The end of the United Kingdom ???

McArmalite

I see that David Cameron is reported to be considering proposals to cut the power of non English MPs in Westminster and allow only English MPs to vote on matters affecting old Blighty . Is this the beginning of the end for the UK ( Here's hoping :D )

Mr.Micro

McArmalite wrote: »

I see that David Cameron is reported to be considering proposals to cut the power of non English MPs in Westminster and allow only English MPs to vote on matters affecting old Blighty . Is this the beginning of the end for the UK ( Here's hoping :D )

Need not worry I think he is all bluster and this proposal sounds good to the xenophobes . They have still got a finger in Iraq and Afghanistan to keep them busy I guess . He cant turn the clock back .

murphaph

I'd say the UK will survive in a looser federal state with the reigning monarch as head of state for all constituents. Heck, maybe we'll join the 'new UK' someday. :cool:

zexstream

I certainly can see the end of the UK in its current form.

I agree with David cameron that it is unfair and unjust that Scottish MP`s can vote on English affairs whilst English MP`s cant on Scottish.

What I think will happen will be a devolved English Government as they have in the rest of the UK with a new English Parliment. I know thats what the English certainly want.

But then with the current Labour government who knows what could happen. Like the last general election more people in England voted for the Conservative party but because of not having a majoirty election and a constituency one instead Labour won.

What is going to happen is the UK are about to tear themselves apart with the SNP in scotland and the BNP in England.

The BNP are playing the race card and many people in England are now latching onto the BNP message and I reckon it wont be long before we start seeing Riots over there.

mike65

McArmalite, for a man who does'nt even use the word Blighty correctly, your smug republican stance looks foolish.

Cameron, the last time I checked, was in opposition so what he wants is largely irrelevant right now. As for Scotlands future Alec Salmond is full of BS and also does'nt have much of a clue either trying to claim North Sea oil for the porrige pushers (he does'nt seem to understand international boundaries extend into the sea so they would'nt get nearly as much as they seem to want.)

Mike.

Mick86

zexstream wrote: »

I agree with David cameron that it is unfair and unjust that Scottish MP`s can vote on English affairs whilst English MP`s cant on Scottish.

Rubbish. The Scottish Parliament has no control over Scotland's Economic, Foreign Affairs or Defence policies for instance. Those are still set by Westminster.

zexstream

Mick86 wrote: »

Rubbish. The Scottish Parliament has no control over Scotland's Economic, Foreign Affairs or Defence policies for instance. Those are still set by Westminster.

Thats because Scotland dosent have any Foreign Affairs or Defence Policies.

Neither does England, Wales Or Northern Ireland.

However the UK does.

Mick86

zexstream wrote: »

Thats because Scotland dosent have any Foreign Affairs or Defence Policies.

Neither does England, Wales Or Northern Ireland.

However the UK does.

So the UK parliament sets Foreign Affairs and Defence Policies for the UK. That would be the same UK that includes Scotland? Very Good. And English MPs vote on those issues? Excellent. So it follows then that English MPs can vote on matters that affect Scotland and David Cameron is talking sh!te.

Mr.Micro

Cameron will say anything that will get him a cheap headline . The Scottish Parliament has no real power anyway ,hell Scotland is not even independent .A storm in a tea cup .

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote: »

As for Scotlands future Alec Salmond is full of BS and also does'nt have much of a clue either trying to claim North Sea oil for the porrige pushers (he does'nt seem to understand international boundaries extend into the sea so they would'nt get nearly as much as they seem to want.)

Mike.

Certainly not full of BS the last time I listened, can you be more specific?

A Dub in Glasgo

zexstream wrote: »

I certainly can see the end of the UK in its current form.

I agree with David cameron that it is unfair and unjust that Scottish MP`s can vote on English affairs whilst English MP`s cant on Scottish.

What I think will happen will be a devolved English Government as they have in the rest of the UK with a new English Parliment. I know thats what the English certainly want.

But then with the current Labour government who knows what could happen. Like the last general election more people in England voted for the Conservative party but because of not having a majoirty election and a constituency one instead Labour won.

Ahh, the West Lothian Question. The English refused to go for devolved regional assemblies therefore this brings it home to people.

I don't think people were concerned when more people in Scotland voted Labour but the Tories took England therefore they ruled the UK. Thatcher then used Scotland as a guinea pig.

The thing about the 1st past the post system is a stable Government can be created with about 40% of the votes!

A Dub in Glasgo

zexstream wrote: »

Thats because Scotland dosent have any Foreign Affairs or Defence Policies.

Scotland does have at least one defence policy - getting rid of the WoMD in the Glasgow area.

A Dub in Glasgo

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Cameron will say anything that will get him a cheap headline . The Scottish Parliament has no real power anyway ,hell Scotland is not even independent .A storm in a tea cup .

