Over 1,100 firearms stolen since 2003

fishdog

If the Gardai know there are guns in the house you can bet your life they'll be out very quickly. Sparks found that out when his house was burgled last year.

It is possible that the Garda that picks up the phone from the monitoring station will not know that you have firearms in the house. They do not seem to check a list of homes that have firearms when responding to a call (I asked). However some Gardai know some of the homes that contain firearms.

E. Fudd

The problem is though that the monitoring companies are very hesitant to actually contact the Gardai! Thay will ring your three nominated key holders and try to persuade them to go to the alarm before thay will contact the gardai!

fishdog

The problem is though that the monitoring companies are very hesitant to actually contact the Gardai!

Very true. But if your alarm rings you directly you sure as hell will ring the Gardai and anyone else that can get there quick!!

Thay will ring your three nominated key holders and try to persuade them to go to the alarm before thay will contact the gardai!

All the more reason to cut out the monitoring station "middle man" fee.

E. Fudd

Couldn't agree more!

Anyway, I'll be able to put the monitoring thing to the test in the coming weeks as I will be applying for a .243 license as soon as my deer hunting permit arrives! I'm hoping that they don;t ask for monitoring, but failing that, I'm hoping that the unit that I have installed that texts me will be acceptable to them!

bunny shooter

My local super won't accept the text monitoring, has to be the manned monitoring centre

alan_simon

Does anyone know how much Eircom Phonewatch costs to be installed? I checked the site, and they told me its 250 odd p/a for monitoring, but it doesnt say how much all the equipment would cost.

cheers

alan

bunny shooter

alan_simon wrote: »

Does anyone know how much Eircom Phonewatch costs to be installed? I checked the site, and they told me its 250 odd p/a for monitoring, but it doesnt say how much all the equipment would cost.

cheers

alan

It cost me €1200, all external doors (x2), windows (x6) , seperate zone for cupboard for gun safe, motion sensors (x2) and 12 months monotoring

fishdog

It cost me €1200, all external doors (x2), windows (x6) , seperate zone for cupboard for gun safe, motion sensors (x2) and 12 months monotoring

Means nothing, they generally use outside contractors. The price varies like mad.

BTW PhoneWatch wireless systems are normally less secure for many reasons, but mainly because the standard way to install them is with fake SABB (externall bellbox). This is a very important part of an alarm system, for many reasons including the fact that during an activation it is normally the only part of the alarm that can be heard. Internal sirens normally can not be heard utside the house because of double glazing.

Always go for a hardwired (not wireless alarm system). They are more reliable, cheaper and more secure (if installed correctly).

Even Eircom PhoneWatch will not install a wireless system if the house is prewired.

rrpc

E. Fudd wrote: »

The problem is though that the monitoring companies are very hesitant to actually contact the Gardai! Thay will ring your three nominated key holders and try to persuade them to go to the alarm before thay will contact the gardai!

My monitoring company will only ring the Gardai when both the perimeter and internal systems trigger. In other words they need a door/window activation and a PIR activation. This is a Garda requirement, not a monitoring one to prevent false alarm call outs.

They are extremely quick to call me when there is an activation. I have yet only once been able to phone them before they phoned me about an activation and I had to run and speed dial their number.

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

It cost me €1200, all external doors (x2), windows (x6) , seperate zone for cupboard for gun safe, motion sensors (x2) and 12 months monotoring

I got a contractor to do mine; 17 windows, 4 doors, 4 wireless PIR's, 2 dialers (hard wired and GSM), 2 panic buttons (1 fixed, 1 wireless) and monitoring cost €3300. :eek:

Worth the money

Keelan

This is one of the many reasons i gave up the shooting game.
I am not rich, i only have a part time job, have to look after my son aswell.
To fork out god knows how many thousands ect on security, is just not viable for me.
Im afraid, shooting will only be for the well off, gone are the days of going out for a shot with the naibour down the road, for a pheasent or a fox, its all money money and more money, the biggest rifle, the most expensive scope, binoculars ect ect!!!! How many deer you can shoot, how much you can spend!!!!! No fun anymore!!

