Irish Politics - Boring?

Mick86

zexstream wrote: »

I remember one particular friend who voted against her own wishes, because her dad was Fianna Fáil and always had been. So despite her liking what Fine Gael stood for she had to vote against her wishes as her dad would have a go at her!

Is she some kind of idiot? How would her father know who she voted for?

moe_sizlak wrote: »

voting for fine gael in this country if your family are fianna fail voters is like attending an anglican church next sunday instead of mass

I've done both. Afterwards you wonder what's the big deal.

FTA69

Adams used be the best debater in Irish politics, especially on issues relating to the north, he was largely untouchable. He's after losing the plot nowadays though. Irish politics used to be great craic, loads of corruption and scandals, and even a bit of political violence thrown in for good measue. It's gone to the dogs now though.

Mick86

FTA69 wrote: »

Adams used be the best debater in Irish politics, especially on issues relating to the north, he was largely untouchable.

Adams was and is a one trick pony. Whatever the question he would give a stock answer about the peace process. He wasn't capable of debating any subject. All SF politicians are the same they never deviate from the script. Once they have to move off the subject of northern Ireland they are like fish out of water.

moe_sizlak

i think a lot of the reason the dail is so non combatant stems from the fact that the referee or cean comhairle plays for the same team as the goverment
rory o hanlon , the last speaker of the house wouldnt allow anyone to lay a hand on bertie or the goverment , in the house of commons the speaker is a neutral

Mr.Micro

I think as Ireland becomes more commercialised and more cosmopolitian we may see more complex issues developing such as social problems , organized crime , health issues ,education ,infrastructure ,pensions etc ( I know that we already have them now).Up to recently we exported a lot of our problems and past governments never had to deal with issues on a grand scale. People expect more and politicians cant give any old blarney .Politics can only get better.

sovtek

Mick86 wrote: »

Adams was and is a one trick pony. Whatever the question he would give a stock answer about the peace process. He wasn't capable of debating any subject. All SF politicians are the same they never deviate from the script. Once they have to move off the subject of northern Ireland they are like fish out of water.

He ran rings round (Adams) McDowell, Kenny and the others in a debate running up to the election. I don't even think the peace process was even discussed.

lostexpectation

huh this is adams you're talking running rings around the other politicians, he didn't do so, imagine having somebody not up for election to head your election campaign madness

FTA69

He ran rings round (Adams) McDowell, Kenny and the others in a debate running up to the election. I don't even think the peace process was even discussed.

He was very disappointing during that debate, even the most ardent Sinn Féin members would tell you that.

Mick,

Adams was and is a one trick pony. Whatever the question he would give a stock answer about the peace process. He wasn't capable of debating any subject. All SF politicians are the same they never deviate from the script. Once they have to move off the subject of northern Ireland they are like fish out of water.

Not at all, didn't he absolutely demolish Ruairi Quinn on the Late Late a good few years back?

Dalfiatach

There's a whole list of underlying factors which explain why our politics has become so utterly naff over the last decade. In no particular order:

Clientelism : This has always been the case but seems to have got even worse recently. Irish politics is fiercely local. TDs are doing the job of local councillors in any other country. The electorate vote for TDs on 2 factors: family party loyalty; and which candidates have the best reputation for fixing potholes, sending letters to the council, etc. The electorate don't give a sh1te what opinions, if any, the candidates have on national and international issues. So we end up with a Dáil full of parochial gombeen chancers and cute hoors. The chancers who were most successful in delivering key seats by sending out the most stupid letters and claiming the most credit for "sorting" trivial local concerns get rewarded with a Ministry. Everyone else gets a Junior Ministry or a post on a Committee, and they're all making tons of cash. Happy Days for them, useless incompetent "government" and "opposition" for the rest of us.

Corrupt Media: The quality of the Irish media is fecking abysmal. There is no real tradition of investigative analysis, digging out the dirt, breaking scandals. The small and incestuous world of Irish media is dominated by a couple of firms and a couple of personalities, everybody knows everybody else, and there's just no room for rocking the boat. "You'll never work in this town again" is a very real threat. Add this to the fact that all the Irish media is financially tied to certain vested-interest industries and rely on them for revenue, and you end up with the last 5 years: a lunatic bubble being enthusiastically ramped by the entire media class who were trousering vast sums from it, with virtually nobody willing to tell the truth. And they're still lying about it.

Culture Of Unaccountability: Nobody important is ever to blame in Ireland. Ever. No matter what. And everyone at management level protects everybody else at that level. Nod-and-wink cute-hoorism is rampant in this country, not just in politics. If a disaster occurs, some low-level flunky gets it in the neck, and the management/politicians responsible just get transferred to another department. It's just like the way dodgy priests were simply moved around. Exactly the same culture.