Although not independent, the Scottish Government has quite a bit of power at the moment... not enough so hopefully more matters can be devolved to the Scottish people.

mike65

Re Dubs query

If the UK part of the North Sea is divided up, Scotland will not be getting it all, there would have to be an equitable agreement subject to international law. The SNP talk about oil like it'll all be thiers, not that I'd be basing my economy on a depleting resource anyway.

As for Scottish independence, they'd be pushing at an open door if it were up to English voters I suspect. Indeed one might surmise its the Labour party that would be
the greatest advocate for the union.

Mike.

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote: »

Indeed one might surmise its the Labour party that would be
the greatest advocate for the union.

Mike.

They are the largest Unionist party in Scotland (& Britain!)

robinph

Mick86 wrote: »

So the UK parliament sets Foreign Affairs and Defence Policies for the UK. That would be the same UK that includes Scotland? Very Good. And English MPs vote on those issues? Excellent. So it follows then that English MPs can vote on matters that affect Scotland and David Cameron is talking sh!te.

The scottish mps in westminster do get to vote on those issues though, the ones in holyrood don't though.

murphaph

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Although not independent, the Scottish Government has quite a bit of power at the moment... not enough so hopefully more matters can be devolved to the Scottish people.

Of course the Holyrood assembly only has powers granted to it by Westminster. It's powers are NOT derived from the people directly! This is important as it could be closed down by the real parliament if it so wished.

The current situation is messy. Either the scots should leave the UK completely and pay their own way in all matters including defence, or the Holyrood parliament should be closed in its current form. Why elect MSPs and MPs to two different parliaments, both having some elements of control of taxation and spending. It's not like electing MEPs as they have zero control over taxation and spending.

Personally I don't care if the scots are in or out politically but for purely economically selfish reasons, I'm happy enough for the scots to stay inside the UK. In the event of scottish independence, it is highly likely that they would move to follow us on corporation tax rates as it has been highlighted by the SNP on many occasions. This would directly affect our own inward investment-already under strain.

Mick86

robinph wrote: »

The scottish mps in westminster do get to vote on those issues though, the ones in holyrood don't though.

Well done top of the class.:rolleyes:

McArmalite

mike65 wrote: »

McArmalite, for a man who does'nt even use the word Blighty correctly, your smug republican stance looks foolish.

Cameron, the last time I checked, was in opposition so what he wants is largely irrelevant right now. As for Scotlands future Alec Salmond is full of BS and also does'nt have much of a clue either trying to claim North Sea oil for the porrige pushers (he does'nt seem to understand international boundaries extend into the sea so they would'nt get nearly as much as they seem to want.)

Mike.

Don't see why you have to insult the poor old Scots with the " the porrige pushers " remark. How would you like to be called say, a potato muncher ?

As for the Blighty thing, the whole posting is done with a bit of tongue in cheek.

Voipjunkie

Mick86 wrote: »

So the UK parliament sets Foreign Affairs and Defence Policies for the UK. That would be the same UK that includes Scotland? Very Good. And English MPs vote on those issues? Excellent. So it follows then that English MPs can vote on matters that affect Scotland and David Cameron is talking sh!te.

I think you are missing the point

Scottish MPs get to vote on issues that just affect England or England and Wales whilst those decisions are made for Scotland by their own parliament. So for example the Scots brought in their own smoking ban which the English MPs had no hand act or part in whilst the Scots MPs to Westminister then had a say in the English smoking ban.

purple'n'gold

McArmalite wrote: »

I see that David Cameron is reported to be considering proposals to cut the power of non English MPs in Westminster and allow only English MPs to vote on matters affecting old Blighty . Is this the beginning of the end for the UK ( Here's hoping :D )

No, it’s not the beginning of the end of the United Kingdom; it’s not the beginning of the end of anything. It’s simply David Cameron trying to grab a few headlines. It’s called politics; it’s a game politician’s play. So, don’t hold your breath, the United Kingdom will be around for a while yet.

moe_sizlak

support for scottish independance in scotland is not nearly as high as we are often led to believe

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

mike65

Its a term I saw many years ago and I'm afraid it stuck.

The Scottish used to be world beaters but these days are content to leech off England and the English esp all those Tartan politicians and resident drunks in London.

Mike.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Mick86

mike65 wrote: »

The Scottish used to be world beaters but these days are content to leech off England and the English esp all those Tartan politicians and resident drunks in London.

Mike.

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Tut-tut Mike, nowyou've upset someone.:p

mike65

Tis so easy with Scots (and most Celts in fact! )

Mike.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

mike65

Ooooooooooooooooooooooh! See you outside, erm somewhere.

Mike.

robinph

Mick86 wrote: »

Well done top of the class.:rolleyes:

So what was the point you were trying to make about Scottish MP's not getting to vote on Scottish issues then? I think you've missed where the disagreement over who gets to vote on which issues actually is.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.