Keelan

rrpc wrote: »

I got a contractor to do mine; 17 windows, 4 doors, 4 wireless PIR's, 2 dialers (hard wired and GSM), 2 panic buttons (1 fixed, 1 wireless) and monitoring cost €3300. :eek:

Worth the money

Yeah, if you can afford it????!!

rrpc

Keelan wrote: »

This is one of the many reasons i gave up the shooting game.
I am not rich, i only have a part time job, have to look after my son aswell.
To fork out god knows how many thousands ect on security, is just not viable for me.
Im afraid, shooting will only be for the well off, gone are the days of going out for a shot with the naibour down the road, for a pheasent or a fox, its all money money and more money, the biggest rifle, the most expensive scope, binoculars ect ect!!!! How many deer you can shoot, how much you can spend!!!!! No fun anymore!!

You don't need that kind of security for a shotgun or a .22 rifle. An Infac safe properly bolted to a concrete wall and the floor is quite sufficient. Preferrably sited in an area that isn't easy to find.

I had a particular reason for installing that level of security and it wasn't related to shooting.

sidneyreilly

I understand that the statistics of firearms theft don’t take into account whether or not the firearm was broken/disassembled at the time. Would be interesting to know.

Rovi

alan_simon wrote: »

To get back to the topic, I was chatting to a garda this morning. I won't name him, but he's in charge of Firearms in a significant area of South Dublin. He was saying that the vast majority of thefts are, firstly shotguns and large calibre rifles, and secondly that most thefts are opportunistic. Unless you have a big centrefire rifle or a pistol in your house, your unlikely to be targeted by robbers.

Anyone know what the thieves supposed to be doing with these high powered rifles?
Since the end of active hostilities up North and to the best of my recollection, I don't think I've heard of such a firearm being used in the commission of a crime.

cavan shooter

There is an excellent document which was prepared by the home office in the UK for firearm security. It offers advice on all types of firearms including the fixing of safes etc. I used this document when considering what I needed to do to secure the Firearms I have. Available on the BASC website

This document in the absence of any guidance in this jurisdiction can be sited as best practice. I read and know of guys that have Fort Knox style security and then there are guys who have basic set ups, yet both have center fire calibers the weakest link in the chain being a Superintendent that doesn't know what he needs or requires.

I have a modern alarm which is monitored (it rings me and my neighbour or whoever if I desire) This was put in because I have an office in the house not because of firearms

Any other bits I got from the above mentioned handbook.

I asked the guard to pay me avisit and advise on house security (because of my office) and he was well impressed even after the disclosure of the firearms etc.

I had demonstrated that I had secured my firearms to a reasonable standard. And f I remember rightly you have to take reasonable steps to secure your firearm, Thats all......

sidneyreilly

Rovi wrote: »

Anyone know what the thieves supposed to be doing with these high powered rifles?
Since the end of active hostilities up North and to the best of my recollection, I don't think I've heard of such a firearm being used in the commission of a crime.

Indeed. A sawn off .243 would be an odd tool! Was there not an incident in Limerick a few months back where some geebags fired on gards with a c/f rifle? Am open to correction

P.s. did you buy anything in the end last night Rovi?

Rovi

sidneyreilly wrote: »

Indeed. A sawn off .243 would be an odd tool! Was there not an incident in Limerick a few months back where some geebags fired on gards with a c/f rifle? Am open to correction

Wouldn't surprise me, but I don't recollect hearing about that.

sidneyreilly wrote: »

P.s. did you buy anything in the end last night Rovi?

Nah. One of the lads I was with bought an Ingram M11, with which we destroyed his new Golden Pages when we got back to his house later

In case anyone's wondering we're talking about airsoft at the Toys for Big Boys show, here's a thread on it over in Airsoft/Paintball:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055179266

bunny shooter

I paid and dealt with Eircom Phonewatch €1200 and a contractor/agent did the work

fishdog

RRPC:

My monitoring company will only ring the Gardai when both the perimeter and internal systems trigger. In other words they need a door/window activation and a PIR activation.

