No receipt given by therapist

antoinolachtnai

Let's not name anyone if we can avoid it.

I really think you have to take some time and discuss this with your analyst as you suggest. This is maybe me getting analytic myself, but maybe underlying your concern about receipts is a deeper concern about the cost and whether it is worthwhile. Worth talking frankly to your analyst about, I think.

IncredibleHulk

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Let's not name anyone if we can avoid it.

I really think you have to take some time and discuss this with your analyst as you suggest. This is maybe me getting analytic myself, but maybe underlying your concern about receipts is a deeper concern about the cost and whether it is worthwhile. Worth talking frankly to your analyst about, I think.

By all means talk to the analyst

"but maybe underlying your concern about receipts is a deeper concern about the cost and whether it is worthwhile."

And maybe the analyst is abusing the power of the client/therapist relationship where the therapist can define reality to be always right? No matter what way a client raises an issue it is defined within the parameters of the therapist's beliefs. Don't want to put you off OP but I would be careful

antoinolachtnai

Yup could be, but I am just trying to be optimistic. The OP should definitely read the Irish Times coverage of the practices of a particular counselling centre.

eth0_

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

This is maybe me getting analytic myself, but maybe underlying your concern about receipts is a deeper concern about the cost and whether it is worthwhile. Worth talking frankly to your analyst about, I think.

Maybe you shouldn't make such ridiculous assumptions!
Whatever his reason, he is entitled to a receipt and it would seem everyone else on this thread can understand that reasoning except you. Some health insurers allow for psychotherapy, or on the other hand maybe the OP is just feeling rightly suspicious that they refused him a receipt when he asked!

IncredibleHulk

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Irish Times coverage of the practices of a particular counselling centre.

Have you a link. Very suspicious of therapists no real body over them all self policing like the garda...........

antoinolachtnai

Here's coverage from that other national paper of record.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2688&Itemid=38

eth0: I didn't make any assumptions. Other people are making assumptions (that receipt giving in a universal practice), not me.

alanceltic

Originally Posted by alanceltic
Im not too sure on the receipt issue being a legal requirement (my hunch is that it is not), as for the vat element of the receipt i know for sure that a retailer/service provider is not required under the current legislation to detail either the vat rate or the vat amount charged on the receipt, as per a previous poster "proper books of account" are required so you are incorrect in your post

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

What are you talking aboiut "current legislation"?, you do not know what you're talking about, and giving wronmg advice. Also proper books has nothing whatsoever to do with receipts.

I repeat if a consumer requests a receipt, the vendor must provide one, if the consumer requests a VAT receipt, then the relevant VAT details must be provided. I cannot imagine what circumstance a vendor would refuse a receipt, to do so would be a breach of the law aside from being a highly unusual but damaging to business as well.

Hate to go off topic OP so apologies... Sonnenbluemen IF you care to read my original post it stated that I wasnt sure that there is a legal requirement to produce a receipt and I stand by this, I DID state that if a receipt is issued it does not have to have a vat breakdown and the current legislation I reference is the current VAT legislation to which there are many parts and amendments. "Proper books off account" is the term revenue & auditing practioners use for keeping correct book-keeping records and receipts are invariably a by product of this and where receipts are issued they DO NOT have to have a vat breakdown - they do have to have the vat registration number detailed however, you are probably getting an invoice mixed up with a vat receipt but that is understandable given ur ignorance. Also what qualifies me to offer such advice is that I work as an accountant for a retail company and have experience in this specific area - so much for your rant on not knowing what i am talking about and offering ill informed advice!! mabey you will qualify your experience before you shoot others down with your ill-informed advice. Again apologies to the OP on the off topic rant

IncredibleHulk

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Here's coverage from that other national paper of record.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2688&Itemid=38

QUOTE]

Thanks for that antoinolachtnai

Sonnenblumen

alanceltic wrote: »

Originally Posted by alanceltic
Im not too sure on the receipt issue being a legal requirement (my hunch is that it is not), as for the vat element of the receipt i know for sure that a retailer/service provider is not required under the current legislation to detail either the vat rate or the vat amount charged on the receipt, as per a previous poster "proper books of account" are required so you are incorrect in your post




Hate to go off topic OP so apologies... Sonnenbluemen IF you care to read my original post it stated that I wasnt sure that there is a legal requirement to produce a receipt and I stand by this, I DID state that if a receipt is issued it does not have to have a vat breakdown and the current legislation I reference is the current VAT legislation to which there are many parts and amendments. "Proper books off account" is the term revenue & auditing practioners use for keeping correct book-keeping records and receipts are invariably a by product of this and where receipts are issued they DO NOT have to have a vat breakdown - they do have to have the vat registration number detailed however, you are probably getting an invoice mixed up with a vat receipt but that is understandable given ur ignorance. Also what qualifies me to offer such advice is that I work as an accountant for a retail company and have experience in this specific area - so much for your rant on not knowing what i am talking about and offering ill informed advice!! mabey you will qualify your experience before you shoot others down with your ill-informed advice. Again apologies to the OP on the off topic rant

It doesn't surprise me that a bean counter would be confused by VAT Invoice and VAT receipt, most never have issued one but you'd expect the more competent bean counters to be familiar with both. There are standard receipts and VAT receipts. Discover the differences for yourself.

