New L Legislation - Points??!!

C_Breeze

Was just reading up on the whole new L legislation for a laugh.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-1203968.html

and came accross this "The accompanying driver must carry their driving licence. Failure to comply will be a penalty point offence for the accompanying driver"


So lets say I have mates who have not bothered getting their arse into gear and have not gotten or even applied for a full licence yet, thats not my business and if they risk driving around so be it ... Now ... if im in my mates car as a passanger and he gets stopped at a checkpoint , youre telling me ill get a point for not having my licence on me even though im a passeneger!!!!" (i keep my licence in my own car at all time)

Thats F***g ridiculous

Spud83

C_Breeze wrote: »

Was just reading up on the whole new L legislation for a laugh.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-1203968.html

and came accross this "The accompanying driver must carry their driving licence. Failure to comply will be a penalty point offence for the accompanying driver"


So lets say I have mates who have not bothered getting their arse into gear and have not gotten or even applied for a full licence yet, thats not my business and if they risk driving around so be it ... Now ... if im in my mates car as a passanger and he gets stopped at a checkpoint , youre telling me ill get a point for not having my licence on me even though im a passeneger!!!!" (i keep my licence in my own car at all time)

Thats F***g ridiculous

Surely its only if nominate yourself as the accompanying driver.

fletch

Yeh that does seem a bit stupid alright! Is it thus everyones responsibility to check that the driver of the car they are a passenger in, is a fully licenced driver, or not as the case may be???

Sully

Its up to the driver to check. It then should be the driver who gets the points.

Some of this legislation is plain stupid. Tho, the bulk of which I agree with.

C_Breeze

Its almost as if they are forcing any full licenced driver to act as a nominated driver.

What if im drunk in town on a Friday night and one of my L mates drives by and picks me up, will i get done then aswell. - because thats what it seems to imply


This is just plain ridiculous!


Its my F'n choice if i want to act as an "accompanying full licenced driver" or not.

F***ing commies

oleras

C_Breeze wrote: »

Its almost as if they are forcing any full licenced driver to act as a nominated driver.

What if im drunk in town on a Friday night and one of my L mates drives by and picks me up, will i get done then aswell. - because thats what it seems to imply


This is just plain ridiculous!


Its my F'n choice if i want to act as an "accompanying full licenced driver" or not.

F***ing commies

If you are drunk how could you be a responsible accompanying full licenced driver, i think the idea is to have someone who can offer advice, not sleep in the passanger seat.

Devils advocate here !!!

TommyT

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1026/roadsafety.html

lafors

C_Breeze wrote: »

Its almost as if they are forcing any full licenced driver to act as a nominated driver.

What if im drunk in town on a Friday night and one of my L mates drives by and picks me up, will i get done then aswell. - because thats what it seems to imply


This is just plain ridiculous!


Its my F'n choice if i want to act as an "accompanying full licenced driver" or not.

F***ing commies

How is it ridiculous? If your mate who collects you is on a provo and you know, well then you know he shouldn't be driving on his own and you know you shouldn't take the lift. Take a bus/taxi.

I don't get why people are making such a big deal about it.
Its been the same for ages just never implememted.
What should really happen is the insurance companies should say if you don't obey you're not insured, will stop it immediately. Cruel but if they want it to work, then that'll do it.

In fairness though, I don't think L drivers are that much of a problem. I'd love to see the statistics for fatal traffic accidents, I doubt there aren't many which involve a L driver. Most I'd expect are due to speed/drink/drugs.

omega man

oleras wrote: »

If you are drunk how could you be a responsible accompanying full licenced driver, i think the idea is to have someone who can offer advice, not sleep in the passanger seat.

Devils advocate here !!!

Spot on. They arent there for the drive, its kind of an observer or instructor type role.

C_Breeze

The point is it should be my decision whether i wish to act as an "accopanying full licence driver" or not.

Just becuase i have a full licence and im in the car with a L driver , why should i be obliged to act as an instructer. If i wanna fall asleep or stare out the widow without saying a word ITS MY CHOICE , why shoudl a guarda be able to put 1 point on my licence , just becuase im a passenegr in a car and i dont have my licence with me.