Correct a "dual activation" is required before they are allowed to call the Gardai. This reduces false alarms, but also means valuable time is lost before the Gardai are called. Also if the intruder manages to anly activate only one device the gardai will not be called, thus reducing security. This measure was brought in because the Gardai lost so much time responding to false alarms.

RRPC:

They are extremely quick to call me when there is an activation. I have yet only once been able to phone them before they phoned me about an activation and I had to run and speed dial their number.

Yet they will always be slower than if the alarm were to ring you directly!!

When a monitored alarm activates it is programed not to call the monitoring station for assistance immediately (it must sound for 30 seconds before attempting to call out), otherwise it would be against regulations.

Alarms not connected to monitoring stations do not have to comply with monitoring station regulations. This means that once they activate they can phone for assistance immediately, meaning you the owner know about it before a monitoring station could. Furthermore you need not wait for a second activation to call the Gardai!!

Quicker, more secure and cheaper.

The money saved could be spent on a GSM module that are now reduced to €200 (price I was quoted from Borsatec, Finglas Ind. Est.). This until enables an alarm to phone out without the need fo a phone line.

meathstevie

I might sound a bit of the mark but where I'm living a monitored alarm or no alarm at all isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. Let me explain : our local garda station is part time, assume that at the time of a break in there's no presence. So the alarm activates, at least 30 seconds go by, Eircom or whoever rings the house, they get a negative or no response to their call. At this stage 2 maybe 3 minits are gone while the burglar with a powerfull anglegrinder has been working away. The Garda 10 mile down the road get the call from the monitoring center. They're not exactly the biggest station in the country either so let's assume their patrol units are temporarily tied up with other stuff and need at least another 2 to 3 minits to respond and get rolling for an optimistic 10 minit drive. So realisticly speaking about 15 to 20 minits at least have gone by. More than plenty for an experienced burglar to open a gun cabinet and get away...And as for an ordinary alarm, no on gives a damn about them anymore anyway.

Basicly what I do is the following, the bulky parts of the firarms are in the safe and a good few bits and bobs are hidden all over the house. End result is that the guy who gets in the safe makes his way down the road with a few expensive bits of firewood, scrap metal and a lovely telescope for spying on the neighbours... . That's when they come through the front door that is, I wouldn't chance the slightly territorial collie out the back.

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

Alarms not connected to monitoring stations do not have to comply with monitoring station regulations. This means that once they activate they can phone for assistance immediately, meaning you the owner know about it before a monitoring station could. Furthermore you need not wait for a second activation to call the Gardai!!

And if it's a false activation you won't know either. So you could conceivably call the Gardai out for a false alarm.

meathstevie wrote:

The Garda 10 mile down the road get the call from the monitoring center. They're not exactly the biggest station in the country either so let's assume their patrol units are temporarily tied up with other stuff and need at least another 2 to 3 minits to respond and get rolling for an optimistic 10 minit drive. So realisticly speaking about 15 to 20 minits at least have gone by. More than plenty for an experienced burglar to open a gun cabinet and get away...

That's if you have an ordinary gun cabinet

All the while your alarm is screaming and they don't know if the nearest patrol car is 20 minutes, 10 minutes or 1 minute away, or if a posse of neighbours is on the way, so I'd prefer to have the alarm rather than trust in a safe alone.

E. Fudd

rrpc wrote: »

And if it's a false activation you won't know either. So you could conceivably call the Gardai out for a false alarm.


But sure the monitoring company won't know if it's a false alarm either!

fishdog

rrpc wrote: »

And if it's a false activation you won't know either.

A properly installed alarm should not have false activations (in general). However dual activation is still an option in the program if you require it. The difference is you have a choice if you are not using a monitoring station!!

That's if you have an ordinary gun cabinet

Great idea installing a great gun cabinet, but nothing to do with the alarm system

I'd prefer to have the alarm rather than trust in a safe alone.

Very sensible. No one suggested alarms are not a good investment. They are. I am suggesting that being hooked to a monitoring station is not all it is cracked up to be.

So you could conceivably call the Gardai out for a false alarm.

Just as monitoring stations have done in the past and still do! this is why the Gardai insist on dual activation.

