much as I look forward to any other game and I play games across almost every genre.

I dunno...Most sports fans that I know either play the sport they are a fan of or used to play it. Alot of my friends play pro evo and the vast majority play football. I honestly dont know any fat lazy sports fans.

Slutmonkey57b

Tusky wrote: »

What a twatty generalisation. No doubt you are a bitter fat nerd who feels the need to lash out at sports fans to make you feel better about your physical inadequacies.

Your Internet Glasses are working perfectly I see. I'm not at all fat, and I see no reason to be "bitter" about people who are interested in sports - for me to be bitter, I'd have to want to play sports but be denied somehow. Sports to me are just plain boring for the most part.
In relation to the generalisation, please explain to me how citing the Soccer forum as proof of sports fan's moronic nature doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's the only forum on the whole site where you have to be nominated, investigated, and approved before you can post. Why? because of so much utterly psychotic muppetry from the football fans.

In regards to the thread, I dont see what the problem is. Buy the title every two years if you dont like yearly updates. They are completely necisary in sports games though. Its true that the developers can be lazy but you dont HAVE to buy the game.

And the fact that the sports fans do buy the games just because the team rosters are updated, proves they are morons. Just like spending €60+ on a replica shirt that changes every year or every time a player changes number. There's no reason why the shirts change design every year, other than to sell more shirts to shirt-buying morons. Anybody who wasn't a moron would see they're being taken for a ride and stop buying the shirts, but noo.....

Grimebox

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Your Internet Glasses are working perfectly I see. I'm not at all fat, and I see no reason to be "bitter" about people who are interested in sports - for me to be bitter, I'd have to want to play sports but be denied somehow. Sports to me are just plain boring for the most part.
In relation to the generalisation, please explain to me how citing the Soccer forum as proof of sports fan's moronic nature doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's the only forum on the whole site where you have to be nominated, investigated, and approved before you can post. Why? because of so much utterly psychotic muppetry from the football fans.



And the fact that the sports fans do buy the games just because the team rosters are updated, proves they are morons. Just like spending €60+ on a replica shirt that changes every year or every time a player changes number. There's no reason why the shirts change design every year, other than to sell more shirts to shirt-buying morons. Anybody who wasn't a moron would see they're being taken for a ride and stop buying the shirts, but noo.....

I lolled anyway. What a cliche! your username is the cherry on top