In the Ahern era, they latched onto a new trick: create a quango, staff it with imbecilic party hacks and political appointees, then simply blame them for the mess when something goes wrong. But because these boards are not directly under Ministerial control, the Minister has no power to actually do anything about it. Shrug. Oh well. The sole purpose of bodies like the HSE, RSA, RPA, NRA etc. etc. etc. is to remove once and for all any possibility of a Minister being held to account for the mess under which they allegedly preside.

And lastly

Cruiseresque Inferiority Delusion, which was battered ruthlessly into an entire generation - the generation which by amazing coincidence is currently holding power. Under the spell of the Revisionistas from the late 60s onwards, the generation currently in power does not believe in Ireland. In any sense. Ireland is just a random piece of land in which anonymous individual consumers live. There's nothing special about it, in fact it's really a bit crap and has no history or heritage that is worth anything. Nothing constructive or positive will happen if the inhabitants of Ireland are allowed to do things for themselves, for they are a sinful bunch of ignorant peasant pixie-people.

Hence the dash to throw away Irish sovereignty on any and all issues. It doesn't matter who takes over responsibility for running parts of Ireland, because anybody foreign would be better than doing it ourselves. Hand over economic development to Corporate America, sure how could the Irish create world-class industries of their own? Hand over law-making and standards-setting to Brussels, sure any law passed by the Irish is bound to be stupid. Washington wants to dictate our foreign policy? Sure, jaysus lads this is great. And if all else fails and an issue arises where we are expected to deal with it ourselves, shure we'll just copy whatever the Brits are doing this week. We don't have to think for ourselves, we don't have to make decisions, and everything that happens is Somebody Else's Fault! Brilliant! Have another pay rise there Bertie, yer doing a great job.

Sand

He ran rings round (Adams) McDowell, Kenny and the others in a debate running up to the election. I don't even think the peace process was even discussed.

LOL - Sorry, what election was this in the run up to? Wasnt the last one thats for sure. Adams utter failure during the debate was indisputable. He was totally out of his depth in discussing matters other than Northern Ireland. Seriously - he indisputably failed during that debate.

i think a lot of the reason the dail is so non combatant stems from the fact that the referee or cean comhairle plays for the same team as the goverment
rory o hanlon , the last speaker of the house wouldnt allow anyone to lay a hand on bertie or the goverment , in the house of commons the speaker is a neutral

I agree this is a major concern tbh. Id feel the cean comhairle needs to be selected from outside the mainstream political arena - possibly a position for retired judges or something similar, people with a background in another pillar of government that arent indebted to any political party and hopefully determined to be independant of them.

Id also like to see the Dail numbers cut drastically - anything up to a third should be removed imo. TD paypackets need to be linked to the average industrial wage as well - let it be several multiples of it, but once set it should only rise or fall in line with the average. Call it performance related pay. But lets face it, thats a pipe dream because the TDs would have to vote for it, and turkeys arent going to vote for Christmas.

oscarBravo

Sand wrote: »

TD paypackets need to be linked to the average industrial wage as well - let it be several multiples of it, but once set it should only rise or fall in line with the average. Call it performance related pay. But lets face it, thats a pipe dream because the TDs would have to vote for it, and turkeys arent going to vote for Christmas.

It's also inherently inflationary.

Time Magazine

To be fair, their pay is decided upon by an "external" body who decided all state sector payments. Why necessarily link it to the industrial wage? If ambulance workers get a deserved pay-rise, why should politicians? Why, vice versa?

Also, oB, to be fair, an extra couple of million euro to politicians isn't all that much of a concern regarding inflation.

moe_sizlak

Ibid wrote: »

To be fair, their pay is decided upon by an "external" body who decided all state sector payments. Why necessarily link it to the industrial wage? If ambulance workers get a deserved pay-rise, why should politicians? Why, vice versa?

Also, oB, to be fair, an extra couple of million euro to politicians isn't all that much of a concern regarding inflation.

see pat rabbites performance on questions and answers last night , he said you would think this pushy independant body was forcing the pay rise upon the politicians at gun point
they did not have to take it

oscarBravo

Ibid wrote: »

Also, oB, to be fair, an extra couple of million euro to politicians isn't all that much of a concern regarding inflation.

I was referring to the suggestion of TDs' pay linked to average industrial wage - it would strongly incentivise politicians to push for higher payrolls in general terms, which - while possibly superficially attractive to some - would ultimately be inflationary.

Dalfiatach

oscarBravo wrote: »

I was referring to the suggestion of TDs' pay linked to average industrial wage - it would strongly incentivise politicians to push for higher payrolls in general terms, which - while possibly superficially attractive to some - would ultimately be inflationary.

Indeed. Goodhart's Law in action. Politicians and Management types the world over just keep making this same mistake, over and over again *sigh*

OPENROAD

Mick86 wrote: »

Most British people strike me as being incapable of naming their Prime Minister let alone engaging with politics.


Most British people, wow you know loads of people :rolleyes:

OPENROAD

Getting back to the OP, have to say that I agree, love PMQ's and Question time. Love watching William Hague and also love This Week on BBC, like Michael Portillo.

Our own Qustions and answers have to say fine very dull.