Rovi

E. Fudd wrote: »

But sure the monitoring company won't know if it's a false alarm either!

That's why they have to wait for a second activation before calling the Gardai, and why the Gardai won't respond to single activations called in by anyone other than the owner.

rrpc

E. Fudd wrote: »

But sure the monitoring company won't know if it's a false alarm either!

This is what happens when you quote . fishdog was saying that you didn't have to wait for a second activation to ring the Gardai. The point of a second activation is that you have a perimeter activation followed by an internal (PIR) activation. Very strong possibility of a break-in in those circumstances, and that's when the monitoring station rings the Gardai.

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

A properly installed alarm should not have false activations (in general). However dual activation is still an option in the program if you require it. The difference is you have a choice if you are not using a monitoring station!!

False activations aren't all due to faulty alarms. The majority are faulty memories (can't remember the pin ), or forgetting to close a door properly and the wind catches it, etc. etc.

Great idea installing a great gun cabinet, but nothing to do with the alarm system

I was replying to meathstevie

Very sensible. No one suggested alarms are not a good investment. They are. I am suggesting that being hooked to a monitoring station is not all it is cracked up to be.

It's not, but it's what the Gardai are looking for.

fishdog

Remember the dual activation is an option if you are not connected to a monitoring station. It is not an option if you are. A fiearms owner's alarm goes off on a single activation and they ring the Gardai and explain what they have you can be sure they will turn up pronto!!

They also have the option of having the alarm programed to ring out immediatley, not 30 seconds after activation. This way they know before a monitoring station would. Bear in mind the monitoring station still has to phone the key holders.

fishdog

It's not, but it's what the Gardai are looking for.

That depends on where you live.

False activations aren't all due to faulty alarms. The majority are faulty memories (can't remember the pin ), or forgetting to close a door properly and the wind catches it, etc. etc.

You are correct. Forgeting the code will still cause the alarm to ring out either way. Just because an alarm is not connected to a monitoring station dose not mean that is more prone to false alarms. It means you have more options!

I was replying to meathstevie

Sorry!

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

Remember the dual activation is an option if you are not connected to a monitoring station. It is not an option if you are. A fiearms owner's alarm goes off on a single activation and they ring the Gardai and explain what they have you can be sure they will turn up pronto!!

I personally wouldn't phone the Gardai on a single activation. If it was false, I'd be afraid of the 'crying wolf' syndrome.

They also have the option of having the alarm programed to ring out immediatley, not 30 seconds after activation. This way they know before a monitoring station would. Bear in mind the monitoring station still has to phone the key holders.

I agree that it incorporates a delay in the system, in practice I seem to get the call very very quickly after an activation. I've never timed it, but it seems quicker than 30 seconds.

E. Fudd

rrpc wrote: »

This is what happens when you quote . fishdog was saying that you didn't have to wait for a second activation to ring the Gardai. The point of a second activation is that you have a perimeter activation followed by an internal (PIR) activation. Very strong possibility of a break-in in those circumstances, and that's when the monitoring station rings the Gardai.

Apologies! Silly me!!:D

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

That depends on where you live.

I don't believe anyone with a pistol licence hasn't had to have a monitored alarm. There may be some that do, but I've not heard of any.

You are correct. Forgeting the code will still cause the alarm to ring out either way. Just because an alarm is not connected to a monitoring station dose not mean that is more prone to false alarms. It means you have more options!

But they all come down to "Do I phone the Gardai or not?"

fishdog

I don't believe anyone with a pistol licence hasn't had to have a monitored alarm. There may be some that do, but I've not heard of any.

Off the top of my head I could name 6. If I asked around, even more I suspect.

But they all come down to "Do I phone the Gardai or not?"

True. But if two sensos go off I will ring them. If one goes off I will "call a friend" at the very least.

cantona

Had house that had a system but out of commission.
Got alarm refurbished with extra sensors and two safes alarmed with dialer to monitoring company COST €600

Monitoring Company (per year) was €125+VAT now€145+VAT €170

Applied for F/B pistol including photos, certs of alarm etc
Passed for pistol subject to inspection of alarm
Rang Crime Prevention Officer for inspection.
Told on phone, inspection not necessary due to paperwork and photos submitted.My specs were way above what was necessary(Inner city Dublin)

Next door house broken into and next day while at work my alarm goes off. Working 5 miles away from house so when I get text from alarm system and call from monitoring company, call garda station which is 1000 yds from my house and explain next door's break-in and my alarm activation, and that I am on the way and there are firearms in house.