Do you not see the point im making here

peasant

just sit in the back

Spud83

Not every passenger in the car is the an "accompanying driver". Surely this is a role you can either choose to accept or not, if your mate gets pulled and he says you told him that you would act as the accompanying driver then you get points, if your mate says sorry I'm driving without an accompanied driver then you dont get points.

zenith

Academic now, Govt has backpedalled ... at least for the time being.

Sully

Its still set for Monday night - despite claims.

Its just not going to be a widespread ban - the guards will hear your reasons and decide whether to caution or let you go.

antodeco

C_Breeze wrote: »

The point is it should be my decision whether i wish to act as an "accopanying full licence driver" or not.

Just becuase i have a full licence and im in the car with a L driver , why should i be obliged to act as an instructer. If i wanna fall asleep or stare out the widow without saying a word ITS MY CHOICE , why shoudl a guarda be able to put 1 point on my licence , just becuase im a passenegr in a car and i dont have my licence with me.

Do you not see the point im making here

Surely you can just tell them you cant drive, and you dont have a licence?!

Anyways: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhmhmhideyau

coolmoose

gardai have said they will implement the law as it stands from midnight on monday...major crossed wires between rsa/govt and gardai by the looks of it!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1026/roadsafety.html

faceman

C_Breeze wrote: »

Its almost as if they are forcing any full licenced driver to act as a nominated driver.

Its my F'n choice if i want to act as an "accompanying full licenced driver" or not.

The idea is that if you have passed your test, you should know better. I dont really see the issue with it.

Phoole

What if there are 3 passengers in the car, all fully licensed drivers, but each of them left their licenses at home. Will they have to split the penalty point between them??? A third of a point each!

faceman

^ i think it will be .333333333333333333333333333333333333333

Jo King

oleras wrote: »

If you are drunk how could you be a responsible accompanying full licenced driver, i think the idea is to have someone who can offer advice, not sleep in the passanger seat.

Devils advocate here !!!

If you are a supervising driver you are deemed to be in control of the car. If so you can be charged with being in control of a car while over the limit. It is a question of fact whether or not a person is the supervising driver. Sitting beside the driver in the passenger seat of a car with L plates would indicate a supervising driver. Sitting in the back seat of a car with no L plates would probably not indicate a supervising driver.

Esel

Jo King wrote: »

If you are a supervising driver you are deemed to be in control of the car.

Can you give a cite for this?

68 lost souls

From what I understand each provisional driver must nominate a driver to be their fully liceneced drvier on the issuing of their provisional and that one person must be in the car with them at all time sunless it is during a lesson?

PixelTrawler

Is this aspect of the strategy either
a) In force yet
b) One of the proposed ideas that may never come about

According to the RSA strategy it is as yet a proposal but I can not find anywhere if this is being enforced

This is one aspect of the law i feel is over the top. I have a full licence only 6 months but I can get points for sitting in a mates car who has an L plate?! This is a crazy.

Fine I accept the arguement i have a full licence, I should know the rules etc etc but there will be cases where you will hop into a car and not know ur mate (or person, maybe you dont know them that well) only has a provisional - after all theres plenty of people with no L plates.

Does this mean every time now you sit into a car you must check the drivers licence. Its the nanny state going a bit to far there. We all check on each other now??

"Excuse me, do you mind before I accept this lift, may I check your licence?" :eek:

And the idea that the supervisor driver is somehow in control of the car is nonsense, all they can do is either give advice or warning - after all its not like the car has dual controls like a instructor car does.

And surely someone on a full licence is competent enough to at least give advice and warnings...

Surely its a case that the driver must directly ask you to be the accompanying driver and you must accept the role. If you dont accept the role then dont take the lift.

If the driver does not make you aware they are on an L, I cant see why you as a passanger should get points. If anything the L drive should get a heftier fine for not notifying their passanger.

In other words the responsibility should be on the driver to check with the passanger and not the other way around.

wet-paint

The main thing I'm not seeing though, is any announcement from the gardai about extra checkpoints.

I've been driving a year now, gone through three checkpoints, and never stopped. I haven't heard that there are going to be any additional checks, but the standard amount of checkpoints for tax/insurance, and now for provo licenses. I'm fairly confident there won't be many or indeed any more checks. THere isn't an influx of extra gardai to go looking for all these drivers, so it should be the same amount of checks.
Sweet.

eringobragh

wet-paint wrote: »

The main thing I'm not seeing though, is any announcement from the gardai about extra checkpoints.

