Irish Politics - Boring?

zexstream

As someone who has lived in the UK for most of their Life, I have to say that I find Irish Politics very boring.

I am Irish so I dont want to sound as If I am sounding like a upperclass British Snob!

However people in Ireland seem not to be engaged as they do in the UK, There seems a lack of decent Newspapers reporting on issues,
Television channel seem to skip around issues such as Europe- Immigration etc, and even Politicians seen not to have the same Fire as you would see in a Primeministers Question time.

Even Questions and Answers is very boring when compared to Question time on the BBC. The Audience on the BBC seem to be more engaged laughing, clapping even heckling, however on Q&A they sit there like good school children waiting for there turn!

Am I wrong? Do you guys think there is a lack of Political Fire here?

mikemac

It's a fair point.

Back when I was dossing as a college student I'd be getting out of bed around luchtime.:o
Nothing on TV but Prime Ministers Questiontime.

Tony Blair and William Hague trying to get the smart, withering putdowns in while hundreds of MP's looked on and heckled.
Might not be very interested but it was lively (Blair is the best public speaker I've ever seen imo)

Or the fact that people with disabilites go far. I know David Blunkett was blind and it's amazing to show that a blind person can hold such a high office.
Only this morning I learnt Gordan Brown has a glass eye after losing one eye from a rugby accident.

Compare that to Ireland and we see very little activity or debating.
Just boring grey politicans and the most senior cannot even speak clearly

Mick86

Most British people strike me as being incapable of naming their Prime Minister let alone engaging with politics. Most British newspapers devote pages and pages to Soap Operas, the lifestyles of Footballers WAGs and the Princess of Wales (the one that's been dead for a decade). Even SKY News has been dumbed down so much I cannot watch it for more than ten minutes at a time.

Having said all that, Irish politics IS boring. What's worse our Soap Operas are drivel, nobody is interested in what Hurler's Wives get up to and we don't have a handy dead princess to stalk.

Thank God for the Internet.:D

Mr.Micro

Irish politics is a bit rough and ready as some of the TDs are . I think that Q&A is not up to much in that J Bowman needs to loosen up a bit . All the issues raised in last 5 years on Q&A amounted to what ? the same crowd in a again.As regards politics in the UK ,they just go along with the leader I lived in the UK as well and they toe the line no matter what the Government brings in .I prefer the rough and ready.

lostexpectation

I dunno I have sat down to watch UK parliamentary questions, its great, but there just more atmosphere there, its a bigger room, bigger country that's got a lot to with it, the dail is usual a wasteland even during taoiseach questions, for their politicians are more media savy and experienced less

how about pat rabbite vs william hague problem with ahern and mcdowell was they don't try to one up the joke they just sneer a response

irish politicis is bit more bitter, bit more coloquial

gorden brown actually has glass eye i knew he was blind in one eye but is it really glass, he was also fast-tracked through university at 16, bit of evil genius it seems...

Mr.Micro

gorden brown actually has glass eye i knew he was blind in one eye but is it really glass, he was also fast-tracked through university at 16, bit of evil genius it seems...[/QUOTE]

Watch out Dr Evil and Mini me.

mike65

zexstream wrote: »

I am Irish so I dont want to sound as If I am sounding like a upperclass British Snob!

Whoa, steady on with the defensive cheap shots there.

zexstream wrote: »

However people in Ireland seem not to be engaged as they do in the UK, There seems a lack of decent Newspapers reporting on issues,
Television channel seem to skip around issues such as Europe- Immigration etc, and even Politicians seen not to have the same Fire as you would see in a Primeministers Question time.

Even Questions and Answers is very boring when compared to Question time on the BBC. The Audience on the BBC seem to be more engaged laughing, clapping even heckling, however on Q&A they sit there like good school children waiting for there turn!

Am I wrong? Do you guys think there is a lack of Political Fire here?

Irish politics is'nt played out in the media beyond the witterings of pundits and phone-in ranters. It works on the ground in an almost invisible world of
dodging and weaving at local level as various TDs look to jocky for position within thier party and against the opposition. Few here have any vision or see the big picture, only the next election matters.

Mike.

moe_sizlak

its hard for there to be much serious dueling in parliament here when you have a leader like bertie aherne who when trying to debate is as joe higgins put it , like playing handball up against a haystack ,

i agree about questions and answers being inferior to question time on bbc, john bowman is dull as dishwater and the panelists are never any good , while you see the likes of geroge galloway on question time at least once a year , you only see eoghan harris or other controversial straights talkers about once every 5

mike65

George only gets on if the editor reckons its a dull panel.

Mike.