RESULT: Give us a call when you get there and let us know if everything is ok

As it was it was a false alarm because next door was getting new front door(old one kicked in) and the Kango Hammer set off some of my sensors.

GARDA GUIDELINES FOR ALARMS.

Must have 2 zone system before Garda roll-out
Three false alarms in three months = Suspension from Garda reponse, and to be re-admitted, must prove system upgraded and that you have been re-educated.
Details on Garda website but cannot lay hands on link at moment. Will post when I find


My present system texts 5 people about alarm(4 of which work within 1 minute of house), rings alarm monitoring company. My company gives me the choice of what action to take on alarm activation (i.e. ring guards, fire-brigade etc and on what grounds (i.e 1 alarm or 2 zone activation etc)


Much cheaper than Eircom, which I believe is something like €40 per month.

PM me for name of company and contact details

cantona

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/pub/intruder_alarm_policy.doc

Kryten

Nice of you guys to educate any potential gun theifs reading this post to the ins an outs of the Phonewatch alarm systems and the expected Garda response.

Ideally I would like to see the Gardai take alarm activations more seriously when firearms are involved.

Secrecy is the best security. Not always possible when you have rifles or shotguns and live in a built up area with plenty of people around. Thats the beauty of pistols. You could be putting a sports bag in the car, going to the gym. Nobody is the wiser.

Best to toe the line with what your crime prevention officer wants. Good or Bad! If the worst happens and you are broken in to, rest assured that you have done your bit!

cantona

My reply was not to highlight or lowlight alarm systems but to highlight the discrepency/unjustness/unlawfullness/double dealing-standards of the present system.

They require you to have an up-to date/expensive alarm system that alerts them to a break-in, but they will not re-act to the alarm unless YOU arrive first and go in and check that all is o.k.

What have you paid for, not just in the alarm but also in your tax(which pays their wages).

Last year in the States, landmark Supreme Court decision, police not paid to prevent crime only to investigate it.

Is this the way we want to go?

E. Fudd

Kryten wrote: »

Best to toe the line with what your crime prevention officer wants. Good or Bad! If the worst happens and you are broken in to, rest assured that you have done your bit!

We never said we wouldn't tow the line with what the crime prevention officer wanted.:D We were only discussing the various requirements of various crime prevention officers and the merits of these requirements.
I agree with you though that secrecy is one of the best methods for prevention and I think all of us here have the common sense to have at least a good safe and security system installed, regardless of whether or not we've been told we need it or not.

fred funk }{

Some info for you guys.

When a monitored alarm is being set up, a URN form (unique reference number) is filled out. This form asks direction to premises, hazards that could impede garda, ANY FIRE ARMS, general info about the premises. This info is displayed to the guards when they are called out to the alarm. Basically, the Guards know that there's firearms present and what hazards they are likely to meet.

'Duel activation' is known as 'alarm verification' in the alarm business, any concerns regarding delays is easily fixed, we put two detectors on each window/door, each a different zone. So when the intruder enters there is an instant verified alarm (no 30 sec delay).

I would also question the fact that the guards are responding to peoples alarms on the basis that their DIY alarm has phoned them and they then phone the police. Maybe if you know a few guards in your locality then maybe but this certainly doesn't apply to everyone.

The monitoring company will contact the keyholders on the first activation
If there is a verified alarm the gaurds are called for and the keyholder must be on the way too. The idea is to let the gaurds into the premises to check it out.

fishdog

I would also question the fact that the guards are responding to peoples alarms on the basis that their DIY alarm

Not connected to monitoring station does not autmaticaly mean DIY

All of the main alarm makes can be connected to either a monitoring station or to phone and or text people.

fishdog

there is an instant verified alarm (no 30 sec delay).