I've been driving a year now, gone through three checkpoints, and never stopped. I haven't heard that there are going to be any additional checks, but the standard amount of checkpoints for tax/insurance, and now for provo licenses. I'm fairly confident there won't be many or indeed any more checks. THere isn't an influx of extra gardai to go looking for all these drivers, so it should be the same amount of checks.
Sweet.

You only have to be unlucky once!

deman

Here in Finland, the learner driver has one nominated driver and nobody else can take their place (except for a driving instructor/tester). That nominated driver most also take a test in order to be deemed a suitable "teacher". And the car MUST have dual controls.

Now to those who are complaining about the new implementations, who've still got it easy and less of your whining.

maidhc

Jo King wrote: »

If you are a supervising driver you are deemed to be in control of the car. If so you can be charged with being in control of a car while over the limit. It is a question of fact whether or not a person is the supervising driver. Sitting beside the driver in the passenger seat of a car with L plates would indicate a supervising driver. Sitting in the back seat of a car with no L plates would probably not indicate a supervising driver.

I assume (and I could be wrong) that if the supervising driver is over the limit, he will just be deemed NOT to be a supervising driver. There is a huge difference between someone with 10 pints asleep in the passenger seat and a person with 10 pints on board behind a steering wheel.

I am aware of the definition of "being in control", and if someone else holds the keys, the passenger can hardly be considered to be any more than a moral influence over the direction in which the car may go.

cruachan7

deman wrote: »

Here in Finland, the learner driver has one nominated driver and nobody else can take their place (except for a driving instructor/tester). That nominated driver most also take a test in order to be deemed a suitable "teacher". And the car MUST have dual controls.

Now to those who are complaining about the new implementations, who've still got it easy and less of your whining.

Hmmm, if that had always been the case in ireland - fair enough, we would not have had a chance to get ourselves in the position we are in. The goverment here have allowed this situation to develop. I agree it needs to be sorted...but in time, not overnight, that is impossible.

Jo King

maidhc wrote: »

I assume (and I could be wrong) that if the supervising driver is over the limit, he will just be deemed NOT to be a supervising driver. There is a huge difference between someone with 10 pints asleep in the passenger seat and a person with 10 pints on board behind a steering wheel.

I am aware of the definition of "being in control", and if someone else holds the keys, the passenger can hardly be considered to be any more than a moral influence over the direction in which the car may go.

A provisional licence driver is not supposed to carry a passenger unless that passenger is a supervising driver. If there are L plates on the car the passenger will have to supervise if he wants a lift. Section 50 of the Road Traffic Act creates the offence of "drunk in charge". The question arises as to whether the supervising driver is deemed to have the intention of driving the car. Is he driving by proxy and thus committing an offence under S49?
The best way for the supervisor to cover himself is to make sure that there are no L plates on the car and take the drivers licence. If the car is stopped the driver can undertake to produce his licence within 10 days. If he has his L plates on when he goes to produce his licence there is a chance he will get away with it.

maidhc

Jo King wrote: »

Is he driving by proxy and thus committing an offence under S49?

That would be taking the mick out of the drink driving laws to be honest. S50 covers the poor souls who are too pissed to actually succeed in their attempt to drive (or those who decide to sleep it off in the car with a key in their posession!). :rolleyes:

Stark

Jo King wrote:

A provisional licence driver is not supposed to carry a passenger unless that passenger is a supervising driver.

Where did this law come from? I've never seen it.

Jo King wrote:

The best way for the supervisor to cover himself is to make sure that there are no L plates on the car and take the drivers licence. If the car is stopped the driver can undertake to produce his licence within 10 days. If he has his L plates on when he goes to produce his licence there is a chance he will get away with it.

What if I was in a car with an L-driver and I don't have my license? Could I just say I don't have a license and get away with it? What happens if the passenger genuinely doesn't have a license? Do they get points on their ghost license? What if there's more than one person in the car as stated previously?

Stupid law imo. It should be the driver's responsibility to make sure they have an accompanying driver with the proper license, not the other way round.

maidhc wrote:

S50 covers the poor souls who are too pissed to actually succeed in their attempt to drive

Aww poor them. It's like armed robbers who forget to bring bullets, I always feel sorry for them.