Akrasia

The whole Irish parliament is designed to make it as boring as possible. Almost all of the speakers use prepared statements and they just read them out with their head staring straight at their notes, but none of that matters because the Dail is always empty anyway (TDs must be out trying to spend their hard earned 3 figure salaries)

The Ceann Comhairle never allows anything even resembling a debate to take place, the Taoiseach has wormed his way out of even having to appear in parliament for more than a few hours a week, and when he does answer questions, his statements are bewildering meandering and nonsensical often punctuated by personal insults aimed at the opposition badly disguised as bad jokes.

It's dreadfully boring,

But then, so are the politicians. I'd rather watch Big brother (and i HATE big brother) than listen to any of the party leaders waffle on about anything for more than a few seconds. The only person who had any life in him was Joe Higgins, and he was muscled out in the last election.

Dirk Gently

I'm not looking for punch and Judy type entertainment but the lack of debate and the lack of accountability i.e. questions never answered / ceann Comhairle killing everything is demoralising. It's almost funny at how easily Bertie can dither and mumble his way out of a question, sometimes by talking about anything but the subject in question.
I do miss Higgins landing the odd blow.

Mr.Micro

Are we really surprised at how boring Irish Politics are since we could not even muster a couple nay even one candidate to run against the dull and uncharismatic Mary Mcaleese .Such apathy .

mikemac

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Are we really surprised at how boring Irish Politics are since we could not even muster a couple nay even one candidate to run against the dull and uncharismatic Mary Mcaleese .Such apathy .

Apathy?
The President had >90% approval ratings when she was reinstated.
Strong words there Mr.Micro, most people are extremly happy with the job she is doing.
And regarding dull: didn't she label some politicans up North as Nazi's. That's not exactly a dull statement.

Dana tried and failed and even if she did force an election she would have been humiliated. She could never have won.

You're right about British politicans toeing the line. But that's because ministers regulary get sacked over there. They even have codes of standards and ethics. Whereas here if Martin Cullen can't get sacked then noone ever will.

Hague or Blair would wipe the floor with everyone of our TD's. I don't know one good Irish TD who is good at debating.

E92

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Irish politics is a bit rough and ready as some of the TDs are . I think that Q&A is not up to much in that J Bowman needs to loosen up a bit . All the issues raised in last 5 years on Q&A amounted to what ? the same crowd in a again.As regards politics in the UK ,they just go along with the leader I lived in the UK as well and they toe the line no matter what the Government brings in .I prefer the rough and ready.

I think youought to know(if you don't already) that most of the 'audience tickets' for Q&A are given to the political parties.

Thwy are all allocated a certain amount.

Dirk Gently

micmclo wrote: »

Hague or Blair would wipe the floor with everyone of our TD's. I don't know one good Irish TD who is good at debating.

My top 3 are all out of the dail now, Joe.Higgins, Pat.Rabbitte, Mick.mcdowel.
Last decent debater left is probably Brian.Cowan. Wouldn't be a fan of either cowan or mcdowel politically but credit to their debating abilities.

mikemac

Pat Rabitte is still in the Dáil. He may not be party leader but he is still a TD

Dirk Gently

micmclo wrote: »

Pat Rabitte is still in the Dáil. He may not be party leader but he is still a TD

meh, we wont get to see him get stuck in nearly as often is what I mean.

Sand

Irish politics is at what Francis Fukuyama might call the end of history. The national question is resolved, the militant republican tradition has been defeated, the issue of whether Ireland should be protectionist or open and free trading has been decisively decided by a decade of unparralleled growth.

Basically Irish people have settled the sort of government and economic and social structure they desire. There are no other great issues to divide Irish politics, other than whatever remaining bitterness and turf wars prevent FF and FG saving everyone the annoyance and merging.

People want an open economy that favour inward investment - any move to damage Irelands open economy by raising corporation taxes is basically a political suicide note. However, people would be ashamed and embarrased to admit to favouring capitalism, so they like to pass themselves of as socialists of some sort. If asked, they claim to want decent social services but in reality they are not willing to pay for them so they truly favour a low income tax model with the resulting reliance on private services over public - this is so apparent that even Labour are a tax cutting party these days.

Prosperity has brought more confidence, so they are basically uninterested in nationalist issues. There was barely a quibble over the removal of the territorial claim on Northern Ireland and most peoples views on the north could be summarised as "Who cares?".

Parties and leaders sell themselves as the groups best able to manage this model, not as anyone who will shift away from that model which has brought success at last to Ireland. The Irish electorate are also hostile to idealogues, of any stripe - be they Joe Higgins or Michael McDowell.