When there is a verified alarm there is no delay in the alarm sounding, but there is a delay however there is a delay of 30 second before the panel looks for a dial tone to start ringing out. This is a condition for connecting to a monitoring station.

Best to toe the line with what your crime prevention officer wants. Good or Bad! If the worst happens and you are broken in to, rest assured that you have done your bit!

I agree 100%. I have personally demonstrated an alarm system I installed to a crime prevention officer that agreed to grant a FAC to the home owner if he was satisfied with the alarm system. He said the alarm system of a higher standard than he required. It has never been connected to a monitoring station. I programed it to phone my mobile for the demonstration.
(This was before the PSA made it an offence for me to install alarm systems).

BTW a potential intruder has no way of knowing if a premises is monitored by a monitoring station, or by phoning/texting people or monitored at all.

fred funk }{

fishdog wrote: »

Not connected to monitoring station does not autmaticaly mean DIY

All of the main alarm makes can be connected to either a monitoring station or to phone and or text people.

I think you missed my point Fishdog, of course an alarm isn't automatically a DIY if it's not monitored. I'm concerned with the fact that in order for us alarm company's to install monitored alarms we have to be licenced and we have to be certified. This is to in part ensure that customers are protected and the alarms are installed properly and wont false alarm.


If everybody decided to do what you did the guards would be getting called out for a lot of false alarms.

You may be competent at installing alarms but most people are not.

fishdog

If everybody decided to do what you did the guards would be getting called out for a lot of false alarms.

What did I do?? I have not encouraged anyone to install an alarm themselves. An alarm that is not connected to a monitoring center in not automaticaly less reliable. All of the parts are made by the same people.

You may be competent at installing alarms but most people are not.

I am, but I dont do it anymore.

I'm concerned with the fact that in order for us alarm company's to install monitored alarms we have to be licenced and we have to be certified

This means paying a fee to PSA & (NSAI or similar) and passing a background check. I does not require a qualification. There is no official qualification that makes someone an "alarm engineer".

chem

fishdog wrote: »

This means paying a fee to PSA & (NSAI or similar) and passing a background check. I does not require a qualification. There is no official qualification that makes someone an "alarm engineer".

It also means that the cost of a standard house alarm has jumped from €600-800 to over €1000

Do you need a phone line to get an alarm to text your phone? and what is the cost of the equipment for a text alert alarm?

chem

just thinking. 1,100 stole from 2003. Now in the greater picture that is not massive amount. I know that if it was used in a crime its one to many stolen! But how many firearms from 05 to presant has opperation anvil removed from the streets?

Id say its alot more then 1,100 and alot of what anvil have found are semi auto assault rifles and state of the art semi auto pistols, that have been givin as "sweetners" in drug shippments. Are there any stats on stolen weapons been used in crimes?

Also i note that there seems to be an EU wide crack down on legaly firearms. I looked up several european countries names followed by GUN LAWS on the net. Most if not all searchs come back with _______ tightens gun laws.

England has even gone as far as making replica firearms illegal to sell! The met police are also calling for the EU wide ban on blank fire weapons as they say they can be converted to live fire. Same old same old but I feel like it might be a push by the EU to restrict weapons held by the average EU population.

fred funk }{

I'm posting to try give some info regarding monitored alarms. I'm not here to argue with anyone.

This means paying a fee to PSA & (NSAI or similar) and passing a background check. I does not require a qualification. There is no official qualification that makes someone an "alarm engineer".

All alarms that I install are to a certain standard, the NSAI randomly inspect my installation annually. They have to meet a certain criteria. I have been vetted by the guards, tax cleared. We have huge criteria we must abide to.

What did I do?? I have not encouraged anyone to install an alarm themselves. An alarm that is not connected to a monitoring center in not automaticaly less reliable. All of the parts are made by the same people.

Not the equipment, the people installing.

It also means that the cost of a standard house alarm has jumped from €600-800 to over €1000

Yes, unfortunately it has increased but not to that extent.

fishdog

If everybody decided to do what you did the guards would be getting called out for a lot of false alarms.

Please explain. What did I do?