Next time you need to buy petrol, request a VAT receipt and take a look at the receipt and note the details. At least then you'll learn something.

I'm not sure about your experience or its relevance but daily we handle (issue and demand) VAT receipts. Looks like the corner shop is still behind, but why am I not surprised.

After familiarising yourself with VAT receipts remember the differences. Less beans and more spelling would be no harm either.

cgarvey

foggy_lad / Sonnenblumen .. any chance of a reference for this legal requirement, as Antoin has asked (and researched)?

SerialComplaint

People are over-complicating this. The therapist isn't declaring this income, just like your typical plumber or brickie doing a nixer, and doesn't want a paper trail that could catch him out.

I'd start paying by cheque, as this will send a message that they can't mess you around. If things get nasty, just shop the therapist to Revenue.

Infoseeker

I don't want to shop anyone in. I would just stop going to see my therapist if this continued. The problem to issue receipts seems to lie with the practice itself. This annoys me because it should be a regulation that all clients are automatically given a receipt as a matter of course. No need to ever have to ask for one. And therefore the government should play their part in making this a law.

cbtbear

Well i'm a therapist and most people do not ask for receipts. If they did I'd hand write one to them. A check is a better way for you to document payment if that is indeed the issue. It seems to me that you have trust issues with your therapist and, therefore, might want, only on that basis, to either address this trust issue (probably beyound receipts) or find anohter therapist.

Also, some people do therapy on the side away from their day job. It does not make them less qualified nor does it mean they are necessarily doing anything wrong. Additionally, it costs quite a lot to rent rooms to use (usually by the hour, i pay more than 25 plus vat just for the room), malpractice insurance, travel and yes tax. So the 60 you are paying is like getting paid 20 euro an hour, not really a lot of money although I can understand it feels that way.

Those who are advising you to contact revenue, well, that is your right but just know that one doing that is taking a course of action that may have legal implications. What if you were wrong, it somehow went public and affected his/her business. I would think someone could be sued for libel/slander. Might want to be certain they are doing something wrong first.

I'd really recommend the first point in regards to trust. One must be able to trust their therapist or therapy gains may be minimal. Just a thought.

CBT Bear

thefinalstage

cbtbear wrote: »

Well i'm a therapist and most people do not ask for receipts. If they did I'd hand write one to them. A check is a better way for you to document payment if that is indeed the issue. It seems to me that you have trust issues with your therapist and, therefore, might want, only on that basis, to either address this trust issue (probably beyound receipts) or find anohter therapist.

Also, some people do therapy on the side away from their day job. It does not make them less qualified nor does it mean they are necessarily doing anything wrong. Additionally, it costs quite a lot to rent rooms to use (usually by the hour, i pay more than 25 plus vat just for the room), malpractice insurance, travel and yes tax. So the 60 you are paying is like getting paid 20 euro an hour, not really a lot of money although I can understand it feels that way.

Those who are advising you to contact revenue, well, that is your right but just know that one doing that is taking a course of action that may have legal implications. What if you were wrong, it somehow went public and affected his/her business. I would think someone could be sued for libel/slander. Might want to be certain they are doing something wrong first.

I'd really recommend the first point in regards to trust. One must be able to trust their therapist or therapy gains may be minimal. Just a thought.

CBT Bear

Twenty an hour after taxes and costs? Pfft thats really good money.

wyndham

thelastangryman wrote: »

Twenty an hour after taxes and costs? Pfft thats really good money.

Not really when you consider that in an 8 hour day, a therapist will more than likely not have 8 people to see, probably more like 5 or 6, or less even. And there may be other work involved to help outside of the hours that they are actually in session with the person.

The_Conductor

CBT bear does raise a lot of very very valid points. Personally I advise the OP to find another therapist- as its not likely that he/she is going to get much benefit from the sessions if all this is going on in the back of his/her head.

Victor

cbtbear wrote: »

Those who are advising you to contact revenue, well, that is your right but just know that one doing that is taking a course of action that may have legal implications. What if you were wrong, it somehow went public and affected his/her business. I would think someone could be sued for libel/slander. Might want to be certain they are doing something wrong first.

It is not defamatory to make a complaint to an official body, unless the complaint is malicious.

IncredibleHulk

It seems to me that you have trust issues with your therapist and, therefore, might want, only on that basis, to either address this trust issue (probably beyound receipts) or find anohter therapist.

And is the therapist trustworthy?

Those who are advising you to contact revenue, well, that is your right but just know that one doing that is taking a course of action that may have legal implications. What if you were wrong, it somehow went public and affected his/her business.

Applies to all business not just therapy

I would think someone could be sued for libel/slander. Might want to be certain they are doing something wrong first.

hardly in a private letter, would have to be published to be libel/sander

I'd really recommend the first point in regards to trust. One must be able to trust their therapist or therapy gains may be minimal. Just a thought.

Why should he trust someone who won't give a receipt, just because the someone is a therapist?

miju

brian capture banned

Sonnenblumen

cbtbear wrote: »

Well i'm a therapist and most people do not ask for receipts. If they did I'd hand write one to them. A check is a better way for you to document payment if that is indeed the issue. It seems to me that you have trust issues with your therapist and, therefore, might want, only on that basis, to either address this trust issue (probably beyound receipts) or find anohter therapist.

Also, some people do therapy on the side away from their day job. It does not make them less qualified nor does it mean they are necessarily doing anything wrong. Additionally, it costs quite a lot to rent rooms to use (usually by the hour, i pay more than 25 plus vat just for the room), malpractice insurance, travel and yes tax. So the 60 you are paying is like getting paid 20 euro an hour, not really a lot of money although I can understand it feels that way.

Those who are advising you to contact revenue, well, that is your right but just know that one doing that is taking a course of action that may have legal implications. What if you were wrong, it somehow went public and affected his/her business. I would think someone could be sued for libel/slander. Might want to be certain they are doing something wrong first.

I'd really recommend the first point in regards to trust. One must be able to trust their therapist or therapy gains may be minimal. Just a thought.

CBT Bear

What a most unusual point of view - running a business on the side or shoe string budget is hardly relevant. The tax aspect is alos a red herring, because
tax is only payable where profits are made. Small Profits = Little or no Tax payable, Sole Trader (Marginal rate), Ltd Co (12.5%). Hardly penal don't you think.

The operational aspects would cause me some concern, I mean what professional Therapist rents rooms by the hour, more reminiscent of the much older profession??

Seems to me the more scratching reveals how bad an unregulated business this whole area is, and the unfortunate aspect is that vunerable people seeking help are wide open to strange individuals some of whom might be nothing more than opportunists intent on retaining a low profile and making Euros on the side.

People should be more careful, as was evident on a recent Joe Duffy show in which being big is also no guarantee of avoiding exploitative practices.

The_Conductor

Sonnenblumen wrote:

What a most unusual point of view - running a business on the side or shoe string budget is hardly relevant. The tax aspect is alos a red herring, because
tax is only payable where profits are made. Small Profits = Little or no Tax payable, Sole Trader (Marginal rate), Ltd Co (12.5%). Hardly penal don't you think.

As a service providor- most therapists would be obliged to pay VAT (though obviously the smaller ones would come well under the threshold). VAT collection exercises can be even more difficult for sole traders than straight tax (as you cannot offset it against anything else).

Sonnenblumen wrote:

The operational aspects would cause me some concern, I mean what professional Therapist rents rooms by the hour, more reminiscent of the much older profession??

You can rent rooms in many places by the hour- quite a few of them are in HSE run establishments. Support groups and therapists often find it very convenient- as it means they do not have to open their own homes to what is a very small enterprise. Examples of this would include the Cope Building in Galway, Carmichael Centre in Dublin etc. It is not unusual in the least.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Seems to me the more scratching reveals how bad an unregulated business this whole area is, and the unfortunate aspect is that vunerable people seeking help are wide open to strange individuals some of whom might be nothing more than opportunists intent on retaining a low profile and making Euros on the side.

That is an unfair comment- most of the people "in the business" as you put it, only do it to provide a service to others because they care. If psychiatry was the business in Ireland that it is in the UK or the States- you would be paying hundreds of Euro per hour- and it would most probably be covered by the VHI/BUPA etc- but you would not be able to avail of the services unless it were specifically prescribed for you. Lots of people need a little help from time to time in their lives- these folk are not out to make a killing on vulnerable people- they are there to try to help. Having availed of their services myself in the past- and knowing the shoestring that a lot of them operate on (many don't charge at all- simply suggest you make a contribution towards the cost of running the building etc- such as the marriage councillors in Accord)- you really are casting aspersions on a wide group of people, most of whom only have good intentions.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

People should be more careful, as was evident on a recent Joe Duffy show in which being big is also no guarantee of avoiding exploitative practices.

Personally I would consider the Joe Duffy show to be far more exploitative and manipulative than any other entity in the whole country. You are looking at two entirely different ends of the spectrum- the only common denominator being people who feel that someone else can guide them through their problems, whatever they may be. You really are being unfair in your comparison.

swx22000

Hi.By Crappy Consumer Law we have in Ireland : Businesses do NOT have to give receipts
and on another note: A shop does not have to give a receipt even if you ask for it, BUT they can ask for a receipt when you return something, and if you don't have one they don't have to take the item back

eth0_

swx22000 wrote: »

Hi.By Crappy Consumer Law we have in Ireland : Businesses do NOT have to give receipts

They most certainly DO if the customer asks for one.