Guys like Bertie who basically has no real idealogy but seems affable and as confused as the rest of us as to why the government isnt doing something about the issue of the day end up doing very well. Bertie doesnt say controversial stuff, he doesnt nail his flag to any particular mast, doesnt offend anyone, no one can claim to disagree completely with his beliefs because who the hell knows what he believes.

Basically a broad agreement has been reached on Ireland politics. Theres no disagreement or dissent other than on fringe issues like say Shell, or Shannon or bin charges which are basically just minor issues and unimportant to the vast majority of people.

As for Bertie and Dail debates - I dont know about the rules of the house, but someday someone really needs to shout at him in the Dail "English *******, do you speak it!" I read the text of one of his responses recently, word for word [apparently this is rare to see, most journalist just try to hazard a guess at the gist of what he said]. It was the biggest load of ****e and verbal drivel I have ever heard. It made no coherent sense whatsover. I assume it must be one of the "cute whoor" tricks Irish politicians love, because when his pride is stung he is very capable of speaking clearly and directly to whoever has hurt his feelings.

I do not know how the opposition deputies resist the urge to go over to him and strangle him.

silverharp

Sand wrote: »

Irish politics is at what Francis Fukuyama might call the end of history. The national question is resolved, the militant republican tradition has been defeated, the issue of whether Ireland should be protectionist or open and free trading has been decisively decided by a decade of unparralleled growth.

Basically Irish people have settled the sort of government and economic and social structure they desire. There are no other great issues to divide Irish politics, other than whatever remaining bitterness and turf wars prevent FF and FG saving everyone the annoyance and merging.

People want an open economy that favour inward investment - any move to damage Irelands open economy by raising corporation taxes is basically a political suicide note. However, people would be ashamed and embarrased to admit to favouring capitalism, so they like to pass themselves of as socialists of some sort. If asked, they claim to want decent social services but in reality they are not willing to pay for them so they truly favour a low income tax model with the resulting reliance on private services over public - this is so apparent that even Labour are a tax cutting party these days.

Prosperity has brought more confidence, so they are basically uninterested in nationalist issues. There was barely a quibble over the removal of the territorial claim on Northern Ireland and most peoples views on the north could be summarised as "Who cares?".

Parties and leaders sell themselves as the groups best able to manage this model, not as anyone who will shift away from that model which has brought success at last to Ireland. The Irish electorate are also hostile to idealogues, of any stripe - be they Joe Higgins or Michael McDowell.

Guys like Bertie who basically has no real idealogy but seems affable and as confused as the rest of us as to why the government isnt doing something about the issue of the day end up doing very well. Bertie doesnt say controversial stuff, he doesnt nail his flag to any particular mast, doesnt offend anyone, no one can claim to disagree completely with his beliefs because who the hell knows what he believes.

Basically a broad agreement has been reached on Ireland politics. Theres no disagreement or dissent other than on fringe issues like say Shell, or Shannon or bin charges which are basically just minor issues and unimportant to the vast majority of people.

As for Bertie and Dail debates - I dont know about the rules of the house, but someday someone really needs to shout at him in the Dail "English *******, do you speak it!" I read the text of one of his responses recently, word for word [apparently this is rare to see, most journalist just try to hazard a guess at the gist of what he said]. It was the biggest load of ****e and verbal drivel I have ever heard. It made no coherent sense whatsover. I assume it must be one of the "cute whoor" tricks Irish politicians love, because when his pride is stung he is very capable of speaking clearly and directly to whoever has hurt his feelings.

I do not know how the opposition deputies resist the urge to go over to him and strangle him.

Classic, very good analysis. I would add that prosperity has completely dulled the electorate’s ability do discern good gov from bad gov. It’s beyond me why so many people here put up with badly serviced housing, appalling infrastructure planning, a corrupt and mismanaged Health and legal service , self serving civil servants all in exchange for a shiny car a couple of holidays a year and an investment property in the latest up and coming slum in eastern Europe. The end of history me arse

richard_b

Irish politics and the politics of England are different for a number of reasons. Just reading the argument to date, I think the differing electoral systems in the two areas have a large part with this.

Due to our PR voting system, politicians seek the vote of different sections of the community. There is not a need for politicians to advertise themselves individually by being eloquent speakers in the dial. Instead, politicians play local politics. In Ireland, the saying all politics is local is very apt. In England, the system is very different due to first past the post. Politicians will have to grab the attention of as many people as possible. Voting strategies, voting transfers do not carry and kind of significance as they do in Ireland.

In relation to the Parliamentary Debate being of a very poor quality in the republic, two reasons jump to mind.