All alarms that I install are to a certain standard, the NSAI randomly inspect my installation annually

I am sure your alarms are. Some are not. How many members have the NSAI thown out for breaking regulations? Last time I checked it was less than one! What qualifications do the NSAI look for other? When I asked, none!

Not the equipment, the people installing.

There are many qualified electricians who have spent 4 years training to get an internationally regognised qualification. They would have no problem installing alarm systems, but for most it is now an offence unless they pay vast sums of money to the NSAI (or similar) and the PSA. On the other hand you have people who have done a 1 day course on installing alarms that have the neck to tell electricians how they are the only ones "qualified" to install alarms. The same people often call themselves "alarm engineers".

Engineer = huge hourly rate + large call out charge

Making it illegal for people that refuse to pay the PSA to install alarm systems there is less competition and more overheads for alarm companies driving prices up and standards down. Eddie Hobbs wrote about this in the Cork Examiner.

Very few alarm installers are electricians. Having a non electrician connecting anything (including an alarm panel) to your distribution board (fuse board) makes the electrical completion certificate for your house null and void (ask RECI). I have seen some very dangerous connections made to connect alarm panels carried out by "alarm engineers" making the premises far less secure!!

Do you need a phone line to get an alarm to text your phone? and what is the cost of the equipment for a text alert alarm?

No you dont. It takes a SIM card (pay as you go is perfect IE no rent). Very easy to connect (comes with instructions). As far as I remember €200 from Borsatec, Finglas Ind Est. This will make an alarm system using only a phone line far more secure.

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

There are many qualified electricians who have spent 4 years training to get an internationally regognised qualification. They would have no problem installing alarm systems, but for most it is now an offence unless they pay vast sums of money to the NSAI (or similar) and the PSA. On the other hand you have people who have done a 1 day course on installing alarms that have the neck to tell electricians how they are the only ones "qualified" to install alarms. The same people often call themselves "alarm engineers".

I can't speak for alarms Fishdog, but I do a lot of work with network installations, and in over ten years I have yet to see a CAT5 installation by an electrician that was done correctly.

A few of the errors were relatively minor, many of them required hours of work to rectify and some were completely useless as in the entire building had to be rewired.

This was all work done by RECI or ECSSA registered electricians. As a result I have absolutely no faith in an electrician carrying out this kind of work and yet they continue to do it and maintain they are qualified to do so.

I have also seen alarm systems installed by electricians (before the change in the law) that just do not work. Not meaning faulting or partially working, but completely inoperative. My belief is that where there is no responsibility to finalise the work and test to ensure proper operation, then invariably it is not done correctly.

That's my experience. Not a generalisation or an extrapolation of something people have told me, but direct experience through my own work.

fishdog

I can't speak for alarms Fishdog, but I do a lot of work with network installations, and in over ten years I have yet to see a CAT5 installation by an electrician that was done correctly.

I would agree. It takes a different type of training than most electricians get. I have been working in the industry for over 15 years.

This was all work done by RECI or ECSSA registered electricians.

I know, you have a point. However to be a RECI or ECSSA electrician you must have completed & passed a full time 4 year FAS approved apprenticeship. You could not fail to learn something! Whereas the PSA and NSAI require no formal qualification at all. Yet the customer is charged a similar rate.

As a result I have absolutely no faith in an electrician carrying out this kind of work

I agree they should get special training for this type of work. Just as alarm installers should have real and recognised qualifications to alarm houses containing firearms!!
However I am sure you agree that only an electrician should work on mains voltage and connect an alarm panel to a distribution board. I dont think it is good enough to have people alarming houses that contain firearms having no formal qualifications. I think the PSA and NSAI should insist on it. I feel that customers are being charged as if they were employing trained, and qualified experts. Being a member of the PSA does not ensure this. You are trusting these people to protect you firearms!! Based on what??

My belief is that where there is no responsibility to finalise the work and test to ensure proper operation, then invariably it is not done correctly.

I agree. I dont think that we have a proper system in place at present. All of the information I have posted so far is easily obtained by potential intruders on the internet etc. There are many things that I will not say here that concern me about the installation methods of alarm systems that meet current standards.

That's my experience

Similar to mine.