1. The pool of talented public speakers in Ireland is poor. Perhaps this is due to ‘debating’ not being a very popular activity in schools as it is in parts of the English Education system. The practice of deputies reading scripts in the house has also meant a decline in debate. With the exception of Mary Harney, I cannot think of a single minister who just reads scripts predominantly in Q and A.
2. The political party structure in Ireland is very loyal. Politicians will rarely, if ever, question the leadership of that party in Public. In England the leadership is challenged public ally and in the House of Commons. Generally confrontation/disagreement in Irish politics is sorted privately.

Certain issues were raised specifically with relation to Irish Politics being boring-Immigration and Europe. On Immigration, I think it is fair to say, as of yet, Ireland has not had the same problems as the England in relation to immigration. Immigration is new and the economy is still creating job growth. The benefits outweigh the negative sides of immigration (I am hard pushed to find any real and concrete negatives of Irish immigration- but that is certainly a different issue). In relation to Europe, Ireland is beginning to question it. Until recently, in my opinion no politician in the main stream would question Europe out of fear in loosing funds. (In saying that, in is unlikely that Finna Fail or Finna Gael will oppose the upcoming treaty). My point being, you raised international issues. Ireland is concerned with local politics more so than other European countries. Issues of retaining/improving/creating local hospital and other healthcare facilities and crime in the community are the top of the Irish political Agenda. Even the North does not play a major role in Irish politics today even though the two main parties are created from that question.

moe_sizlak

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Are we really surprised at how boring Irish Politics are since we could not even muster a couple nay even one candidate to run against the dull and uncharismatic Mary Mcaleese .Such apathy .

2nd that , i cant stand president mc aleese , the woman is terminally NAFF

richard_b

moe_sizlak wrote: »

2nd that , i cant stand president mc aleese , the woman is terminally NAFF

On the president, is it really surprising that there is such apathy for an institution which has such few powers and functions?

The president is not a political role. Than is in important point to remember. It was never envisaged to be political. The role is ceremonial one.

Mr.Micro

richard_b wrote: »

On the president, is it really surprising that there is such apathy for an institution which has such few powers and functions?

The president is not a political role. Than is in important point to remember. It was never envisaged to be political. The role is ceremonial one.

Mary Robinson brought flair and charisma to the post .Its what is needed as the representative of the country not bland and dull.

moe_sizlak

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Mary Robinson brought flair and charisma to the post .Its what is needed as the representative of the country not bland and dull.

didnt and still dont like mary robinson either

nobodythere

No news is good news chief.

Sleepy

One of the chief problems with Irish politics is our over-populated parliament. With so many politicians, it's possible for people to win seats based almost entirely on attending enough funerals and nudge nudge wink wink favours. Were electoral districts large enough people might actually start looking at the policies of the candidates rather than just voting for someone who'll 'be good for the area'.

It's my considered opinion that this is the only reason Fianna Fail are in existence as a party, never mind in power.

So, it's unlikely to change, however much good it would do.

Mr.Micro

Sons and daughters inherit the seat of the father as well so the same blood stays in power one way or another.New blood is needed to get the P back in politics and the Dail is hardly open long enough to do anything.

zexstream

I remember during the last election many people in my area talked about the different party policies. But when it came down to it people voted by some misguided loyalty to particular parties.

I remember one particular friend who voted against her own wishes, because her dad was Fianna Fáil and always had been. So despite her liking what Fine Gael stood for she had to vote against her wishes as her dad would have a go at her!

moe_sizlak

zexstream wrote: »

I remember during the last election many people in my area talked about the different party policies. But when it came down to it people voted by some misguided loyalty to particular parties.

I remember one particular friend who voted against her own wishes, because her dad was Fianna Fáil and always had been. So despite her liking what Fine Gael stood for she had to vote against her wishes as her dad would have a go at her!

voting for fine gael in this country if your family are fianna fail voters is like attending an anglican church next sunday instead of mass

oscarBravo

zexstream wrote: »

So despite her liking what Fine Gael stood for she had to vote against her wishes as her dad would have a go at her!

Or, alternatively, she could have voted as an individual and told her dad what he wanted to hear.

RuailleBuaille

micmclo wrote: »

Hague or Blair would wipe the floor with everyone of our TD's. I don't know one good Irish TD who is good at debating.

Totally disagree. Rabbitte is fantastic at debating. Cowen v good also. Hard to have a deabte when you're up against the likes of Ahern, unfair advantage given English is not his first language. Or even second. And the fact that he allows 14 minutes once a week in which to have a debate doesn't help either. :mad: